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Quote:Indeed. My primary point was I found it confusing that you would call Shockwave a melee cone.The "can [...] be modified by" criteria is a good one. However, using it makes only one change to the list and it is utterly irrelevant to my point. It removes Claws/Shockwave. It doesn't do anything to move Shadow Maul out of the group comprising the smallest cone attacks in the game, melee or otherwise.
Quote:I'll restate my general position regarding Shadow Maul in Dark Manipulation: It's a mediocre power most comparable in value to Combustion but also close to Thunderstrike and Total Focus. I like the latter two better because they satisfy a tactical role for a Blaster that's harder to fill than "more melee damage against small groups". In my opinion, Shadow Maul is a weakness in Dark Manipulation, along with Death Shroud, not a strength.
Death Shroud is an unknown (OK, Shadow Maul is an unknown as well, for all we know they buffed it in some way to make it more worthwhile). If it is a direct port (or worse, a nerfed version like Blazing Aura) then it will be a terrible power. If it gets the Lightning Field treatment, I think it will be OK. -
I feel the need to clarify this even though I realize Colossal knows this and hinted at it in his sentence. Darkest Night does not taunt enemies. It will generate some aggro, but in my experience using the power, allies who damage enemies I have in the Darkest Night's effect will get the aggro instead of me. So while it is mildly helpful with aggro generation, it is not reliable like Dark Obliteration (or Fire Ball).
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So Repulsing Torrent, with the exact same size as Energy Torrent from a ranged blast set should be considered a melee cone because it is in a melee set? Powers with a range of 30 feet also should be considered melee cones because they are in a melee set? Is Lightning Rod, with a 60 foot range, a melee attack too? What about Shield Charge, it is not in a melee set, but only armored ATs can use it?
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Now that I have read the thread:
Mirror Spirit is fabulous, as is Flower Knight.
Noble Savage. Yes. Very good. Oddly he is like Black Scorpion for me, but opposite, not quite enough armor. I like them both, but I think something in-between those levels would be good as well.
Numina - Gah. I knew I would forget someone. Her costume is fabulous, we need an unfaded version in game sometime.
I actually like some of the various phases of Fusionette. Huge, unbelievable pig-tails pushes the limit for me, and I know her costume is stuff we can just whip together on the editor, but I like how she was made and I like her formal wear outfit as well. -
Rather than reading the thread, I am just going to respond, that way I am not influenced by other posters and just say what I think.
Ghost Widow, flowing, pale skin, dark costume, the contrast, she is wonderful.
Ruladek and Lanaruu and Faathim. The first time I did Sarah Moore and that last mission is still one of my fondest memories.
Ms. Liberty. The colors, the Liberty Bell, the folded gloves and boots, a simple mask. Love it. Dominatrix is equally as good. Sometimes it is good to have elegant simplicity.
Statesman. Cool helmet. Good Cape. Big star. Classic, timeless, and compelling.
Recluse is great. Right down to his simple firearm, I think he screams self-reliance, while also building a powerful organization to support his goals. Personal strength and a "simple" gun, but science experiments and body attachments. His costume perfectly matches his dichotomy (and it just looks cool too).
Neuron (the new one). The backpack plugged into the brain is great and I like the small detail on the bottom of his back. Sleek costume for a sleek villain. I am not sure why he is gray though. I think it may have emphasized his general loss of humanity more, by keeping his skin a human color.
I have always liked Positron and Antimatter. That suit is well done, although I think some of the new armored suit pieces are better, I like the general concept.
The carnie AVs. Giavonni and Vanessa are both great.
I like Interrogator Kang and Cheif Interrogator Washington. A good mix of trenchcoat detective and PPD armor. Marshal Brass was decently done as an Arachnos contact as well.
The new Nightstar is great. Malevolent robot oozes from that design.
Nemesis is nifty. Steam stacks and piping. Brass plates and ornate designs. Pneumatics to move the fingers and a fabulous face.
I like Scirocco's costume, although he is oddly thin, with almost a feminine shaped torso (which seems off to me, he seemed like he should be more dashing, rakish and rogue-like instead of wasting and feebleish).
I like the idea of Black Scorpion, but his concept went a bit too far for me. Large powered armor is cool, but a bit more toned down than his would be good. -
Quote:That is off the mark for FSC. AoEs are about damage per activation, not damage per animation. As much as the nerfed cast time of FSC still pains me, the very high damage output it yields far exceeds virtually all primary, every spawn AoEs. Fire Breath and Flamethrower are the only ones that beat it, and only by 10 and 20 percent. Meanwhile, FSC is dealing 60 to 80 percent more damage than most other AoEs. Frost Breath and Electron Haze are the only others that come close, with FSC only beating those out by ~16%.As for your last point there, Strato, I think you could say the same of virtually all secondary aoes for blasters. None of them look good compared to primary aoes, even the crowd-favorite PSW and FSC.
The AoE size does matter though, and the primary AoEs do beat out FSC in that category by a good amount. I do not think it outweighs FSCs superior damage punch, but that is not an objective argument. I think lining up Fireball and FSC is easier than lining up two cones or one cone and a spherical AoE, but that is also not an objective argument.
Quote:There is no distinction in the game engine between a "melee cone" and a "ranged cone".
Huh? The time it would take to line up GD for more than 2 targets will far exceed the time it will take to do the same for Shadow Maul. Don't quibble. It is impractical in play to hit more than 2 enemies with any of the 4 powers under this discussion. You know this and argued the point yourself. Even under ridiculous farming circumstances, hitting more than 2 to 4 people is unlikely. I also find I hit 2 targets more often with Shadow Maul than I do with GD, even when multiple targets are available (obviously, I still use GD in my single target attack chain, but will often forgo SM, due its poor performance single target, so I can't really measure my GD vs. SM objectively, any stats I have will show Shadow Maul blowing GD away when comparing percentage of use vs. number of targets hit, just because I freely use GD knowing I'll only hit 1 target, but SM uses are more frequently targeted to try to be AoE). -
Quote:I agree with Adeon. It was not to stop people who had been hoarding shards from quickly getting the next set of abilities. It was to make them do the incarnate trials in order to get the next set of abilities. Speed of acquisition did not play into the decision to add the next tier of incarnate currency.Adding the threads didn't stop people from grabbing the next set of Incarnate abilities at warp speeds.
However, I have always thought Shards should have been eliminated when threads were introduced. Arcanaville made a good point about why that won't work as cleanly as I had once hoped. She followed it up with a simpler version as well:
Quote:If we changed standard content so it dropped threads instead of shards, if we also converted the shard recipes into thread recipes people who actually did the trials could completely fill Alpha in the blink of an eye, because they earn threads faster. If we don't and we force those players to use the normal thread recipes their ability to earn Alpha would drop dramatically, because those recipes require more threads than the shard recipes require shards.
To put it another way, if we drop threads everywhere, then either standard content people earn threads way slower than trial players in which case they will be stuck earning Alpha much slower than trial players, or standard content players will earn Alpha about as fast as trial players, and that will mean they can also earn everything else equally fast, since threads are the single currency. -
Quote:I agree with that. It really is late game where blasters lose out. Lots of attacks is quite a benefit early game.Actually the gap just widens the more resources you can throw into a character.
Quote:Blasters got bent over with the alpha slot, and as far as I can tell got the least benefit of the ATs maybe masterminds or khelds did worse but I doubt it.
Quote:With the higher difficulties in the trials blasters fall even further behind, unless you have built a blaster for positional defense you're defenseless as almost all the damage is either energy or psi. Building a scrapper for positional defense means using marginal sets sacrificing recharge and generally achieving a less damaging less survivable scrapper.
My Fire/Earth/Ice Dom with capped Sm/Le defense does not have extra issues in the trials due to the lack Psi or positional defense. My ranger Fire/Fire/Force blaster with mid 30s ranged defense is not any more capable than my melee Fire/Fire/Flame blaster with 47% Sm/Le resist and gobs of +regen.
I am really not understanding your point about scrappers. My Invuln scrapper, who has lots of "typed" defense on top of the other stuff Invuln has, seems to work fine. But I have seen SR and Shield toons work great in the trials as well. I guess you can lose some recharge by not slotting Crushing Impacts, but Oblits are popular to add to melee defense and you get recharge in those. -
Quote:Again we arent talking level 50 blaster incarnates with purples coming out of every orifice.Quote:Nevermind the fact that what the heck does any character need more than 5 or 6 attacks for anyway, you dont have enough animation time for any more than that.
Recharge is hardly an issue later in the game.
It is often wise to make use of blaster melee attacks when teamed. Many teams are great at providing all the support one would need to be a pure offense character. Also, one can take many attacks and choose not to build for recharge (although taking only the best attacks and going for recharge is generally optimal, I do not think you truly need optimal, you just want worthwhile).
Even solo, many blasters can easily make use of their melee attacks after applying a control of some sort (you know how it is, "melee attacks itself is not the problem, dominators are fine").
That is arguable. It is entirely possible that hordes of people are drawn to the blaster AT because of its fragile nature. People may enjoy playing an AT that actually relies on allies to assist them into transcending what they can do alone. As with any discussion revolving around fun, opinions vary.
One of the current design elements of the Blaster is that they will die more than others (or at least have more close calls). Without a team to support them they have big drawbacks. Is their offense worth all that trouble? Meh, they are close enough that it likely does not matter. It is not like buff/debuff characters stop buff/debuffing when all the blasters leave. "Oh this team has no blasters, everyone stop using cold shields and no more need for Sleet or AM or Darkest Night."
I have never been on an all corruptor/defender team that only used their blasts. So if armored toons are going to draw aggro anyway and buff/debuff toons are going to buff/debuff anyway, blasters will likely be able to blast and smash just fine. -
Quote:Thank you for the clarification. You did indeed overstate your case (and are continuing to do so). It is only ridicule if you think that requiring no thought to play is something to ridicule, a point you seem to waffle on a bit, so you have some conflict on this issue yourself. Even the "easy" stuff in CoH has some challenge. It is just a matter of degree, you are calling it unchallenging, but that is not wholly the truth, they are challenges, just very easy to overcome challenges.Well, large parts of COH are unchallenging, so there is at least one game. I consider Diablo 2 to be largely unchallenging outside Hell difficulty (which I never play).
As for your taking the point to the extreme of me just wanting to push a button and watch a slide show, that *is* ridicule. But I dont mind. Have at it, hoss.
Quote:I prefer foes that I can crush with an SO build without thinking about it. And then I build for permahasten or def cap to make it easier. I like to be able to just run into a bunch of foes with scrapperlock and come out on top without too much effort. Oh and when I do have to deal with gated/difficult stuff I jump on my friends team where he 7-boxes and everybody on the team has 150 defense thanks to the five to seven bubblers on the team.
Quote:Now if you want to ridicule all of that, well I can see that. But I dont have any desire to press a button and just watch a movie for 2 hours. I do like relaxing and crushing my foes with minimal to moderate effort. If you see them as the same thing well then you may as well move on. Nothing to see or understand here.We are simply from different worlds.
If you have to choose a certain order to press buttons and if you have to expend minimal to moderate effort in order to succeed, then you do actually want a certain level of challenge. It may be a low level, but it is not totally without challenge as you originally suggested. -
Quote:I agree that SM is one of the smaller melee cones. But your post has some oddities.I'd say any cone with a melee attack type vector for defensive determinations is a "melee cone". Which includes Shockwave (Claws version), btw, but not Repulsing Torrent, Breath of Fire or Throw Spines.
With that definition of "melee cone" only Head Splitter, Golden Dragonfly and Cleave have smaller areas (5.6 sq ft versus 6.1) and they all have double the target cap at 10 vs 5. Jacob's Ladder has a slightly wider arc of 50 degrees (making it 11% larger) and Shatter is 1' longer (making it 31% larger).
The smallest non-melee cone is Fire Melee's Breath of Fire at a mere three times the size, and with twice the target cap, of Shadow Maul.
So Shadow Maul is arguably effectively the smallest (considering both area and target cap) cone attack in the game.
Is there a phrasing error in your first paragraph (or have I misread it repeatedly)? How do you conclude that Shockwave is a melee cone, but then consider Throw Spines or Breath of Fire as ranged? Sure, the game inexplicably calls Shockwave a melee cone, but it has the same range and cone arc as Throw Spines and accepts the same Targeted AoE IO sets. Meanwhile, Breath of Fire you firmly lump into the range category, and while it also accepts Targeted AoE sets, with its much smaller size, it could be argued to just be a big melee cone (this power has its own unique terminology even, calling it a Close Cone).
Also Head Splitter only has a 5 target max. Even though both Golden Dragonfly and Cleave improperly retain their 10 target max, suggesting it as a benefit after eloquently arguing that it is impractical to get more than 2 people in Shadow Maul is goofy at best.
All that being said, the more I think about it, the more I realize that the pros for Shadow Maul fade rapidly when taken out of Dark Melee and when placed into the hands of a blaster. Shadow Maul works in Dark Melee, because where else are you going to get an AoE power? Its only real benefit is that it is a cheap, fast recharging AoE. In Dark Melee, that is actually quite a large benefit. In a blaster set it has to be compared to all the other AoEs they could possibly get. In that context, Shadow Maul is quite bad. -
Quote:Variety is the spice of life. I'll keep my ability to blast and smash, slice, kick, hack, etc. Changing the entire concept of the AT at this point would be a terrible error.The problem with blasters is having the most ridiculous secondaries in the game.
Having a primary of damage and a secondary of damage is so beyond comprehension its just amazing.
Violate the cottage rule and redo the secondaries to include some defensive and more auxiliary powers and get rid of the stupid melee attacks, take away the crash from nukes, and low and behold blasters might get useful.
I definitely think the crash should be removed from nukes.
If that playstyle is not for you, there is nothing wrong with your solution.
Quote:Till then Im keeping my blasters shelved, blasters off my team and sticking to playing corruptors.
Quote:Let me just say this, if any other AT took 2 powers from their secondary they would be laughed off a team, but this is close to the standard for blasters, they often pass up nearly their entire secondary to stack defense from pool powers. No AT should be skipping big chunks of their secondaries for pool powers. -
Quote:I am trying to think of a game that lacks any challenge and I am failing. Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both.I dont really like challenge in any game, be it difficulty or in terms of having to leverage all the tools I have at my availability. I prefer to be able to just kick back and relax.
Please note, I am not ridiculing you, but I am instead trying to understand what you are saying. I believe you may have overstated your intent. Read the following as a real inquiry with no tone other than questioning.
Dressing up your character may be art, but once you choose to start pushing buttons in a specific order to achieve certain goals, you are engaging in a challenge. Would you rather just push the space button and have your character display awesome animations while you move through the game on rails, with scripted encounters where you will always win, even though some of those fights may be close? That sounds more like a movie than a game to me and I think it would fail to hold many people's interest for long. -
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Quote:Absolutely. After seven years, things have finally changed and it is all thanks to you!Thought I'd post an update. Sense I first started this topic I've noticed there has been more and more people in game using the proper name "Empathy" rather than the usual people using the "Healer" term. Could it be that one of my topics on the forums is actually making a difference in the player base or am I going insane from the lack of sleep in the last 3 weeks?
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Quote:I have 2 of the +end procs (my APP is Earth, so I do not have PP). I have not really had any issues with end drain outside of the IDF, but Drain Psyche hits with enough recovery debuff to totally shutdown my recovery and while I do not recall if the missles totally shut it down, they do not help. Normally I can ignore my blue bar, therefore I normally ignore my blue bar. With attacking and my toggles, ignoring my blue bar in the Lambda proved to be unhealthy. A few blues and paying attention mostly solved the issue, but the Ageless solved it better.How does your WP get in danger from end drain? On my WP scrapper, if any of the -rec/-end powers do land, I have 3 +End Procs, and Stamina/QR working to keep any of it from being a real threat.
It is possible the difference is just that being a tanker I purposely try to get those negative effects on me instead of on others. It is possible I run too many toggles (I do, but I kind of like my build so I leave them in). It is possible Energy Mastery makes the difference. I also have just the base slot in Stamina (with the proc); QR is 3 slotted, the proc and 2 Efficacy Adapters. All of those combined are the likely culprit for why it was a problem for my build. -
Quote:To be fair, the OP defined challenge as something good. If it ceases being good and liked, then for the purposes of this thread it becomes frustrating. The whole point of the thread is to discuss the fact that some "challenges" are not good and to see where various people draw those lines. So while your statement is true, it is not revealing or meaningful as the entire premise of the thread is based on what you said and what you said was in the OP, just phrased differently.As an aside, it's interesting to see the whole topic, and many answers, are constructed as if a challenge was automatically something well done, entertaining and rewarding. There can be good and bad challenges, and there even can be people who don't like being challenged at all, period.
Your challenge was not to rephrase the OPer, but to add your thoughts and specific examples that demonstrate the point you mention.
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I rarely find challenge in solo play. Occasionally, as I am learning a character I may find myself thinking, "Hmmm. Had I used X power (or inspire or tactic) I would have handled that better. If I see that again in the future, now I know." But normally I do those things by instinct anymore, it just comes from playing the game for so long. It kind of boils down to the same thing you said; I try to use all my tools to keep me playing and engaging enemies. I do not like when a power sits unused, thus why my characters with RotP will die, because if I am not dying, what was the purpose of choosing RotP? I usually set my difficulty slider to the point where I have to use all my tools, but where hospital runs/awakens are rare (but not totally gone).
Normally, I like teaming. Finding out how best for each character to interact with others is great. Even the same players will make different choices or play different characters on each run. Running content while teamed is a huge part of why I can repeat content. Each time is the same, but different enough. Usually each mission/encounter will have a few areas where I can be excited or embarrassed about some of the powers/tactics I chose to use, where I can be impressed or horrified by something a teammate has done, or where just some really cool graphical thing happened due to a combination of powers/positioning.
Seeing a potential bad situation and preventing it before it even gets close to being bad is enjoyable. Seeing that same situation and making the bad happen to see if we are up to it is enjoyable. Causing spawn collapse and watching as a team just hits the perfect spawn melt is fabulous. Needing to pick off scattered spawns that failed to collapse (or were scattered) is occasionally amusing. Assessing the capabilities of a team and trying stuff you think is likely beyond it can be fun, but it is also nice to sometimes choose to stay within safer boundaries.
Perhaps the truest challenge is finding joy and fun in a variety of circumstances. Rather than needing a narrow window of performance and playstyle, for me, playing in a variety of ways is usually what I like. There are some edge cases where I have difficulty. I have played on some teams that stopped between each spawn, not to roleplay, but to talk about tactics for the next spawn. I have trouble finding the joy in standing around not playing and discussing what, IMO, should be the obvious way to handle the next spawn. But I have stuck it out in those situations, trying to see what others might find appealing (and failing). I also have been on teams that were the opposite, not strong enough to blindly charge, but not smart enough to realize it. I usually will stick it out on those as well, although normally we eventually find a method that keeps the team moving, albeit at a slightly slower pace (but at least still moving). -
Quote:It is only easy because of how slow you play. That is no problem, you should play in whatever way is fun for you. But 2 hour STFs make my eyes bleed. The perfect plan and formation for each spawn nauseates me. You should understand that those of us who like Fallout, Vengeance, and other such powers are having fun and almost everyone we play with have fun this way as well.and the reason for the limits is because this game, by and large, is too easy
Yes, constant death would be annoying and frustrating. But constant pauses between spawns is even more annoying and frustrating for some people. -
Quote:I will repeat the argument in favor of Shadow Maul once again (and expand a bit). It does not pay any extra endurance or recharge time for the fact that it is an AoE. I also think it has a flaw in its damage/end/recharge ratio in its favor even if it is treated as a single target attack. Now, I cannot say what happened when it got ported to blasters. Perhaps they fixed those "problems" and made it a truly sucktastic power. If they did, I will be lining up to complain loudly. If they ported it faithful to its armored ATs version, it is a fine power (they never fixed those issues when it was ported to brutes and tankers, I do not see why they would now, but one never knows). Sure it has all the drawbacks of any long animation power, but it does have pros in its favor, just like most other long animation powers.The other 3 are also mediocre powers. I don't really see an argument in favor of Shadow Maul versus any of them either, making it probably the worst power in the class.
Ice Patch also has a long animation and while it can be used out of melee, it is often used in melee.
Some people have wanted to believe that, but it has never been true. Once they ended up on the idea of having Archetypes, Ranged/Melee has always been the concept. Some small utility was added for filler and flavor. Gadgets fell into the blaster realm due to a lack of anywhere else to go. I imagine they had some trouble making a good pool power grouping of the gadget powers (and pool powers is where they really belong). -
Which is why these sets have solid bonuses, but are not better than other rares and are less then some other sets. They are interesting sets, but not more powerful than what you can get from playing. The enhancement boosters may be a concern, but they sound like small tweaks as well.
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Quote:Until RoA recharges in 12 seconds, you never have enough recharge.Thinking either Barrier or the one that protects you from Mez.. I dont want the one that heals.. and I have enough recharge and recovery as well.
TBH, I'd think Rebirth would likely be best. The big heal every two minutes on top of a gob of regen that works great in combo with Caltrops and Explosive Arrow is hard to walk away from, likely much better mitigation than Barrier will give.
Do you get mezzed a lot? Do you find you just cannot carry enough break frees to get you through most stuff? If mez is a common problem, get Clarion. Otherwise, I guess go Barrier. -
Quote:Considering that the blaster AT is designed around a Ranged Damage/Melee Damage concept, they better not be short on secondaries focused on Melee Damage. Secondaries that are different, should be in the minority. I am glad some secondaries have options for non-melee, but I never want blasters to abandon their basic concept of Ranged Damage/Melee Damage.Anyway, I have to say that looking at that power list brings one thought immediately to mind. That thought is "bleeeuuuuggghhhhhhh." Dark manip isn't even uniquely melee focused or anything, it's no more so than fire or elec for example, though it hardly could be, but were blasters really short on all-melee-all-the-time secondaries? No, they were not.
Quote:Shadow Maul is an awfully long animation to be locked into in melee range on a Blaster.
It hurts, true. Especially after playing my Blaze Mastery scrap or Mind/Fire dom who still get the good Fire Blast (of course, only two of my Fire/ blasters still have that power, one I almost never play, and on the other it is mostly a set mule and something to use while mezzed). -
Which control set gives 6.25% recharge that you would replace? Edit: I should say which control power would you slot this in and which set would you replace?
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Actually, the -regen is reduced to meaninglessness by most tough, single targets. Where the -regen may come in handy would be against Lts. and bosses, but in general the Reactive is much more likely to be useful in those cases (offensively). You choose Diamagnetic not for the minor offense boost, but because you want to inflict -to-hit on standard spawns (and once again, the -to-hit is generally reduced to being meaningless against tough, single targets).