Techbot Alpha
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Quote:Originally Posted by Lothic
...WANT. Want freaking NOW.
Hey, Zwill? THIS, right here, needs making. Asap. That would be good 'going forward'... -
Quote:It's appreciated Zwill, but 'Moving forward' has been said before. The Gunslinger set was MEANT to be 'moving forward'...and it didn't.Originally Posted by Zwillinger
We've been closely following your feedback regarding this topic, both here and on the Beta forums. Unfortunately Cheryl, the artist who worked primarily on the Gunslinger Character Modelling, has been extremely pressed for time creating new costume sets and as such hasn't been able to post directly on the beta feedback thread. That being said, the feedback and concerns expressed have been communicated to the art and production team.
To address a few points
We've been trying to add unique and different costume pieces for female options for the sake of overall variety, however I understand some of the concerns being expressed here, as does the rest of the Art and Production team. Moving forward, where possible, we will be making more gender neutral/male pieces created for females so as to more accurately reflect the Communities requests. Because each costume piece has to be individually created (we can't CTRL+C, CTRL+V the pieces from male to female unfortunately
), this does mean that we will be offering less overall unique options, however we feel it's important to address this concern.
If anyone took offense to our artistic choices, I apologize. It's not our intent to offend anyone.
Thanks
-Z
What would be better received is making a Female Gunslinger set as well. Because that is what was and IS still wanted and missing.
If this comes down to an issue of 'but times already been spent' then maybe, just maybe, you should ASK the playerbase before finalising stuff?
No one (that I know) is 'offended' per se. Dissapointed? Yes. Thats not a costume I could use on a female cowgirl, without making them look like half the images on Google (Don't go there...please, for your sakes). Frustrated? Yes; this has been happening for some time now, re: the first post.
So, for once, can we get some time spent on going back and giving players what they actually want from a set, rather than what 'someone thought' they would want? It hasn't happened for many of the packs it should have (fixes for Animal pack, more diversity there, extra stuff from Magic and Steampunk etc) but, well, I can hope, right? -
Quote:Incorrect, actually. 'Dressing sexy' is not, in and of itself, a problem. Hell, I have a few characters who dress specifically in that manner.Originally Posted by Daimyo_Shi
Please note that Dressing Sexy doesn't make women sluts automatically I I think very much that is the tone most of the Anti-sexy posters are having here. Not to detract from their over all point that is valid but let us not heap on other stereo types while fining against one.
And I can pull that off. And it's fine. But I'm damn well out of luck if I want a female gunslinger or tough-cowgirl, because I ain't getting any of those parts with this pack. And if I want to make a magic user that ISN'T a witch in a corset? Pfft, outta luck there too.
Does that make it clearer? -
Quote:I haven't attacked any Developers personally. I like the Dev team and respect the amount of love and work they have put into the game.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
No more so than most of what else has been written here. She wasn't the one posting in all caps after all, or equating the liberation of women gamers with the corset-jacket ratio.
I'm sorry, but extremely direct attacks being made on specific developers make me very uncomfortable. I don't think it's productive and I won't support it.
However, I think collectively they are WRONG when it comes to this subject. That goes for any string-pullers in the background. -
Quote:No, because this is an issue many feel exists, and goes beyond just this one set.Originally Posted by Grae Knight
So if they changed the name of the pack to Old West or something similar this whole thread could be dropped? I know I would have issue if they did not have the bar maid outfit in the set.
I bought the set but found the male Gunslinger pieces lacking.
I also found parts of the male pieces to be...well...let's just say I don't know thought someone wearing cow skulls on their shoulders was cool, but what it DOES make you look like is a bit of a wazzock
In fact, the only really redeeming piece, the one I still might buy (separately) is the cigarette option for male and female. Only took them however long to finally get around to that... -
Quote:What I got from your posts was indeed hyperbole. Take that as you will.Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Hi Chyll...Hyperbole? I just said what I got out of reading this thread. The players want to dress their female toons in the same outfits that they dress their men toons. From what I understand, we want lots and lots of heavy baron jackets and coats...which are very unshapely.
Sigh. I am sorry if I misunderstood, but I don't see sluttyness anywhere on the female gunslinger outfit my toon is presently wearing. If I knew how, I would post a screenshot....I agree it is not a gunslingin' outfit, but it does not deserve all this hatred.
Hate the artists for not giving us man clothing for our females..don't hate the outfit.
Lisa.
And, yes, while the pieces themselves are not bad per se (decent texture quality and make and all that) it's the complete lack of any female GUNSLINGER parts in a GUNSLINGER pack that is the inate problem here.
Examples from previous packs;
Magic: Sorceresses and robes and such? Nope, 'Sexy Witch pack'
Steampunk: More hats, gloves and steampunky stuff like goggles and things? Nope, 'More Corsets!' pack
Barbarian: Rag/fur/hide armour, draped chainmail and animal skull stuff? Armour with bits of metal hammered on? Nope, 'Even MOAR corsets and thigh high boots!' pack
Do you see my (and other peoples) problem here? We are getting no choice, no options. It's the 'sexified' stuff, or nothing. Nada. Zilch.
We don't want 'women in mens kit' (although stuff like the Baron and Gunslinger jacket would be nice) ; we want female appropriate parts that aren't 'yet another damn corset' that fit the theme.
I don't think that's unreasonable. -
Quote:I approve of this postOriginally Posted by Golden Girl
Yes - he's still eating moon rocks too
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Quote:Then it has absolutely NO right being in a Pack called 'Gunslinger' does it?Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Lisa stands next to Golden Girl.
I bought it, and I like it.
It may not be Gunfightery, but it makes a nice Christmas outfit.
Lisa.
This pretty much proves my point.
And yes, as far as I know, Jay still works here. And no, he's still not sexy. I've never met him so I'll err on the side of him probably being a nice guy in person, and hold nothing against him. But for crying out loud 'Sexy Jay' is just so old and lame... -
Quote:Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Lisa strides into this thread, and looks about warily.
I actually bought this pack, I played around with it, and I made a very cute curly haired blonde Fire/Fire Brute who looks like she is dressed for Christmas.
She does not look trashy, nor does she look like a prostitute.
I do think we should be able to choose our own two colors on the striped top, instead of having one chosen for us.
Sexy Jay, if you are reading this, I fear that your audience wants to dress their female toons like men...the less shapely the better.
Once we have all the bulky Baron Jackets we can handle, then and only then should you make us some pretty lady things.
Pancake, I don't want my female toons to look like hulking men......
Oh wells....I go on record to say that except for the pre-tinting of one stripe, I am enjoying this pack and think it was points well spent..except for that annoying pre-tinted stripe...
Lisa.Ok, can we drop the overkill on hyperbole here?Quote:Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Hah...see Sexy Jay, this is what your audience wants.....I sure don't, but I am outnumbered.
Lisa.
No one I've seen is asking for 'Only ever having butch women outfits! From now on!'
What we are sick of is ONLY having prissy stuff. It's what you said above, only in reverse. There are no or very few options for tougher female characters, no actual gunslingers.
The issue is not that those parts exist, but that there are NO other options when there should have been. -
Quote:It's not as much whats in the packs that is the problem as the total lack of other stuff, more often the stuff that was asked for A LOT.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
The pack isn't ideal, but come on people--put a pair of stockings under those skirts or make the character a lizardperson or zombie and the shock value completely disappears. If you choose to traipse around with your butt hanging out because you ONLY use the default costume and always build hot girls then part of that is on you. I tend to like the revealing parts because they stack better with underlying garments and because on a robot/zombie/lion/ape/whatever they allow far more combinations of parts than a hardcoded full body covering does.
The only top that is truly revealing is the witch one, mainly because you can't put anything on under it. I would like to see jackets for ladies too, but mainly open ones, for the specific purpose of layering.
i.e.. more jackets for women, chaps and belts/holsters, stuff like that. Instead we got the Saloon outfit which, while it can be used to make stuff look good, is NOT a Gunslinger outfit. The male/huge models DID get a Gunslinger outfit, even if bits of that are quite silly too, and pre-tinted (bad art team! BAD!)
The women did NOT. THAT is the problem. -
Quote:"Oh, move it your royal ponceyness! If you want a job doing..."Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Princesses don't fight evil. Princesses hang around in towers waiting to be rescued. If I don't get armor for females I won't be buying the medieval pack. And by "armor" I mean "proper armor," not like in that big fantasy MMO which shall remain nameless.
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Quote:Eh, on a personal note, I'd rather see the female sliders tweaked and adjusted to allow more diversity than a 'Huge' variant. I agree with the 'always skinny' thing, but wouldn't want to take it further than natural-ish.Originally Posted by Firemoth
I have a way we can solve the unbalanced amount of clothes men get versus women. Make a huge version for females.
I'd actually be interested in seeing a huge form for them, because no matter how big you try to make them on the current sliders, they still look either skinny/lithe, or no curves (just really really tall)
On a technical note, I can see why they've never pursued that option. It would require re-coding an insane amount of things, recoding all the existing costume parts for female Huge and all the technical stuff like that. Simply making two female options for every male/huge option, while still time consuming, would be less consuming than that would be. -
Quote:No, but they could release more options that covered the complaints.Originally Posted by BrandX
They likely listened. In fact, I do believe they read the posts.
Now, really, let me ask, do you think they're going to let all that time and resources go to waste and not release it?
How are more options a bad thing? -
Quote:Women tend to dress more diversely in real life.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But that would be ignoring traditional feminine clothing options, and limiting girls to refitted versions of male outfits, which would be totally sexist - that's why the devs are in a difficult position with these costume packs - whatever choice they make will still get them called out on a lack of equality, even though there's a lack of equality in clothing choices for women and men in the real world, and no one really complains about it.
Ergo, they should get more diverse options in game. Men get the Huge model while Women don't, so that seems fair to me.
...
Also...you're making sense...this is scary. Who are you and what have you done with Golden Girl? >_> -
Quote:View unacceptable behaviour, make forthright use of the Inform Authority of Issue ButtonOriginally Posted by BrandX
It could find itself more prevalent with female MM pets. Something to consider, as it's what the devs have to consider.
/Meme
The Report button is already in game. It's already working just fine. That issue is already covered on all bases. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's the major problem - in real life, women wear anything, but men limit themselves to a much smaller choice of clothing types, which means that there aren't reall any clothes that are almost exclusively male, but there are plenty that are almost exclusively female, and that influences how people make their costumes in the game, and how the devs make the costume pieces.
For example, if there are some cool pants for the guys, then plenty of people will ask for them to be available for the girls too - but if there's a new skirt for females, hardly anyone will ask for it to be made available for males too - or if there's a shirt for guys, the girls will want it too, but if there's a corset, hardly any guys will want it - which means that costume part "equality" actually requires women to get twice as many parts as men, so something like the Gunslinger pack would need one male gunslinger outfit, one female gunslinger outfit, and the saloon girl outfit - or if there's a medieval pack, they'd need to make one knight outfit for men, one knight outfit for women, oplus a damsel/princess outfit for the women.
The lack of female versions of some of the male costume parts are probably a misguided attempt at being fair, and giving both genders an even amount of parts with each pack.Agreed and agreed.Quote:Originally Posted by BrandX
Which is why I've said, worry less about "Males get less pieces than Females" which I think the devs should do.
Yes, I realize there are some who want the dresses for males, but it's just not likely worth the dev's time and resources to do such pieces.
I have NO problem with Females getting more parts than Male/Hu-
Wait. TECHNICALLY, men already DO get twice as many parts as women.
Because Huge is male too. There are 2 male models for every female model.
So Females SHOULD get twice as many parts to make up that discrepancy! Ha. -
Quote:This is trueOriginally Posted by BrandX
Actually, no I don't think it's a trend, and you also manipulated the Witch Booster to get what you want on it.
Take those witch top pieces and use the TIGHT option. That way you don't show all that skin you're saying they're doing.
Barbarian wasn't much different from the males, in that they had nothing but show skin pieces as well.
Martial Arts, IDF, Vanguard, Science, Clockwork, Cyborg, Mutant, ect...ect.
HOWEVER;
There was a lot of annoyance at the lack of a jacket option for females when the Magic pack came out, along with the only hat options being the witchy ones.
The options for females were;
-Witch hats
-Tights or revealing or uber-revealing tights
-Thigh highs with stupidly pointy heels
-Shoulder length gloves with an option for a daft add on
They did get the Bolero AND High collar cape, which was at least a good choice. But the over-all female magic parts were something more akin to what you'd find in a modern day Halloween costume. Sure we had robes written off at that point, but why pointy heels? Why tights? Why 'sexy' stuff, instead of more practical or arcane parts?
For ALL the options in the OP, bar the male Gunslinger where I removed a few parts, I simply picked the default from the drop down menu. That's the DEFAULT in the Devs eyes, not mine.
The trend continued with the likes of the Barbarian pack, with more fluffy edged corsets then actual 'barbarian' like pieces, for example armour made out of furs or hide, with scrappy metal bolt on options, no barbaric/celtic tattoos or the like. Heck, they even totally missed out the female gloves (or they've since vanished, I couldn't find any in the CC this morning) And yes, the Barbarian female I had to pick, because there was no drop down option. And that was being generous, without simply putting it in the bikini and thong options...
If that's true, then that will simply prove my point.Quote:But I will agree on one thing, the female outfit doesn't feel Gunslinger. This I agree with.
Still, just retreading the Feedback thread and what makes anyone think this will get more dev attention?
I bet it gets the same dev attention. -
Quote:And, now as always, chat-logs and 'Report' are available to every player. There IS no problem here that cannot be solved with the tools already available. Anything else is just some idiot screaming 'Think of the children!!'Originally Posted by Chyll
To be really fair, how they look isn't the problem, as far as I can tell.
What players will 'do' (or pretend to do) with sexy MMs is more likely the issue. -
Quote:This sums it up nicely. I still don't buy the 'oh, but if we give females both options then male/huge will get less!', not when all the cool stuff goes to those two anyway, and the 'no, males can't use any of the female pieces'. Personally not my thing but, hey, people have requested it a lot in the past. *shrug*Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend
I have no issue with some outfits being sexy or attractive. Supers of both genders are flamboyant (again: circus outfits). My issue is with the inexplicable decisions to focus on making more and more sexy outfits for the girls at the cost of alternatives and the double standard of "no female minions" vs. "here's an outfit where you'll need to break the laws of physics to keep it on." I mean, we have how many corsets and bits of lacy underwear now? -
Quote:Yes, actually, because the Feedback threads seem to get nothing but ignored these days. There is no sign of Dev viewing or even interest once they've been thrown up, let alone any actual commenting.Originally Posted by BrandX
Okay really? Really? Had to start a whole thread about this when it was going on in the Feedback Thread?
And personally, I think the trend arguement fails on the Steampunk, unless you're just going "I want the jackets!"
If they HAVE looked at them, well, NONE of it seems to have made it in game, another pretty solid sign of being ignored I would think.
Sure, Steampunk women do have a slight tendency to look a little more burlesque, perhaps. But no long jackets at all and no waistcoats? In Steampunk? Not a great understanding of the genre there. Not every woman in Steampunk wears a corset.
It's an annoying general trend that's becoming more and more prevalent, and the Devs still haven't seemed to have cottoned on that a lot of people are not best pleased with that. -
Quote:Modus Operandi these days, it seems...Originally Posted by Dragon_King
If he is then he must not be in charge anymore. I remember in the past he would snarkingly defend a lot of decisions for certain pieces of costume sets he had designed.
It doesn't make sense to beta test something for a (relatively) long period of time, get tons of feedback for fix's and then shove it out the door missing a wheel. -
Quote:True, but one of them's a Gynoid. And we still get dear ol' Domi to make it pretty much a three against one.Originally Posted by Xzero45
In the designer's defense, we also got Nightstar and Battle Maiden, who are both pretty tough customers that are less revealing in their outfits.
Again, it's not totally all the time, as shown by some of the armour sets. But all the sets that are more out of the ordinary, with stuff that players have been asking for for ages? Nope, females get 'sexy' wear for the umpteenth time. No questions. -
Jay's still there, as far as we know.
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Quote:...*points at his OP*Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
I don't recall the gunslinger outfit showing much skin o_o;. Could I get a picture to show this?
That is the default 'Gunslinger' costume for females when selected from the drop down menu. -
Quote:Z...I salute you. I also hereby grant you the Alpha-grade Rage award for excellence in FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-!Originally Posted by Zortel
-straightjacket-
But yes, that sums it up pretty nicely, I think.
