SwellGuy
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Those are all tricks to keep the proletariat down!Originally Posted by Nethergoat
well, besides all the free advice on how to get fabulously wealthy, the grooming tips, the fabulous recipes and Swellguy letting you borrow his virtual truck to move, sure.
/em plot -
Quote:I finally got the last purple for my warshade last night so I thought I'd stop by.Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Did someone set out a kettle of sweetened marketears? Where are all these casual warshades coming from?
He is down to less than 100M influence though so I am going to hope Unai will be generous so I can rebuild my influence. Oh wait. What will I need influence for now? -
Quote:I agree. With signature characters on them even better.Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
I can only speak for myself, but with regards to the T-shirts/Hero-Con issue, I didn't go to teh Con for the shirt. I would much rather have them available for everyone, rather than something 'exclusive' just because I could afford to meet the Devs in person. In my opinion, more people wearing shirts emblazoned with the game's name, the better.
Something friendly like Tyrant standing on the necks of Statesman and Recluse for Going Rogue for example. -
Quote:You consider it disingenuous becuase of your bias. For you there is only: either no PvE reward in the PvP zones or you must PvP to get them.Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Now I'm just confused.
Shivans and Nukes are too awesome to just be handed out. That's why they're in PvP zones.
But it's 100% okay to obtain Shivans and Nukes without actually fighting. That doesn't unbalance them in the least.
But if instead of avoiding PvP, you cut a deal with other people in the zone where you take turns grabbing your prizes, then you're all dirty exploiting cheaters.
But if instead of cutting a deal, you just use other methods to avoid fights, that's strategy and clever and you totally deserve your prize.
Also, attacking people in PvP is a faster way to achieve PvE goals. Except that that's only true if they weren't trying to kill you in the first place, and you win, and they don't kill you back.
Man, being disingenuous is hilarious. I should have gone this way a lot sooner!
Let's review.
4 zones where you can PvP and PvE (Bloody Bay, Sirens, Warburg, Recluse's Victory)
arena where you can only PvP.
2 zones where you can neither PvP nor PvE (Ouroboros and Pocket D)
7 villain zones where you can PvE (Mercy, Port Oakes, Cap, Sharkhead, Nerva, St. Martial, and Grandville)
At least 20 hero zones where you can PvE (Atlas Park, Galaxy City, Perez Park, Hollows, Skyway, Steel Canyon, Striga Island, Croatoa, Brickstown, Founders Falls, Eden, Dark Astoria, Crey's Folley, Terra Volta, Peregrine Island, Boomtown, Faultline, Independance Port, Talos Island, the many Shard Zones)
2 co-op zones: Cimeroa, RWZ
Is it unreasonable to ask that PvP be removed from the 4 PvPvE zones just because someone wants shivans and nukes and cannot stomach the possibility of getting defeated without any penalty but time spent? PvPers would like to PvP on demand in the other 29+ zones if they could have their way but they get (rightfully so) shut down when they suggest that.
Or to put it another way. There are non-PvPers who think the Shivans/nukes risk of PvP is not unreasonable.
So here are the options:
1. Overhaul the game to remove shivans/nukes or deny without PvP which will result in complaints
2. Overhaul the game to remove PvP from getting shivans/nukes which will result in complaints
3. Leave it as is and expect people to accept the risk but there will always be people who will complain about it
4. Other but would have to involve changing the game which will still result in people complaining
Which future game enhancement that you want would you like to forfeit so they can change it so different people can complain about it and we can have these ridiculous threads on that subject? -
Quote:News to me also but boy would a Going Rogue t-shirt before it is out be cool.Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Well, you learn something new every day. I didn't know the PlayNC website had a merchandise area. It's officially news to me.
I don't know why it redirects me to the EU website, but I don't understand a lot of these things. -
Quote:Right, there'd be the "Wah! We cannot get Shivans/Nukes/stealth powers or badges without PvPing! The devs are making us PvP!"Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Not really, because the mechanics of those rewards are entirely PVE orintated, defeated mobs, use power on object, deliver captives. At no point during the process of getting nukes or shivians, are you required to defeat another player.
If the mechanics of those rewards required PVP there wouldn't be this whole issue.
Shivans and nukes are not required to play the game. Should the devs setup a store where you could buy them for 100 million inf or 500 merits? -
Quote:There's only one game in the PvP zones. Others trying to play a different game are cheaters.Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Fundamentally different. Zero-sum game. Their win is necessarily your loss and vice versa. Not the case in PvP zones: both sides can "win" by obtaining shivans and nukes.
Fundamentally different. Zero-sum game. You can't win without playing. See above.
There are two games, being played simultaneously, on the same field. If everyone plays one game, everyone can win. If anyone plays the other game, the first game becomes harder. I just don't get why this is considered a good way to set up games. -
Quote:I would LOVE if people would stop with the generalities. Yet there you go again. I am not a PvPer but I accept the zones as they are. Yet you list only 2 types of people: the PvEer and the PvPer. Yet if I am not a PvPer why is my position listed as the PvPer view?Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
In generall, can we at least stop doing this one:
PvPer: The existence of PvP in zones is natural law. Entering the zones to obtain a PvE reward is a voluntary choice.
PvEer: The existence of PvE rewards in zones is natural law. Attacking people in the zones is a voluntary choice.
It's disingenuous, and seeks to vindicate one's own actions as "natural" and the other's actions as "voluntary", when the actual design permits the choice to enter or not and the choice to attack or not.
SwellGuy, I'd be happy to concede your point with one modification. If Shivans and Nukes came with the requirement of PvP, if it were literally impossible to obtain these items without fighting another player character, there would be no problem in my eyes. A "risk" is something people try to avoid. I am still lost as to the benefit of rewarding avoidance of PvP in a PvP zone.
It really doesn't matter if you accept my point. The devs set up the zones the way they are and that's the way they work. You might have to PvP to get your shivans/nukes/badges/stealth power. You might not.
You claim avoidance is rewarded. This is only partially true. If I defeat you in a PvP zone I get rewarded. I might get your meteor fragment(s) or your freed scientist guy if you have any. I might get a PvP recipe. And by time you get back I have already moved on. So truthfully there is more reward to PvPing in the PvP zone than not.
So your assertion that the reward is for avoiding PvP is wrong. The reward is in not losing in PvP. -
Quote:Um, yeah. I'll keep arguing with people who say the earth is flat also. Because they are wrong. The person who thinks they should get those PvE goodies without the risk of getting ganked is wrong. Period. Until they get a brain cell in their head and see that they are wrong and will continue to be wrong. They can argue until the sun burns out and they will still be wrong.Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
The sole problem I have is with the design that makes it possible for PvEers to obtain large rewards in PvP zones without engaging in PvP, and then places the decision as to whether this will happen in the hands of PvPers. Who then have the choice between doing what they came to do, what they are allowed to do, what they are even incentivized to do... or not making someone's day harder than it necessarily had to be.
Why do you even want to have that choice? Neither option is good. And as much as you might wish it, the option to attack people, make their acquisition of rewards more difficult than it strictly had to be, and have them always accept this as good and proper is never going to happen. Do you know how I know this? Because we're still arguing.
Shivans and Nukes come with the risk of PvP. Period. Any other expectation is selfish entitlement unreasonableness. Period. -
We need City stuff to buy to put on our desks at work, walls at home and bodies for out and about.
Sell us stuff and we can do some of your work for you.
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Quote:Why would you perversely choose to risk PvP if it is so painful to you that you use words like "inflict" and "punishment"?Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
The essential problem is that this treats PvP as a punishment for trying to get free toys, and it's a punishment that players voluntarily inflict on each other. Why would you not resent the people who punish you when they don't have to, even if they are allowed and encouraged to do so? The expectation that people will learn to enjoy the activity that is inflicted on them as punishment for trying to get what they want is, quite literally, perverse.
Why should someone get the goodies for free in the PvP zones? Sounds to me like spoiled brats. -
Quote:Multiple things can cause variances.Originally Posted by Draugadan
Really? How? I guess I just don't get the market thing. I've honestly been trying the last month. I've been in this forum reading everything I can. Most of the tutorials are old. I have 3 50's blue side. I've tried the "just play the game and sell everything" method. I've tried crafting and selling, I've tried a few other things listed on tuturials. That didn't get me 3 Billion. Heck the most I have on any of my 50's is (was... I started to buy some IO's) 120 Mil. I have to assume there is some basic simple thing I am missing.
I'd love to have some of the expensive IO's. And I'd love to find a way that fits my time/schedule to earn them myself. But so far I just haven't found that.
So when I see a post that says I got 3 billion in 6 weeks. It just makes me wonder.
1. How much someone plays. A person who can squeeze in 4 hours a week is going to generate far less in playing than someone who plays 4 hours a day.
2. What someone does when playing. A person who has a farm mission set to x8 players and they zoom through it is going to generate a lot more drops and inf than someone who can only slowly work through a +0/x1 map. For example I chug along through Ouroboros mostly using Unai's "To Save a Thousand Worlds". When I finish the arc I get 43 merits plus all the drops I did in it. When I want to hurry I turn the difficulty down otherwise I run it at +0/x3.
I vendor my level 50 common recipes for around 70-100k a piece. I check the market prices on both the recipes and crafted enhancements for the other recipes. Once in a while I get one worth 10s of millions though usually they are vendor fodder. I can sell the salvage or vendor it depending on my available market slots and their value.
3. Soloing or teaming. Since I solo +0/x3 I get all the drops. If I were teamed it might go faster but the drops would spread out.
4. Merits' usage. I take my merits and when I hit 100+ I do the random roll in the 35-39 level. Some end up vendored but a few score big. -
Quote:Nice assumption about their motives because they couldn't possibly enjoy the zone aspects mixed with PvP even though I am fairly certain that was presented at least once in this thread. Note I am NOT a PvPer and I stay out of the zones when the PvPers are there or I avoid them if at all possible. If they kill me, oh well I'll try again later. I don't come crying to the forums to have the devs change the PvP zones.Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
You know I mentioned pretty much the exact same thing waaaayy back in the thread.
The only reply I got when I said about stripping out PvE mechanics from the PvP zone was that there and turning the PvP zones into a pure PvP experience was 'we use the arena for that'. In other words PvPers don't WANT the PvE mechanics stripped out of the zone because it provides a lure and the occasional bit of drama when a PvEr wanders in to get the badges.
Pure PvP is in the arenas.
Mix is in PvP zones.
No PvP everywhere else in the game.
I am beginning to think the anti-PvP crowd is being deliberate in distorting the PvP perspective or they are too dumb to get it. -
Quote:Same.Originally Posted by NovaFactor
agreed
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I rarely play in human form other than to mire, eclipse, summon extractions, stygian circle and gravity well.
However I took the human shield powers to put in Impervium Armors, one of the Psionic Resistance plus one other cheap one to get the Psi resistance plus the increased recovery (2.5% per pair).
In absorption I put in Steadfast Protection's KB prot and res/def plus the Psi/status protection IO (Aegis).
In a couple human blasts I put in 2 devastations to get 12% regeneration per pair.
In the teleport powers I pop a pair of the Time and Space sets to get the 8% regen per pair.
Basically I use the powers to boost my stats: endurance/recovery, hitpoints/regeneration, damage, and recharge. -
Quote:Typically these threads bring much of my ignore list to the screen. Or it adds to it. I figure if someone is stupid enough to write what some of these people write the odds of them ever writing anything anywhere I would benefit from reading is too low to care.Originally Posted by dave_p
This thread reminds me how much I miss the ignore list.
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Quote:Attention all people who don't get the markets. Read Carnifax's post, especially the bolded part. I get my own that way and sell any extras I get. At level 10 you only need 60 tickets per roll.Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Which side, Red or Blue? Recipies or Crafted.
Red Side is a little screwy usually and more so now because of MMs raking it in via an AE bug which was exploited.
Mind you Karmas are low level Bronze rolls, I usually buy them with tickets from running a few MA story arcs and get them fairly quickly. -
Quote:The I17 pre-download already happened.Originally Posted by Deathstroke33
How about you set up a separate game updater for the test server for download? That way I don't have to search all over the forums for how to set up the test server and then go into my program files and edit things only to discover something is wrong. Is it really that difficult to make things easier on your player base to test?
But then by what you said, once I17 comes out none of us will be able to play for 90 hours or so. If hundreds or thousands does that on the test server, just imagine the live server. -
Because Issue 17 is huge and hundreds if not thousands of people are trying to download the new larger client at the same time.
What would you suggest they do to get a new 3 GB client image with Ultra Graphics to you? -
/signed and even cooler if we can tear them up somehow even if just a graphical effect like destroying stuff in mayhems.
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Quote:Bingo.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Yes, we get why folks WANT them.
I think his point was if the items in question don't move for days (sometimes weeks on the BM) and tie up one of his limited marketing slots, what is the incentive for him to list them.
Also goes to the heart of my original objection to one of the suggestions earlier. If it's tieing up my markets slots for days because no one is buying it what is the rational reason for charging me a HIGHER market fee, for something that's out of my control? Isn't this a further disincentive for me to list such items?
If you want them, bid on them so sellers know there is an interest and at least make it a decent bid. -
Quote:Leave things as they are.Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
I mean 'read stuff while they're doing the PvPing - I didn't mean that a player cannot like to PvP in RV on monday and then do some SFMArcs on tuesday, a TF on wednesday, etc. In my experience, the PvP I see is independent of any narrative reasoning for it. RPvP doesn't exist, does it?
Well, I'd say that less would complain, because there's a subset of PvP-averse PvEers who would be happy with the nerfed Shivans they could get from the new PvE-versions of BB for example. Like me.
Yeah, you'd probably get people complaining anyway, but what can you do?
Eco. -
Quote:There are non-PvPers who accept that the PvP zones have the possibility of being PvPed and do not make demands that we should have access to the badges and temp powers of the PvP zones without that risk.Originally Posted by Umber
The pvp argument reminds me of a discussion of grammatical paradoxes, this snippet:
"This sentence contains one error." Of course it is in error, since it contains no errors. That is, it contains no spelling errors ("first-order errors"). Needless to say, there are such things as "second-order errors"-errors in the counting of first-order errors. So the sentence has no first-order errors and one second-order error. Had it talked about how many first-order errors it had, or how many second-order errors it had, that would be one thing-but it makes no such fine distinctions. The levels are mixed indiscriminately. In trying to act as its own objective observer, the sentence gets hopelessly muddled in a tangle of logical spaghetti.
Seems to me the two sides of the pvp argument so often drive past each other depending on the importance they place upon the different orders of the argument. The poor PvPer just can't understand why someone doesn't want to pvp him in a pvp zone, the poor PvEer just can't understand why a cut-it-out request goes unheeded. Its like watching a bad Three's Company sketch which is admittedly a bit redundant.
So you left out a non-PvPer who doesn't give a hoot about people who think they should be able to traipse into the PvP zones with little or no risk and get Shivans and nukes.
PvP risk raises the power and value of those temp powers. Many of us accept those in combination and are tired of people who think they should get it without the effort/risk. -
Quote:Fair enough. I assert there is no need to make this change to the existing system to satisfy some warped perspectives of the zones.Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
The general point is to make it impossible to obtain the reward without defeating somebody in PvP. I'm not terribly interested in hashing out the details; I assert that a solution exists, and the proof is left to the reader.
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They don't delete.
If a character is reported and a GM determines it is in violation (trademark in the looks department not copyright by the way) they will give you a costume change token and set you to generic tights. If a name is in violation they will rename you to Generic1213114144 (some number) and you will need to submit name suggestions to them for a rename.