StrykerX

My take on MM primaries:

Mercs are probably the weakest set, but that doesn't mean they are worthless. Mercs are all ranged attackers so they tend to be easy to control and you can keep them gathered up within buff / heal range. However, they do Lethal damage, which is heavily resisted, and don't really have anything special going for them other than some controls (stuns and immobilizes) that are on very long timers. Well, they do get a Medic that can heal, but he's not that great at it. Mercs can be good once you IO them out, but you need Achilles' Heel procs in the pets to make up for their heavily resisted damage type.

Necromancy is the control set. Most of the pets are melee, so they're a bit harder to manage, but they have self heals and debuffs so they can take care of themselves somewhat. The Lich is almost a pocket Controller... it uses holds and fear powers as well as accuracy debuffs. Soul Extraction summons a temporary pet with even more debuffs and controls. Necro / Dark is such a powerful debuffing combo it makes Dark / Dark Defenders jealous.

Ninjas deal tons of single target damage but tend to die if you look at them funny. They're great paired with a heavy debuffing secondary that can actually keep them alive, but are otherwise squishy. They are also by far the hardest pets to manage, since they are not only melee, but also have enhanced running speed. Your ninjas can and will run off and aggro another group two hundred feet away if you aren't careful, and they're so fast they can do so in a couple of seconds. They do hit very hard if you learn how to handle them though.

Bots are slow starters but extremely powerful late game. They do mostly Energy damage, which is one of the least resisted types. They are also very tough, since they have some innate resistances and the Protector Bots can heal and have bubbles that act like both Force Field bubbles combined. Slot the Protectors with a couple of Defense SOs and they give about 12% defense per bubble... which is 12% on you, 12% on the Protectors, and 24% on the Assault Bot and Drones. Bots are slow at low levels since they have no AoEs, but once you get the Assault Bot they speed up a bit. Then you hit 32, get the second upgrade, and suddenly all of the bots have powerful AoE attacks that do Energy or Fire damage. After that they tear spawns to shreds. Since the Protector Bots will also bubble the Mastermind, Bots are the best primary for Tankerminds... pair them with Force Fields or Traps and you can soft-cap your personal defense with decent IO slotting. Those sets can also soft-cap the Bots' defense if you add a defense aura IO and Maneuvers.

Thugs are a bit squishier than Bots but even more damaging. They get AoEs earlier, and even though they do a lot of Lethal damage they do so much of it that the higher resists don't matter as much. They also get the Arsonist, who does massive Fire damage over an area (and also dies a lot from all the aggro). The fun thing about Thugs is that two of their pets actually have class abilities. The Arsonist is a Corruptor, so his attacks can Scourge. The Bruiser is a Brute, so he gets Fury and has resistances. He also does Smashing damage and gets Foot Stomp, so Thugs have three different damage types well represented. Finally, the Enforcers get Leadership powers that enhance accuracy, defense, and damage on all nearby Thugs, even those belonging to other Masterminds. Thugs get Gang War, which summons a horde of weak minions that do minimal damage but generate a lot of aggro and tend to distract the enemy... and Gang War accepts Recharge Intensive Pet sets as well as normal pet sets. That means you can slot both sets of resist and defense auras in it! If you take Traps or Force Fields and use both defense auras you can have your whole horde of Thugs with soft-capped defense, and Dark or Storm can do effectively the same thing by debuffing enemy accuracy. Oh, and Thugs gives you dual pistols... can't forget the dual pistols.

Overall, I love Bots and Thugs. Especially Bots, though that's as much for aesthetic reasons as anything else... killer robots are cooler than gang members. Laser rifles are also cooler than dual pistols to me. If you want a strong, easy to use set I'd play one of those two. Mercs are also easy to use since they're all ranged, but they're not as strong. It's not so much that Mercs are that bad, it's more that Bots and Thugs are that good. Melee pets are harder to use and take more practice, especially Ninjas. Though if you really like Controllers I'd say try Necro / Dark... the sheer amount of debuffing and fear that combo puts out is incredible.

Make sure you /bug it. And don't use it intentionally... the devs get annoyed at exploiting bugs.

Though this does make me wonder... if you had someone time Recall Friend exactly right, could you fire off a two mile long Golden Dragonfly?

Fire/Mental and Plant/Rad? They must be awfully good at dual boxing then, because those are both pretty active sets. I'd go with Fire/Mental or Archery/Mental and a Kinetics Defender SB-bot myself... put the Defender on autofollow with Transfusion on autoattack and tap Speed Boost every time it runs out and you're good to go.

Hmmm... I already have a suitable Archery/Mental, and getting a Kin up to level 15 wouldn't take long... I may try that.

Being Natural origin also means that once you get the additional veteran reward attack (I think it's at 57 months but not sure) you can have bonus damage on both the Nemesis Staff and the Blackwand.

Oh, and the Origins of Power arc for the Midnighters will give you extra information on your own origin, so be sure to run it at least once with each origin if you want to see all the info.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You didn't know it because it isn't true. Fireball checks your aoe def if you are the target or within range of the target.

[/ QUOTE ]
This

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that was how it works. I know you can skimp some on AoE defense since ranged AoEs usually don't hit nearly as hard as single target attacks, but I'd think you'd still want pretty good AoE defense since they do still hurt and every second you spend using your heal is a second you aren't doing damage.

My opinion of the secondaries:

Dark has great debuffs and control plus a heal, good for boosting survivability of squishy pets or making tough ones nearly unkillable.

Force Field is fantastic for boosting survivability and for tanking, but the lack of debuffs makes for long, slow (but safe) fights.

Pain is best with tough pets, since squishy ones (like Ninjas) can die too fast to heal them. Suppress Pain plus Bodyguard is great for tanking though, so you can go that route to keep the pets alive.

Poison is great for soloing AVs but lousy on teams. It's full of powerful single target debuffs, so it doesn't do well against groups but it wrecks single targets. Goes well with Thugs since Noxious Gas is practically made for the Bruiser.

Storm is a great set for adding damage and keeping the pets alive. Hard to play well, but devastating if you get the hang of it. Probably one of the best sets for soloing.

Traps is probably the best tanking secondary. You get defense and status protection like Force Field, but you also get debuffs and an AoE regen buff for tough fights. Pair it with Bots for insane personal defense if you want to tank, or with Thugs to produce untouchable high-damage pets (not that Bot damage is bad either post-32).

Trick Arrow has nice debuffs but their recharge is a bit long. Works best with good global recharge, though you can just alternate between debuffs on every other spawn since dumping them all on one group is usually overkill. I personally prefer Dark or Storm for debuffing and Traps for general use, but some people swear by TA.

One simple rule to keep in mind... buff sets work best with ranged pets that will stay grouped up in the buff radius, while debuff sets are a better choice if you use melee pets. The best way to keep Ninjas alive is to use Dark or Storm to insure that everything is either terrified, knocked down, or debuffed into the middle of next week. The best way to keep Bots alive is... don't go AFK in the middle of a fight if the enemies are more than +2s. Unless you're Bots/FF, then you can go AFK on +3s just fine.

If you are /Energy or /Mental you can always slot Kinetic Crash in Power Thrust or Telekinetic Thrust for the KB resist (and +recharge if you slot six) and free up a pool for Fighting (which will let you take Weave to help soft-cap). Any primary with a knockback attack can do it too.

I've noticed something odd on my Fire/Psy. When I am solo and attack something like a destroyable object or an enemy who has wandered a bit away from his buddies I can normally aggro only him, as long as I use only my single target blasts and Char. But, if I use Ring of Fire it often causes the nearby enemies to aggro at a longer range than my other single target attacks.

Does Ring of Fire generate extra aggro or something? It seems odd that using it aggros nearby enemies when using my other single target attacks in the same situation does not...

(It doesn't always do so, but it definitely seems to frequently alert guards or other members of a spawn that are not alerted by anything else.)

I'd imagine SS/SR can solo AVs, the big concern is endurance. Smashing damage is fairly resisted, so fights will be long, and you do have that Rage crash killing your DPS for 10 seconds and also draining endurance. I suspect you'll want +recovery uniques and heavy endurance slotting but as long as you get to the point where you don't run out of endurance (the 10 second break during the Rage crash will actually help there) and you softcap defense you can do it.

[ QUOTE ]

2: You don't need to worry about Targetted AoEs (like fireball) because as long as the target is you the targetted aoe attack will check for ranged defense not aoe defense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? This I did not know. So AoE defense is only useful for avoiding splash damage and PBAoEs? Thanks... you just saved me some inf if I ever finish IOing out my Bots/Traps.

I wasn't actually suggesting no debuffs at all, I just assumed that ATs with debuffs tend to have less DPS (even with the debuffs applied). A Rad or Kin Defender can really boost a team's damage output, but a Blaster's blasts are so much more powerful than a Defender's that the Blaster hits harder solo, even after the debuffs are applied. A Sonic/Kin Corruptor might actually be a contender thanks to the +damage and -resist, but I'm not sure even that compares to a Fire/Electric Blaster. Debuffs from IOs and secondary effects are fine... or even from debuffing ATs if you can make a case for them matching a pure DPS AT's damage.

As for Masterminds, my experience with them suggests that they can't match an ultra high recharge purpled out Blaster or Brute in raw damage. They do dish out a lot, but the inability to boost the pets' attack rate is a killer. I don't play Ninjas though, so maybe their higher single target damage would make a difference.

Incidentally, the reason I started this thread was that I was reading about soloing giant monsters and was wondering if any build could beat their insane regen without regen debuffs. I didn't bother with survivability because IOs can do wonders there... I wanted to find the top DPS builds, and leave working in enough defense, HP, and regen to survive the attempt to someone rich enough to attempt actually making one of these uber-builds. Which is not me...

Really? I thought a lot of AVs had AoE attacks. Are they mostly PBAoEs rather than targeted AoEs?

(I've never tried fighting an AV on a squishy without a Tank or Brute holding aggro...)

Well, I looked back at the damage values and it turns out the Mastermind attacks are weaker than I thought. They're significantly less powerful than the Assault Rifle attacks, so I guess requiring a pet is understandable.

So... how about this instead?

Devs, can you make two new MA only powersets for Dual Pistols and Pulse Rifle? Just copy the three Mastermind attacks, and adjust the damage to match Assault Rifle. The sets would only have three powers each, so they'd always be Standard difficulty, but that would still let us make laser gun or dual pistol toting enemies that are just as challenging as Standard rifle users.

(Or better yet, flesh out both of those sets into full player sets and give them to Blasters and Corruptors. I would love an energy rifle wielding Blaster. )

Regarding difficulty settings, a lot depends on your power set choices. If you have a lot of area effect attacks then the second and fourth settings are great because they give more enemies per spawn. If you have high single target damage, the third and fifth settings are better because they give the same number of enemies, but at higher levels.

Personally, I'd go with a Brute if I was new. Masterminds are great, but they start out slower and are a bit trickier to play. With a Brute, you just run in and smash stuff... it's fast, fun, and very quick to level. Just be sure to slot for accuracy and endurance at low levels... you get most of your extra damage from Fury rather than enhancements, so not missing or running out of endurance is the important thing.

My suggestion is to go with a /Willpower Brute. They are good all-around characters, and Willpower is a "turn it on and forget it" defensive set that lets you concentrate entirely on smashing things. For a primary, you can't go wrong with Super Strength... it gives you good single target damage, some protection in the form of knockdown, and a fantastic AoE once you get to level 32. Dual Blades is also a lot of fun, though Dual Blades / Willpower is a very tight build since you'll want almost every power from both sets. The main thing is to pick something you find fun, because getting to 50 a little faster isn't worth not enjoying the trip.

I've not gotten on Test yet, but from what I hear there are now customizable power sets for MA critters, but each set has one or two powers that cannot be removed. And apparently for Masterminds, one of those is the first pet. Is there any real reason for this? Yes, player Masterminds have weak attacks, but as I understand it all the MA power sets use the same damage scalar, regardless of what AT they came from. That means a minion with Pulse Rifle Burst and Pulse Rifle Blast should have exactly the same damage as a minion with Burst and Slug.

Why do I care? Because the Robotics set is the only way to get minions with laser guns. I really want minions with laser guns. Not laser guns and robots, just the lasers. Please? Can't the Masterminds' required powers be both single target attacks instead?

Is there some reason a MA critter with only the Pulse Rifle attacks (or only the Dual Pistol attacks) would be too weak when an Assault Rifle critter with only Burst and Slug is fine?

[ QUOTE ]
Because someone asked: No, you can't make petless MMs. Most of the sets seem to have the first two powers required, which in the case of MMs is a pet and an attack. However on standard MMs seem to get the pet and two attacks, it's still a wussier MM.

[/ QUOTE ]

ARGH!

Devs, if you're watching, please, please change this. One reason I've been looking forward to being able to customize power lists in MA is to have petless Robotics MM minions... in other words, guys with friggin' laser guns.

Make the first two attacks required instead on MMs, please? Since they use the critter damage scale instead of the MM damage scale they should be just as good as minimum power Assault Rifle, only lasers.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Roger that. hmmm. Can a fire blaster chain blaze/flares/fireblast/flares/repeat?

[/ QUOTE ]
You can, but the melee attacks are better DPA with the exception of Blaze.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the most extreme recharge builds can chain Blaze -> Fire Blast -> Flares with no gaps. That's probably the highest pure ranged DPS you can get, though adding melee can push it even higher.

It's looking like the absolute king of single target DPS is probably a perma-Hasten Fire/Electric Blaster if you ignore survivability. The question then becomes can you get that level of recharge while still adding enough defense, regen, and +HP to stay alive solo against an AV or giant monster (since anything less doesn't need that kind of DPS)?

I'm saying solo because in a group it becomes pretty simple. Multiple /Kins plus an 850% damage cap = absolute carnage, so take whichever Brute has the best DPS chain at capped recharge (probably Stone or Fire), add enough /Kins to cap damage and recharge, and watch the fun. Likewise, adding a FF and a Sonic makes survivability a non-issue for anyone.

The thing to keep in mind is that at a certain point you have all the survivability you need. A Blaster needs a lot of set bonuses to be able to go up against an 8-man mob, while some Tanks can do it with SOs. If those Tanks invest in the same defensive sets as the Blaster, they can now... still tank the same mob, since it's already at max size. Yes, if you are trying to solo the ITF you need insane survivability, but for the average farmer, AV soloist, or general mission runner you have a point where you can survive pretty much anything thrown at you.

The real question is, how much room do you have for damage boosting sets after you get your survivability. That's where Scrappers and Brutes have the edge over Blasters in the billion-inf game... the Blaster can't get as much +damage and +recharge since he also has to worry about softcapping his ranged defense. He also can't necessarily use his melee often unless he invests heavily in melee defense too. Defensive Brutes and Scrappers need a lot fewer sets to softcap, and can then focus on recharge, recovery, and so forth. Resist based melee types don't even need to softcap, they just need some +regen and +HP and they're good to go.

For solo DPS, you need three things:
<ul type="square">[*]A very high DPS attack chain[*]Enough recovery to maintain that attack chain indefinitely[*]Enough survivability to not die in the process[/list]
Working out just which power set combinations do that the best is not simple... which is why I made this thread instead of just looking at Mids.

[ QUOTE ]
Claws/Regen + Plant/FF

Claws has pretty decent AoE by that point, and Regen has Quick Recovery to keep the pace up.
Plant has Seeds, which is up every fight even at DO levels, and FF gives the scrapper a HUGE boost to survivability.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too bad that's a duo, not solo.

If I was going to go with a duo, I'd use a Fire/Energy Blaster and a Kinetics Defender. A Speed Boosted Fire Blaster would shred most spawns, and /Energy would give Build Up. Add in Transfusion and Siphon Power and the Kin wouldn't even need to use any blasts... which means it would be a nice setup for dual boxing.

For true solo, I'd prefer Archery/Mental though. It has a better low-level attack chain without recharge boosts. Especially if you're using a real level 15... Fire might be better with a purpled out 50.

Why Fire/Elec instead of Fire/Fire? Electric gives you a damage aura and Havoc Punch (Thunder Strike's activation is a bit long), but /Fire gives you a stronger damage aura, a melee attack with almost as good DPA (Fire Sword), and Burn + Ring of Fire, which should more than make up the difference. Electric does have Power Sink, but if you have the inf for this sort of high-recharge build you can afford the +recovery uniques.

(I'm assuming that Power Sink and Lightning Field alone can't fully drain a mob's endurance... if it can, the survivability might be worth it.)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are not supposed to be able to solo AVs on any AT anyway, its a team objective, that said some can do it easier than others but such is life.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT, if an AT can't solo PToD I don't think it is broken, if an AT is having trouble soloing mishes on villainous/heroic then I would think there is some room for improvment

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that a lot of missions at higher levels end with an AV, which gets downgraded to an EB if you are solo. But even on Villainous, these EBs still have the PToDs... which means they are almost impossible to solo without dumping a full tray of inspirations or using temp powers.

Not that this is a huge deal... Blasters can say the same for most EBs, purple triangles or not. At least after the damage boost Doms can use the Blaster method: pop Lucks and Enrages and kill it before they wear off.

I was thinking solo, sustained DPS... specifically against archvillains and higher. In particular, I was wondering if it's possible to actually outdamage a Giant Monster's regen without debuffs, or failing that, who can take out AVs the fastest.

I know debuffs help a lot, but I was looking mainly at the pure damage ATS and they don't get many. It looks like Fire/Shield and DM/Shield are strong contenders since they can keep a crowd of minions around them to buff their damage (and survive all that aggro). I wonder how a high-recharge Stone/Shield or Fire/Shield Brute compares to the Scrapper once you figure in Fury?

[ QUOTE ]
Blasters peak too early. Or to put it better, they look great at first, then become Vengeance Bait by end game. they do enouh damage to attract attention, don't do enough to protect themselves, and have no defense. They've been at leaqst tossed a small bone with mental manipulation as a secondary, because all of the other secondaries just suck. I hate blapping, I want to blast, but the game and especially the secondaries doom someone who wants to play a blaster, not a squishy, defenseless scrapper.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try Archery / Energy. You get great fast ranged attacks, a fast recharging, crashless nuke, and Boost Range, which not only lets you use those attacks from longer range, it also increases the range of Fistful of Arrows, which is a very nice cone attack. Sure Energy has melee attacks, but nothing says you have to use them... Boost Range and Power Boost are reason enough to pick it. Though I'd still grab Total Focus... it tends to make anything that does get in melee range very sorry it did so.

Boost Range is an almost 60% range increase that is easily made permanent. It's a great power for any pure-ranged Blaster. If you want some real carnage, pair it with Assault Rifle's Full Auto and watch a 125 foot cone attack in action.

/Ice also has some handy features, like a massive cone slow and a knockdown patch. Really, the only Blaster secondaries that are completely melee-centered are Fire and Electricity... and those offer ways to survive in melee. Electricity has endurance drain, which in the case of Elec/Elec can actually shut most mobs down, and /Fire has... well, the ability to kill a hazard zone sized spawn in a few seconds. Dead mobs don't hit very hard...

Will it still be worth it to go permadom? Depends on whether you consider mez protection, the ability to hold bosses in one shot, and a full endurance refill every 60-90 seconds worth it. It certainly will be for me...

Siphon Speed is handy at low levels. It and temp travel powers are enough to get you to Inertial Reduction, which is a much better travel power since it doesn't require hitting a mob. Also, Inertial Reduction plus Combat Jumping is great fun... it's non-suppressing Super Jump with better air control, and you keep the immobilize protection. Of course Siphon Speed is handy too, and combining it with Inertial Reduction gives incredible combat maneuverability plus a recharge boost so I'd take both eventually.