SwellGuy

I like your idea but I fear it could somehow result in the devs changing things believing it.

How about rather than refuting them with facts we just answer them with "You're wrong" or "No it isn't"?

Yes, anything to make it less annoying.

Most of my rents are well under 1k and it is a pain to go pay it. I am about to simply park an alt at the base payment location. Anyone have any good idea for names for such a guy?

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This is pretty complicated and difficult, but try to stay with me:

If they wanted a store, they wouldn't have made a market.

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Hmm. For 8 issues, we had stores and no market. Guess the devs are allowed to change their minds. Sometimes, no matter how great an idea seems, it needs reworked once its been out for a while. and sometimes, ideas need scrapped altogether. The market is neither. It should stay as it is, for the most part. But the reward structure of the REST of the game, should be brought in line with the market. Y'know, Positron was all about "reward per time spent" a while back, and the market breaks that. A store is the easiest way to restore some parity. (and the worst way, absolutely the worst way, is to limit marketeers even more than available slots already do. The devs should be trying to get MORE people playing on the market, not less.)

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We had no drops and no crafting for 8 issues.

The entire pre-I9 game still exists including the stores. You don't have to use the markets to get inventions either, but you may be spending an awful lot of time beating up badguys and running TFs to get them.

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This is pretty complicated and difficult, but try to stay with me:

If they wanted a store, they wouldn't have made a market.

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Well, they do have 2 stores of a kind now. Merits and tickets.

So obviously they believe people should invest time in earning tickets, merits or inf or invest time in the market.

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And the person that flips the LotG (Example only for prices) buy buying them at 30mil, and re-listing them all for 100mil has artificially created that price knowing that eventually people will want them enough to pay that much.

Its the sad reality that greed affects MMORPS where the money isn't even real.

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That's just fallacious right there. If a flipper can get it for e.g. 30m, so can anyone else. You don't have to be a market-lover to see that!

Well I tried keep my thread on track. It's too bad this helpful forum has to devolve into petty squabbles on every [censored] thread.

I now understand why all the marketeers voluntarily take on the "ebil" mantle. The choice it to either relish in it or have it thrust upon you regardless by market-haters who confuse the people for the mechanic. If we have to be labeled ebil either way, why not be a dickhead to everyone who comes in here spouting ridiculous [censored]? Being offensive is much more fun than being defensive and it seems that's the only choice marketeers have.

Well [censored] all you luddites. If you're too [censored] stupid and lazy to make money on the market, you deserve to have a terrible play experience. And if you hate this game (and guess what, the market is PART of the game!!!) and yet continue to play, you deserve to be unhappy and bitter. You reap what you sow.

Anyhow, I'm done with this thread and probably the whole market forum for a while. I'm off to go make casual players miserable, steal from the poor, manipulate prices, force the devs to make the game less fun for everyone else, block reasonable changes to the game that would make it better, and club some baby seals. o/

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Dang, they took months to beat me down to mocking them but they got you there in a week.

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Not if everyone lists the item for a certain amount, and that is my fundamental problem with the Market. I can list what I WANT to pay till I'm blue in the face, but if no one sells it for that, I'll never get it, even if it is a reasonable amount.

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You don't get to define "reasonable", that's up to the playerbase as a whole.

If you leave a bid up for a good while and it still doesn't fill, you aren't valuing the item correctly and other people are.

I can bid 100k on a LotG recharge and never get it.
Because that isn't a reasonable bid, however hard I wish for it to be.

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And the person that flips the LotG (Example only for prices) buy buying them at 30mil, and re-listing them all for 100mil has artificially created that price knowing that eventually people will want them enough to pay that much.

Its the sad reality that greed affects MMORPS where the money isn't even real.

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Odd, I sold one for 65M yesterday that I got as a drop but let's assume your statement is a fact. What prevents you from paying any amount between 30 and 100 million to buy one? Say 31M?

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As I said, example prices only, as in no reflection of in game prices.

What prevents me from paying 31? someone listing it for 31.

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No one can buy it for 30 unless someone is listing it for 30 or less. If a flipper is buying it at 30 and relisting at 100 any one can buy it at 31-99.

You can earn some tickets in MA and randomly buy from the group you want and sell your excess.

[edit] oops I see Miladys_Knight covered that.

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Not if everyone lists the item for a certain amount, and that is my fundamental problem with the Market. I can list what I WANT to pay till I'm blue in the face, but if no one sells it for that, I'll never get it, even if it is a reasonable amount.

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You don't get to define "reasonable", that's up to the playerbase as a whole.

If you leave a bid up for a good while and it still doesn't fill, you aren't valuing the item correctly and other people are.

I can bid 100k on a LotG recharge and never get it.
Because that isn't a reasonable bid, however hard I wish for it to be.

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And the person that flips the LotG (Example only for prices) buy buying them at 30mil, and re-listing them all for 100mil has artificially created that price knowing that eventually people will want them enough to pay that much.

Its the sad reality that greed affects MMORPS where the money isn't even real.

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Odd, I sold one for 65M yesterday that I got as a drop but let's assume your statement is a fact. What prevents you from paying any amount between 30 and 100 million to buy one? Say 31M?

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Not if everyone lists the item for a certain amount, and that is my fundamental problem with the Market. I can list what I WANT to pay till I'm blue in the face, but if no one sells it for that, I'll never get it, even if it is a reasonable amount.

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So who is right? You or those who pay at least as much if not more? When I list my IOs for sale at 1/4 the last 5 and it instantly sells for 4x what I listed or if there is no one bidding and I list common salvage for 12 and later I get 5k how did I make them pay more?

Why can I get items I see selling for 100k for 1k by waiting a few hours?

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My whole idea with this apparently-forgotten guide is to have OBJECTIVE, VERIFIABLE statements that cannot be argued.

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Anti-market zealots won't believe you.

After all the world is flat and if you say differently you are lying or mistaken.

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because they have someone dressed colorfully doing *stuff.*

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That's my reason for playing.

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Fallacy 4: "You just believe that because it's convenient." Many people around here run experiments, take measurements, and generally _prove_ their various points. Standing there going "You just believe that because you're greedy" is a wonderful way of insulting people without, actually, disproving their points. Even if I'm a terrible terrible person, greedy and patronizing, that doesn't prove me wrong. But, hey, unearned moral superiority feels good, doesn't it?

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It is certainly easier for them that way. And the anti-farmers and the anti-pvpers and the...

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Fact : Using a condescending tone is never a good way to get people to listen to you.


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Irony at its finest.

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Speaking of Nethergoat, I think he was an early market hater. Well, some pro-market guy around here was and I think it was him.

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i was never a hater, thank goodness.

My big early mistake was defending the Black Market vs Wentworth's on the basis that the smaller supply pool and lower overall amount of inf available would result in lower prices. "yeah it's smaller, but players will realize that and price accordingly", or some similar nonsense.

Thankfully, it didn't take me long to wise up.

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Well fooey. I wonder who it was now.

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There's a considerable amount of emotional investment involved in people's antimarket stances.

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The people who are anti-farming are even worse. These people (from both 'anti' groups [market and farming]) will simply here the word market or farm and automaticly stop listening and proclaim how either have ruined the game.

For those who believe, no proof is needed. For those who do not believe, no proof is possible.

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Yep, same for people anti-pvp (note not like me not interested in PvP but really anti it) and a lot of other parts of the game they view as wrong with it.

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What a nice guy Fulmens. I don't care what those ebil base builders say about the marketers.

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I built an ebil base. Oh wait...

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One thing I DO miss, however, is that there used to be a time when the rules were applied with thought behind them, not just because the forum rules says so. Sometimes we were allowed to push and bend the rules if it was obvious it was in good spirits and helpful to fostering productive discussion, whereas other times trolls and idiots had their threads pulled for even passing violations of minor rules because they were making a mess of things. In fact, I used to tell people that they shouldn't worry about accidentally infringing on the rules as long as their heart is in the right place and they don't make a giant huge mess of things. Whether that was due to the generally lower severity of moderation or due to personal style (and it's not just Cuppa, as Lighthouse was pretty good about these things, too) I cannot say, but this no longer seems to be the case.


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I agree very strongly, except about Lighthouse.

I miss the days when the rules weren't used as a cudgel.

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Did you know that you cannot put a moderator on ignore.

Not that I tried...

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Of course not. Then you wouldn't know when they announce that the cookies are out on the table.

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Since i have to be more detailed. From my personal experience most people building missions go to any other zone other than Atlas.


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Because that is where the developers' designed contact is that every person gets sent to.

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The people in Galaxy at any given moment can be counted on one hand sometimes you must sacrifuce a finger for an arm but one persons quiet time isn't the issue

The tyvm u added just shows me the pettiness of peoples wants here. I wonder if you might have a more beneficial quiet time in bed under your blanky

Plz dont reply to any more of my post tyvm

Attitudes on forums = real life quiet people

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We go to Galaxy to get away from the "lf sewer" and "cc starting in 10 min" spam of Atlas which has been there for years.

Are you saying the AE/MA spam is more of an eyesore than those two which have always been there?

Speaking of Nethergoat, I think he was an early market hater. Well, some pro-market guy around here was and I think it was him.

I was the "goat" of this forum 2 years ago while Capn Canadian was the cool head of niceness. He pops in every now and then but he seemingly got tired of trying to get through the market haters walls.

[edit] I was nice before we had the market forum when the market was in open beta trying to calm the anti-loot forces. By time we got the forum I was tired of trying to explain to them how this was the best friend the casual player ever got to afford SOs by 22.

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There's a considerable amount of emotional investment involved in people's antimarket stances.

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This is the exact reason I want to get this guide out there. Separating fact from opinion is the first step in hopefully getting people to feel better about the market...or at least not want to spit on you. And I really don't want to explain why marketeers don't care about common salvage (or whatever) 100 times.

I know I've also seen Nethergoat denounce the lazy/impatient a million times and it'd be nice to get his valid point down in an objective and informative manner so it doesn't piss so many people off.

D

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Never forget, they are pissed off already. The ones who aren't post differently and learn.

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There's a considerable amount of emotional investment involved in people's antimarket stances. Also, many people are bad at math and don't trust it.

I've been thinking about making a defensive marketing guide, something like "how to avoid making me rich" , but my current belief is that my target audience would rather spit on me than listen to anything I have to say. I may let optimism sway me at some point.

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I haven't seen any sign that the market haters have been willing to listen for 2 years. Oh one or two have come around and realized the truth but most have continued their blind mindless rage at the amounts they see on the market and have to blame other players for it no matter how many obvious examples show it's not ebil marketeers buying the items at the highest prices.

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Why do people still play blueside again


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Because I enjoy it.

I can't stand the layout of redside zones. The lack of any variety whatsoever in contacts, especially low level - and VEATs didn't help there at all. (Wait, you gave me ONE mission as my "arc?" WTH?) The lack of any alternate path to level.

Blueside? Atlas or galaxy - KR, or the hollows - Steel or Skyway, with a wander into Faultline if you so choose - Talos, IP, Croatoa, Striga, FF, Bricks, Cim, RWZ. Mix and match. If I want moody and dark, I can hunt in Kings and DA and play in Croatoa, then Bricks, blow up spawns in Crey's. Wide variety of TFs and trials.

Redside? Kalinda/Mongoose or Burke/Creed. Yay. Again. Newspapers, Bocor-Heck-Vandetti. Radio. On to Cap. Gah, Wheeler the Whiner? PVP contact. Go see Marino (running back to Mercy - yes, you can take the helicopter line, I know.) Oh, brass again. *snooooooooze* All this in what looks like a city that hasn't had trash collection in decades, and being an "old town" is laid out like utter garbage. Then, for some reason, you roll another and, with all the choice you have... do the *exact same series.*

Even the contacts I *enjoy* like Naylor, Television and Von Grunn get very stale when you've done them so much. Might be why I keep *getting* more 50s blueside - one of each AT, including epics, and two each of Controllers, Defenders, and Peacebringers, with a second Blaster a level and a half away. Redside, I still have to get a corruptor and any VEAT up there - I'm just *bored stiff* with it, even when it comes to ATs I enjoy like doms.

That doesn't even TOUCH on "Oh, look, more Longbow. More Arachnos. Hey, what are we fighting next, Arachnos or Longbow? Freakshow? Must be a bug. They must mean Longbow."

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That's why I like the 30s the best. Carnies, Freaks, and Wailers galore.

Yeah, red side can be a bit too streamlined. That's why I flop around between various levels, ATs and sides of the game to keep it fresh. Even blue side too much of Faultline gets old.

The dom secondary is where you get your punch. If you use the primary you won't see them fall over. Of course you will need to slot the secondary for damage as if it were a blaster primary.

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Man...tell that to my buddy that I duo with....


He hates RedSide...and he isn't even a Dev O.o
:P


Actually, he loves it but hates the lag he gets over there...he swears it is only redside that he gets it...


Is redside on a seperate server? I can't figure out why its different for him...

/shrug

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Different zone design and graphics cause some systems lag red side but not blue.

When CoV came along I had to reduce my settings from the max to recommended to work red side. When I got my new machine last year I was able to crank it back up to the max.