StratoNexus

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I would assume the sonic build would always keep 4 or 5 stacks of -resist
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I made a bit of numbers and if you are fighting pure minions or lts, the defender may actually pull ahead against even level foes

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The only issue here is that it doesn't take that many attacks to kill even level lts., much less minions. By the time you stack your 5th blast on a lt., he is probably also dying (maybe that is with Aim up though).

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You've probably seen one's where they pop pbu first and do a metric ton more burst damage than the corr, but over time the corr is a bit stronger.

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No, the builds were identical as far as I recall. It very well may have been team damage being boosted though.

Turbo Ski said:
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If the idea was that defender +Dmg/-Res is supposed to fill the gap some between corruptors and defenders in damage, it fails heavily.

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Well, corruptors are supposed to out-damage defenders, so I expect that to be the case. I wouldn't have been surprised if an outlier or two existed where a defender build might be able to outdamage a corruptor one, but it certainly should not be the norm. Defenders buffs/debuffs being better is more team useful.

A lot of people have stated that corruptor buffs/debuffs, while mildly lower in performance than defenders, still get the job done. That pretty much has to be the case. You wouldn't want to design an AT with the expectation that they have functional buff/debuffs and then allow them to fail to get the job done.

So here is the current case:
Corruptors solo fine (even without exclusively building for it); for a team they bring good buffs/debuffs, and good damage.

Defenders bring great buffs/debuffs and low damage to a team. Soloing experiences vary enough that while I enjoy my defenders, I have to believe a potential for improvement exists. Many of the more reasonable solo defender builds have to make sacrifices in their team powers.

My personal biggest gripe is not time to kill, but endurance to kill. Increasing damage will help my end to kill issue, but I'd rather them keep the slower pace, just with less downtime.

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unless you can magically maintain 8 total stacks of sonic blast -res debuffs 100% of the time, a Rad/Sonic defender will NEVER deal the same damage Sonic/Rad corruptor does. The post I was replying to was claiming that defenders have the potential to do the same damage as a corruptor, which is just no where close to being true.

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You may be right. I thought I had seen posts where players took identical Sonic/Rad corruptors and Rad/Sonic Defenders and demonstrated that the defender outdamaged the corruptor due to the better buff/debuff values. I thought it was solo performance, but I may be misremembering, perhaps it was in a teaming situation, where the better debuffs amplified the whole team's damage.

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Before this you're a low damage Defender with a wonky heal that works in melee range and jousting using Siphon Speed as your best defences.

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I don't know. +25% or +50% damage is pretty impressive in the lower levels, when your slot poor and enhancements are giving out minimal help. It has been a while since I solo'd a low level Kin though (and the last one I did was a corruptor anyway). Giving out SB at level 12 and your team never needing to stop again is too good for me to bother soloing.

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So how many GL clones will there be at launch?

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Don't even need rad blast for that! Energy Blast tinted green would probably be a better fit.

I think the Performance Shifters in Consume are a good idea, the extra hitpoints and some more movement speed (including Jump Height!) will help. I need the Touch of Death's instead of the Mako's for the extra +Damage, as I am already full up on +3% damages. Adjusted build below.

I hit level 37, and I am starting to feel the crunch of the baddies. I need to do some fancy footwork and use more inspires than I like to carry on in some fights. I am glad that RotP will be here soon.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/



Blue Pyroken: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Weapon Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Achilles-DefDeb(43), Achilles-ResDeb%(43)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(11), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), ImpArm-ResDam(40)
Level 2: Flashing Steel -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(3), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Oblit-Dmg(15), Oblit-%Dam(37), Achilles-ResDeb%(46)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal(17), Dct'dW-Rchg(37)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Divine Avalanche -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(9), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(9), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46)
Level 10: Build Up -- AdjTgt-Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(42)
Level 12: Blazing Aura -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-%Dam(13), Oblit-Dmg(13), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(23)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(17), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), ImpArm-ResDam(40)
Level 18: The Lotus Drops -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg(31), Oblit-%Dam(31)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(42), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(45)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 24: Consume -- P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(25), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(25), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(39), P'Shift-EndMod(42)
Level 26: Soaring Dragon -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(27), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(27), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), LdyGrey-%Dam(29), Achilles-ResDeb%(31)
Level 28: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 30: Temperature Protection -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A)
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(34), Achilles-ResDeb%(37)
Level 35: Burn -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Rise of the Phoenix -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Caltrops -- TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(A), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(45), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(45), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(46), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Tactics -- AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(48), AdjTgt-ToHit(48), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]

• 30.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 30.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 30.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 30.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 30.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 30.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 30.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 30.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 3.75% Defense(Psionic)
• 4.5% Max End
• 45% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 32.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 4% Enhancement(Heal)
• 10% FlySpeed
• 135.5 HP (10.1%) HitPoints
• 10% JumpHeight
• 10% JumpSpeed
• Knockback (Mag -4)
• Knockup (Mag -4)
• MezResist(Immobilize) 8.8%
• MezResist(Stun) 8.8%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
• 11.5% (0.19 End/sec) Recovery
• 12% (0.67 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 1.26% Resistance(Fire)
• 1.26% Resistance(Cold)
• 1.26% Resistance(Energy)
• 1.26% Resistance(Negative)
• 10% RunSpeed

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Edit: I realized you might have meant the damage you dealt the towers, not the repair dudes. Not sure. People were finishing it with teams based on +Dam and -DR, so enough raw DPS probably would do it too. If you had run it before, though, I think you would have probably noticed the difference.

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I ran the STF shortly after the bug went live when we were still unaware of its existence. I was tanking that run, so I was not at the towers to observe what was going on, but it was certainly noticeable that it was taking the team longer than expected to drop the towers. Complaints about the repairmen by the tower killers were made, but that occasionally happened before, so we just shrugged it off figuring the repairmen were getting lucky.

We've done the STF a few times with the bug, and I have observed the repairmen behavior closely since. While it is noticeable that they are getting more heals off than before, sometimes they still wouldn't, even without a KB effect. I have seen on live several examples of repairmen spawning, dying, and failing to get off a heal as well as them spawning, dying, and getting the heal off anyway.

While on the scrapper STF, we would drop the tower to half extremely fast and then slowly take down the 2nd half. At times, our damage output basically would get stalled, as we would damage it, and then it would be healed back up. Then something would happen and the repairmen would fail to get a heal in four / five / six spawns in a row, and we would work it down during those "lucky" periods. The behavior did not seem different than the bugged repairmen, but since it is inconsistent, I would not say either way conclusively.

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Simply a buff to damage with no teammates around and you lose it with teammates nearby, but gain a powerboost effect.

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Right. So I log into the game and am able to do X damage.
I join a team and while near teammates I do X - Y damage, but I get some nebulous, mostly invisible effect.
Knowing all the other benefits defenders get on a team (the ability to use your powers on teammates as well as yourself in addition to whatever they bring), I love the idea even without the powerboost effect.
Despite my love of the idea, I am 99.9998% sure we are never going to see them add something to the game where merely being near teammates debuffs your damage.

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except that Fire once again pulls way ahead.

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Heh. I guess the DoT really makes up for using an AoE every ~8 seconds. I figured Archery, Energy, Psi, and Sonic would pull ahead of the others due to the lack of needing to hit an AoE power.

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I generally shy away from changes that involve a buff in one state only to be removed in another. But defender team damage is more than adequate once you factor in their forcemultiplication, it is only solo they could use a bit more.

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While I like the idea, I am 99.9998% sure we are never going to see them add something to the game where merely being near teammates debuffs your damage.

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Sonic/Rad corruptors deal 28.67% more overall damage than Rad/Sonic defenders.

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If they choose to only use one attack vs. a target. What happens if they chain attacks and stack even more of the Sonic -res debuff? I know most players would only attack with scream and forgo other attacks, but just in case someone goes crazy and also uses Shriek and Screech.

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I would rather see a damage buff to the team for defenders simply being on the team. it'd be a cool inherent. 5% global damage for team if a defender is on the team. Every additional defender grants a 1% bonus. Tweak the 5% and 1% to reasonable values (my numbers are a stab in the dark). I'd like to see that.

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Because defenders are so lame on teams.

Kin/Elec is a great combo, IME. Short Circuit + Transference and bosses are rendered impotent. Fulcrum + SC + BL is nice AoE damage. Elec lacks a tier 3, but so does Dark, so that is a wash. Elec has Aim and VS. IF you can remember to use VS, it is very helpful. If summoning the damn thing every minute is too annoying, it is much less helpful. That is a playstyle thing only you can figure out, but even without Sparky, Electric works well (My Kin/Elec does not have VS, but my Emp/Elec does, I have not taken it yet on my Elec/Fire blaster, haven't made up my mind yet if I will). The lack of a tier 3 blast is mostly made up by using Tesla cage early in order to eliminate the most dangerous foe before you even start to fight.

Thunderous Blast is a great nuke. Its best advantage is totally removed on a Kin though, because you will want to get into melee for FS first. Pop a blue and then transference right after though is nice.

My Kin/Dark is lvl 18. My Kin/Elec is 50. I really like /Elec for defenders.

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You know, it's funny to me that I started a thread to discuss these exact same issues and was told I didn't know what I was talking about.

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You didn't. That doesn't mean there aren't potential problems, just that you did not know how to talk about them. Your difficult experience was more predicated on inefficient build and playstyle choices and had little to do with any potential issues defenders might have (if a lot of people were to try to build and play defenders as you did, that would, however, be a problem as well; I think that is unlikely).

You might have trouble opening a drawer and conclude there is a problem with the drawer. But if you were pulling up on the drawer instead of out, you might be wrong or you might be right. Someone would have to try to pull the drawer out in order to know.

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tl;dr version- stop trying to confuse my prejudices with facts.

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Isn't the discussion around who will play corruptors vs. who will play defenders all about prejudices? I doubt 18% more damage vs 12% more support vs. 3% more hitpoints vs. 6 levels sooner on certain powers really key in on it.

If someone wants to make a buff/debuff, they will lean defender. If they want to blast they will lean corruptor. The color of the loading screen probably has more influence on the decision than all the facts people try to present.

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SO....

All Scrapper rikti raid on Sunday at 7pm EST?

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I have an SG event at 3 PM, but its a Rad/Ice defender Moonfire TF, so that should only take an hour or so.

I should be able to show up for a Rikti raid Sunday evening. Start gathering at 6 PM has worked very well for the previous two events.

I get it now. I calculated defiance as I went, assuming you had none at the start. Figuring out the defiance buff as if you already went through the chain once makes much more sense for a DPS calc (which is about the long haul). Thank you for the explanation and the work you are putting into this, very neat.

Have you done a DPE comparison? That would be interesting as well.

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what damage?!"

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In I5, there was lots of it, you just had to slot for it. Slotting for 1 Acc, 5 Dam and controllers could blow out single target damage at a great clip. ED brought it back into an area where I thought it made sense again and the Epic attack reduction brought it below where it makes sense to me (just the single targets, reducing the AoEs made sense to me). Granted, losing three Singularities hurt my damage quite a bit, so I am not saying most controllers came out ahead even in I5.

In the end, they took all the damage away, really, leaving just the reductions in control. I do still like the way controllers play, but I do miss my 3 Sings.

I'll never forget, in I5, taking down a +1 Rkti boss (Soldier) in 15 seconds, on my Grav/Storm, sans pet. I stopped playing my controller, because that isn't why I had made him (my own fault, really, for switching to the blaster-like build).

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I didn't use those. Those are Player99's. I used my own numbers for all of the calculations that I posted.

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Ah, I understand now. Could you post a slightly more detailed indication of your methodology. Using your previously posted chains, I am calculating different values. Perhaps break down one of the chains for a reference.

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Those correct numbers were being used for the results. Fire is just that crazy thanks to Blaze.

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The charts (the ones that break the forum) list Fire Blast damage as 92.6, but the real average should be 84.72. Blaze is listed as 188.9, but it should be 170.5. I did not check any of the others. Perhaps there is something I am missing?

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The only ones I know of that do that are the Fire DoTs that are due to Fire Blast's and Fire Melee's secondary effect DoT. I don't believe there are any other percent chance of occuring DoTs.

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The toxic DoT from Spines and Thorny Assualt act the same way, cancel on miss.

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whats everyones rikti plyon times?

i soloed a rikti plyon on my ice/energy blaster for a time of 5 minutes and 2 seconds. anyone got better?

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That is a great time! My best is 7 something, and I used inspires to get that.

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Still nothing about an STF fix on the Tower repairmen on the final mission.

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That's because it's already fixed, isn't it?

People did an all-Scrapper STF this last weekend and reported no problems with that.

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Well, we weren't truly sure. We had a crap ton of damage on that team and did everything we possibly could to minimize the power of the repairmen, since we figured it was still bugged. Whether the bug was fixed or we were proactive enough to counter the issue is unknown.

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Well, that was the presumed method, but i'm interested in actual hard numbers for the outcome.

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You want someone to calculate the damage output of 6 AI controlled pets and one player controlled defender vs. 5 AI controlled AVs (one of which summons many pets of its own). How exactly can one do that when you never know what the pets are going to be attacking?

The model to try to figure that out would be so complex, you are probably better off using the model that has already been made... in other words, play the scenario in game.

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I was riding the fine line between victory and defeat the entire battle. It took me about 5 minutes.


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the only time I was ever in any kind of jeopardy was when I missed the Chief Mezzmerist with Forcebolt, Repulsion Bomb, or Torrent and he hit with his sleep and supressed my toggle defenses. Fortunately one of the other Rikti was always kind enough to wake me up and restore my defenses.
...
The RWZ challenge took me 22 minutes on my FF/Dark/Dark.

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Good to know. I'll probably never be patient enough to do the RWZ challenge with my FF/Nrg (aren't Rikti resistant to Sm and En damage anyway?), but I may still have end trouble with +2s, which is more my concern. It will be interesting. I may run the Gaussian arc on Unyielding with no temps/no inspires as a good test though, I really like that arc anyway.

The added safety of the FF seems like a good trade over the course of a mission so far, with the exception of my endurance troubles.