Steel_Shaman

I'm not going to ask someone in their 30's or 40's to let my level 16 come along. Even sidekicked up, my contribution would be laughable due to still having DO's and minimal slotting. I have no trouble SK'ing up on a character that at least already has SO's but before that it makes me feel like I'm leeching. But we'll see. I would actually love to be proven wrong.

To each his own.
I guess I'm just a stubborn old fool. I like what I like and what I don't like is raiding or the mechanics that go with it. Thanks for being polite about it. It's rare to be able to disagree civilly with someone these days, hehe.

I'll admit I haven't asked because I've gotten the very strong impression that people just aren't interested in anything but TF's. I'll give it a shot and see how it goes. Thanks guys for your suggestions.

Are you primarily playing 50's though?
I'm currently leveling a new character. At one point today I was one of 3 people online in the 11-20 range. At least, that's how many showed up when I did a search. I have no idea if I could even have grouped with them because of that completely non-intuitive color coding the search window has now.

I dunno, maybe I'm just expecting too much. I would just like to occasionally get a team going doing papers, tips, story arcs, that kind of thing. I'm not always in the mood for TF's (well to be fair I'm rarely in the mood for them) but it seems these days when people say "teaming" what they really mean is "TF's".

As for global channels, I'm in LB and LFA. Maybe it's just been the time of day I'm on, but all I ever see folks talking about is the trials in those two channels.

Ah well, I'll keep plugging along. I do still enjoy the game, despite all my griping. I must admit to a certain degree of culture shock when it comes to the new content. The Devs just seem to be re-inventing the game and its direction and to be honest that bothers me a lot. I liked the old game, and don't really want to see it go.

Yeah I suppose I'm just frustrated.
Despite what others have said to the contrary, this IS a pretty big decision shift for CoH. We're going from having no end game at all to that's all anyone ever talks about or does.

Hopefully it will all shake out in the long run. In the meantime I guess I'll just group when I can, which isn't very often unfortunately.

I would say you just accurately described my "worst case scenario" for CoH. I cannot stand the direction of the new content. It's about as "Steel Shaman Unfriendly" as the Devs can make it. It has EVERYTHING I hate from other MMO's all rolled into it. Part of the reason I've always enjoyed CoH is that it didn't have all that end game crap you find elsewhere.

Now I'm sure someone will come in here and tell me how I should just leave, my opinion doesn't matter, and my 60 months of paid time is of no consequence because I don't like the new shiny that has completely ruined non-50 teaming on my server and turned CoH into a solo game for me.

Bitter? Why yes I am, thank you for noticing.

Actually there's quite a bit for me to do. I just have to do it by myself because as I said earlier, the leveling population on Liberty has taken a significant hit due to most people grinding Incarnate trials. And before you say it, no I won't go to Freedom or Virtue. Liberty is my home and it's where I'm staying. And it's not exactly that low pop anyway (medium load every single night is not a low pop server imho). It's just the population it has is rather....focused right now, shall we say?

I'm not burnt out on the game. I daresay that for the moment the basic gameplay is the only thing keeping me here at all. Believe it or not, it is possible to not like some of what the Devs do but to like other things they do. I'm just hoping they get all ten Incarnate slots out really fast, then start developing other, non-Incarnate content. At this point, I'll even take more levels added to Praetoria.

Honestly what are you trying to say here?
Right now, the vast majority of people are doing content I actively avoid (the Incarnate Trials). The number of folks leveling new characters is (on my server, at least), lower than I've ever seen it. Hence my statement.

Sam does socialize. He said in this thread that he chats with friends while playing missions solo. Chatting with someone is being social. One does not have to be on a team with someone to interact with them. I help out folks asking questions in the Help channel all the time. Am I being anti-social because I'm not grouped with them? Nope.

Which takes us back to my original statement: I just don't like that story line. It's a matter of personal preference I suppose. I'm one of the folks that took exception to the Incarnate pets (Lore slot I think?) all being Praetorian mobs. I know that a lot of people really like the Incarnate stuff, and I'm happy the Devs are making them happy. I just don't care for any of it, from the lore all the way up to the mechanics of the system.

It's a good thing I like making new characters and leveling them up. Otherwise CoH would be pretty dull for me right now.

Thank you.
I really doubt the Devs do any content like that for the Incarnate system though. Some players would feel like it cheapened their efforts by having a much easier route to the same powers added later. I can't say I would disagree with them either.

Ah well, I really should get to bed. Thanks for the conversation, it's been interesting.

I'm aware that these trials are a far cry from the raids I ran in other games. Nevertheless, there are enough similarities in the style of play that I just don't care for it. For example, Adeon mentioned that avoiding the big nasty attacks of some of the mobs is part of the fun. For me, that is part of what makes it a pain in the butt.

A really good example is the big blue patches Battle Maiden makes in the Apex TF. I can't stand the "don't stand in the fire" mechanic. Other people find it interesting. To each their own.

I imagine you're wondering "well what kind of content DOES he like?" I like very simple tank and spank bosses with limited mechanics. In other words, the type of stuff we've had for the last 7 years. I know others may find that non-challenging and boring. To me, it's fun.

If this really is the case, that's crazy. It completely screws over Storm Summoning characters.

Don't get me wrong, I've done my homework. I've talked with others that have run the trials, read strategies, and looked up what info there is (sparse as it may be right now) on Paragon Wiki. The Incarnate content has all the hallmarks of the type of content I absolutely can't stand:

1) Instant death mechanics. Honestly this sort of thing just feels like a cheap shot when it happens.
2) Extremely large team sizes. I've yet to play a game that can handle large numbers of people without lag. I also find these sorts of battles very confusing and find it difficult to operate effectively at all.
3) Necessary to run the exact same content multiple times to achieve real progress. My tolerance for grinding is fairly high, but not that high.
4) Very unforgiving boss mechanics that can lead to a full team wipe in a hurry. (Similar to #1, but I feel it's different enough to merit its own mention.)
5) Extremely pet unfriendly environmental/AoE damage spikes. My favorite characters all have pets (MM's, Dom's, Controllers, my beloved Warshade).

So yeah, from my perspective there's a lot to not like there. I absolutely detest content that has the above characteristics. Others find it challenging and fun, and I accept that. I really don't begrudge them their fun.

I suppose what has really gotten my hackles raised regarding the Incarnate system is both my own history with other games and the player reactions I've seen on these boards. When it first became apparent the Incarnate content was not meant to be solo friendly at all (at least not the definition of solo friendly I personally would use) I participated in a lot of debates centering around that here on the boards. The basic vibe I saw time and again from the opposing viewpoint was very hostile and downright insulting at times. It caused me to revise my opinion of several of the more prolific forum posters from "nice folks" to "absolute jerks" in very short order. A few of them even went on ignore, something I haven't done to anyone in the entire seven years I've played this game.

There's also the looming doubt I have regarding the nature of future updates. I've seen it said many times the Devs won't JUST be developing Incarnate content. However as we all know our Dev team has historically struggled with resource allocation and it often takes them quite a while to get content done. While I have no doubt they will eventually produce non-Incarnate content again, the frequency with which they do so is of concern to me. If I can only realistically expect a content release with something I want to do in it once a year (just an example), why am I continuing to play? It certainly can't be for the companionship. Most everyone I know has either moved to newer games or are busily grinding away at the Incarnate system. One can only solo for so long before it gets boring.

Ah well, just some thoughts I have on the matter. I guess I'm just trying to get people to understand there are valid reasons to not like the system yet still like the game. Not everyone who speaks out against it is a doomcryer, and not all of us are anti-teaming either. The Incarnate system just isn't a good fit for some of us and we're a little concerned how often we'll get content we enjoy going forward. Combine that with the flak we get for speaking out sometimes and well, it leads to all sorts of "fun".

I appreciate you taking the time to offer some encouragement. I still doubt I will give the trials a try any time in the foreseeable future though. I learned the hard way that my personality does not mix well with this type of content. (Raiding for hours 5 nights a week, oh the terrible memories I have of that. I still wonder why I did it.) I get far too frustrated (at both the game and the other players) for it to be something I'd be willing to even attempt. And to actually grind it out over and over like so many people are doing? <shudder>

In the end I guess I just don't understand how this style of play can be fun for anyone. I don't think of that as a failing on my part or anyone else's. It's just the way I'm wired, so to speak.

I have no doubt there will also be some Incarnate-only TF's as well. But other than that, yeah that's pretty much what I personally expect from it.

And again, just because I have the Shards doesn't mean I have to do anything with them. When I said I'm not going to participate I meant it. My latest project is an Earth/Psi Dom. He isn't 50 yet, and I doubt I will be unlocking the Alpha slot on him when he does hit 50. There would be no point in doing so since I don't intend to participate in the Incarnate system with him.

That's nice and all, I suppose, but it doesn't really give me anything new to sink my teeth into (well, the Praetoria expansion would). I'm sure I'll get something along the line, but if it's Incarnate content I will ignore it entirely.

You seem to be having difficulty accepting I don't like the end game system and that I will not be participating. I honestly don't understand why. After all, lots of people (myself included) completely ignore that CoH has a PvP system and no one thinks that is odd. Incarnates are just one system of the game I don't like and won't mess around with. Yes, my dislike for it is rather intense, but choosing not to take part in a game system one finds unfun is hardly new or strange.

So? Unless the accumulation of shards will somehow suck me into a black hole and dump me out in the BAF, I'm good.

I'm quite aware the new TF is tied to the Incarnate storyline. I have no intention of running it. I'm rather tired of City of Praetoria. But ah well, it's a new shiny. Hopefully the Devs will get it out of their system soon enough.

Actually I've run the Ramiel arc before. That was before I realized the direction the Incarnate content was headed. As long as it was soloable story arcs and random shard drops just from playing my character like I normally would I was fine. The second I heard about the raids though, all bets were off.

War Witch could PM me personally with an offer to give me a free lifetime sub to CoH if I just played the Incarnate content once a week for 30 minutes and I would say no.

I will admit I may be reacting prematurely. I was not the least bit amused that I20 was "CoH: Get Your Raid On". But I also realize I'm hypersensitive to the subject due to my personal history. So I'm trying to be patient, really I am.

No, I absolutely will not.
If that means I never get anything new to play in CoH again then that is what it means. You can have your Incarnate system, I want no part of it.

Let me spell it out for you: I do not like end game systems. At all. I used to play CoH in part because it specifically did not have an end game. I was one of the people opposed to us getting one. I'm not happy we have an end game now. I will not participate in said end game. I feel the way I do because I raided quite heavily in another MMO and got so completely burned out on it that I will not touch the end game of any other MMO ever again.

I realize I am in a minority. I do not begrudge you and the others like you that enjoy grinding end game material. I just won't be joining you in that endeavor. To that end it is my fervent hope the Devs start releasing content for you and me simultaneously. It really doesn't take much to satisfy me. A proliferated powerset or two would keep me busy for literally months, for example.

Since Dechs didn't post a build, here's mine.
My Warshade has easily become my favorite character.

You're probably right. I guess I'm so put out with the whole thing because it has been my personal experience that any negative comments about the Incarnate system from those that do not wish to participate is met with mockery at best and outright insults at worst by other players on these boards. I will admit it has put me in a foul mood regarding the system, and has played a role in my complete refusal to touch any Incarnate content whatsoever. It's not the only reason of course, but it sure hasn't helped.

Not once have I said this will destroy the game. Stop putting words in my mouth please. What I have said is that so many players focusing heavily on the all mighty end game to exclusion of all else is not good for new player retention. That's all.

But I can see I have made the horrible mistake of being critical of the wonderful Incarnate system. Before the angry horde of players that dearly loves grinding the same two trials over and over gets here to burn me at the stake I think I'll just go.