StormyDarkness

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What this thread has boiled down to; oranges taste better than apples because oranges are orange.

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Don't forget those who say apples are tasty because they are apples are wrong because oranges are better. Other than that, right on the money.

Who knew that two sets with two very similar powers could make them automatically set in stone that one is better than the others and everyone else is wrong because of it.

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I openly mock the people who broadcast that they are a "healer".

/b "WTF is a "Healer"?"
They respond "What kinda question is that? I heal people!"
"So, that narrows it down to a Dark DEF, Rad DEF, Storm DEF, Kin DEF, an Emp DEF, a Kin 'troller, a Rad 'troller...... you get my point?"
"Im a Empath"
"Empath WHAT?"
"An Empath defender"
"Have some self respect. A good EMP does much more then just heal."

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I do that, but on the other side. Mocking people asking for healers for their teams. It tends to be a fun little thing of "Sure, I've got an Empath. Don't know what this healer you speak of is."

There's something about AE farmers and the lack of understanding that green numbers is only a mitigation of damage already dealt. Empathy has more than just heals, and they end up getting a lot more powers than just the three heals and a rez. Anyone who doesn't understand that should be taken to the side and taught. Anyone who still doesn't understand it should be shot.

People complain about the a lot of things, but saying that green numbers are the only thing that matters with defenders is silly. Only thing I'll give people is Statesman or LR TFs, other than that get over oneself and take up other defenders or the like that can do more than heal. I mean, I know the ITF is so hard without an Empath...

I'll know my schedule for next week today. I'll let you know as soon as I get any info on it.

A lesson well learned hopefully. Then again, I get in a huff when people complain about KB. Sure, I could have my SK'd level 12 Earth/Storm using her mass immobilize for damage, or I could use a fun chain of Quicksand, Snow Storm, and Gale to keep my Ice Tanker, 2 Shield scrappers, and Energy Blaster safe from an entire group, holding the ltn or bosses that are hard or at range constantly. Nah, O2 is much more potent on an effective level 18 on level 19 Tier 5 difficulty.

Sure, it might not go perfectly to plan 100% of the time, but hey, I like it when I can stop 60% of attacks or more by stopping most melee attacks, and keeping ranged attacks at a minimum. Pretty much what I didn't KB is what my team took out first. Sounds like logic, something that most AEs seem to be lacking. This is one of the major reasons I do not do AE teams. My Defenders and Controllers have better teams they can deal with.

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Hilariously, in the new bubble farms, heals are completely useless.

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Tanks are pretty worthless too, as defense isn't required.
It's really sad to see that level 50 Scrapper or Tank that doesn't even use their multitude of toggles.
It's... almost depressing, actually. But Fire/Kins found a new niche, haha

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Bubble farms truly are a sign the game is playing hopscotch over the shark.

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I hate it when games simply jump the shark. Hopscotching is so much more fun!

Heh, I have friends from out of town in town now. By all means feel free to have a session, but I don't know how busy I'll be. They most likely will not be here Thursday. Not sure about Tuesday.

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AE has created a new generation of noob,

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I'll sort them out for you dont you worry

*gets me noob zapper* Lock and load!

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About time! Keep up the good work!

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Empathy, as it stands, is the best healing set. It has three heals, and a rez.

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Highest number of powers != best. Especially when two of the powers, HO and AP, are kind of crummy and redundant. (AP being the crummier of the two for defenders, HO being the crummier of the two for controllers, playstyle-dependent of course.) And the rez isn't that great either--Howling Twilight, Power of the Phoenix, and Mutation rez and so much more, Empathy Rez is more of a slightly nicer version of Resuscitate.

Empathy is hella good at regen buffing though, and for teaming with squishies, especially squishies with moar Empathy. Also curiously good at tanking if you're weird like that.

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I'm not saying it's the best defender set, nor that it doesn't do regen or recovery buffs per AB and RAs, but it's like attack chains, you can cycle through them and if someone has spike damage or you allow the tank to sap some health away while you blast, Absorb Pain is great. Otherwise I tend to call it good of Healing Aura, for the team having light damage, and spot Healing Others when needed. The fact they have three heals, in comparison to the one or two (in the case of Thermal), means that it can get better heals out.

If you are asking who's the best healing set, Empathy is the best in comparison. Do I think this is the best or only defender method? No. Do I believe that a Empath sitting and rocking the aura and not buffing via Fort, AB, or RAs is a good Empath, much less Defender? No. You have 9 powers for a reason, if you're not using them, why have them? Play something that you'll get more millage out of.

Healing isn't the only form of mitigation, and I highly recommend to anyone to take those other forms and use them often. However, I also tend to offer the suggestion to take the healing power, in case the stuff does hit the fan. However, when Absorb Pain can heal 1.5 times (I'm not a number person, so I don't know exactly) more healing, then have two more healing powers, it is much better at healing in comparison.

As for rezzing, it's just one more insurance policy. Even when healing, stuff still happens and people drop. Sure, Dark's Rez is technically the best, in my opinion, and there's nothing wrong with any of the other rezzes; however, they don't have the other three heals to back it up.

So as far as sheer green numbers are concerned, Empathy wins. Do I think there's a lot that can be done across all power sets to reduce (to a great degree) the amount of healing needed that one heal power is all that is needed? Yes. Give me a group of 8 Defenders/Controllers any day and we'll hardly need any green numbers. The only times green numbers are *needed* are when things start to hit the fan. No one can really stop those moments, but I don't think that means you need an Empath for those moments. Most of the time, spamming any of the other heals will work just fine (naturally while doing something else during the recharge) during those crunch times.

I disagree with the need for Empaths on teams and that Empaths should only heal, but don't disagree with Empathy being the best at healing compared to the other power sets. Sure, give me a whole lot of Regen and Defense, and I'll be happy. Just don't discount Empathy's actual healing power when the idea of healing power is in question.

I've recently started him up, and have been kicking tail with him. Mostly solo, but on teams as well. I was wondering, is there something that I need to watch out for or the like as I level him up, or any powers that may look better than they are? I've done Mind Control twice, one to 50, the other is 26, but as Controllers. So this is mainly directed at Ice Assault, but anything that doesn't gel between the two sets would also be appreciated.

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I do the same thing. If I have a slot to spare, an Empath is a wonderful insurance policy. I'm not so arrogant as to pretend that everything always works perfectly and we'll never need heavy healing.

Edited to add:

Seriously. Empaths are wonderful for when things go wrong. I won't take an Empath before a Bubbler if our team for some odd reason is devoid of other Defenders, but if there's an empty slot an Empath is good way to round out any team.

It's the difference between a team that goes "woo, we just barely survived that" and moving on, and the team which wiped. Then that team has to spend 5 minutes listening to some control freak Rad or Kin telling them they died when everything went because they didn't act as good puppets should. They believe as if everyone has nothing better to do then make sure they're doing whatever their flavour of Defender wants them to do, and nothing could POSSIBLY go wrong if everyone would just do what they say when they say it.

Anyone who starts that "You can't take a healer!" crap gets kicked no questions asked for exactly that reason. These people are of no benefit to the team unless everything always runs smoothly. When something goes wrong, these people are the first to whip out and load up the blamethrower.

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Just to hit a few points on this post.

Yes, stuff does happen. However, knowing that stuff can hit the fan and getting a character for if/when that happens seems to be poor planning in my mind. Sure, a good Empath can contribute to a team, as mine does. However, the *need* for a healer with 3 characters already able to do a heal of some sort means that the fan hitting healing need is covered, unless you are over pulling aggro consistently or just a really bad time.

From when I've ran team, it always seems to be maybe once or twice per two or more missions (roughly three or four). Roughly being the key word. Sometimes it is more on having a large group of the team not working with each other. That being said, if a couple people are KO'd for however long, since some power sets can heal in mid battle and several sets have self rez, just refocus yourself and carry forward. It's been a long time since I've had a pug team be completely wiped without a major team goof, to which it's everyone's fault to some extent.

Defenders with shields are useful, but they also have other powers in their set to help keep the team safer or work more effectively to have the enemies drop faster (Got to love the ultimate Debuff... death). The one's without shields have even more of this safer or quicker philosophy. Dark's to-hit debuff, safer. Storm's Freezing Rain, quicker. Each defender offers something not completely unique to the team. Several power sets have shields, several have +recovery, heals, etc.

Empathy, as it stands, is the best healing set. It has three heals, and a rez. However, it has other things to it as mentioned above me (posts, not quote). If an Empath is only using the heals, then they aren't doing as much good to the team as they could be doing. That's at least my philosophy when I play my Empathy/Psi. With teams that only need the buffs, and since they are long recharge times, I use my Psi blast for controls, as soft or hard per power. On teams that need my ability to heal more readily, I do so. It's based on your team's needs. A team with a kin, a sonic, and two rads are probably not going to need my healing; however, I'm still going on strong with my buffs if my Empath is on my team. On another defender, I'll go about with what the team needs me to do.

I don't complain about dying, mostly because when I play, regardless of the character I'm playing, I'm aggressive. Should Defenders be aggressive? That's up to personal tastes and the Defender's ability to control their aggro. If I manage to get killed, that's alright. XP debt won't last forever, especially now with Patrol XP. Plus, if it just happens I push too hard near the fan for myself, then that's my own fault. Sure, there's bad players of all the ATs, but that doesn't mean that even on a good team that stuff can't hit the fan. Does this mean a Empath is needed? I don't particularly think so.

Have I ever turned down a Defender from joining my team? No, unless the team was already full. Regardless of their power sets, Defenders are useful. I mostly get annoyed when you get the tanks that yell for sb or if it does hit that the team didn't have the heals focused on him. To me, it is a team effort, we all live together or all wipe together. Sure small hiccups happen, since it's on a random generator for to-hit rolls and the like. Sure, you can have a tank that's soft capped defenses, with a Empath back up, and if all the enemies roll really well, the tanker is still going to fall down.

The only thing that gets me is the puppet comment. No one is a puppet in my mind. Play as you go, roll with the punches is my general motto. This means, when I play my Empath, I don't yell to gather for RAs, AMs, or the like, I will toss anyone who demands SB to the wolves, and I don't call out my anchors. Sure, they may fall, but it'll recharge and I can toss it onto onto another target.

Do I ever blame another for a wipe, especially in the chat? No. Stuff happens, that's life. Sure, the blaster might of gotten a second group, the tanker might of missed a boss when getting the aggro, or the defender/controller might of miss prioritized their buff/debuffs at the wrong time. Anyone shooting off blame for basically anything will be told to stop, then after that will be kicked from the team. Defender, Controller, Blaster, Scrapper, or Tanker, I don't really care. We're on a team together having fun and enjoying ourselves. As soon as that stops happening, me as team leader, needs to fix it. If that's giving strategical advice for a certain pull or kicking a person from a team, as the leader I'm not afraid to do so.

Edit: Somehow I ended in the wrong thread...

Re-edit: Oh... this was the right thread. Nevermind my previous edit.

Alrighty, new schedule time: Looks like I don't work Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday in the upcoming week. If anything changes, I'll give a shout here.

Quick Edit of schedule: On Sunday, I'm supposed to get off at 8 EST, so ideally we could do stuff after that at like 8:30... or I could just you guys a bit late. Just an idea.

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epic lawlz

that would be considered OOC

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Unless you're a reformed or current Freakshow >.>

My issue with it, mostly, is the fact that most of the people who want to take the effort to get in the global chat tend to be really good and nice players. As such, when I'm forming a task force or team via VLFG, I know I'm getting quality people. As a second note, if it is only server wide AE channel, then I can have VLFG open for stuff going on in Virtue. The flip side if it's not server only, then I'll hear all about Protector's ITF that's going on that I have no use for.

As such, I'd much rather have the global channel.

I'll have my schedule for next week tomorrow. Saturday is a no go as I work 4-11pm EST.

Oh, those wanting to RP with Kismet or Summer. We're both currently ICly MIA. So yeah, some of you who hang out at the SG base a lot would probably notice Kismet not sitting with all the book being stressed that he can't find answers.

To me, Double XP means one of two things: start up a new character and see how far I can get him that weekend, or that I can actually get my 30 somethings up and maybe to 50.

However, I'm all for live DJs the entire night, especially since my probable play time is going to be post 10pm CST.

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Also, if it ever gets ported, I'll start Sonic/AR instantly.

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Kin/AR is what I'd do... but this is a thread jack >.>

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No point in trying to argue with these two "believer" types, logic and facts mean nothing against their belief that they are right.

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@Turbo-> ??? Seriously, this from you? You ran away from the previous argument thread a month or so back because you didn't know the difference between sleet and FR and thought they were the same numerically. There's little point in having an argument with someone who's more interested in winning than debate, and that pretty much describes your 'discussion' style.

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Is it just me or do my post get brushed under the carpet for no particular reason. I'm a defender of the non-power gamer mentality. Not everyone is happy until they have their over powered creation that can do everything while eating a bag of chips.

The reason I don't number crunch is because I want to play what is fun, and what is fun to me. Could it be less powerful than a corruptor in terms of damage? Sure, but that's not what's important to my play style or what I consider fun. My Corruptors are fun along with my Defenders. I've yet to feel gimped for playing Defenders while on a team.

Soloing? Not a particular fan of it, otherwise I'd not play either AT and would play something like my Fire/Shield scrapper who's point is to duo with his MA/Shield pact partner or solo if I'm in that mood or simply can't find a team. Is my Fire/Shield scrapper over powered? Not really, it just lends itself better with my play style with the powers it has compared to Corruptors or Defenders.

I think my post might be ignored for either their clarity so there's nothing in question, or that they simply don't help the other person's cause in the debate so they simply ignore it or try to dump it one way or the other. I really don't know why, but if it has to do with making sense then I'm at a loss. If it has to do with not making sense, I'd gladly try to be clearer next time. If it's because I believe fun is more important that number crunching, then I guess a difference of opinion, which makes a discussion, is too much for some to bare.

I understood what Turbo has been saying; I just disagree. If that means that I'm a faulty "believer", then so be it. A difference of opinion is what makes humans human. We aren't borg, and I've stated several ways of addressing the issue if Turbo really believes it is a problem that isn't just poking every thread that comes up and saying "Defenders need to deal more damage." It makes her just repeating herself in every thread without being proactive about it.

Regardless of my opinions, I'm here to help. If someone really believes that way, it should be brought to more attention than camping out in threads started by others and poking the Defenders need more damage argument instead of actually being helpful with the discussion at hand. We get that you want more damage on your Defenders, if I got more damage I wouldn't complain about it. That's being said, I don't think it's completely necessary. However, just because two people have a differing opinion, doesn't mean that I, personally, am abandoning logic and facts. I find X fun, so I play X. If I didn't find X fun, I don't play it and delete it for Y since I enjoy playing Y. This is the logic and facts I am using, and for a game, this is what matter.

Heck, when playing Crainium, me and my mom are eager to pick sculpting. Why? We find it fun and are good at it. For games, winning is fun, but what is fun is fun. If you get through playing a session on a character that isn't fun to play? Why keep him? Does it matter how much damage the character does? If that's how you define fun, then yes. Each person's definition of fun is different. If the simple logic of "people are different" makes me a "believer type", then so be it. I'm enjoying my characters regardless.

Let me double check and make sure my reasoning and deduction skills are still up to code.

Not attempting to steer people from Defenders. Well, Corruptors are vastly superior to Defenders when comparing numbers. If you could, you'd ditch all of your Defenders for Corruptors. Also, Defenders have pathetic damage. A logical person would conclude that you're saying Corruptors are better. As such, are pointing them in that direction.

Play styles are identical. Sure, my personal play style of being aggressive is the same. However, each of my characters play differently as priorities get stacked differently. I could toss out this debuff which, though helpful, doesn't compare to my attack. You also have when things come into play. Sure, you can wait on certain powers and eventually pick them up, but what is more important to you, the player. People's priorities change from character to character. Sure, if you want damage, then Corruptors are the way to go. However, some want the debuff/buff more than they want the straight up damage. People's personal preferences are play styles. That's why if we both had identical characters, we *could* play them differently. It's a very rare occasion when I met someone with the same play style as me. Even with the same build, we'd probably play them differently, because we are two different people with different experiences. When talking straight up reverse primary and secondary, what a level 26 Rad/Rad Defender will be different from a level 26 Rad/Rad Corruptor. That is, unless all you are doing are level 50 things. Then again, Corruptors and Defenders have different epic pools which offer different things to the player. Saying they are identical play styles and what they bring to the table is incorrect.

As per my opinion, it's also your opinion that they are not balanced. As far as damage is concerned, they might be. However, the numbers help you see the differences between them. If you truly and honestly believe that a few post back and forth with me will make the devs snap to attention and make the Defender into a Corruptor, then I doubt it. If you don't believe it's equal, that's your opinion in what matters to you and what you consider more fun. Fun is indeed subjective, and in a game having the options of playing what's fun to you is available. Do I find your talking about Mass Murder and Law and Order comparable to the difference between Defenders and Corruptors and what people consider entertaining to them on a game sane? Not really, but in my own vein, that's your own opinion and I'm not here to dock it.

As far as playing it to know, the reason I knew the difference between Sleet and Freezing Rain was because I've played both and could see and feel the difference. Playing 1-41 on a Defender and 1-41 on a Corruptor, I noticed a difference. I noticed the lack of debuffing from my powers. I noticed the buff from my powers. I noticed the damage out put from my powers. Do I think that knowing the difference makes me dislike Defenders more in favor of Corruptors? Nope. Did it make me think that Defenders are fairly in balance to the rest of the ATs? Yep. They offer different things at different times which places things into what people prefer.

Defenders should be balanced to Corruptors. Do I think Defenders need to be Corruptors or the other way around? No. They are different ATs for a reason and offer different things. If I wanted to have my characters be X, Y, and Z, then I'll play towards the AT that offers that. That's why they are different play styles.

When was SyFy created?

What is it?

Round 3 of Stormy's IO Give away is about to commence.

Madam has stated she prefers to play Defenders. Fighting with her about numbers between Corruptors and Defenders when she says she simply has no interest in the former, doesn't make her wrong.

I'm saying that I prefer my debuffs to overall help the team in a different way than damage. I personally am fine with having lower damage, get my attacks slower, and have greater debuffs/controls with my secondaries. I still use my secondary, and slot it up. Slotting them up for damage, may or may not be productive for a defender.

I'd rather have more debuff/control with my secondary to help the team overall than straight up damage. Sure, they don't solo as great, but they contribute. My Sonic/Dark defender adds to the resistance when they get hit and adds to their defense by giving to-hit debuffs in AoEs. My Mind/FF and Emp/Psi can control the battle field and mitigate damage.

I gave the OP my suggestions on what to do to make their damage higher if that is what they want to do. It's their choice on how they want to go about it. If they wanted to capitalize on the slows of the blasts, there's nothing wrong there. However, that's only going to make their damage capabilities lower. It's based on play styles. If people are wanting the higher damage, sure go play a corruptor. Do I, as a player and contributor to the team, need the higher damage? No.

As I've said before, if it's really that big of a balance issue between the two, bring it up to the devs or make your own thread about it. Having every thread that I read boiling down to "Corruptors are better" is rather annoying to me. I've made the comments that there's a difference in play style between the power sets, and if there's a large mechanical reason why one is better than the other, than it needs to be addressed by either lowering one or raising the other. If there's a major difference between any of the ATs, it should be addressed. I, however, don't feel like it's a major issue.

You are making the loud argument that because Madam doesn't have a high level Corruptor, means she doesn't have a leg to stand on. However, I have a level 41 and 33 Corruptors and am backing up her point of enjoying Defenders on how their play style is going from 1-50. The point of the game is to enjoy one's self. If you don't enjoy Defender, by all means, don't play them.

If you have a legitimate basis behind yourself, take it to the devs about it. Complaining every step of the way when someone mentions damage isn't productive. Be proactive by approaching people who can do something about it and have a thread that's dedicated towards it. Make it more visible. Coming into a thread and saying that when Going Rogue comes out that you'd gladly delete all your defenders for Corruptors isn't exactly visible nor helpful.

I state this mostly due to the fact that I have played a Corruptor and Controller past level 12, which seems to be the only thing you are complaining at the other person who's saying anything that you're not. There are people who like playing Defenders and enjoy the support from both primary and secondary that is buffed. Some like the higher damage in sacrifice for the extra support. That's called play style.

People may switch all their characters to Corruptors, never play Defenders again. However, I don't particularly care about the numbers, I enjoy playing all of my characters, including all my Defenders as Defenders. I'll continue to make Defenders and play CoH with them. They are fun to play to me, I'm an asset to my team, and that's all that matters to me.

You guys are welcome to argue numbers all you want, but the Defender forums aren't exactly the place to go "Oh cool, Defenders. Well, you should fall in love with Corruptors because they are so much better." This is what most of the threads I've looked into come to. "Why do a Cold Dom/Ice? Play a Ice/Cold Dom." My response is, some people just prefer the play style and feel of the Defender. I'm one of these. The numbers can be whatever you want, and heck, you can not invite me to a team because I'm a defender when Rogue comes out. That's your own problem, I do my job well and do it well regardless of if I'm a Defender or Corruptor.

I've still got more to give away AND I've still got more to make then give away.

I've got level 15 Accuracy, 15/20 Immobilize and Holds, and a level 20 Tempered Readiness: Slow/End I believe. No one's really been a fan of the slow set yet.

Thanks to all those that came out to Stormy's IO give away. I gave out around 30 level 15-20 IOs Damage, Defense Buffs, Recharge, and one level 30 Harmonized Healing: Endurance enhancement. I hope all of those that came out and got them enjoy them, and it probably won't be too long until the give away happens again.

That's why the devs made Kins. Heaven forbid people be able to be able to manage their blue bars or the speed of their characters.