SwellGuy

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Well written, and well done.

EDIT: Also shatters yet another myth that general whinners come up with.

Let's see we've done:
"A 50 can't make 1mil inf per hour"
"It's impossible to make a Billion inf in 30 days"
"It's ebil marketing that's screwing the market"

Any others left to debunk?

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You have to pay the flippers' prices to get stuff.

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Will have to work on that one next . . . actually the debunking of that happens everyday.

Just have to figure out a way to show it.

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The fact that flippers exist disproves the myth. If everyone had to pay the flippers' prices to get stuff (including, presumably, the flippers), then there wouldn't be any profit in flipping.

-DR

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Logic and reason aren't strong suits for market haters.

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Well written, and well done.

EDIT: Also shatters yet another myth that general whinners come up with.

Let's see we've done:
"A 50 can't make 1mil inf per hour"
"It's impossible to make a Billion inf in 30 days"
"It's ebil marketing that's screwing the market"

Any others left to debunk?

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You have to pay the flippers' prices to get stuff.

Thanks for the write up.

That was an incredible journey you made.

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Strikeforce Name: Mender Silos SF
Contact :Mender Silos
Merits Awarded: You received 6 reward merits. (+1)

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Can someone check this on the test server... I did a mender Silos yesterday on Live and got 7 merits. If really the person who tested did received 6 merits, then it should be -1.

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Hero Mender Silos TF on Live is 7.
Villain Mendoer Silos SF on Live is 5.

I muled off my 3 vendor trash rolls for "someday".

Someday it will be worth more than the vendor will pay or someday I will have a use for it or someday that mule will get played and I will want those slots cleared.

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Did I mention I was voted most likely to be in prison in 5 years by my college professors?

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How long ago was that?

I reported as a bug and petitioned the following as well:

Last night I stumbled across base to brainstorm conversions and brainstorm to invention conversions were not counting towards my crafting badges (Artisan, Master Artisan, etc.). No news there.

But what also happened was my villain who had done all that brainstorm work didn't get credit for 12 enhancements he crafted from his memorized list. I popped over to a hero on another server and crafted one enhancement from his memorized list which also didn't give him credit.

This afternoon the hero has his count increased by 1 but the villain's count remains where it was before I did my crafting last night. So while the hero may have been a lag issue, the villain remains a mystery.

Perhaps because he had done brainstorm conversions and the hero hadn't?

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Who told you that?

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It came up in the forums, and someone asserted they had tested it. Since it is an extraordinary claim, I present it as a rumor; it's been on my list to test, but I've barely logged on for a month, so I haven't yet.

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It'd be easy enough to test on a Widow, SR scrapper, or something with a similar high number of defense powers. At worst, all it costs you is the need to spend a respec.

So who's going to give me 6 LotG's to test this theory with?

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6 LotGs would hit the cap. You need either 5 LotGs and one other 7.5% recharge or 5 other 7.5% recharges and one LotG 7.5% recharge to test it.

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Except you can get full benefit of most (all?) of those purples, but you can only make use of the first 5 LotG.

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Rumor has it the 5 bonus rule does not apply to LotG +7.5% bonuses. I have yet to test.

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The non-obvious behavior you're thinking of is that the LotG +7.5% bonuses are separate from the sets that give 7.5% +recharge. They both obey the rule of 5, but you can have five of each.

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And BABs or Castle posted an explanation of this a while ago is that the rule of 5 is not by the numerical benefit but by the name of the benefit.

So if 7.5% recharge normally is named "Moderate Recharge" (I don't recall the real name), the LotG 7.5% is called a different name so they do not overlap.

Which makes it very hard to explain to people too. It's not like we know which ones say "tiny" versus "small" versus "minor" and so on. We just know the numbers 1%, 1.5%, 2%, etc. So when they name the same % with 2 different names it just creates confusion.

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Incredible. This is like watching a really expensive train wreck.

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Perhaps a gold reserve train?

No, wait. How about just a gold train.

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The Money Train. (Not a good movie but not horrible either.)

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I don't need the money? I always need the money. I've got kids to feed.

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Is that a quote from George Lucas?

Of course the thread is no longer around so I cannot get the answer...

In the past couple months Niv locked a post here where someone was selling the costume code from one of the conventions for inf. So I am betting they will say this is a no no as far as the rules go.

I don't really understand/agree with that decision nor would I agree if they said this was also a no no.

But all that aside, when in a pact, does the logged out party get a cut of the inf or just exp?

So long, thanks and best wishes Lighthouse.

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Thats the point mate, they are presenting you with a choice of playing your way and getting no merits or playing the way they want you to, and getting merits. Ain't it great?

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Ah but merits are great for the TF runners who hate the market. All 4 of them.

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I guess what bothers me the most about the merit system is that for a casual player (i.e. someone who has limited time on any given night to play due to Real Life) will mostly go virtually unrewarded for many things that they do.

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Why...why, why, why do you people think grinding is the only way to go?

Casual player. Solos, mostly. Takes his time leveling up. Does the contacts and the story arcs because they provide a nice XP bonus at the end. Doesn't do TFs because he doesn't have the time/doesn't particularly want to group.

Under the current system, he'd get no pool C drops at all. He'd be lucky to get anything decent from regular enemy drops, and he surely wouldn't have the inf to buy anything beyond SOs until he gets into the 40s-50s.

Under the merit system, he'll steadily accumulate merits through story arcs, and will be able to trade them in relatively quickly for random recipes or save them up for better stuff in the high levels.

I really think the story arcs are getting underestimated here. All y'all can think about is how grinding is going to be hurt and somehow that affects the casual player's ability to get decent stuff. The casual player doesn't give a crap about grinding, but he will be able to accumulate merits naturally over the course of his character's career.

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How dumb is this player you are thinking of when you wrote this?

I sell my Luck Charms and place lowball bids on Accuracy IOs that the crafters dump on the market. I buy low price set IOs for frankenslotting?

I guess I never understand this hypothetical casual player. He is too dumb to succeed under one system but will magically get enough merits and use them to get all the right recipes in the next.

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But wait, didn't you hear, Inventions are optional.




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They will be...

Also, they are constricting salvage holdings in bases to 30 in each bin including Halloween and Candy Canes. They probably think that they can force people to sell it and not hoard it to keep the prices down this way.

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I understand that the 3 hour timer is not there anymore. But you have a 24 hour diminishing return penalty on any single TF. Meaning that if you run the same TF back to back, or even the same one every night at the same time, you will be subject to diminishing returns. I do not know what the exact diminishing return is. I don't think anyone has tested that significantly.

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Interestingly...

I just ran A Hero's Hero twice in a row on Test, timing myself because it seems like the reward is a tad low (19 merits =~ 95 minutes, and I really have to push it, on heroic, to finish with my scrapper at around that time; 1h39m was my second time, and I had to respec into SuperSpeed, so it really seems a tad fast for a datamined average time, but I disgress).

Second time I got the same 19 merits I did on the first one.

Seems like the diminishing returns don't apply to Ouroarcs (EDIT: Or at least it takes more than 2 runs to trigger it... I also took my 38 merits, rolled a random recipe because it's test, and got a Sandman's Chance to Heal, I'm so disappointed I didn't get a Crap of the Hunter. The odd thing is that it was level 50, but I hit the "roll random 35-39", hmmm).

I'll leave you to ponder the immediate meaning of that

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I found the same thing running Villain arcs, Ouro missions don't seem to have diminishing returns. I /bugged it, I would guess that they would want that, otherwise people will just bang out the best Merit/per hour Story Arc over and over to get what they want.

I assume that isn't the behavior they're hoping to provoke with this.

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Nope but if they don't fix it before Live, you can bet it is where we will find the merit farmers.

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Not gonna work.

On the otherhand, it looks like good'ole inf farming is the best way to get your stuff. That way it does not really matter how much stuff cost as long as its on the market. Getting inf is MUCH faster to get than grinding for merits alone.

I'm done with trying to discuss it.

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But like the Black Market last winter, all the inf in the world can't buy stuff if people aren't selling it.

According to the list in Catwhoorg's post in the I13 feedback she gives 40 but it was reported that only one person got merits on the team.

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Two questions: First, I have a couple characters I've been trying to IO out and who have run quite a few story arcs and TF's - will they receive retroactively awarded merits for story arcs already run (somehow I doubt it), and if not (second), will they be penalized for running those arcs again through Oroborous?

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Anybody? Anybody at all have an answer? Guess?

Also, is there any info on how many merits the Kheldian Story arcs get?

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Catwhoorg has a thread in the I13 feedback. Meritorious merits or something like that is the subject. It lists the known merit rates as well as known bugs.

Kheldians seem to get 6-7 for their arcs but it seems to alternate level groups between shades and PBs.

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I started a "Make a flat rate for each pool, end arbitrary pricing" thread on the Closed Beta forums. There was no response. I don't understand what the heck they are trying to accomplish.

I don't think they do either. They sorta just said "yeah, what the heck, let's just go with that."

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Completely agree with the flat rate for each pool. Value can be very subjective, and they're going to waste their time and drive themselves crazy trying to chase down and compensate for values of these things.

Also, I wonder if anyone will even use the random roll feature. It seems like people will probably just horde their merits to spend on big ticket items.

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....

lol, just lol.

Some of the pricing on this stuff is making people (me included) scratch their heads.

Precisely why (combined with your first paragraph) I said when we had discussions on this pre-beta and in the market forum, that devs shouldn't be setting prices in this way.

Also could have sworn the system was first pitched by Posi as an ADDITIONAL way to earn POOL Cs. Though he has clarified why this philosophy was changed, its disappointing to say the least.

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Exactly. Merits were initially touted as an alternative to getting Pool Cs but weren't supposed to be better on average than actually running TFs and taking the random drop.

Now they are everything but purples and Hami-Os and special salvages.

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Thank you for putting this together Neuronia. I'd like to see a comprehensive price list, but I guess I'll see for myself soon enough. I don't understand what the devs were thinking, though. What problem were they trying to solve? What impact do they think this is going to have?

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See EvilRyu's signature...

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You can select a Recipe of your choice at any level range from 25-50.

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So, does this mean 10-24 procs, uniques and specials have high value or not enough to justify special efforts?

[/ QUOTE ]I think its a typo cuz I know a few weeks back when they let everyone on I was able to move the slider to the lvl 20 range as well. I couldnt test it today cuz the pc I am on is extremely slow but will test it again when i get to the house.

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I'm in Pocket D with my scrapper and though I have no merits, you can scroll down to 1 (no options there of course), but at 10 I can pick the Karma and Kismet and Steadfast Prot IOs.

The Karma KB Prot is 50 while Steadfast's is 125.

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You can select a Recipe of your choice at any level range from 25-50.

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So, does this mean 10-24 procs, uniques and specials have high value or not enough to justify special efforts?