Steampunkette

So the AT would become...

Primary: Ranged/Melee/Buff
Secondary: Defense/Control

... I don't like it. This would require the Developers to create two whole new sets of powers (at -least-) for each combination of powers (Fire/Fire/Thermal primary Fire/Fire secondary) while using the Assault sets allows them to have half their work complete and gives them someplace to proliferate Assault sets to.

In addition it also lets players fulfill the "Iceman" concept. Using one power to do multiple things. Iceman was not a controller, a scrapped, or a blaster, but could instead use his one power (Ice Generation) in many different ways. This AT idea would allow you to do that with fire, cold, energy, electricity, mental power, plant control, and mineral manipulation.

Though there are a few instances where one or two powers from the Assault or Control set could tip the balance towards "OP" one one set or set combination, but that's what testing and nerfing (or buffing) is for.

-Rachel-

Eh...

I'm all for letting players buy every "Vet Reward" package there is for $9.99 each. But they must be purchased in order, and don't come with the badge.

Why? Because all analogies are flawed. Nothing is being taken away from anyone, noone is losing anything. And anyone willing to spend $239.76 to get all the cool vet rewards is probably someone who A) Intends to play for freaking ever or B) Has a ton of cash they don't mind -wasting- on a game they don't intend to play for a long time and they'll quit since they've "Nothing to look forward to"

If a person falls into category A then we've gotten $239.76 in revenue we would not otherwise get, in addition to their $15 a month fee. This player will use their toys and enjoy them, probably for years to come before buying more vet rewards as they come out. Why do I say probably? Your mind is tricked into spending money on things you've spent money on. This is why people repair cars over and over for years on end rather than simply replacing the car. It feels like a huge investment so you continue to put more money into it.

If a person falls into category B then we've gotten $239.76 in revenue we would not otherwise get, in addition to their $15 a month fee for however long they play. If they only play for 3 months they it's still a huge net gain over what Paragon and NCSoft -would- have gotten out of them.

No. It is not like someone buying their way into a company that you've worked at for years. It's more like going to your favorite gaming shop for five or six years running. You feel you know the owner and the regulars, and you get some awesome items in tournaments you run. Then someone else walks into the shop and buys a different copy of the item you won in a tournament from behind the counter and joins in your game. Does this take anything from you? No. No it does not. It adds to the hobby, but you still -earned- yours rather than having to pay for it.

Of course, that's another mental trick that comes up pretty often. Someone else purchasing, for what appears to be less, what someone else feels they've earned. Like a boy working a paper route for a year to earn enough money to buy that Captain Commando playset with all the neat accessories. Meanwhile his rich neighbor buys the same Captain Commando Playset without earning it. The Paper Boy feels cheated, since he had to earn the money to get his toy. But in the end the Paper Boy still has his playset, the rich kid still has his playset. And all is still right in the world.

Of course this entire argument is ultimately futile, and a waste of everyone's time. So I'll suggest we all just let it die and not reply to it or any other thread with similar direction. We'll instead send PMs to the person making the suggestion, informing them of our individual opinions and the general consensus of the forums that it will never happen. Meanwhile the thread will float, gracefully to the bottom of the forums.

-Rachel-

The idea was to give them the Dominator Assault sets for their primary. So yeah, it would be feasible to remain at range against minions and lieutenants, take less damage, and only really have issues with Bosses, EBs, AVs, and special case enemies (enemies with mez protection of various kinds)

For sake of argument let's say you made an Ice Assault/Ice Alteration Leader or Marauder.

Ice Patch is a point blank area of effect power, in order to use it effectively you have to either place it and drag aggro through it, or enter into melee range and then place it.

Let's take a look at Ice Alteration's Real Numbers on it's defenses, however.

Frozen Armor grants 12.75% defense to smashing/lethal, 22.5% resistance to cold, and 9.37% fire resistance. Wet Ice drops another 22.5% resistance to Cold. Permafrost another 22.5% resistance to Cold and 9.37% resistance to fire. 67.5% Cold resistance, 18.74% Fire resistance, and 12.75% defense to smashing lethal... A fairly weak set without the use of Ice Patch to KD enemies pretty consistently. It's also why I gave them an AoE Sleep rather than an AoE immobilize, to mitigate some more of the incoming damage rather than rely on (enhanced) Capped ice resistance, 28% fire resistance, and 19% smashing/lethal defense.

You're going to fight a lot more smashing/lethal enemies than cold ones. And both Energy and Psi damage are more common than Ice.

-Rachel-

AT: Leader/Marauder

Overview.
The Leader/Marauder AT is a combination design. Ranged/Melee for a primary with Defense/Control for their secondary. The method used for this design is a whole new secondary powerset build and the Primary being Dominator "Domination" sets. The AT will use both passive and active defenses in combat to survive, while pelting enemies at range or thrashing them in melee.

AT Multipliers
Ranged Damage: 0.85 (Between Peacebringer and Dominator)
Melee Damage: 1.15 (Between Dominator and Scrapper)
Defense Modifiers: As Scrapper
Control Modifiers: As Controller
HP Scale: As Scrapper

These numbers increase the Leader/Marauder's melee damage compared to a Dominator while lowering their ranged damage only slightly. They are given medium defenses, and strong control effects. However neither their Defense or Control effects are comprehensive. This means that while the player has controls they likely won't be able to stack them, and while they have some baseline defenses they won't be well-defended in melee. This can be achieved by building secondary powersets which contain 4 control powers (Single Target Hold, Area of Effect Immobilization or Sleep, AoE Hold, and Signature Control) and 4 Defensive powers (Baseline Toggle, Mez Protection Toggle, Taunt Toggle, Baseline Automatic Power) And either a Controller Pet or a Tier 9 defensive power. It should be noted that the three Baseline control effects would not contain damage components (single target Hold, AoE Sleep/Immobilize, or AoE Hold). The following example combines Invulnerability with Gravity Control.

Gravitic Alteration
Tier 1: Temporary Invulnerability
Tier 2: Gravity Distortion
Tier 3: Crushing Field
Tier 4: Unyielding
Tier 5: Resist Physical Damage
Tier 6: Gravity Distortion Field
Tier 7: Invincibility
Tier 8: Wormhole
Tier 9: Unstoppable

As you can see, the set would resist smashing and lethal damage just as well as any other invulnerable scrapper, but would rely more heavily on control effects versus other damage types in most cases.

An Example of a set which ends with a pet would be Ice Alteration.

Ice Alteration
Tier 1: Frozen Armor
Tier 2: Block of Ice
Tier 3: Flash Freeze
Tier 4: Wet Ice
Tier 5: Permafrost
Tier 6: Glacier
Tier 7: Ice Slick
Tier 8: Icicles
Tier 9: Jack Frost

As you can see the set is relatively "Light" on defenses by comparison to Gravitic Alteration. Lacking a Tier 9 defensive power, it uses a large AoE Knockdown effect to increase it's survivability, added to more damage and minor control from the Jack Frost Pet.

I'd also like to suggest Fire Alteration (Fire Armor/Fire Control), Plant Alteration (Regeneration/Plant Control), And Stone Alteration (Stone Armor/Earth Control) all recieve pet powers. While Mental Alteration (Willpower/Mind Control) and Electrical Alteration (Electric Armor/Electrical Control) receives the Tier 9 Defensive treatment. Regeneration, lacking any toggles aside from it's mez protection, will gain a self-heal and a self rez, instead.

So without further ado, here are the remaining sets as designed.

Fire Alteration
Tier 1: Fire Shield
Tier 2: Char
Tier 3: Fire Cages
Tier 4: Plasma Shield
Tier 5: Temperature Protection
Tier 6: Cinders
Tier 7: Blazing Aura
Tier 8: Flashfire
Tier 9: Fire Imps

Nature Alteration
Tier 1: Reconstruction
Tier 2: Strangler
Tier 3: Roots
Tier 4: Integration
Tier 5: Resilience
Tier 6: Vines
Tier 7: Carrion Creepers
Tier 8: Revive
Tier 9: Flytrap

Stone Alteration
Tier 1: Rock Armor
Tier 2: Fossilize
Tier 3: Stone Cages
Tier 4: Rooted
Tier 5: Stone Skin
Tier 6: Volcanic Gasses
Tier 7: Mud Pots
Tier 8: Quicksand
Tier 9: Animate Stone

Mental Alteration:
Tier 1: Mind Over Body
Tier 2: Dominate
Tier 3: Mass Hypnosis
Tier 4: Indomitable Will
Tier 5: High Pain Tolerance
Tier 6: Total Domination
Tier 7: Rise To The Challenge
Tier 8: Mass Confusion
Tier 9: Strength of Will

Electrical Alteration
Tier 1: Charged Armor
Tier 2: Electric Shackles
Tier 3: Electrifying Fences
Tier 4: Static Shield
Tier 5: Grounded
Tier 6: (Insert AoE Electric Hold name here after Going Rogue Announcement)
Tier 7: Lightning Field
Tier 8: (AoE Electric Control power, preferably with a repeating effect)
Tier 9: Power Surge

As a bonus idea; a Gravity Control/Energy Aura powerset would also be lovely. And as a twist of strangeness let's go ahead and make it the one with the highest survivability of the Alteration powersets since Energy has no taunt aura and no self-rez power.

Energy Alteration
Tier 1: Kinetic Shield
Tier 2: Gravity Distortion
Tier 3: Crushing Field
Tier 4: Entropy Shield
Tier 5: Dampening Field
Tier 6: Gravity Distortion Field
Tier 7: Power Shield
Tier 8: Wormhole
Tier 9: Overload

Now.. For the Inherent power.

Leaders, being heroes, would gain a constant +15% HP buff while solo. For every teammate added (max of 3) they lose 5% of their HP buff and instead grant the team +2% Accuracy and +3% damage per teammate, maximum of 5 contributing teammates. They also gain this buff.

Marauders, being villains, would gain a 15% endurance discount while solo. With each teammate they added their own damage would increase by 5%, maximum of 5 contributing teammates. Teammates gain 1/2 of this buff.

Now... What do people think of this idea? Any suggestions, ideas, criticisms, or points that should be clarified?

-Rachel-

Shield defense is thematically inappropriate because you use Hide based on your powers. If your only defensive power is "I use a shield" it's "I duck behind my shield!" Which blocks you from the targets sight. But if a floating shield, unwielded by a person floated up towards a Longbow agent... It just seems ridiculous. I can buy "Dark" since most of the game is shadow-heavy. I can buy ninjitsu and energy, even SR. But seriously. Floating customizable hunk of metal doesn't draw attention?

Or, worse, Facepalm Defense. "I hide behind my hand!" You even wrote "Peek A Boo!" in the description of the power! Are all the enemies in the game infant level intelligence, now? Where putting a hand in front of your face is enough to convince them you've gone away?

Either every NPC in the game (and PCs but only during PvP) is an utter retard, which invalidates most plots, stories, arcs, and efforts perpetuated by Nemesis (i.e. all of them) or the player gets to try and come up with a mystical and fun reason why putting their GIANT hand in front of their face makes noone else capable of seeing them.

How about a strange and odd suggestion! Try developing a stalker set -without- hide! Give it 2 placate powers, instead. And have one of the placate powers basically revolve around interposing that titanic arm between yourself and your target. Now you can freely give the set -more- defense than any other stalker gets, since he's got to survive combat until most enemies are down before he can use Assassin's Strike. One placate instead of Hide, and one Placate from their primary powerset. It might be ugly. But it's better than Facepalm.

-Rachel-

Forbin... You're honestly saying I need proof or evidence of my own opinions, beliefs, and conjecture? That's patently ridiculous. And if you are going to be a proctor you're well aware of that.

It is my opinion that this set is a bad idea. Thematically bad. I also believe that the devs haven't put in Shield or Fire defense for stalkers because they are thematically inappropriate. I believe the "Mechanically Inappropriate" argument is faulty since the Devs obviously have no problem altering a set (Dark Armor lost it's AoE damage effect and it's stealth power in exchange for Hide and an always on defense boost)

Sure, BaBs has said he wouldn't mind animating a fire stalker defense set, but it's not his decision. And the evidence presented that Castle might consider it was a sweeping generalization in which he could have been talking about any one, two, three, or however many of the powerset proliferation suggestions in the post.

If this were an argument about simple fact, sure. I could defend my position, and he could defend his. But it's purely a matter of opinion. And my opinion is that the devs shouldn't waste time on thematically inappropriate sets. Specifically the Facepalm set. And that is what I will, forever, call it. If it is implemented I will -still- call it Facepalm Defense.

-Rachel-

The Onus of proof lies on the person presenting it as part of their position.

-Rachel-

Okay. So BaBs actually said "I could See That" and Castle (the guy who's opinion mattered) said "Sure" to a large list of things which Shields and Fire were both on. I'll give you about 1/2 credit on that one. The half being on Fire.

-Rachel-

No. I don't think it's a moot point.

I think the reason those two were put in was for the same reason Super Reflexes was burnt to the fooundation and got toys to be called "Ninjitsu". They didn't have enough stalker sets, yet, and made the incredibly odd decision to toss those two in, regardless of their not making sense.

That is not carte blanche to continue doing it. Otherwise you'd already have Shield and Fire for stalkers.

-Rachel-

*Facepalm*

You can't see me!

*peeks* Did it work?

-Rachel-

Actually, No. I hadn't. >.>

And I have to reply: So what? That doesn't change a whole heck of a lot. It could still be a gigantic tuning fork set to Shivan frequency going "HEY! WE'RE OVER HERE! Drop in and say hi!" Even if that's not it's original design.

-Rachel-