Stillhart

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What did you guys do to them before I got here? lol

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Nothing. They (those kind of posters not all base builders) lump anyone who likes the market as a market manipulator and put their fingers in their ears (metaphorically) about any facts about the market and drops.

They (market haters) want the shiny IOs and haven't adjusted their pre-market inf values to the new reality. And here we are two years later and they still think a million is a lot of inf, 10 million is too much and 100 million is impossible.

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Ahhh...that makes a lot of sense. I keep forgetting that the market wasn't in the game initially. Putting it in later will definitely influence (no pun intended) people's views of the whole thing.

I mean, every other MMO I've ever played has markets/AHs and I never see this level of derision for people who play the markets. But I guess it would make sense if this were the case.

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Quote from the thread.

"Worse, in my opinion, many proponents of the market system actively block some fixes to other aspects of the game that would greatly improve player's enjoyment of the game."

I never knew we had such power.

/is scared now

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I was actually wondering about that when I read it. I feel like I'm on my way to becoming an ebil marketeer and I'm unable to fathom the...derision in which you're held by some other players. "You guys on the market forum come over here and..." as if there's some invisible boundary. We're on on the CoX forums...

What did you guys do to them before I got here? lol

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if its your base, its your busyness.
I gave one (sg base) to a friend, he dont use it.
Ask him, its for free.

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You can give bases away?? o.O

Well they're talking 300k prestige to get a decent solo base going. That's 150m inf and I'm at 100 already. I don't think that's really all that much considering I earn like...3k prestige per day or something ridiculous like that at L27. That's 1.5m inf...I can marketeer 10 times that per day and have inf left over.

Seems to me that, although the exchange rate is ridiculous, it's a classic case of comparative advantage. I am so much more efficient at generating inf than prestige that even with the [censored] exchange rate, I'm still coming out ahead.

Maybe I should post this in the Base thread...but then again, trying to explain comparative advantage might make their heads explode.

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but you've failed to take your conclusions to the next step. The answer is obviously
that we may have inflation on the things that aren't price-fixed: set IO recipes and salvage
(and by corollary, anything that uses these items, i.e. crafted IOs).

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Actually, I believe I did also raise that point. Only *some* things in the market have
rising prices while many things (common sets, common salvage) are returning to price
levels seen a few months ago, which are lower than recent prices in many cases.

The case I haven't seen reasonably presented yet is twofold: Items that are continually
(and permanently) trending upwards in price where the rate of that increase is *also*
higher than the rate of increase in income over corresponding time. Those cases would
represent inflation to me.

I'm not saying that cannot or does not exist, but I am saying I don't believe it is common
or widespread beyond a few specific items (or item categories - purples for instance).


Regards,
4

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Okay well fair enough. I admit I'm still VERY new to this game relative to most people in this forum. You have a much better view of how things have been trending over the years. But from my newcomer's eyes here's the biggest thing I see that effects prices:

People don't think for themselves enough when it comes to slotting. They read on the forum that they need to slot XYZ so they go buy XYZ. Thus XYZ price trends upwards. Sets that look perfectly awesome to me are going for really cheap, while sets that are good AND hyped in every guide on the forums are outrageous. I think that's causing prices to go up more than inflation, based on a lot of the discussion so far in this thread.

As far as prices increasing faster than income...I don't believe players have enough information to track income levels to the point where we can determine if that's the case. But unless they've introduced new content that introduces inf into the economy faster than before (have they?? I honestly don't know), we can probably assume that income is fixed. Thus any upward trend in prices OVERALL would seem to be indicative of inflation.

I think you're right tho that overall prices are trending upwards. See my example above for an explanation of why I think some prices are going up while others aren't. (Sorry for the out of order post...thinking out loud too. )

D

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One problem with inflation is that there's a 2 billion influence cap, which is less than is needed to IO out some toons these days. A simple solution to that is to just raise the cap, of course. Another problem is that it means your influence reserves dwindle in value over time. Yes, you could make some bets on which assets will appreciate, but it seems silly to me to have to tie up all of my influence in purples sitting in my base as a hedge against inflation. I'll do it if it gets bad enough, but most people won't. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, blah blah blah.

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The poor do not get poorer in this game. There are many mechanisms built-in to spread the wealth around: merit rewards, AE tickets, the market (!) etc. I made 100m inf in a week once I started trying.

And as you said, there's an inf cap...the rich CAN'T get richer, they can only distribute their surplus wealth to the poor.

So in actuality, what you said was the exact opposite...

Anyone? Anyone? Beuler?

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As stated earlier, I have no issue with inf sinks if they're a creative and interesting part
of the game, but I don't see them as a "solution" for a problem.

So, the question I'm asking is:

What is problematic about a money surplus?


Regards,
4

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You make a great point, but you've failed to take your conclusions to the next step. The answer is obviously that we may have inflation on the things that aren't price-fixed: set IO recipes and salvage (and by corollary, anything that uses these items, i.e. crafted IOs). While these items aren't required one bit to enjoy the game and to prosper, most people find these items to be extremely desirable to the point of feeling that they need them.

Kudos for paring down the issue to the core. I think it's very important that people ignore the items you specified (for the reasons you specified) when making arguments on this issue. There is, however, definitely still the possibility of inflation on these items. Is it happening? Is it a problem? How can we control it? These are the questions asked in the OP and they're still valid, IMO.

D

There's a lot of really good talk in the Base thread about why people don't spend the inf on prestige. I'd say it's pretty conclusive that it's not the inf sink it could be. In fact, at this point I'd say that I'm not super psyched about the exchange rate and I don't know that I'd do it either. Perhaps if they dropped a zero and made it 50:1.

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Here is my Brute Guide.

Smash and Stuff - The Stone Melee/Willpower Brute (flabajaba2213)

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What is up with the links on this guide...?

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Scroll to the top and click the link that says "flat".

Sorry for the double post. I made up a somewhat imaginary build in Mids and I wanted to get some feedback. I know some of this stuff is gonna be hard to get/expensive but I'm not overly concerned with that at the moment. I'm more concerned about learning proper slotting theory.

- I am still L27 and everything up to that point (skill- and slot-wise) is accurate. After that, I'll assume the level that I put the slots in isn't important for now.

- I'm still pretty far off from soft-capping my defense...but my HP and HP Regen are pretty buffed. Is it possible to soft-cap def on this build without using purples/hami-o's?

Any feedback would be really helpful! Thanks!

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Hartari: Level 45 Natural Brute
Primary Power Set: War Mace
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Bash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Heal-I(A), RctvArm-ResDam(40), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(43), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(43), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Heal-I(45)
Level 2: Pulverize -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Zinger-Dam%(19)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- KinCrsh-Dmg/KB(A), KinCrsh-Acc/KB(7), KinCrsh-Rchg/KB(7), KinCrsh-Rechg/EndRdx(11), KinCrsh-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(27), KinCrsh-Acc/Dmg/KB(27)
Level 6: Fast Healing -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(11), Mrcl-Rcvry+(13)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Clobber -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- DisWord-ToHitDeb(A), DisWord-ToHitDeb/Rchg(17), DisWord-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(17), Numna-Heal(19), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(29), Numna-Heal/Rchg(31)
Level 18: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21)
Level 22: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(23), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(23), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 24: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(25), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(25)
Level 26: Shatter -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg(33), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 28: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(31)
Level 30: Heightened Senses -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(34), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 35: Whirling Mace -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 38: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(42), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Weave -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(45), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Fury
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]9% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]9% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]9% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]9% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]9% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]9% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]9% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]9% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]21.9% Defense(Smashing)[*]21.9% Defense(Lethal)[*]3.75% Defense(Energy)[*]3.75% Defense(Negative)[*]19.4% Defense(Melee)[*]1.88% Defense(Ranged)[*]22.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]27% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]10% FlySpeed[*]230.5 HP (15.4%) HitPoints[*]10% JumpHeight[*]10% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -3)[*]Knockup (Mag -3)[*]MezResist(Confused) 1.65%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 11.6%[*]MezResist(Stun) 6.6%[*]2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery[*]38% (2.38 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]2.5% Resistance(Smashing)[*]13% RunSpeed[/list]

Yeah as a budding marketeer in need of more storage, I recently started a solo SG. I don't have the money (or desire) for two accounts, so the 15-member bonus isn't going to happen. The only way I can see to really get a base going is to buy the presitge.

Fortunately, I am fast approaching the 100m inf mark and I figure in another week I should have double that easily. I've read the guides and I know that for 2-300k I can easily get a mini teleport base going. Not sure about the storage stuff, but with more storage I can make more inf so yeah.

I guess that doesn't help much. I'd like to hear more from people that have been playing for more than a month (unlike me.)

D

I just nocied recently that you can buy Prestige with Inf. That seems like a pretty solid inf sink to me....

I can't get your first build to import into Mids for some reason. It's giving me a weird error. Could you please try it again, maybe with the direct data link?

EDIT - Sorry I meant the IO build!

Well I stuck a full set of Kinetic Crash on Jawbreaker since it has damage in it. That whole set couldn't have cost more than 2m inf to craft. I started grabbing pieces of Kinetic Combat to 4-slot in my other three main attacks (leaving out the proc). Unfortunately they're pretty rare so I only got one piece so far. Can I get them using MA tickets somehow (bronze? silver?)? I don't have enough merits to use on that.

I'm not sure what I'm gonna do since the KC's are so rare. The price isn't an issue, just availability and the fact that I don't want to tie up all my auction slots hoping for a recipe (x3). This is kinda the main reason I was looking at other sets...I'm an outside-the-box thinker generally and trying something that's not "conventional wisdom" just to see how it goes seems fun...it has the added benefit of being relatively cheap since nobody wants the other recipes. :-D

So are there any other good sets I could slot besides Kinetic Combat?

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Wow, very good point, hadn't thought of that situation.
I see how it could have sold for more to someone who had it up for less, it would be nice to get 20,000 when your asking price is 50.

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I do that constantly when I'm grinding common IOs for my crafting badges. Put it up for 10, sells right away for 150k. Happens all the time.

So I found a recipe that I've been building for ~1-1.5m and selling for 5m. I've sold all of the ones that have been sold in the last few days...something like 5 or 6 so far. I moved on to one that costs 4m to make and sells for 15m. I sold one of those in like 4 hours and have another up on market already. I only have about 5mil cash on hand but all my slots are taken up and I have some 30-50m inf tied up in slots. I'm also flipping some rare salvage while I'm at it since it's ridiculously easy money.

Not bad in less than a week from 2m seed!

PS - I also started crafting myself a few IO sets, which is why my totals might seem a little low. I doubt I've spent more than 2-5m on myself so far but already I can feel the difference in SMASH levels. :-]

Well my thought process was more along the lines of this: keeping them stunned gives my WP time to regen, gives me time to build more fury. More fury gives me more damage, even without damage IOs. I'm thinking that between RTTC and stuns, I can stay up long enough that the little dps I'm losing won't be a big deal. Also I thought Stupefy had some badass secondary effects that would be really handy (hp regen, end regen, power recharge).

But I'll look into those other sets. I'm still a noob at IO sets, so I'm not sure what makes one set that much better than another.

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I'm not sure I understand who, what or why the "this is a bid" was posted.

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I asked a question, got a smarmy response, responded smarmily, and got hit with the mod stick (tho I think I did a good job of not feeding the troll...) The useful part of that post is the quoted final prices of the last auction.

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I'm not sure if I'd be doing bidding and/or just setting a price and selling. Freedom/Villainside would be super-easy for me because I have lots of toons with lots of purple IOs already there. You would be free to pay from any server/side. I'd charge 10% more for non-Freedom/Virtue money because I have to move it across servers. However, I consider Infamy/Influence to almost be worth 1 to 1 currently. Maybe 1.2 Influence to 1 Infamy at worst.

I like to blow stuff up. I'm going to blow stuff up anyway. Why not get paid while blowing stuff up? I'm not sure how soon I'd start. Mostly wanted to see how much interest exists.

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Well keep us posted on the server/side/pricing model. I have some vague interest...

I'm on villain side on the "V" server that isn't the busy one...probably Victory, but I always forget until I see it at the top of my list.

Of course I could make a new guy on the other one...:P

I'm just messing around, man, I don't want your money. I'm actually learning the markets right now and working on amassing my own fortune. It'd hardly do to boast about my first billion after being seeded by begging!

You could always give the money to me. I mean, you know, since you don't seem to want it.

1 - Does the money have to be on the server where the character is going?
2 - Is infamy worth the same as influence?
3 - Is Smurphy doing this just for the money or does he actually enjoy levelling 6 people at once?
EDIT: 4 - How long do I have to make 200m+ inf?

FWIW, I love my War Mace/Willpower. I started the game by making a zillion alts and this is the one that I actually kept coming back to play. He's my main now and up to L26.

Okay so please forgive me if this is a dumb question. I've been marketeering lately and no longer am worried about inf. So I decided to look into IO slotting without worry of price (within reason of course!) For reference I'm WM/WP and Level 26 right now.

I thought that instead of putting Crushing Impact in all my single-target attacks, I'd look into other options because I just don't think it's worth the money. I thought Stupefy looked like a good set and I looked into the pricing and it's actually surprisingly cheap! I'm tempted to put this in all three attacks that will take it. Is there any pressing reason why this wouldn't be a good idea?

I'm also looking at putting Kinetic Crash in Jawbreaker since that's decently cheap too. I haven't looked into AOE stuff yet since I'll be grabbing Whirling Mace and Crowd Control at 34 and 32 respectively.

I'll probably be posting more questions here when I get to working on my secondary and pool powers. Oh, is there any "must have" IO's I should be trying to squeeze in? I know I don't really need knockback protection procs...maybe a stealth travel proc?

Well I made over 10m inf in the last 3 days playing about 30 mins in the morning and 1 hour in the evening. Been too busy to actually play the game but logging on to marketeer is quick and rewarding. I started with ~2m (from drops and such...just playing normally) and I haven't been investing super aggressively yet (tho I just put some big orders on the market this morning). During this time I've gotten about half my 25/30 crafting badges and made money off every IO I crafted (tho not enough per slot profit to make it worth my while to keep making them).

I feel comfortable enough making inf in this game now that I'm no longer worried about inf in the slightest. I started looking into IO sets for my character...putzing around in Mids and picking stuff that looked fun then checking prices on the BM. Surprisingly, some of the stuff I want I could probably craft a full set for 1-2m inf. (A full set of Stupefy L25-30 for instance, for my Mace Brute). I look at some of the more desired sets (Crushing Impact) and just don't see the value in paying 2-5m more per enhancement. Maybe I need to start spending more time back in the Brute forum to figure out WHY people want those sets so much more.

Anyhow, just wanted to thank everyone once again. I am no longer stressing about min/maxing since inf is no longer an issue. I'll get some IO sets that I want, and if I learn in a week or a month that I've gimped myself...I'll just buy more. :-D It's amazing how having a lot of money frees you from some of the stresses of being a newb.