Steampunkette

I think it should be standard, Not a reward.

-Rachel-

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Which is why we have to figure out where (Fifth Column & Recluse (because of Nemesis[and possibly some other time-related villain groups or time-appropriate ones])) all this modern is leaking into the past from.

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Fixt! =-3

-Rachel-

[/ QUOTE ]Nice

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Wewt!

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Which is why we have to figure out where (Fifth Column) all this modern is leaking into the past from.

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Fixt! =-3

-Rachel-

Best thing to do is drop it. If he got modded it was for a reason. Let's not rub salt in wounds!

-Rachel-

That's definitely a good point. Nemesis and the Family would both make great Patrons. But so would dozens of other villain groups in the past that never made it to modern day.

of course, the Devs could (and likely would) sift through and pick out the best groups for having Patrons spring from them...

Of course that would be totally unfair for Heroes... So I'd like to propose that heroes gain Patrons as well in the alternate timeline and current time frame as well. thus APPs should be proliferated to Villains, of course...

So yes. More Patrons for both sides.

And maybe make an Epic Archytype or two that are unlocked by certain badges or something... ATs that span both hero and Villainside. Could even make them 'Incarnates'. An origin AND an Archetype, rolled into one.

Wishful thinking... but yeah!


And States? I think the Time Stream theory is fine and all, but it's completely irrelevant.

Just don't ALLOW the players to change anything. For all intents and purposes everything you DO in the past 'already happened' from the point of awareness where you came from.

Examples:
A Hero uses time travel to attempt to save Hero 1 and the Omega Team. He goes back and winds up heading to the Rikti Homeworld, moments too late. He winds up mediporting back to the present just before the bomb goes off, without Hero 1.

Another unrelated hero goes back to prevent the Rikti invasion by destroying the Superadine stores before Brawler locates the creation factory, which leads to the research into Portals. The hero goes back in time and smashes up three different labs. But, as fae would have it, his information on where the Regulators attacked was wrong! And Brawler and company still wind up finding a Dyne lab.

For the most part that's HOW time travel works in the CoH/V universe. You can never change anything because you're already destined to go back into the past and contribute to the event occurring anyway.

-Rachel-

*edit* Another, further thought: If you go back in time to stop an event from happening (Hero 1's death for example) and accomplish it, there is a Paradox. Because in the future you wouldn't go back in time to save him. Since you didn't go back in time he died. Which leads us back around to the first part. An infinite loop of causality that never ends.

Hence I prefer to assume that going back in time to change the past is, ultimately, futile. By going into the past you're actually -causing- the things to happen.

If you can set up a power so that it targets right behind and enemy you could make a pet that uses a KB aura, pushing the foe to you.

With pet-placement KB is based on the power's point of Origin, rather than your player's location.

-Rachel-

Really... There isn't. But I don't think there is a way to place a ground target area of effect 'behind' a target, either. A TP Foe with a decent stun magnitude might be good? Kinda leans on the Wormhole power, but with single-target it'd work and be an interesting power. Though I'd still suggest the single target hold come first.

-Rachel-

This is much better! =-3

Though I think it would be better to make the Vortex a ground target AOE KB power rather than 'appears behind the enemy'. I'd also move it back in the set, above Fastchain and Force Sphere.

Other than that I like it!

-Rachel-

Hmmm... Arachnos in the 40s was just a shadowy group with no real goal other than survival of the fittest...

Then again I suppose there could be some idealists in the past who eventually meet Recluse in a level 20 Arc or something, becoming their Crab or Fortunata selves after traveling to the future...?

Though with that much involvement it kinda kills the other plan: Fifth Column Patron Power Pools.

That's right! New PPPs for Villains who go through the villainous historical arcs, rather than going through Recluse's cronies!

Though I think I'd keep the heroes lock in the APPs >.>

-Rachel-

Well... a Natural Hero doesn't mean 'Normal Human' it means 'Natural to the race'. So Superman's flight is natural for a Kryptonian.

The Origins are also the Origin of the core powers of a character, or core abilities, or just the core ideal of the character.

So I'm a Martial Artist/Willpower scrapper with a Jetpack. The Jetpack is Tech, but I'm still natural.

Unless they come up with individual power origins, we'll just have to deal with the genericness.

-Rachel-

Later than that... Crab Spider packs didn't develop in the 50s... And Khelds didn't really show up, either.

So I imagine the VEATs and Khelds would be locked into the 'Neutral' contact. OR Couldn't start there. Instead you'd get NEW Epic ATs for playing there. *shrugs* Not -sure- on the idea, either.

-Rachel-

Hence why I suggested that some heroes and villains might have been BORN in the past and come to the future later.

The whole thing with the straight Hero and straight Villain contacts at level 1 presume you're NOT a time traveler, but a native of 1940.

-Rachel-

*shrugs* Doesn't bother me whether it's 1-50 or 1-20 or 10-14 content only.

I was just coming up with an alternate method of implementing it as full game content, rather than another time-travel foray into the past which, ICly, doesn't fit a whole LOT of character concepts.

-Rachel-

I... really don't like this as a Reality altering set. =-(

It seems too 'arcane' for me. If that makes any sense? Wall of Souls, Hands of Tethys, Horde of Tethys, Liquid Light and Viscous Shadow. These all seem very much like a 'Mage' is casting them, rather than powers a reality-bending device would create. Or a Mutant, or something.

-Rachel-

It's been brought to my attention that I Failed my History of Paragon City course based on a single mistake. =-(

Atlas died on Valor Bridge in Independence Port. NOT in Atlas Park as I had originally typed.

Apologies to the City History Buffs who are going to ridicule me for the rest of my life! It has been corrected in the original post.

-Rachel-

Neither do I, really?

But it's the only way we're going to see another MASSIVE content hike. Whether it's Vigilantes (from my signature) or a Golden Age of heroes.

So far we've had one boxed expansion. It boosted our playerbase substantially, if I recall correctly. The fanfare and advertising around a new edition of City would drum up a lot of new subscribers as well as pulling lost subscribers out of the woodwork. Specifically if they see something in THIS game that none of our competition is offering (Missions in the past, Co-Op zones from level 1, Flagged 'open' PvP in the normal zones)

I could definitely see this as a future launch of another 'City of' game which expands the backstory of the City universe by going BACK to it.

Really... I think a 3rd version of the game could be wonderful... could also be dangerous as the player-base splinters further between the zones. Newbs will wind up in regular Atlas Park wondering where everyone is, for example.

So I'm not gonna say it's the best idea for the future of the game, but it's certainly not the worst!

-Rachel-

Damn it... Now I'm thinking up a story that -isn't- a Nemesis or Rikti Plot. *sighs*

The Timeline of our reality is under attack by the Fifth Column. They took a cue off of Recluse, but chose to go back BEFORE Nuclear Weapons were of major import, to take the world over back THEN! So you've got Requiem and others going back in time to meet up with various other Columnists of history, trying to help take over Paragon during the strike that Atlas fought off.

You're going through the zones fighting off various Columners, the Family, Street Gangs, and new threats that aren't even in the game, yet. Whole 'new' enemy groups that didn't make it past the 60s. Dozens of new Signature Heroes and Villains. Various 'Modern' groups foraying into the past, either stumbling through Oroborous portals or Column ones or doing it on their own (Arachnos\Aeon\Malta..?)

All during the game players who started with the 1940's contact (Hero Or Villain) don't get the Oroborous based Contacts 'til later. Sure there's SOME Co-Op, but itt's 1940s specific, and the contacts treat everyone like they're from the era. However after level 25 for Sided contacts you'll get into the Oroborous contacts and learn what's going on. Meanwhile people who chose the Oroborous contact will have neutral quests throughout, and be on a story-arc chain that leads them to the climactic finale!

The final, climactic battle for the 1940's story arcs is a MASSIVE trio of Co-Op, Hero, and Villain Taskforces that all end in the same place: Independence Port's Valor Bridge. Heroes try to save the Giant Monster level Atlas, Villains have to fight him on the side of the Column forces. Co-Op saves him for the intent of keeping history the same.

The Hero version presumes you're a 1940's hero, trying to help Atlas to stave off the Column's Rise. The last mish of the TF involves watching Atlas Fall, despite your greatest efforts. Time marches on.

The Villain version presumes you're a 1940s villain and are HELPING the Fifth Column to fight Atlas, take over, and you'll gain a position of power afterwards. The final mish of the SF ends with the Death of Atlas. But the damage is already done, and the Column is fractured. You don't get your position of power.

The Co-Op version presumes that you'll help Atlas to last as long as he can, but you -can't- save him as that would destroy the timeline (and possibly keep you from being born!). The last mish of the TF involves watching Atlas fall to the Column, then cleaning up the battlefield with a large group of NPC heroes who are all incensed at the death of Atlas.

Opinions?
-Rachel-

You.... Do realize that if you're in the closed Beta of a game you're -not- supposed to discuss it... right?

..... Just checking.

-Rachel-

Sooooo... A Second group of maps accessible through Oroborous or other means to travel back into the 40s and 50s? That's actually a pretty neat idea... Though I think Villains should receive something similar...

Unfortunately during the 1940-50s there were no mediporters: Death was a REAL danger for heroes. and the Rogue Isles were NOT a haven for Arachnos and Villains as we know them, today.

Ergo I would suggest making the 1940s-50s zones a Co-op/PvP zone. Flag yourself for PVP and you can fight anyone else who is flagged for it, high over the city streets or in the sewers. If you're NOT PvP flagged you're co-op.

Thanks to the difference in reporting (lack of digital media, television being more of a -production-, lack of major investigative advances) heroes and villains are both on the streets as Vigilantes, and it's impossible to tell the difference until the villain uses his or her powers on an 'innocent' target.

Have dozens of arcs in the 1940s for heroes, dozens for villains, and even more co-op arcs, as well. Make some of the Co-Op arcs darker and more 'evil' than others, as well.

Make each zone auto-exemp/sk PvP-enabled players to specific levels. There are no Police-Drones, so make the trains and such have the Wentworth's death-aura for NPCs only.

As for the size of the zones and borders: Use the standard 'blue walls' for the borders of zones, rather than war-Walls. There's no -REAL- separation there, but Heroes and villains just don't tend to travel past those areas of the zone.

Maybe put in forests and parks where buildings haven't been built yet. That'll allow you to shrink the zones down a -bit-.

For hospitals and such I'd suggest having the player character rez next to a hospital bed, with a nurse on hand and such. Debt wouldn't be affected and would still accrue as normal.

I'd also suggest that ALL players be given the option of STARTING in the 1940s. And given a choice of 2 contacts (hero/villain or neutral) The Neutral Starting contact assumes that you've come to the past (at level 1) to help keep the time-stream stable against forces beyond Oroborous (and is thereby a Mender) Your Hero/Villain contact assumes you're a hero or villain of the day and talks to you as such. You might be from the future, you might not.

The issues I see with it are: Developer time (EXTREMELY intensive) and money (EXTREMELY intensive) and the population shift of the playerbase. We'll be even further spread out as various players go to the 1940s and never come back.

Yeah. I'm heavily in favor of doing something like this.

-Rachel-

PLease don't get upset with me nay-saying you, again... But this won't work...

With 30% Smash/Lethal/Fire/Toxic/Energy/NegEnergy and 15% cold resistance you'll get smooshed. With the 5% (7.5% enhanced) defense you'll STILL get smooshed.

You've updated all the numbers but you're still fighting against the same several issues.

1. Soft-target taking primary aggro as the team Tanker/Scrapper
2. Focusing on PBAoE Debuffs and attacks with a Knockback Aura pushes foes away from the debuff, rendering the tanker/scrapper open for ranged attacks with no debuff.
3. Knockback aura pushes enemies out of melee range with a melee character.

I said it in the last thread and I'll say it again: This is a bad set. The names are awesome. The IDEA is awesome. The implementation needs to be dragged back and reworked fully.

Sorry. =-(
-Rachel-

One of my friends actually made a French Patriot Superheroine named La Marseillaise. REally wonderful costume, awesome styling, and a -powerful- grav/kin who went without speed boost. =-3

-Rachel-

There's a difference between wearing the flag ON your shirt and wearing the flag AS your shirt, Forbin.

I imagine capes are the same way.

-Rachel-

*stares and drools, then looks around* Hey... ummm... Aggelakis... What times are you on, again? I sent you a few global tells, but you never responded. =-(

-Rachel-

Oooooooooooooooookay.... Now show me people wearing the Russian Flag, the Afghani flag, the Spanish flag, French flag, Union Jack (that'll be easy, I think?) Portugal, Brazil (again easy!) and all the other flags of ... Well let's -just- do the United Nations!

I'm less worried about right wing America chewing hats over it than I am -other- countries screaming and raving.

America is full of iconoclasts. In some countries iconoclasts are killed for their radical ideas.

-Rachel-

Oh! I agree fully! I think the Pirate Hooks, for example, are patently silly for a superhero game!

Doesn't mean I want the costume options limited.

And if you'll scroll up to my first post in this discussion: I'm all in for the idea!

Just a little cautious over how other countries might be upset by players wearing their flags in a game. Could lead to some nifty backlash.

-Rachel-