Tater Todd
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Posts
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Ugh finally my Stalkers are mentioned as being overpowered! THAT'S RIGHT MY STEALTHY BROTHERS! THE TIME HAS FINALLY COME! RISE OUT OF THE SHADOWS AND KILL WITH YOUR SILENT STABBITY STAB STABBYNESS!
*Ahem* sorry. -
Quote:Brutes got a buff a few years back because they ended up being the Tanks/Scrappers for Redside (lol poor stalkers back then). Are you saying that now since they are available on blueside they should be nerfed back down again? Shouldn't we just improve Tankers and not dial brutes back to what they were roughly 4+ years ago?Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Brutes have the same survivability caps as Tankers. They are only shy 10% max HP of a Tanker at the caps.
Brutes have much higher damage caps than Tankers. Tankers aren't shy 10% of Brute damage at the cap, for AoE or ST.
If it's OK for Brutes to have potential for high survivability and high damage, it' would be OK for Tankers.
If it's NOT OK for Brutes, it shouldn't be allowed.
Allowing it for one AT and not the other, as the situation is now, is not in anyway fair. It's a blatant double standard.
You say Brutes are fine as they are.
So then you can not object to having the Tanker damage cap increased to bring them in line with Brutes. Because it's either that or gut Brute survivability.
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Quote:Fire has more control? How so? Or are you talking about the fact that it's control is killing things before they can to much to you? Or are you referring to hot Feet? Bonfire? I'm curious because I've never been of Fire Control...Fire anything no matter what game is not my thing. I'm a water, wind dude through and through.Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Fire has much better control than you give it credit for. And mind is an anomally that needs to be ranked differently for controllers and doms. For Doms its the #3 dmg set, for trollers its #9, mind would also be at the bottom of the barrel for control for Trollers, but easily near the top for doms (not higher than plant). Depending on what you're fighting, since confusion is a very variable damage contribution, Fire can go on par if not outdps plant for controllers, but not doms. PermaPA is highly over-rated as well.
I still think that Fire out damages Plant on Controllers but everyone else says otherwise. I would like to see some numbers so I can ease my mind. Fire has Bonfire, Cages, Hotfeet that works with containment, Fire Imps...maybe I'm missing something? A Fire/Kin and Fire/Rad still kills slightly faster than a Plant/Kin or Plant/Rad but I digress.
Why would a mind Dom deal more damage than a Mind Controller? Shouldn't it be the other way around due to containment? Hrmm or maybe it's the fact that you waste time trying to set up containment...?
Mind Control needs it own section...it's it's just weird and different from all the other sets lol. -
Quote:He did say that and everyone laughed loudly...but I still think that they might not give us the option...who knows.Originally Posted by GoldenDestroyer
If I recall from when people spoke of the Water Blast part of the Pummit, Posi said that he'll expect people to be mature about the color of it, so I assume that means we'll get the normal color palate.
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Quote:I like your suggestion about SoC. I think that a lot of people would still cry out for the damage of Carrion Creepers to be reduced as well though but making it not perma would probably solve a lot of issues/worries.Originally Posted by EricHough
My only objection to your changes is in Seeds - it really IS the only regular AoE hard control in plant and reducing it to mag 2 makes it basically useless for controllers and non-perma-dom's, since you only get minions with that and since the set offers no other confuse to stack with it you will never get any better. Really, you don't need to kill the control, just set the recharge to 90s like all other every spawn controls, halve the duration (which would still make it roughly twice the duration of most AoE stuns) and give it a 0.9 base accuracy (slightly higher than fire/earths AoE stuns to allow for cones being harder to use).
Do just that, fix the damage on roots and bingo - the set is balanced a lot more like fire. Light on control (1 every spawn AoE control, 1 AoE hold on a long recharge, 1 AoE immob and a single target hold and immob, just like fire) and heavy on damage - fire gets hotfeet and better damage in the immobilize, plant gets carrion creepers.
I don't think that Plant Control should be anywhere near as strong as Fire Control though...I think that's just one of the reason why the set infuriates others. -
Quote:So hilarious and disturbing haha.Originally Posted by Leo_G
Good work! The Dairy Avenger will be visiting you tonight.
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Oh and since we are talking about Tiers here's my opinion of where the control sets stand. I'm am ranking by Control and then Damage.
Damage across the board
1. Plant Control
2. Fire Control
3. Illusion Control *Controllers Only
4. Dark Control
5. Gravity Control
6. Electric Control
7. Earth Control
8. Mind Control*Debatable
9. Ice Control
Control
1. Illusion Control* Only with Perma PA
2. Mind Control
3. Plant Control
4. Dark Control
5. Earth Control
6. Electric Control
7. Gravity Control
8. Ice Control
9. Fire Control -
I'm tired and I no longer have the will or strength to debate on the subject of Plant Control. So let's balance it out so that it can be in line with or lower than the other sets. I love Oedipus_Tex's suggestion about adding Regen to Plant Control. The issue that the majority of Dominators and Controllers have with Plant Control is the fact that it out performs Fire when it comes to Control and Damage on the High End of the game or in general...so tell me what you think about these suggestions to balance it out and once again make Illusion and Fire the rightful damage/control kings.
- Add a Regen effect to almost Every power...much like the Nature Affinity Set(shh!). I will discuss this at a later time of course.
- Roots-fix the roots bugs completely and make sure it does slightly less damage than Living Shadows.
- Seeds of Confusion- A lot of people have said that this power is far to powerful especially considering the level that this power is available. Reduce the Mag 3 to Mag 2 and give the power maybe a high chance for a personal or pbaoe heal/regen/absorb.
- Carrion Creepers- Increase the Recharge enough to make this power non-permable but also significantly reduce the Endurance cost. Make it so that the Pet cannot proc at all when it comes to the incarnate powers. You can also add some kind of big regen or absorb boost as well.
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I was wondering when this thread was going to take that turn.
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Quote:Same here.Originally Posted by Oathbound
You answered your own question, at least where it concerns me.
I'm not against Controller/Dom pets (Or random 1 offs like Dark Servant/Extraction), because I don't feel that they overshadow my character, but basically all a MM IS is a pocket (de)buffer for it's own pets, and I for one find that INCREDIBLY boring. -
I don't think a nerf to brutes or scrappers or damage increase that overshadows brutes or scrappers is enough. I think we need some mechanics thrown in for flavor much like what lannis said maybe Taunt or Gauntlet can give off a -RES Aura? That would encourage players to play Tankers.
I personally avoid them because I find them boring and the survival pay off isn't as dramatic as it should be. The -Res Aura and Aggro Cap would make a lot of people want to Play Tanks be it solo or teamed. It kind of reminds me of the Stalker issue...but Stalkers needed love all the way around lol.
I personally think that Tankers are fine but I wouldn't object to some changes in there to help out my fellow players who love Tankers...heck maybe even I woudl roll one
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Quote:Excellent. This would work...would it be overkill if every power was allowed the "double slot" treatment?Originally Posted by Arcanaville
On the subject of getting more slots. I suspect the devs are trying to figure out whether its possible with reasonable effort to untangle the way slots and powers unlock in the game, but suppose its not possible. I wonder if an interesting counter-proposal is that at level 25, 27, and 29, you were given the ability to designate one slot, any slot in any power, as a special "double slot." Anything slotted into that slot would have twice the enhancement strength effect, ignoring things like procs and other special effects. In effect, the power would have the *strength* of two slots for the price of one. The trade off is that on the one hand, you don't have to slot two separate enhancements: you get twice the strength with one. But on the other hand, you don't get the flexibility of having two real slots.
But because this doesn't change actual slotting, it doesn't mess up the level unlocking code. It overlays a special behavior on top of the slots and powers unlocks that shouldn't disrupt it. It would just be behind the scenes calculations on the calculated effects of what's in that slot.
Three double-strength slots instead of three extra slots. Interesting enough to be worth exploring? What if I threw in a kicker that any set IO slotted into those superslots would be worth two enhancements for set bonus calculation purposes? Worth exploring then? -
Maybe an increase to how many a Tanker can Taunt? As well as a absorb bonus for taunting a group of baddies beyond the old aggro cap?
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Quote:Hrmm, I think it would be best to have Local Man or another poster give you feedback on that combo...I would never make an Earth/Storm. Sorry : /Originally Posted by JordieLc
Yeah I know what ya mean and yes here it is http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...59CC7F6413EEF8
I can't remember the specifics but you indeed can! Good luck finding something that can survive that long though.Quote:Originally Posted by ThePriest
You do realize you can only have one tornado out at once, right? Casting it again kills the old tornado and starts a new one. Unless something changed in the last 2 issues...
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Quote:You posted a build? I have no idea why mids tells you that it's minor damage...maybe it's because it ticks a lot and the damage is slow? OR maybe because it functions somewhat like a patch or aura. Both Hotfeet and Bonfire are labeled as "minor damage" and we know that is NOT the case...heck even Blazing Aura from Fire Armor is labeled as "minor damage lol". I think it has to do with a numerical system that I'm not familiar with...something like Arcana time or what not. You got me there lol.Originally Posted by JordieLc
WoW Super Impressed, what about the build, does that look good for dmg now?
EDIT: Also if it does that much Dmg Why does it say Minor Dmg?
<---Bad at math. -
....Oh God I had a City Slicker 2 Flashback...
Wow...I can't find the link...well Billy Crystal Milked a Bull by accident and drank the "milk". -
Quote:Well Tornado deals 407.1 ticks of smashing damage within 30 seconds unenhanced (on a level 50) and the number goes even higher if you consider the -Res from Freezing Rain and the Achilles Proc in either FR or Tornado itself. Sadly I still don't know how to factor in -Res so we will skip that part. Waterspout deals 271.4 ticks of smashing damage unenhanced (on a level 50). Now my toon (with ageless) can put out two Tornadoes and 1 waterspout out at the same time which is great especially if I have the critter/critters immob'd...Two Tornadoes and 1 waterspout deals 1,085.6 ticks of damage within roughly 60 seconds UNENHANCED.Originally Posted by JordieLc
Well lets talk math than, I cant seem to find a good number of DMG that tornado... So how much dmg are we talking or do u think the dmg is just good because its a force you dont need to control.
Now Add the Lady grey proc which checks every 10 seconds...lets say that it only procs once for the two Tornadoes and waterspout...from just that proc alone you're looking at 214 points of damage. Now I'm going to add my Build's values to Tornado and Waterspout and add up all the damage...keep in mind this STILL isn't factoring in the -Res values.
817 x 2= 1,634 + 573= 2,207 pts of damage in 1 minute. Even Blizzard is jealous! (Unless you take burnout and double blizzard but that's just overkill!!!) Now mix that damage with your pets, Lightning Storm and other goodies and you're looking at a good time! Also something that will not only keep an AV's Regen at bay but it would melt them slowly into oblivion.
It happens a lot actually and it's not the first time that I've been burnt for doing so.Quote:Originally Posted by Reppu
>Ask for advice on how to build for better damage.
>Told to slot/keep Tornado because it does immense damage.
>Drop tornado, ignore advice, doing far less damage.
Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff! -
Quote:It's an amazing set but it takes a while to "feel out" just like How Plant Control and Electric Control were seen as "just ok" when they first came out.Originally Posted by Moonlighter
I disagree with posters saying Darkness Control is not good; I am enjoying it and find it to be very effective. To use it effectively you need to be good at lining up cones though. It's probably one of the better sets if you don't include the broken-ness that is Seeds of Confusion.
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Quote:I'm your opposite. I have a Fire Storm that laughs at bosses and EB's Thanks to Tornado, Water Spout and Fire Imps. I just proc both of them out the Lady Jane chance for Neg dmg and I just sit there and watch as the Bosses health goes to zero.Originally Posted by JordieLc
I agree Local man is a smart guy, but you can only help so much, in this case im at a wall where my build can get no better , I have all i NEED and WANT .
what it coes down to is my play style , and noone can fix that no offence Local
If you go Ageless you can get Volcanic Gasses Perma which is amazing and VG works well with hold and dmg procs yum! -
Quote:Yogi Nailed it. Heck once you're level shifted there's little that can stand in the way of SoC.Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Without level shifts; def/resis means little in the trials and the mobs tend to shrug off mezzes fairly quick.
P/S are AoE heavy as well; which can be a problem if your heavy hitters are leaving you behind.
I recommend utilizing whatever stealth you have and playing keep up with the guys that are pushing ahead. -
I think Local man is a Tad Bias on this one lol. Honestly though he's basically right though. Illusion is going to put out more damage than Dark or at least Illusion has a huge burst of dmg thanks to PA. Dark has more control and the -to hit meshes well with you soft control/buff powers like Choking Cloud and Radiation Infection. Illusion doesn't have to worry much about control since all of your pets keep you safe.
Dark has a lot of unrealized potential that even I don't know about yet and I still have yet to get one to 53. I've been also told that it's possible to have two Haunts out at the same time if you have enough recharge.
I think Ill/Rad comes out on top but you should try Dark/Rad once you're done with you Ill/Rad controller. -
I also took the Leviathan APP for Bile Spray and Waterspout which is just like Tornado but only it's knockup.
IF you want Raw Dmg Fire/Storm and Plant /Storm is the way to go BUT...
Dark/Storm has it's perks as well.
- The -ToHit nature adds defense to your stormie when you are running mist or any other defense powers. Think of -To hit as aggressive +def lol.
- Heart of Darkness combined with Thunderclap can Deliver a mag 4 or 5 Stun! and those two powers are always up!
- Mixing Fearsome Stare and Living Shadows give you a lot of survivability since they can barely hit you
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Quote:True, A lot of players go by Heresy as well instead of just trying something out for themselves. All they have to do is make a KB themed toon when Level Bumps are available on BETA to test it out.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
As it does for me at times, when it comes to creating characters. But all I'm saying is that its likely most people who hate knockback are likely to avoid sets with lots of it. Not all of them, just the majority of them.
Yes! I would love to have the option to simply turn it off or on at will!Quote:Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
Also, some of them might like the ability to go back and forth. My girlfriend has a blast juggling people with her Sonic/EB defender, and it'd be nice if she could also do more than buff when running Minds of Mayhem.
Yes, I realize that the only way the currently discussed enhancement could be used to go back and forth is by making multiple builds, but both myself and other posters had raised the idea of making this a Null the Gull option.
Sorry Arcana for missing your point sometimes...it's just that the way you word and phrase things...well sometimes your vocabulary/sentence structure is soooo Top Tier that I find myself having to read your post several times to get the jist of what you are saying lol. I mean English Lit level over 9,000 there lol...sometimes I feel like I'm reading a Sonnet about COH lol. -
Quote:It's actually not complex really and it's more primal and basic than one might think...it's about the aesthetics! For me that overrides logic at times!Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's likely to be true, but I'm not sure how to connect it to the statement "most of the people who hate knockback don't tend to play energy blasters." I still don't see how its at all likely that most people who play energy blast could possibly hate knockback when knockback is its signature secondary effect. Every single attack deals knockback: it can't be avoided by selecting attacks that don't have it.
My guess is that most players don't have strong feelings either way, so the statement "energy blasters would rejoice" is already on thin ice, but even if most people did have strong opinions energy blast itself would seem to self-select players that like knockback.
*Some* energy blasters might rejoice (and the number is certainly non-zero) but saying "energy blasters would rejoice" when the number is almost certainly a minority seems highly misrepresenting.
So setting aside the general discussion of knockback, the statement that if the IO was global energy blasters would rejoice seems unlikely. Its likely that whether the number of players that like knockback is high or low, they would be concentrated in the sets that actually have it. Its likely the many of them would not use it at all. And of the ones that do, there is no reason to believe that they would not want to do so specifically for a select power rather than all of them simultaneously.
Some people like the look and feel of the set but they are not crazy about the secondary KB that comes with it. I also find myself disliking certain powers in the set but if I exclude them from my build it leaves a hole in my offense...so for me to properly enjoy the set in it's entirety I am forced to learn how to leverage my KB. Well since I personally am unable to adapt to that style of play no matter how hard I try I end up I dropping the ball and I either delete or move on to another toon. Many players feel this way about many other sets no matter if it's about KB, the clunky look of ice armor or something else like "lack of mitigation (Fire Blast)". Maybe some players have tried out sets like Energy Blast or powers like Energy Torrent and fell in love with the look, feel or damage of the power/sets BUT they did not like the KB so they either scrapped the power from their build or stop leveling the toon altogether...meanwhile they are torn because they love the set/power but they just can't get over the KB :/ (points to self). This proc will allow that individual to personally enjoy that toon that they always wanted to play but couldn't and it will maybe open their minds up to actually appreciating KB more and even better yet a small chance of them maybe learning how to utilize KB to their advantage.
I love Illusion but Phantsam drives me UP THE WALL sometimes. I love Shockwave but the KB makes me nervous lol. Repulsing Torrent was a big hit with me until they added KB. I have personally tried out almost all the powers I can think of or find a combo for on mids and I have tested them but there are a few sets that are a No-go for me just because of the KB nature of the set. I've been itching to play a PB and a Energy Blaster for years I've just been waiting or hoping for a day when I can have the option to either nullify or greatly reduce the secondary effect of Knockback.
I think that the other posters mean to say.."I know a lot of people who want to play Energy Blast (and have tried it out) but refuse to due to KB. These people will go ape**** if this was Global. There will be a fresh batch of Energy Blasters spilling out on the servers...clouding the skies with their numbers and eagerness to finally try out a set that they have always been curious about for years."
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Quote:OY! Not this again! lolOriginally Posted by SleepyWeasel
I seem to remember they tested Ice for brutes and decided against it. The slowing effect on enemies was counter productive.