StormyDarkness

I heart my anti-healer thread! Don't take it away from me!

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Besides, you can search all zones, and filter the results so you invite a nice blend of various ATs.

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People need this for a successful team? I love my heavily Blaster/Scrapper teams when I'm the only Defender. Not that I look for that team specifically, but if the chips fall that way, I'm not usually disappointed.

I'm in the same boat blue side. I've got 15+ sets of salvage, if you need something particular, I got 35+ of all but LR's mask. All of my Red characters now have full halloween, but I'd still be willing to work something out.

Also, thank you Mister Roswell.

Jophiel, that just goes into power set descrimination usually. There's very few people that say no to a Rad/, Kin/, or Emp/. This is on a set that's less known and less "OMG I want that power set on my team" thing. Pretty much anything but those three that get excited over a Defender on the team tends to be people who just like having the AT on the team.

I'm always happy to just have people on the team. Take a big die and roll out what ATs and Powersets I have, and I'd gladly play it and make it work. From my noticing, Sonic Res is unknown by a lot of people and what it can do. Storm is hated, FF is loved (by PuGs), and Rad/ Kin/ Emp are looked for. If you're aren't any of those, it's a meh feeling from those people. If I had 8 Defenders, I'd be excited. If I had 8 of intelligent people, I'm excited about my team.

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It's up to you, the player, to determine what you find most important. Once you, the player, have this figured out, you're well on your way to figure out the AT that fits you best.


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Apparently you fail at reading comprehension and math here. It doesn't matter if a few of the support powers are 20% greater than corruptor versions if you're trading away 30% total damage (with all -res/+dmg and scourge calculated in).

...

That's a 34.87% damage advantage for Corruptors for a 16.77% support loss. It's not a balanced trade off by a longshot.

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I think I know which AT you prefer, and I'm well aware of what AT I prefer. To each their own, and it will always be my stance.

Once again, if people are going to ditch Defender for Corruptors, then they're going to do so. Others are going to play Defenders to play Defenders. People are going to do as they will, and that's just a simple matter of fact to *every* person who's said they are going to play X instead of Y for Z reason(s).

If they don't like the character, they can ditch the character for another. That's fine with me, and I understand the ultimate goal: to play a game and have fun. However, you have this:

Defender support advantage: varies between 18% to 25% depending on the support set

And also the fact that most of the secondary's secondary effect, Radiation Blast's -def, Sonic's -res, etc. are higher. Which means if you want to do more to help the team, when it comes to debuffs, then Defender is the way to go. Sure, you may find it not to mean that much; however, that's my entire point of pretty much all my posts. Play what you find important and what you find to be the most fun.

Want buffs/debuffs faster and stronger secondary effects, go with a Defender. If you want higher damage and slower buff/debuffs, go Corruptor. It's a simple concept of play what you like and what you have fun with. Not sure exactly what's hanging you up there. The point of games is have fun. Poking every thread with Defenders need a buff to damage, though relevant to this actual thread, isn't productive.

When phrases such as "I'm worried about Defenders vanishing to Corruptors" my response has and, until further notice, will be that I'll continue to play Defenders even if every other person in all of CoX switches to Corruptors. I enjoy the 1-50, or since you'll complain about it, 1-41 is more enjoyable to me personally on a Defender.

There are other people on here as well that don't plan on dropping Defenders for Corruptors regardless of a damage boost or not. If there's people who are going to switch to all corruptors from a mix, so be it for me to stop them. However, my point has and always will be play what you find fun. If the straight up numbers matter that much to you and your definition of fun, so be it and to each their own.

I've also pointed them to the thread that has gone in depth on this topic as to prevent the need to stir up an entire topic that's been beaten before.

As a further note to Turbo: still not talking about specifics. You're welcome to apply to become a Developer for CoX and revamp all the defender power sets and the AT all you'd like. You've stated Defenders have more support yourself, and I stated that Defenders have more support. So to be quite honest, I'm uncertain where your argument lies that Defender's aren't support. I've not looked into the numbers in Kinetics, however, you've already stated they have better support and the numbers confirm this. It's up to you, the player, to determine what you find most important. Once you, the player, have this figured out, you're well on your way to figure out the AT that fits you best.

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Sets like Kinetics really show that you have no idea what you're talking about here. Defenders being better at support just isn't the case in the grand scheme of things.

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Maybe it's just me, but there's more than just one power set for Defenders. Maybe having a view outside of one particular instance could help. Then again, that might just be me *shrugs*

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And yet I join these teams, and attempt to keep them alive, because there is a strange, masochistic desire to see exactly what I can do with my toon in terms of keeping a team alive while blasting the heck out of things.

What's the ultimate Defender Challenge?

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For the bad Defender, exactly what you have on top. Keep people alive while trying to kill things. Depending on what power sets you're playing, one will be easier than the other though you can do them both with each (and if you're a skilled defender, you should be doing both).

The smarter the team, the easier your job it, the more fun everyone has. You still need to do stuff to keep them alive, but it's more of a fun thing than a chore to do. If you're looking for a "challenge", most people will tell you soloing.

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I believe defenders really need a damage boost because IMO they should be better ranged fighters. I am concerned that with going rogue the defender will become an afterthought for the Corruptor.

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Been done, and done, and done again. Honestly I'm sick of this discussion. Check every 2-3 threads that aren't based around builds and you can see multiple arguments on this very subject.

Some people are going to completely go over to Corruptors; while others, like myself, are still going to play Defenders and actually bring them over to Red side. For those strickly looking at actual and solo only numbers, sure Corruptors are probably what you want to play. If you like teaming a lot and having bigger force multiplier numbers, play a defender. That'd be my suggestion.

Corruptors are going to take over Defenders as much as Controllers already do. People like specific ATs because it fits their play style. If you like Defenders or want to play a Defender, play one. Complaining about the damage scale really isn't helping anything at all.

If you want full details on this discussion on a thread that didn't really need it, check out the FF versus Cold thread that I believe is still on page one if not page 2 of the Defender forums. It's 15+ pages of posts long of pretty much every Defender thread discussion expect when dealing with Empathy within it. There's a recent one of that if you want to swing on that one too.

Kismet *should* be there.

I've got a ton in storage over a few characters blue side. I've got only 4-6 red characters Virtue, but I'd gladly trade since I believe most/all where made after last Halloween.

Edit: My global is @Deertayorkay

I'm getting on now and probably will be the majority of the night. Might have to switch characters to get on the appropriate one with all of the salvage, but I'll still be around.

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What this thread has boiled down to; oranges taste better than apples because oranges are orange.

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Don't forget those who say apples are tasty because they are apples are wrong because oranges are better. Other than that, right on the money.

Who knew that two sets with two very similar powers could make them automatically set in stone that one is better than the others and everyone else is wrong because of it.

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No apples are better because they can be red, green, reddish-greenish-orangish and white-ish on the inside. Also, everyone knows that if you eat oranges you're a noob. Therefore, you're wrong.

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Umm... I think you either misread the analogy or the entire thread. Not sure which.

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Lol don't take it personally, I was being facetious...

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Oh, alrighty then.

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My standard answer to every person who asks a variant of "What Defender do I roll next?" is Dark Miasma. The obvious exception would be those people who just did Dark, but that seems to be a surprisingly small number of people.

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*points to signature*
I just have 5+ more defenders already in progression towards 50...

Update. I get off work at 8 EST, but I don't know if I'll be able to get on immediately. I can try tonight, but I'm uncertain. As for Tuesday, I'm off, and also have Thursday off as well. Monday I get off at 4 EST so I can do it then as well. Saturday I have off, but I'm seeing Wicked that evening. We could do it early afternoon, around 1-2 EST but around 5 or 6 is when I'll be heading off to see that.

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so far we have... indifference, sarcasm, and "stupid" ... i was hopeing for something a bit more constructive from the Def forum

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Welcome to the world known as the Defender forums. There are some of us that try to actually make constructive comments, but most don't. More so the people that tend to poke threads first. As I said, not all of the Defender forum people are this way, just a high population that post a lot are.

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What this thread has boiled down to; oranges taste better than apples because oranges are orange.

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Don't forget those who say apples are tasty because they are apples are wrong because oranges are better. Other than that, right on the money.

Who knew that two sets with two very similar powers could make them automatically set in stone that one is better than the others and everyone else is wrong because of it.

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No apples are better because they can be red, green, reddish-greenish-orangish and white-ish on the inside. Also, everyone knows that if you eat oranges you're a noob. Therefore, you're wrong.

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Umm... I think you either misread the analogy or the entire thread. Not sure which.

I'm a personal fan of Storm Summoning. That being said, something with debuffs is your best bet. Cold Domination and Dark Miasma are probably the best overall jack of all trades. Colds have the shields, Dark has the the -to-hit. They kinda go back and forth. Pretty much all the sets are great, but those who debuff tend to have the best overall solo-ability.

If you want to be controller-esk while being a defender, I'd suggest Dark Blast or Psychic Blast. Though each of them tend to have their own pros and cons along with stronger controls and weaker controls. If you want for pure damage output, for both team and solo, Sonic is the best choice. It doesn't have much on the mitigation factor, but the -res can be quite tasty.

I say this from playing a decent bit of all of the choices for primary/secondary for Defenders. It really depends on what you're going for. Each brings their own unique thing. For soloing, I'd probably suggest Rad, Storm, or Dark. Storm, if you can understand how to manipulate the KB to your advantage, is amazing. It'll also help you see more value in KB powers and how Energy Blast can really become an asset. However, it's a big learning curve but it can get you very far down the path after you learn it. My Storm/Dark is great fun and after figuring out how to make him work for me, partly by running lots of 1-15 Ouroboros missions when I don't have all that many powers the other from TFs of various levels, I've come to find out how to effectively mitigate damage. He's also the character that really taught me cones and how to use them effectively.

Regardless, until you figure out what makes your defender tick, you'll probably have issues with making them work as well as you want them to solo. It's a long journey, but can help you play nearly all ATs better. Corruptors, Blasters, Masterminds, Controllers, and to a smaller extent Kheds and Dominators. It's all about find the one that fits your play style and maximizing on those power sets' potential.

I wouldn't recommend thinking you'll see great numbers any time soon anyhow for damage.

I have a level 29 Sonic/Dark as well. He's fun, but I've not really pushed for having him on teams. Also, I believe all my heroes have been created and made to at least the level 15 or so mark before AE came out. With Trap and AR coming to Defender, I'm going to be making some new heroes.

I've currently been pushing for my Tanker (level 40) to get on teams, but any of my 5 37-41 characters would be lovely to get on teams and increase their levels to 45+. My characters that are in the 20 range are slowly pushing towards 30, my low 30s are slowly pushing towards my upper 30s. As much fun as having 20 character between 30 and 41 sounds...

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A good "healer" (one who also, probably primarily, does other stuff besides heal) can often turn a bad team into a good one or even very good one. That is the simple reason people continue to ask for them, many bad teams are not that far from working and do not need much help for people to start having fun.

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Point and case on my Empathy/Psi. I had no reservations in any way shape or form when running team of placing it on Tier 4 difficulty. It was either a heal fest for me (when the team wasn't gelling) or I was just buffing when it's up and attacking (when the team is good, and adding a bit of crowd control via secondary effects). Granted, there has been a spectrum from hardly having a chance to buff (though I still did it) from healing so much to having to remind myself to buff because the team was functioning so well that I only really needed to blast.

I know how to play my Empath well, my point is that Empathy is the "healing" set, and no other set can heal as well as it. What I mean has been that even though Empathy can buff and do many other things than heal, there's a lot of sets that have a lot more buffs or debuffs. Storm and Radiation Emission have 1 heal, Thermal has 2, Trick Arrow and Force Fields have none, etc. If each set is played well, they add a lot to a team. Asking for a specific power set shows a weakness to the team in my opinion. Sure, a Rad, Kin, or Emp is a great addition, but FF, TA, Storm, Cold, etc. are also a great addition. It's the bias towards certain power sets that get me going.

Other than Statesman, I can't think of another TF or anything else in the entire game that needs a specific power set. Sure, a bad Rad or Kin versus a good Empath, I'll take the Empath every time. A good of any other power set besides those three versus a spamming Healing Aura, SB only, etc. Defenders, I'll take the one that's better. The teams I run don't need anything specific. Sure, a tanker would be nice, but if I have a team full of Defenders and Controllers or have a Scrapper that can tank just as well as a tanker *shrugs*. It's more about how well the players work together and use tactics more than what their team composition is. If the team is full of Blasters, sure it'll be "glass cannon" and "kill them before they kill us" mode. Even then, the secondary effects of the primaries and the secondaries of the blasters give a bit of crowd control as well. It really is the bias for certain power sets that really get to me.

Edit: For clarification.

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It's...true...

That means
Sonic/AR! here I come!

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Kinetics/AR here >.>

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Quick Clip?
The Muzzle Flash?
Rick O'Shea?

Personally, I'd rather have Poison/Toxic Blast, or Fire/Fire...

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To each their own, personally I'm excited about it.

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It's...true...

That means
Sonic/AR! here I come!

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Kinetics/AR here >.>

I hardly ever get "Are you a healer?" tells. I do see it a lot of broadcasts for it and other team finding ways for people asking for healers. I tend to respond to them as stated above.

As my experience with Air Superiority on my Defenders, I tend to use it on teams to keep the harder targets mitigated. My Storm/Dark has it, along with my Mind/FF. They help keep the tougher target from being able to attack. As such, my team can focus on defeating the rest of the minions or taking out my KD'd target quickly so I can go about different things.

However, a lot of this has to do with tactics as well. If you're soloing on a power set for the first time playing the power set, especially a defender and maybe controller, you may be missing a key piece of tactical advantage. Sometimes my Earth/Storm can Stone Cages the mob and run around a corner or far enough away and successfully mitigate most of the mob's fire power on me. In turn, she can also use KB mitigation and combine it with Snow Storm and Quicksand to keep melee enemies out of range and on their bums for a long time. I've played 2 Earth character to at least 30, and 5+ Storm characters, so I'm aware of how well they work along and then figure out how to make synergy together, which is the fun part of leveling them slowly.

If it's your first time messing with FF or Energy Blast, you're at a disadvantage. That's why when I start to explore a new power set, I tend to couple it with something that I already know fairly well. There's been a few times that I've messed with two completely new power sets. Even my Illusion/Thermal I have at level 21 right now, I've played Illusion a bit to like level 12 one maybe twice and Thermal I've done it maybe once to less than that. With a level 50 Mind character and a Empathy character to 32 and 50 before I made my Illusion/Thermal that I have now, I left comfortable with the general ideas of both power sets. They are by no means the same, but I know how to make tactical choices that benefit not only myself, but my team I'm on.

As I stated before, experience does have something to say about how well things go over. Someone can have a perfect build for a scrapper and still struggle with it if they don't know what they're doing with it. That's why I like my Dominators, they get Control/Support/Damage in both range and melee. However, this is the Defender forums, so let's keep our eyes on that point of view.

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Nobody uses hero stats anymore?

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I do, but mostly for my static Mind/Kin. Blasted SB and it's low timed buffed. It's helpful to know if it's 30 second away from going down, then just rebuff them then.

I'll firstly say I did not read this entire thread, but browsed the first couple posts for what first nagged at me.

You have your scrapper and defender. I understand this. However, the one thing I don't know is the build, other than having their Tier 1 attacks, Tough, Bubble, and that's about it for the Defender. There's a lot of stuff one can do with the build, however, if we're talking soloing and there's a lot of powers that are up in the air of what you have, then how can it be a fair comparison of soloing.

If your defender is soloing with the ally bubbles, then you don't have a full range of powers at your disposal. Also, if you only have 1 attack from your attacking set on either, it's not going to go as well as you'd like. For defenders, especially solo, the secondary is equally important than the primary. You need to buff yourself/enemies, but if you only have 1 of your attacks from your blasts, it's not an adequate judge of what your character can do.

We already know your scrapper had at least two attacks, which allows for attack chains, which allow the enemies to die faster. That's my major problem I didn't see in your post nor talked about in the first page. People's builds, play styles, and overall experience with the game allows for different results. A level 22 FF/? with powers almost exclusively power pool and primary and is fairly new to the game isn't going to be able to do nearly as well solo than someone with a mix of soloing primary, secondary blasts, and some power pools that's been playing since CoH first came out.

Just food for thought on the opening post.