Steampunkette

Actually... No. He wouldn't.

If you read further up ALL Vigilantes use only the Black Market.

Either they're not trusted enough for Wentworth's or they don't want to take the risk of hanging out in a public place for -too- long. But they have to hit the Isles and the Black Market to do any shopping.

So that little exploit is already covered! =-3

-Rachel-

I want this. Devs? Sticky this thread. Then implement it. Wow. What a great idea.

Yes.

/Signed in Blood
-Rachel-

Thanks for all the responses!

Alright, Larpus! The -other- reason I used Brutes instead of Corruptors or Masterminds was the need for a 'Tanker' type role. If you'll take a second glance I tried to cover each of the major roles once, with Stalkers 'extra' because I wanted to keep the sides fairly balanced.

The five core roles are Brick, Blast, Buff/Debuff/ Control, and Meleer.

For Brick you basically have two options: Tanker and Brute
Blast has One Option: Blaster
Buff/Debuff has two options: Defender and Corruptor
Meleer has three options: Scrapper, Stalker, and Brute
Control has two options: Controller or Dominator

I consider Masterminds to be Tankmages. I've got a 50 Thugs/Dark who is all but unkillable. So I feel I'm well-informed on that.

So when I went to choose I immediately grabbed Blaster. It was the only true 'Blast' type character. Corruptors -can- be blasty, but I find their abilities to be about evenly split between buff/debuff and damage whilst a Defender has a similar (but more weighted) split.

For Meleer I went straight for Scrappers. They're sturdy, capable, and balanced, making them awesome solo.

For Brick I went Tank. Right off the bat! I was just -certain- that tankers should be the ones to swap over.

When I took a look at control, I thought: Dominators would bring more control to the table -without- bringing more Buff/Debuff. Heroside you have 2 buffing classes. Villainside you have 2 buffing classes. Putting a fourth on either side seemed a bit redundant, since I planned on putting a buffer in as well.

But then I hit the Buff/Debuff -wall-. I had the choice of four ATs with Buffs. MMs (HAH!) Corruptors, Defenders, and Controllers. Now... Which of these focuses on it's area the best? Corruptors, Controllers, and MMs all push Buff/Debuff to their secondary. So a Defender is the optimal choice, I think. They've got the 'Borderline Evil' powersets. It wouldn't shock me too badly to see a Defender player Roleplaying his Dark/Dark defender as a soul-sucking demon-wraith. Or a Rad/Rad defender permanently neutering her opponents by irradiating their testes.

But now, with Blaster, Scrapper, Tanker, Dominator, and Defender... I've got 4 hero ATs being proliferated and only 1 Villain AT. What was I thinking?!

So I slapped Stalker in there. It seemed reasonable to put in another 'solo' archetype that has been so widely revered in comics. From Ninjas to Batman to Ninja Batman!

Then I took a solid look at the split. And thought Brutes should be the class that crosses over instead of tanks.

Villainside Gains: Primary Buff/Debuff AT. Primary Ranged Damage Secondary Control/More damage AT. Another Melee AT that performs slightly better than Stalkers in a long-term fight.

Heroside Gains: Primary Control/Damage archetype. Primary Damage/Defense better suited for long-duration fights. Primary Damage/Defense better suited for short-term fights.

I'd prefer to avoid proliferating tankmages. They're one of the major draws of villainside.

As an alternative: Drop Scrapper and Brute, Insert Corruptor and Tanker. Let the Stalker be the meleer AT that gets shifted over, Tankers are the Brick, and Corruptors are the Wild-Card, which keeps the Buff/Debuff balance (more or less!)

Would that work better?

As for PvPPleaseHelpMe
Sorry to sadden you... But yeah. Prodiguy basically got my intent. If you make Vigilantes able to go anywhere and be anything we'll wind up with City of Vigilantes.

Ventogator
I'm sorry... No. A Vigilante is just another hero heading out to do his or her heroics. By the true meaning of the word all the 'Hero ATs' heading to the Isles would be doing so soley for the purpose of fighting crime, there. All the 'Villain ATs' coming to Paragon are doing it to fight crime.

At least with the Fake ID idea a player could Roleplay his or her villain as coming to Paragon to foul things up, perhaps with a Vendetta against a specific villain group *cough*Crey!*cough!*

And Larpus again!
The initial concept of Vigilantes would be Anti-Heroes. Sad as that is. =-( There really isn't a way to do true Anti-Villains in this game except to re-write all the heroside content specifically for those players. Not Adding arcs: Full Re-writes of all conversations.

I really can't see that happening... So Vigilantes is my suggestion.

-Rachel-

That's actually a really strong rationale, Xenosnake. Though the game doesn't describe who, how, or why only Heroes and Villains get mediported. Only that they do.

This is a strong example of what the general vagaries of those facts lead to. We could have them go to jail, we could have them mediport like normal.

Depends on the Devs, ultimately.

Sigium? I limited the ATs for several reasons. First: To create a third 'faction' that has similar options to both the created factions, rather than 'all or Nothing'. People who Love Masterminds and Controllers still have to hang on to one side or the other, which keeps the player base at least somewhat anchored on both sides, rather than a completely random tide of 'everyone is a hero!' and 'Everyone is a villain!'

-Rachel-

PS! As for the Tunnels... Actually we -could- use dozens of different tunnels connecting different zones. We know the Council and (possibly) the Column use bunkers and tunnels. The Trolls as well, Igneus, Nemesis' mole-machines, The Snakes.

I think it's a fantastic idea to have different tunnel systems to get to different locations, AND to have some of them intersect.

-Rachel-

What I want is the rest of it, Tiny.

But with the 20+ zones that these characters can already enter freely, making a new sewer map to get TO the Hazard Zones and such would be in-line with concept.

Make it so ANYONE can use those sewers and you might wind up with more people in the Hazard Zones as they explore the new sewers... Specifically if it has new villaingroups or encounters and some new tilesets.

-Rachel-

Tiny... Don't take this the wrong way but.. ahh... >.>

That's the whole freaking point.

Most players -won't- bother if they have to run through the sewers to get to a Hazard Zone... They still have over 20 OTHER zones to play in.

It makes Hazard zones a difficult and interesting place to go. And since the Hollows has a Hospital in it, now, and Dark Astoria as well... I don't see why the Devs -don't- give all the Hazard Zones their own Hospitals.

In which case this would be a fantastic set up. Sure it's hard to get in, easy to get out, but you don't have to hit the sewers every time you get defeated.

Of course you could just head in on a team of heroes, ditch, and go about your business...

Also! Striga would -NOT- be gated beyond Level. Even as a Hazard Zone it has no guards. just two surly looking sailors next to the cargo ship door.

-Rachel-

Not... Quite, Azzerath.

A Vigilante is someone who works outside of the law to do the right thing, usually. In htis particular case I'm casting Vigilantes as characters who walk the line between good and evil. People who will work as Heroes in the Isles and Villains in PAragon... Or vice versa without issue.

Batman is an example of a Vigilante/ So is 'The Spirit' (HORRIBLE Movie, BTW) in that neither of them accept the 'Law' as 'Justice'. Batman knows criminals can get away with stuff in court, so he finds them, catches them red-handed, and keeps doing it 'til it sticks.

Of course, Officially the Police are obliged to arrest Batman on sight. But they don't.

Why?

Fear? Respect? The knowledge that even if his methods are questionable he is still trying to help?

So no. I wouldn't have Vigilantes hunted down.

Sorry to double-post!

-Rachel-

The only problem I have with that, Prodiguy, is that I'm doing my best to add another element of difficulty into getting into the Hazard Zones. For Immersion's sake, if nothing else. These characters already have free access to, as I said before, 20 city zones.

I feel that requiring a short mission to get 'keyed' up for Hazard Zones is sufficient... but not less than that for my purposes. Initially I wanted them only able to enter through a sewer map or through the help of a registered hero.

The Mission idea was my farthest reaching compromise on that issue, but noone seems really willing to meet me in the middle, there. Risk Versus Reward is why I'm putting the Hazard Zones into such a difficult state. You've got all these other zones to play in, zones other heroes and villains will NEVER go to. You have to 'pay' for it, somehow.

-Rachel-

Break In... Hmm...!

I've got it! =-3

Break In: Starting Mission arc for Vigilante characters

After Break Out or Outbreak you are sent to a specific contact in Galaxy City or Mercy Island. On speaking to that contact he or she will inform your character about a nearby file-server containing information on Metahumans and Superbeings all over the globe.

For Paragonians this would involve an instanced version of Atlas Park, at night. You have to get past the guards (low level PPD on par with Hellions, no Lieutenants or Bosses) and then sneak into the Registrar's files to add in a falsified folder, that you make up on the fly (Giving yourself a hero identity in the form of a bio, 'origin' and so forth) MAYBE set it up to show an alternate name, probably not!

For Villains it would involve slipping into the Fortress on Northern Mercy Island and planting a similar folder in a filing cabinet in an Arachnos Base.

Either way you designate yourself as a 'Hero with Destined One Potential'.

Opinions?
-Rachel-

Mmmmaybe... But I'm not sure?

Heroes have level-gated access to 8 hazard zones and unrestricted access to 12 city zones.

Villains have level gated access to 2 zones and unrestricted access to only 7 city zones.

Both sides have gated access to 3 Co-Op zones and unrestricted access to 1.

And Both Sides also have level gated access to 4 PvP zones.

The Vigilante, as I've outlined it, would have unrestricted access to a whopping 20 zones and level gated access to 3 Co-Op zones and 4 PvP zones. Meanwhile they have an additional gating requirement on 10 other zones.

There is also the 3 Shadow Shard zones that I haven't discussed as Gated or otherwise.

But this still makes the Vigilante able to enter 20 city zones freely, The PvP zones, and 3 Co-Op zones without an issue. It just puts an extra gate on The Abyss, Eden, Perez, Boomtown, Striga, and others.

The questions that stand before us are:
How gamebreaking are those 10 zones to a soloist Vigilante?
And would making a Sewer Run (or alternate ferry route) to get there kill the game for them?

Personally I don't think so.

-Rachel-

Ooo! Markets! I've got the SIMPLEST answer to that! =-3

They have no choice but to use the Black Market.

It's the fastest and simplest way to handle it. BUT! I would put a BM and a WW in the D. It also might be a good idea to put a Black Market in King's Row, perhaps?

As for the forged ID... That would make an -AWESOME- low-level or mid-level storyarc! I really do like that idea.

-Rachel-

I dunno, Tiny... The Hazard Zones are guarded by Officers and gated for levels specifically. The in Character reason lies in the 'Security Level Restrictions' of the zone. A Vigilante HAS no Hero License. He or she is outside the system and thus cannot benefit from -all- the perks thereof. In exchange they get other perks, like being able to travel between Paragon and the Isles.

As for Influence and Infamy... Hmm... I suppose they'd have a running total of both? For all the good they do in Paragon they gain influence. For all the evil in the Isles they gain infamy, and vice versa (evil in PC = Infamy, too!) But since you're talking about shopkeepers... Well... I think Infamy covers buying from a shop just as well as Influence does. The store owner buckles before the might of your evilness etc.. etc.

And there's also the Sewers idea for getting into Hazard Zones, too!

-Rachel-

Ahhh... It's okay. SOMEBODY had to like the VEAT Stuff. *ducks!*

Seriously, though. I liked most of it. I hated that it was so brief. 2-3 missions every 10 levels hardly seems to matter, really. My only real complaints lie in their brevity and in the final one. God that was annoying.

Alright. So a Trial that goes for both sides...I'd suggest putting it into Siren's Call. You need to be level 20 to get in, which is a solid gate for 'competent' players, I think. The Trial itself should have only one mission located inside Siren's.

The Trial is one mission with a timer: Co Op. Speaking with the Trial Contact tells you that you must not be a Hero or Villain to pursue this path. You'll have to set your allegiances aside to accomplish your goals. Accepting this alters your flag to 'Vigilante'.

The Single Mish itself would be dangerous, difficult, and arduous. Likely involving recovering Sunburst's energy to keep either Paragon's Heroes or the Isle's Villains from gathering and using the residual energy. I'd suggest having to fight against Back Alley Brawler AND Black Scorpion to complete this trial, as you learn that each of them has collected some of Sunburst's residual energy.

BaBs reason is an attempt to put him back together. Which will make him immediately go Nova again, destroying much of Paragon. While Scorpion's intent is to take the power for himself and harness it to make his own power far greater than any hero or villain, allowing him to take over much of the world.

You have one hour to defeat both NPCs and collect the residual energy from Sunburst's explosion. However the two are on a Bee-line course towards each other and WILL try to beat the other. Should BaBs get the final hit on Scorp or vice-versa the mission ends in failure.

Opinions?
-Rachel-

Hmmm... Split the Difference? Have to have a level 25 villain and a Level 25 hero in order to gain access? Or perhaps just make it a paid expansion?

As for the reason you're on the list... hmm... Could just have it be a shock to the character. Have an Arbiter point you over to the contact who lets you pick your patron and then he pretends it's -always- been so. Through that method the only way to AVOID being a Destined One is to head to Paragon. Could be an interesting Impetus for a Dominator, Brute, or Stalker to flee the Isles?

Though I wouldn't be -averse- to another Villain storyline... It'd have to be MUCH better than the VEAT ones... Those were lame.

ESPECIALLY the Final Mission!!! I REALIZE that Pandora's box is an in-game reason for superpowers. But Doctor Brainstorm and Powerset Proliferation should NEVER have been put into the game's storyline... *sigh*

-Rachel-

The Archetype Choices

Picking six ATs was the hardest part of the whole thing. But then I stopped and asked myself: Which Heroic Archetypes have the best power-selection and styling to head Villainside? Which Villains would do the same?

For Scrappers I thought of Wolverine and Wildcat. Two bare-knuckle brawlers who love a good fight and don't care where it is. Wildcat has done some underground arena fighting and Wolverine has been questionable. So going to the Rogue Isles to work as a Vigilante (outside the law, but trying to help) seemed reasonable for them.

For Stalkers it was more a choice of form over function. Various Ninja and Stealthy villains have walked the path of 'Good' before. Helping out those who needed it so long as it does not conflict with their primary interests.

Brutes. The Hulk. He's destructive, wild, chaotic, and dangerous, but he means well. Another example would be Da Funk, an Explosive personality strongman convict who is willing to be a good guy to woo Power Girl. She never gave him the chance 'cause he tried to kiss her, but... You get the idea.

When I thought of a Control based class I thought of Psylocke. She's heavy on the melee psi and has some ability to 'hold' people in certain storylines, but she just flip-flops from good to evil SO often it's not funny!

As for Blasters it was a quick decision on the need for a 'Ranged Damage' AT, which Blaster alone fits the true nature of. Various villainous and heroic ranged attackers have wandered the Vigilante's path for decades. Some have been solid villains. Just thought I'd open that one up.

For Defenders I wanted to have a Buff/Debuff class that walks the line. I was -thinking- about Corruptors, but it seemed a bit far. While a Defender can do Dark and Radiation powersets, which is borderline 'Evil'. So a Heroic Archetype that could be construed as 'Evil' on occasion. Soul-sucking darkness and Radiation Poisoning seemed big hits with me. How often has Raven of the Teen Titans or Cloak of Cloak and Dagger been on the borderline?

I chose to do Three and Three to keep things fair between the sides while also covering each of the five primary roles.

Hazard Zones
I'd actually forgotten about the high level contacts sending Vigilantes to the zones. I suppose that would be a different story... I'd still suggest that Vigilantes get their 'Hazard Zone' missions outside of the zones. Perhaps by traveling through the Sewer system to get to their destination? Alternatively making a few more rooms in the Sewer Network with exits into the Hazard Zones would be fantastic.

It would make it a BIT more difficult for the Vigilantes, but with the ease of their travel otherwise, I think it balances out.

Task Forces
It would be to keep 4 Vigilantes from starting a TF. Yes. However if a Hero were to come along and drop after the contact GAVE the mission the Task Force would continue: You've earned the contact's trust by performing the first task admirably.

As for my reasons: Story. Sadly that's all I have is the immersive element of being distrusted by Positron, Synapse, and the others.

Destined Ones
If you've played the Higher Level villain content you know that anyone can be a Destined One. Even someone from Paragon. I'd still limit the archetypes to their normal APP/PPP choices (no blasters with Ghost Widow powers), however. So a Dominator from Paragon who becomes a Destined One... Yeah. there ya go.

Opinions?
-Rachel-

Vigilante. A Neutral designation between hero and villain. Given the choice of 3 hero or 3 villain archetypes and able to choose between the Rogue Isles or Paragon City as a starting location.

Character is -NOT- licensed in Paragon and only has a Dossier in the Isles.

Classes available would be Blaster, Brute, Stalker, Defender, Dominator, and Scrapper.

Character would go through Outbreak or Breakout as Normal. But would be shunted off to a third contact. Someone other than Liberty, Brawler, Kalinda, or Burke. This contact would be a bit removed from the main starting area. Perhaps on the Beach behind the Fort on Mercy and in the Park south of City Hall in Atlas. For Galaxy I'd suggest behind the Galaxy Girl Statue.

This character may NEVER enter hazard zones without a teammate. They would, instead, be allowed to travel between the Isles and Paragon at will, and be allowed to do about 90% of the game's content.

For example: They cannot enter the Hollows without the supervision of a Hero of level 5 or greater. Boomtown would be Similar. Terra Volta as well. This would be to simulate 'sneaking in' while the guards at the entrance are distracted. Getting -out-, however, is not an issue and can be done solo.

Vigilantes would not be able to do a Hero or Villain specific Task Force or Strike Force without the 'Supervision' of a Hero or Villain character. For Cimerora and the RWZ they would need no supervision, however.

This gives the player an amazing level of moral flexibility and freedom in mission content choices. It does, however, hold true (or at least more true than other suggestions) to the game's core story elements.

There would be no World PvP involved with Vigilantes. Though their methods of traveling between the Isles and Paragon would be another Unique element.

To traverse from Paragon to the Isles a Vigilante must enter a PvP or Cooperative zone and activate the 'Turncoat' power. Which allows them to swap their designation from Hero to Villain and vice versa. This is also possible to do inside the Pocket D. The power itself is on a 10 second recharge, but during and after combat of any kind it is suppressed for 15 minutes.

Through these 'Bridge' zones the Vigilante has amazing travel ability, able to traverse massive distances and borders on a whim. The Ability to turn on friends and side with Foes through the Turncoat power.

Opinions?
-Rachel-

I also find i13 PvP to be at least a bit... Liberating.

Now I can run into the zones without fear of insta-death, and actually fight for more than 3 seconds without spamming inspirations and holding down the space bar.

I really hated watching the other heroes and villains bounce around the PvP zones like amphetamine-fueled bunnies. It made PvP a chaotic mess of particle effect trails and cowardly fleeing.

-Rachel-

Take a look Here and Here.

Using the example of 100 attacks incoming the Shields character rather glaringly underperforms in his primary purpose compared to the Energy aura character. That doesn't include end usage or other abilities, however.

As has been stated previously Broadsword/shields is a wonderful pairing thanks to Parry, though Katana has a nearly identical power as well, it's not nearly as popular due to it's strange appearance.

That said: I like shields as it stands. It has nice defense without being Super Reflexes for tanks and the damage resistance and +HP really help me a lot (50 shield/SS tank on Test, haven't gone live yet)

I don't feel the End hit -too- terribly until my rage-crash. But even then it can be mitigated by slotting for End in attacks as well as defensives. Teaming with a Kinetics or High Level Empath, however, will obliterate your endurance issues utterly.

-Rachel-

[ QUOTE ]
Just as a general point:

"Never talk about a set as if you understand it without spending at least three months in-game playtime with it, and have run it for all 50 levels."

New players can have valid viewpoints, but rarely will they have a fully cohesive view of powers and how they react throughout the full course of the game.

This isn't elitism, it's simply a fact of experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

.... That -is- elitist...

I played for 2 full years before I finally buckled down and took a character to 50. Each character I made had obvious Advantages and Disadvantages. I didn't need a level 50 to tell me how to make my character or 'Build For Success'.

I've never resorted to using a guide on my builds, either... Getting to level 50 isn't the only way to learn. Some people are just better at math than others. Some are more tactically minded. Still others are capable of completing a task through sheer and determined stubborn.

I might fall into the last catergory.. >.>

-Rachel-

I finally got a good name AND costume for my new Shield/SS tanker!

Here she is!

The Cobalt Constable!

*loves!*
-Rachel-

Is that a Racist Slur?! Just 'cause I'm from Georgia. Isn't it... ISN'T IT!?

Hmmm... Enjoys long walks on the beach.

Supergroup Name: The Paragon Protectorate (tentatively)

Public Relations: No website yet. Still working on details.

Peak Teaming Hours: Planned Peak from 2pm-12am CST. With some players on at other times as well

Amount of PvP: None -planned- at the moment. But personal choice and RP permitting.

Amount of Powerleveling: None Planned. Supergroup to start at level 1 for optimal teaming and equality.

Amount of Drama: Low Tolerance for OOC Drama.

Size of Base: As big as we can afford as soon as we can afford it.

Requirements: Must RP. Must be willing to deal with in character issues and separate OOC and IC.

Other: Currently debating Super Group Costumes. This group will be runing as a static team(s) concept. The idea is to team early and often with other people at level 1 and have a great time all the way to and past 50.

Leader and Recruiting Officers: Currently @Rache'thulu

Voice Chat: I'm not paying for it! But feel free if you want.

Preffered Method of Contact: Either in game tell or on the forum for recruitment.

Guild Description: A Roleplaying series of static and semi-static teams within a supergroup built specifically for issue 13. The day Issue 13 launches I will either make the supergroup or have a friend make it. Add in all interested parties, and then we'll begin running missions, sewers, and street sweeps.

The Roleplaying purpose of this group is based on the City Council of Paragon ratifying a locally legislative bill which allows the formation of a superteam. This superteam will be payrolled to the City itself and will use taxpayer dollars to support the PPD in the handling of greater than average threats.

With the Rikti returning in force and other large scale horrors assailing Paragon in recent months Vanguard and other organizations such as Oroborous have been taking heroes of the streets to handle other issues. The City needs it's heroes. And it needs them now more than ever.

This team of heroes will be brought together to form a shield to defend Paragon against all threats. It will become a model of civic duty and heroic works. Characters are expected to be moral and forthright in their dealings.

Silver Age and Early Bronze Age heroes will be the core of the group. 'Iron Age' heroes (Spawn, Deadpool, Punisher) need not apply.

Ergo it is 'weak' *laughs* I did my best. But it's not Filet Mignon, it's more like Beefaroni. It's good Beefaroni.... but not the Porterhouse -she- put on the table!

-Rachel-

I feel Sooooo weak just putting this up. Aisynia really did do an awesome.

Swallow

-Rachel-