Techbot Alpha
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Posts
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Meh, Coyote argues far better than I do.
Me, I just get urges to turn all you fleshlings into refined oil-grease *shrug* -
Quote:So you're annoyed that, lessee, Capes, Auras and VG equipment are all available in the store then? Setting a tri-part precedent for this to happen?Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Again, that's nonsense. The Roman pieces are an in-game reward for PLAYING THE GAME! Specifically the ITF. You want that reward, you do the ITF. You don't do the ITF, you don't get the reward. Whether that reward be merits, or a pretty shield, it's still an in-game reward for completing a challenge.
Most badges do nothing in combat either, so should we start selling Empath? Or Advisor? Of course, not. Those badges are earned achievements in the game. Many people chase badges just because they are there. Likewise some people chase costumes or Inventions or Incarnates. All rewards that are valuable to someone. All earned through GAME PLAY. The rewards are used in playing the game. Whether that be doing a TF, trying to win a costume contest, or just cybering with the hot catgirl (who may be a dude!)
Achievements lose all meaning if they can be bought. It's that simple. Some costume unlocks are achievements that you must earn. Allow folks to bypass that, and you have removed all purpose for having them be a reward in the first place.
Sorry, but it's the opinion of a lot of people that having to grind levels and TFs and badges for costume points is boring and not fun. Their opinion is just as valid as yours. You lose NOTHING when people like us get to pay a little extra to skip the part we find un-fun. I'm sorry that obviously give you such issues. -
Quote:Well, there does sanity. Was going to happen sooner or later.Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Hi there,
The 440 Paragon Point Price is intended and yes, the Cape you're referring to is included in the Magic Costume Bundle.
Hope that answers your question!
Zwill, seriously. Tell whoever made this decision to stop wearing their damn pants on their damn head. -
Quote:...I fail to see how 'Not being able to create a character because of level gating' is in any way similar to 'Not able to create because the pieces don't exist at all.'Originally Posted by Lothic
The problem with arguing against costume items being legitimate unlockable rewards is the faulty assumption that you can currently (by default) create ANY kind of costume you want EXCEPT those that require the unlockable items. The reason it's a faulty premise is that we actually CAN'T create any type of costume we want in this game even WITH all the unlockables unlocked.
Try creating an astronaut with a space helmet. Can't do it regardless of unlockables.
Try creating a clown with big clown shoes. Can't do it regardless of unlockables.
Try creating a ballerina with a tutu. Can't do it regardless of unlockables.
And so on...
So because we already do not have infinite choice when it comes to costume concepts the fact that a tiny handful of items are locked from use by a brand new character is not a legitimate reason to get rid of the entire unlockable rewards concept or find ways to undermine it via Paragon Market purchases.
My brand new character already can't be an astronaut, clown or ballerina at level 1.
What does it matter that it also can't be a Roman solider at level 1 either?
You asked the question "Why should players be limited in how they look by some arbitrary unlock that is level gated?" The question I would ask is "Why should players -not- have to earn at least a couple special items that are only important for a couple of specific costume concepts?" If there were like hundreds of locked costume items I might have more sympathy for your position. But because there's only a small handful of them I have a hard time agreeing with you on this. *shrugs*
Also, WHY is this such a problem? So what if some people get bits earlier? How, in any way, does that effect anyone elses game? The only reason so far I can see is 'Because I say it should be so!' which is a pretty pants reason as far as logic is concerned. The world/gameworld as we know it didn't implode when the Vanguard stuff went in store as well as staying as an in-game unlock, did it? -
Quote:My Invul/Energy level 50 says you're doing it wrong.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
So you see the beauty of that power. For Brutes and Scrappers.
Let's drop the charade that Tankers are being used as anything other than farm tools by people who can't yet build a good enough Brute. That's why Tankers should renamed 'Tractors'; there's no better name for an AT that hits like a little girl but can move at a steady pace back and forth across a farm. They're a real workhorse. Like Boxer in Animal farm. -
I don't mind it on Mission Maps. Otherwise I lose track of where I've been.
On Zone maps, however, I find it incredibly pointless.
I also object to zones like Striga. I mean, dear lord I'm pretty damn sure someone's mapped that by now. Starting out with NOTHING, not even the damn Trainer, is a joke. And it's not a very good one, either. -
Quote:Then why are IOs, which have actual in game benefits in there? Costume pieces are not 'benefits', since they give no gameplay benefit. Why should players be limited in how they look by some arbitrary unlock that is level gated? I call, and always have called, shenanigans on that.Originally Posted by Lothic
The only problem I really have with with putting in-game unlockables up for sale on the Paragon Market is the idea of being able to buy these things -without- playing the game for them. I adhere to this radical idea that somewhere along the line I think you should actually have to play the game to get some of the benefits of playing it.
As a compromise I'd be fine with the idea of being able to buy things for secondary characters as long as you've had at least one character on the account which unlocked the item via playing the game the intended way. I understand that having to unlock things MULTIPLE times can be annoying but I still think you as a player should have to unlock the items in question at least once by playing the game for it.
I wouldn't mind if all unlocks were like the Council guns (No badge, jsut beat up 100 Council goosn, any type), rather than, ooh, beating up 100 Fake Nems. Or 200 Overseers. Or Redcaps when they never naturally spawn redside except for during Valentines event.
Oh, and those frelling epaulets which are ONLY available to Blueside for doing all the FP TFs. I despise that unlock and whoever concieved it... -
Quote:The event items especially. And the time is a valid point (although I know I'll get eaten by people kvetching about how stuff 'only takes a few minutes!'Originally Posted by Obsidius
Especially if, for example, they can't run the Halloween events x number of times with x characters to get a cool costume change emote, etc. I know personally, between work, school ad a new baby, my free time is priceless right now, so I'd be willing to drop a few bucks to pick up some things I might not be able to pick up due to RL. )
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Quote:Even if the colour artist seems to have been colour blind, or loves clashes too much.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I like the NEW new CoT better than the old. I did not like the original new CoT better than the old.
Keeping the "faceless, robed menace" appearance intact was a huge part of that.
Seriously, Ruin mages? DEATH mages, wearing grey and PINK? >_> Ugh...
The new armour and robes have grown on me though. No pun intended
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Quote:Nope. The costumes are an aspect of the GAME, but they have nothing at all whatsoever to do with game PLAY. If they did then we would have Boots of +3 Stonking and Spandex of +5 Shibbleflop. Like a certain 800 lbs fantasty MMO.Originally Posted by EvilGeko
That's nonsense. For some people the cos-play aspect IS GAMEPLAY. Which you well know. Sure it has no affect on combat, but that's irrelevant. You're asking for an in-game reward to be sold for cash.
Now, that said, there are other in game reward that do affect combat that are sold for cash (uncommon IOs) so it's entirely possible that it would be fine to have these items sold. I think the question is are the Roman pieces more like uncommon IOs or more like Rare+ IOs. Is there a value in making the pieces a reward instead of something that is readily available. I don't really know the answer to that question, but it's complete and utter bunk to argue that costume pieces are not related to gameplay. For many players, costumes are the most important part of the game.
Honestly, why is it such a major gripe for those who like the in-game unlocks? No one is going to magically take away those unlocks; they will still be there. But for those of us who get utterly, utterly sick and tired of hunting 100 Fake Nems or 200 Chompy Eyeballs there is a viable niche in a store-bought option. It has no effect on gameplay, and no effect on those who are not interested.
So, can someone please explain to me a genuine, objective downside to this, other than 'I don't like it!' or 'I earned it the hard way, so should everyone!' ? -
Agreed. I have always hated the level and badge locking on certain parts that totally precludes people from making certain characters, or at least making them 'right' from level 1.
Yes, I GET that some people don't give two hoots about that, and see it as 'challenge' and 'reward'. I find nothing challenging OR rewarding about having those parts locked away when there is nothing beyond cosmetic looks in the pieces. There are no Greaves of +4 Booshing, or a Mask of +5 Doodlesquip. I hate the Incarnate Armour for the express reason that it is not only locked behind iTrials but is only available to level 50s, a stance I thought the Dev team had long grown out of with the long ago removal of Jack Emmery. Clearly not.
So, before I rant too much;
tl:dr Put them in the store for the people who want to pay for them, leaving the in-game option or those who don't want to pay. That way, everyone wins. -
Quote:That about sums it up, really.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Because you can't do that at character creation? Or sub-level 35.
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Quote:You do realise that is only ONE possible weapon, right?Originally Posted by cryonic_EU
I'd like to apologise unreservedly to anyone who was incensed by my less than positive assessment of the above mentioned epic new powerset. When I first heard talk of titan weapons I imagined all sorts of options that could fall under this heading, bloody big swords just wasnt one of them.
To be fair I guess I should have expanded the "I don't understand why the devs would bother to waste time on these." part. It's a melee weapons set, maybe I'm missing a trick here but I'm assuming it's going to act very like BS except with a bigger sword. While waste and time perhaps was too strong it doesn't feel different enough to what already exists. Why do they need a completely new set for that? Why not just offer bigger weapons as a selection within BS?
If the damage is relating to weapon size BS does a fair bit, these would need to be one shotting EBs if size matters.
The concept art included a sword much like that one, a railway crossing barrier torn out of the ground and a giant sword-shaped thing with blades rammed through it.
If it was JUST swords it'd be called 'Titan Swords' or 'Titan Blades'. -
Quote:^ This, agreed.Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Nope, I just have zero tolerance for the "I don't like it, so they shouldn't make it" twits.
I, for one, will be getting TW as soon as it comes out. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Oh that little guy?...
(It's a completely new rig by the by...courtesy of our amazing animators and art team)God freaking Damnit, Zwill, stop stealing all the Winium!Quote:Originally Posted by Zwillinger
What's overtime?
I just...this....it....
Wow. Just wow.
AWESOME!
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Quote:Bearing in mind I know only Union based characters, since that's exclusively where I playOriginally Posted by Cowman
I don't know that person.
Now if you'd said Booster Gold.....
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Quote:Oh, here we go...Originally Posted by Golden Girl
This looks totally awesome - as usual
EDIT: Minus awesome points for that offensive "Malleus" badge still being there - it's totally bad taste, and needs to be renamed to something that doesn't celebrate the historical mass-murder of women. -
Want. Want NOW.
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Give crows an' weapons NAOW!
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Quote:Agreed. And yes, Nightwalker IS evil as hellOriginally Posted by Spectral_Ent
Yes, but the thing is, from a reasonable person's viewpoint, he's a bad guy. I don't want to delve too deeply into moral relativism here: If you Nightwalker was real would you be comfortable with that? I think the answer is probably no.
He is also showing major pride there, of the "I'm always right" variety. That's a flaw. Heroes who aren't Captain Hammer analogues are going to try and be humble or at least question their self-importance. Or, heck, acknowledge it's a bad thing. Again, I'm not the RP police, this isn't EVERYONE, but it's a noticeable trend among heroes. People who don't tend to be bad heroes.
A villain doesn't, generally, have people telling him he's doing it wrong or a social standing he needs to maintain. They can be as arrogant as they want. He doesn't view himself as a villain. A number of what I would call 'more immersive' are like that.
That said, not all Heroes ARE humble. Sure, a number are. A good example of Not is @Oreso's Overreactor, about as far from humble as you can get yes, she has her reasons, but the outward outlook is anything but. I've known and RP'd with various other Hero characters who, although being on the side of good, can be incredibly up themselves and their goals.
They are still 'Heroes' though and can still get the job done. Just an observation, really.
Ewww, cawfeh. Foul stuffQuote:Mine was made with the benefit of eight hours sleep and caffine
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Quote:So what? So smegging what? Costume pieces are not like IOs, TFs or anything else, despite your previous comment. The total effect they have on gameplay or anything for that matter is ZERO. Nul.Zilch. Nada.Originally Posted by HardRider
has f... all to do with money...but u want them on the market..well then yer it does do with money...
listen my fear is if one thing thts locked goes on the market (like vanguard) everything is going to go there. without them being replaced.
i understand u want to create something at the start..been there myself..a lot ... but i work around it and look at it as a goal..twist the bio of my toon and let it evolve when the time comes tht i have the cossie pieces.
but hey im just one guy.
If you don't want to get them until level 35 and have that in your biog, that's fine! You can still get them n-game! You can still do things the free way should you choose!
But some people are sick to the back sodding teeth of waiting that long. Right now there is one option; the level gated way. Why is having more options a bad thing? Why, in fact, is your way 'Right' and having things in the market for those who want them 'wrong'? -
Quote:A: Probably true, but it's the same as Statesman; the character can be deep and nuanced but get let down so badly by a few bits of terribad writing that it takes ages for the damage to be undone.Originally Posted by Spectral_Ent
A: Superman is far more nuanced than the majority of people seem to believe he is.
B: The majority of heroes aren't crippled into worthlessness by their flaws. Heroes are generally trying to be good people. Villains are usually, at best, willing to let themselves slide.
C: Static gameworld. Heroes will always Halt Havoc...
B: I never said that. That said, 'Good' and 'Evil' are subjective.
To Nightwalker, for example, it seems like pushing Nictus evolution to the point of no longer needing a host is the right thing to do, freeing his kind from a parasitic nature without losing the powers they have gained from it. To him, the Peacebringers and people who get in his way are trying to deny them their right to live, to evolve, and are thus in the wrong.
Again, there is way too much variety to even begin listing.
C: Meh, works both ways.
Villains poison the water supply, Heroes deliver the antidote.
Heroes capture villain group leader, Villains bust him out and blow up the base.
Again, both ways.
/disclaimer, post made at 1.22 am, coherent thought may be impaired
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Yeah, Confront is the only power you'll WANT to skip Everything else is so damn awesome. I'm very sceptical of sets, even the ones I like. I'd say the Stalker variant needs a little tweaking and love to remove some clunkiness from it, but....other than that it's a flawless FATALITY!
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Quote:Oi, I never said Good is dumbOriginally Posted by Omega_Chief
It's a matter of taste really, I mean I for one do not like the story of Watchman.
Oh I fully appricate it as a wonderfully told story and the seriousness of the issues and how a graphic novel can adress them sure. I just don't like the story.
Heroes to me are flawed yes, but they overcome those flaws, they never give up, maybe they don't save everyone but they try thier damn best. And this is why they're heroes, because they can do these things without becoming mosnters, because they don't just stand around gormlessly while the evil villian does his thing. (I'll stop here before I turn this into another Tech vs Omy thread, we just disgaree).
The problem with injecting villiany intoa thread is that we as RPers here have very mixed opinions here, on the oneside you have people like me, who while we have flawed heroes we build them to overcome this and ultimatly save the day. While on the other hand we have people like Tech who belive there's no fundemental difference between heroes and villians and that good is dumb and all that.
You basically need to get a group of players together who can agree on the setting tone of that, trying to inject some villiany into an existign thread is going to run into trouble if what your image of how villians should go doesn't match up to everyone elses.
So yea, I don't think injecting it into an existign thread could ever work, you best bet would be to try and gather together enough plyers who like, or are willing to play in, a thread with a setting and tone you've outlined, or at least, this is my two pence. just that Evil has an equal chance of winning, depending on the situation and combatants.
And actually I'd fully agree with paragraph 2. REAL Heroes aren't cookie-cutter propaganda pin-ups like Super Man. They are flawed and much more beautiful because of it. -
Quote:What, more so than their all-crushing love of money and tearing up perfectly good canon?Originally Posted by Cowman
NO!
Do NOT encourage him!
Don't let insults like "codswallop" and "American" shake your faith in super heroics. That's what they want! Don't give into them. Do you know what these people lead to?
Do you?
THESE PEOPLE ARE WHY MARY MARVEL TURNED EVIL!!!
DAMN I'm good...