Tater Todd
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:You should...Originally Posted by Beltor
When i first started playing around the end of 2008, I tried running stalkers. After 2 failed tries, I hated them. I tried once more months later and started having the same results. I got angry and started to play dirty with hit and run tactics. That's when it started getting fun. It seems you don't run a stalker like a scrapper
. Since then i've perfected my stalker technique and stalker has went from most hated to one of my favorites. Because of that, I don't say 'never again' to anything.
1. Try Stalkers now on BETA they are...wow lol.
2. Try Ice Armor especially once you Get Icy Bastion makes you play like a Scrapper. Ice armor is now a nice mix of defense, -recharge/-dmg debuffing and massive Regen. -
Quote:It wasn't to bad before, but now days compared to sets like Staff Fighting and Titan Weapons...yeah it needs some major buffs. The same thing goes for Ice Armor but I think the change in the Stalker version fixes Ice Armor's problems.Originally Posted by Ice_Ember
Ice melee is still terrible. Really. Frozen Aura is now great, dont get me wrong, but the set is still terrible.
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We must do this again this year. I'm game!
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Quote:Woot, well I will keep me eyez out arrr! Nothing is more awesome than a bunch of us COH folks getting together!Originally Posted by Torroes_Prime
Well the last one was... what? 2 1/2 years ago? 3 years? I know it was in 2009 but don't recall when in the year it was.
Though there did seem to be some interest in doing some sort of CoH themed get together involving the Avengers movie. So... who knows. Maybe we'll do 2 this year. -
Quote:Lmao! Nah, we don't see each other often so I can't just cancel at the last minute. How often do you guys do this? I would mind driving p there or carpooling up there Baltimore is only like 2 to 3 hours from where I live.Originally Posted by Torroes_Prime
and I suppose coming out to D&Bs for some drinks, and games with a bunch of gamers wouldn't count huh?
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Quote:I didn't find out about this until yesterday *sigh*. The SO wants to do something next weekend sorry guysOriginally Posted by Tater Todd
I'll try to attend but I can't make any promises.
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I'll try to attend but I can't make any promises.
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Quote:Haha, I know the devs might rain fiery justice down upon me but I can't help but to want an Ice/Ice brute even more when I play my Elec/Ice Stalker! I Love the stalker version of the set more than the tank version! Icy Bastion just seems more practical.Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Well, Mr. Powers, if you are gonna necro something, it *is* better to keep it on ... Ice?
Lewis
/Ice/ice on brutes please. I need SS/ice and ice/sr brutes, naow!
Ha! Indeed it is good sir! For now I will enjoy my Elec/Ice Stalker!Quote:Originally Posted by Saltyhero13
Of course you did! It is ice after all. -
Indeed, Doms still will satisfy you need for the SMASHITY-SMASH Smash but! The AT gives you a taste of the Controller/Blapper Side of things...making you curious about non Melee or Pseudo-Melee sets.
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Whoops. Sorry about that. I slipped a little.
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I like my solution for Shiver the most :P
Quote:Originally Posted by Tater Todd
5. Shiver- Make it a Neurotoxic Breath Clone but with a guaranteed Special or a 75-90% chance Special instead of Neurotoxic's 25% (Mag 2) Chance to hold. The special should be "Target Held for 2 seconds" BUT you can slot holds in it so you have the potential to max it out for 4 or 5 seconds or greater. This will make Shiver Perfect for Alphas Stoppers and it should give you enough time to let AA, Glacier or Ice Slick do its job. If someone would complain that this is OP then you could balance the power out by reducing the values of the slow and -Recharge in the power. -
Earth Control Plays so much differently than Ice control. Heck Earthquake alone can do three things (Apply -Res, KD, -To Hit) compared to Ice Slick's only trick KD.
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Quote:If only it was that simple. Isn't it somewhat rare for the devs to completely change a power? I was shocked when they changed Poisons' Poison Trap.Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Ahem. Then you'd have Earth Control.
See how easy that was? -
Quote:*Leans forward out of the shadows with fingers clasped*Originally Posted by Oathbound
They could replace Frag Grenade with an AoE heal to supplement his Single Target... <.< >.>
Excellent, Someone who agrees with me!
Quote:Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Mercernaries:
Medic- Remove Frag Grenade (Moderate Damage, Knockback) and Stimulant (Resist Effects) and replace it with a weaker version of Temporal Mending. Replace Stimulant with a power that does the same thing but is a PbAOE and it grants only half of the normal -10.38 mag.
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EDIT:Nevermind, I think everyone knows that this set needs a little help to bring it up to snuff. The Jack Buff is one step in the right direction. He's amazing now.
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Quote:I don't have the time right now to read your earlier posts BUT I definitely will when I get the chance bud. Indeed you are correct. I was referring to the AOE sleep and Shiver...I'm not sure what other powers you thought I was talking about since the set has only 9 powers and I already ruled out AA, Ice Slick and Glacier *shrug*.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I assume you are talking about the AoE sleep and another power, but I'm not sure which. Shiver? Please read my comments earlier in the thread about these powers.
Let me clarify. Saying the set isn't totally worthless isn't the same as saying it couldn't be better than it is. If I could post my full thoughts on the set in every individual post I would, but you'll have to read back on the thread to see what else I had to say about the set, which isn't entirely glowing. Still, the set is the one I play the most. And Ice Control is not simply Earth Control with Stalagmites removed.
Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by 'examining the set by itself.' No set is ever by itself. The power of the set is defined entirely by its relationship to the game world. You hint at this with your statement that Ice Control is better on Controllers than Dominators (a statement I would debate if I had the energy. We'll leave at, any AT with the potential for perma mezz protection and a Mag 6 hold is far from my definition of weak).
For frame of reference, I posted a video of my Ice/Fire incarnate character running around Rikti War Zone. While he's not drop dead amazing, he isn't bad either. I'm sure someone will say that IOs and incarnate powers fix "anything" and it's therefor irrelevant, but that's a subject for another debate, and one in which I would highly disagree (again, see Devices and Energy Melee for examples of sets in much worse shape).
(Video will be live once it finishes uploading).
http://youtu.be/rHHiBCFPDOU
Ok, well you answered a few of my questions...your earlier post had a slight flavor of "the set is fine the way it is" so I admit I wanted to what your response would be to my post. I agree Ice Control is not worthless but it does need some help and I agree with you full about the Earth Control comparison...both sets play sooo differently.
I'm talking about a player who uses Ice Control by it's self without help from a strong controller secondary or a strong (soft control) Dominator Secondary. For example your Ice/Fire. Fire brings raw damage to the table and nothing else. I feel that a lot of players base a Control set on a Controller...controllers have access to heals, buffs, debuffs you name it and I think this muddies the water of thought a bit on how functional a set can be. This is not the case with you, your dead on and you know Exactly where I'm coming from so I must apologize. I had the same problem in the Dark Control thread...many of my fellow posters didn't think about how the values and controller secondaries changes one's experience with dark control.Quote:Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by 'examining the set by itself.' No set is ever by itself. The power of the set is defined entirely by its relationship to the game world. You hint at this with your statement that Ice Control is better on Controllers than Dominators (a statement I would debate if I had the energy. We'll leave at, any AT with the potential for perma mezz protection and a Mag 6 hold is far from my definition of weak).
I wish I could tell you my issues exactly but my Ice/Psi is IO'd out and lvl 53. From what I remember I did have issues with mobs that were immune/resistant to Ice Slick like some council, arachnos and Carnies. A lot of my frustration had something to do with pretty much solo'ing my toon to lvl 50 (He was made well before GR). Soloing certain groups really shined some light on the sets weakness. He also didn't have a hard hitting secondary to back up my controls so I would end up faceplanting pretty fast if I tried to take out a decently large group. I need to reroll again to be honest but I know that there's plenty of poster out there who can go into further detail about their experiences with the set.Quote:Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
EDIT: If some people who feel the set is very poor could post some videos of trying to use the set and failing significantly I'd be interested in seeing them. I have some pretty good ideas about where Ice's holes are, but the level of frustration expressed by some people doesn't match my experience, especially post-mezz protection. Earlier in the thread I identified getting mezzed as Ice's chief worry based on my experiences around levels 30-40. I've certainly tasted the floor at the hands of Ice Control but whether that happens more often with Ice than the other sets is something I think could be highly debated. I've played every set but Gravity to 40 or higher several times, and while Ice has its issues I've never found it as limiting as some posts suggest. That may be because I always team, but I always team with Earth and Electric too due to their initial low damage (on Controllers) and while there are differences, I still do not feel Ice is so far behind as to be worthless.
I think one great ways to see how Ice Control performs is to try to defeat a mob of council that are -1/+4 OR -1/+6 with a level 20-40 toon by just using Ice Slick and AA and your Dominator Secondary (preferably one without soft control but it's not necessary). With no procs or IO's or Sleet or whatever. I bet to most people this would be pretty challenging to do solo... now take that experience and apply it to serious mobs like Malta, Nemesis and KOA. I think without out reliable back-up soft control and having Ice slick being perma the control of the set can fall apart VERY quickly. -
Quote:Eh, it still doesn't address the issue about the set having two practically useless powers. AA takes a while before it really starts working it's magic and by then you've been shut down by a LT or two. Ice Slick isn't always a guarantee especially with warwolves and the bunch of other mobs that have a high resistance to kd/kb.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
[EDIT: edits to tone and clarity]
I have characters with both sets, and respectfully disagree with this comparison. IMO some positive points not touched on are Glacier, the fact that Ice Slick's -RunSpeed keeps enemies in the area better than Earthquake considering animation time (EQ + Quicksand takes much longer to cast), and how Arctic Air fits in overall. My Ice characters do not even have Shiver, so the idea of Earth with Shiver being the same as Ice Control is not representative of how I personally use the set.
Also, Salt Crystals < Glacier.
One specific place Ice is fairly competitive, for example, is cast time relative to control effort. On a team with decent buffs and/or with IOs, where alpha strikes matter less, it is entirely possible to pour almost all of your time into damage powers and let the control happen on its own. Earth has to set up Volcanic Gasses + Quicksand to match around what AA does just by the character showing up, then continually recast these powers throughout the fight (with VG not being perma without IOs). AA is one of the only control powers that is almost always available, irrespective of recharge. Getting hit with massive -Recharge or -ToHit debuffs does nothing to curb AAs effectiveness. There is also never a moment where the player has to refrain from using the power toward the end of a fight or risk not having it recharged for the next group, which is, IMO, a significant and often overlooked advantage.
You can see elsewhere in the thread where I give my criticisms of Ice, but IMO Ice is not a Devices or Energy Melee.
What's your back up for Ice slick? Glacier? To long of a timer on that one and you already used it last mob. AA...great power to have but it doesn't really shine until you slot it with Procs and it takes a while for it to truly kick in AND you are putting yourself in melee which can be deadly.
Now, from here on if you are a controller you're fine, your secondary can keep you alive somewhat but if you're a Dominator you are in trouble unless you have a nice secondary that complements the lack of control of your primary...certain assault sets come to mind like Earth Assault's Tremor, Psionic Assault's Drain Psyche/PSW Ect.
I don't think you guys are looking at this set by it's self OR fully comparing it with other control sets. -
Wow Trickshooter...this is great...you've been kicking butt and taking names lately.
Edit: I like the "updated" changes to AR for the Soldiers but I do think we need to get rid of Frag Grenade. -
Quote:To me that's still not enough mitigation due to the enemies still being able to fire off their non activated attacks...still I agree with you when it comes to debuff values for controllers and doms.Originally Posted by ketch
It does have better debuff values on a Controller, 81.25% -recharge v. 65% -recharge in Shiver for example, making it much easier to floor the recharge on higher conning enemies. Personally, I think debuffs that mitigate damage (-recharge and -tohit) from a Dom's primary should share the same value as a controllers.
I guess the devs were thinking that a Dominator would dish out more damage/control than controller...but they were dead wrong. So, to compensate they added some buffs: The change of domination (or the need to be permadom), The reduction of the degradation of the Domination bar, The Upscale in damage...still it didn't work so they added the debuffs to the Dom's side of the APP power picks and that gave controllers some competition.
Even after all that certain Dominator Control sets fall flat on their face when the values are reduced...Dark Control is one of the sets that make this issue stand out like a sore thumb. Also Corruptors have a similar issue to some degree.
I know that you already know this Ketch, I just like to hear myself talk er type lol. -
Quote:I don't think that Ice Control is any better on a controller either...not much in the set benefits from containment and really the only safe control power in the set is Ice Slick : /Originally Posted by Jibikao
Ice Control is ok. It doesn't really shine on dominator because your Domination doesn't affect Ice Slick. I've leveled one Ice/Psi to 42 and one Ice/Fiery to 40. The ice/psi combo was made before the nerf on Psionic Shockwave. I was looking for a primary that requires me to go melee and Ice's AA + Shockwave was AWESOME. After the Psi nerf, I haven't played that toon in years.... T_T I didn't even bother respecing him.
Ice Control works pretty well on a large team because Ice Slick stops mobs from running away and all the slow debuffs in AA. I mostly just run in with AA on and try to attack/hold. I do need somebody to take alpha for me though because Ice Slick can still get you killed if you don't drop it out of sight.
The pbaoe hold with domination is visually pleasing when it happens. Big ice cube with great sound effect.
I don't use Shiver but it can be useful. And I almost never use aoe immb on dominator. Sue me!!! -
I also want to go either Plant/Dark or Dark/Dark...I finally deleted Emp...he's been sitting there collecting dust for over 3 years. I need something a bit more active and /Dark is it...mind you it is superior in any way to Empathy I just need a Support set that is more active like /Time or /Dark.
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I have a lot on my list so I'm going to break it up in smaller posts.
Ice Control:
1. Frostbite- Remove the -kb on the power.
2. Arctic Air- Remove the delay.
3. Shiver- Make it a Neurotoxic Breath Clone but with a guaranteed Special or a 75-90% chance Special. The special should be "Target Held for 2 seconds" BUT you can slot holds in it so you have the potential to max it out for 4 or 5 seconds or greater. This will make Shiver Perfect for Alphas Stoppers and it should give you enough time to let AA, Glacier or Ice Slick do its job. If someone would complain that this is OP then you could balance the power out by reducing the values of the slow and -Recharge in the power.
4. Ice Slick- As someone else mentioned make this power unresistible to bosses or lower. heck add some -Res to it as well.
5. Flash Freeze- Take out the damage and make it a Static Field Clone.
Mercernaries:
Medic- Remove their AOE and Stimulant and replace it with a weaker version of Temporal Mending. Replace Stimulant with a power that does the same thing but is a PBAOE and it grants only half of the normal -10.38 mag.
Spec Ops- Like others have said give them the bonus the NPC's get when they are stealthed. Reduce the timer on their control attacks by 1/4-1/2 of what they are currently.
Commando- should get the same treatment as Spec Ops if applicable.
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Quote:So much win right here...It made me laugh out loud for reallzzzzzah.Originally Posted by Warkupo
Aside from melee, which I undoubtedly have the most of, I find I also like Controllers, or more recently, Dominators. The biggest 'draw' for me about melee is that I can ignore mez effects for the most part and just punch people in the face. Dominators have the ability, if played intelligently, to shut down enemies and then eviscerate them to bits, in melee even, so it tends to work out pretty well.
Blasters are also fun for the complete opposite reason: they kill things before it's a problem.
I'm a bit less attracted to corruptors, but I have those as well, and they tend to play like more defensive blasters. Everything else is probably too much of a support role for me to get too seriously into it.
Edit: BONUS ALTERNATE REPLY:
The cure for melee is MORE MELEE. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, GET IN THERE AND PUNCH SOMETHING IN THE FACE, SOLDIER! ARRARRRRARRARARARGH! -
Clears throat and rolls out list:
I plan to make...
1. Dark/Storm- Hello 5 (or 6) pets/pseudo-pets out at once.
2. Dark/Poison- Super -To Hit nice -Res numbers.
3. Dark/Time- Heh
4. Dark/Kin- This will replace my main grav/kin
5. Dark/Rad- Maybe I have never been able to play /Rad past lvl 20
6. Dark/TA- Maybe -
Quote:Oooh like Irradiate but with a different animation...I like that.Originally Posted by Shadow Wail
I am just wracking my head on the devs idea to make VG a PBAoE instead of a targeted power!
I dont understand the goal of things like these and its perked me to never get an explanation as to why taking a power that I will never use.
I can imagine going into a mob with VG and getting ready to use Fissure or w/e else I can imagine but my imagination is weak at the moment and would rather it be an anchor power instead of a PBAoE