Starsman

I was thinking more in the line of damage simply vanishing, percentage increasing with the ammount of allies in range.

I agree, but given the way the devs [must?] work chances are we will see another GDN-ED-DefFix series of patches (where we wont see the buff until months after the nerf chain) where we see Gauntlet nerfed in an issue (unknown to us since they never told us,) Threat nerfed in the next one (we did were told about that one,) Taunt nerfed perhaps in Issue 8 or bit afterwards, and tankers given love in Issue 9.

As for reverse bodyguard, it would not work just as is, extra damage mitigation would be needed for us to survive a share of the team mate's unmitigated damage, off course, I do have an idea that may work perfectly for that, and will be posting on it Soon (tm), even if its just for educational purposes.

1) The pool powers that have taunt are obvious bugs, they most likely missed them while "fixing" them for AV fights.

2) Don’t get too attached to taunt, this whole thing makes no sense if they are to leave taunt as is. I predict taunt will suffer changes too. Most likely direct taunt powers were not nerfed because then they would be entirely useless in AV fights and that would be bad. At least they can claim normal attacks still do damage, but what would they do with Taunt? I predict Taunt triggering AV Taunt suppression to prevent perma-taunt in the future.

3) The role of the tanker is similar to the role of the defender: he is there to keep the team save and do damage. The tanker does much more damage than the defender and has the bonus of being extremely survivable, so he should obviously not be as good at keeping the team safe as the defender.

4) The tanker is meant to keep the team safe mainly with the use of his own body and melee power. This does not necessarily means keeping aggro, although its the main way the tanker can keep the team alive as the game stands now.

I personally am very exited to see what the devs will do next. This MAY finally get the tanker rid of the Aggro Holding Bot role and into a more exiting play style, then again, it may just nerf us and leave us worse than we already are.

I say toon because I refuse to say "my digital polygonal super hero avatar representation"

Well its 21 if you preorder as you get exclusive code for Silver Surfer.

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My guess is that "Marvel Ulmitate Alliance" is a logical step toward an online version of that game, which may be all the MO version turns out to be. After all that game will have 140 signature heroes available for teaming at release (MUA, not the MO).

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BTW, I was just on an EB store and the game features 20 characters you can team with, the 140 signature heroes available is listed as "to interact with", so those will be NPCs.

The only way to avoid gimpness is to force powers into the player that are granted automaticaly at levelups, and even then, the gimp may still not even use them :P

All in all, i ponder what SOE is planning to do with their DC comics MMO...

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*Bzzzzt* wrong answer. Here's our lovely parting gift.

Champions is the origin, like most of the terms people use to describe superheroes from an RPG perspective.

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Well i really dont like pen and paper rpgs, never palyed any [superheroes one]. I know it was Champions only by name but i also tought Champions was a Marvel Comics PnP game.

Oh well... tanks still should be able to blast huge nukes!

Dude, everyone knows that the tank is the one that can take damage like no one else and shoot for insane damage with ranged nukes

*Bricks comes from some Marvel Comics pen and paper RPG btw

Thats an issue I have heard many complain off lately, gauntlet being working intermitently or something.

However about the quote (asuming AV agro loss is a bug) truth is you dont need gauntlet to keep that single AV as single target taunting built in the powers and taunt auras, that also would have touch-taunt without gauntlet, would still do the job. So thats not Gauntlet working there, a Brute would be able to do just the same.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

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THat is my choice of slotting now isn't it? you are saying that it is wrong to 3 slot for recharge and 3 slot for taunt? And it is very likely. Test it on the Test server sometime.

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1) have tested it (provoke actually works better if you do plan to do this as it hits 10 targets, just also add accuracy there somehow)
2) with taunt it was not something manegable

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And I have pointed out that your statement is untrue. I do not need gauntlet to hold argo. Is it fun? No but I do not NEED gauntlet to hold argo. If I play a taunt-bot, espically an Invul/*, I will gain no benifit from Gauntlet

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I honestly hate saying this but since i know how i hate it to be told to anyone but did you actually read what i posted? did you read this you just quoted:

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Anyways the point is Gauntlet IS designed for you to be able to use your primary to soak damage, in that its working as designed, its just overkill since you already can reach the taunt cap easily without it.

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And back in the day, where people wanted to get a lot of agro and herd and it was viewed "ok", in that day all the changes that were done to agro was to stop over reliance on pool power provoke. The taunt made into aoe was one but the attacks each taunting endless enemies also allowed you to go without it without having to spam anything.

Same way they been noticing that those pool powers (air sup and Punch or Kick) they keept on their attack chain dont really get affected by it? Or you mean the rare cases where they dont notice how Epic Pool powers ranged attacks dont do it either? Because rarely do people notice this, heck, some even dispute these powers ARE doing it while they are definitively not.

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Taunt or provoke can, even slowly, get all the argo you can handle. Four taunts, at different groups, will put me over the limit. I can use the aura power of my primary to keep them there. Gaunlet helps will all but Invul in that case.


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1) not unless you heavily slot them for recharge, even then maybe nto likely. Turn off auras and only use that single 5 target taunt power and try to keep 17 mobs agroed on you.
2) you just broke your own statement by mentioning the aura

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You need to go back to what Gauntlet was made for, which was to give tankers the appearence of doing their job by being a threat ( i.e. using their secondaries to do damage). In this case, for players that want to use it, it is successful. I can jump around and gather and hold argo by wacking mobs. As an Invul/* I can also just taunt/provoke and do the same thing without Gauntlet.

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It was made for:

1) help tanks keep agro without going to pool powers
2) give tankers the option of holding agro without needing to spam provoke

Before this every attack the tanker tossed meant he stoped spamming provoke (that was usualy 3 sloted for recharges and 3 for duration... yikes)


Anyways the point is Gauntlet IS designed for you to be able to use your primary to soak damage, in that its working as designed, its just overkill since you already can reach the taunt cap easily without it.

Taunt or provoke on their own wont get you all the agro you want to actually use that primary. You need your attacks' taunt (specialy the AoE attacks) for this. Im not saying you need the AoE taunt on every hit (altough it helps a bit) as i myself stated already all you need is a taunt aura and a single AoE attack.

Gauntlet in no way helps you use your secondary, but it does is a reward for using your secondary, in a way. Just like Supremacy, the mastermind inherent, gives their pets a buff as a reward for the mastermind risking his skin in the middle of agro range, and blasters get rewarded with Defiance for taking damge, something they would normaly at all costs avoid. Kheledian's inherent gives random buffs that in no direct way enhance their roles, they simply get rewarded for teaming with others and so on and so on.

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Part of the problem is there is a lot of confusion on what Gauntlet is. My understanding is that the AOE powers mentioned above, Auras, the Taunt Power, temp powers are *not* using Gauntlet at all. Only some single target attacks use gauntlet. Gauntlet is a *small* aoe taunt bubble around a single target when you hit the target and your power is one that makes use of it.

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Gauntlet is a generic name for a variety of powers which all include an inherent 'Taunt' effect. The text says "Each time the Tanker attacks, he enrages the target, and those around him, enticing them to attack the Tanker."

So, what is an attack?
* Any of your Melee Powers which damage a target, and many that simply apply a Status Effect. Single Target attacks are limited to 5 critters effected per attack. PBAoE's such as Whirling Mace are limited to the number of critters that take damage -- in this case, up to 10 critters.
* Any 'Aura' powers you may have, such as Icicles or Invincibility.

Note that there is no distinction between Primary and Secondary powersets, Epic Powersets or Pool Powers? These all have Gauntlet on them, to one extent or another (Pool Powers version is limited to 1 target, and only the direct attacks have it.)

If you are dealing with +3's or higher, it may be worthwhile to slot a Taunt enhancer or two into the powers you are using. They *do* help.

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Here's my problem: Gauntlet has NOTHING to do/enhance our Primary, which is DEFENSE. A tanker has a DEFENSE primary, not an Argo primary. We are the only AT who's inherint does NOT enhance our PRIMARIES!

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Even if gauntlet is ok, this is so true.....

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Even if it is true its not really an argument, inherents are not really there to boost your primaries directly. BUT Gauntlet is there with the intention of helping you to use your primary in battle so in that sense the inherent is fine. It just is not needed taking into account brutes can do it just as fine.

How about saying you THINK they are not playing the AT they think they are playing.

I am sure I am playing the AT I want to play, and I know I am associating it with the same thing the devs themselves associated the AT with in the comic book world.

No one here is complaining about being a meat shield (well some people do but that’s the minority), the reason people complain about Gauntlet being useless is because it IS useless.

By definition, brutes do not have gauntlet, yet every attack they land can taunt. So by definition you can take Gauntlet way and we still will be able to keep agro with a combination of AoE attacks and taunt auras, and easily get the agro cap.

So yes, Gauntlet is useless because we can easily get to the agro cap without it, not to mention as a meat shield role it does not work. At high levels the game is plagued with AoE attacks, and being able to taunt means nothing because the AoE will still harm your team mates and kill them often, unless they have support that on itself make the tanker redundant.

I was here since Issue one. I know what gauntlet did and it didn’t do what you say. It just allowed us to herd and that’s it. As it stands, go back in time to Issue 1 and 2 and we would be able to keep the agro cap under control just as fine as we do now, actually, better, even if we had to take a pool power.

And reinforcement: you keep missing the point because I never mentioned wanting damage anywhere. I don’t frigin care about damage and I (plus every single granite tanker in this game) will happily trade in damage for a more meat shield like experience, although even then I doubt that’s the way to go and boosting secondary effects (we already have) would be a much better approach.

As an agro wall he does not, as a knock back, hold, hindering andplain out wall between the team and the enemy, he DOES.

And no i really dont think of scrappers or brutes every time in any situation i see superman or the thing. I tend to relate more characters like The Black Panther or Wolverine while looking at scrappers, altough i admit, i can only think of one brute-like thing out there (The Hulk.)

Hmm.. it actually would be interesting if part of that bug that allowed all tank attacks to hit multiple targets to come back.. powers like Knockout blow always doing knockup (not hold) to the 5 taunted enemies for example...

Can you tell me where on my post on how to make tankers FEEL like comic book equivalents i even hinted at more damage? Because i KNOW that wont happen, yet you can have tankers FEEL like the equivalent by boosting the secondary effects of all current sets (and adding some to fire.)

Call it whatever you want, meatshield, brick, tank, tanker, whatever, truth is, the tanker IS based arround characters like Superman, the Thing and the Hulk, and these characters behave in the most part (but not always) as I specified.

Adding super strenght to scrappers solves nothing because this is not about damage or being super strong.

Yes, it is not a comic book term, but it IS a label that was set based on actuall comic book characters.

Heck even the offensive sets that were created originaly ONLY for tankers are charged with control abilities as the one i listed above (only exception being fire.)

You know what comic book tanks actually do? they knockout the enemy, they hold him, grab him, stop him toss him, knock him back, etc etc, so the enemy cant get to their squishier allies. They disable minnions and annoy the big bad ones enough to make sure he does not want to turn his back.

In other words: They are melee controllers that cant hold bosses and are very hard to control and kill themselves

Is the only AT with access to it?
No (see Brutes)

The taunt as far as i have tested is arround the target. What you saw may be explained by a very large area that went all the way behind you but centered arround the enemy.

Actually, the potential is higher for AoE attacks, potentially they can hit up to 10 enemies. The worse case scenario however is that it will hit only 1 while the single target one will hit 5.

However, given how the miss strife stopping code works, if you have 10 enemies around and the power properly slotted so you have exactly 90% to hit chance or more, you WILL hit at lest 5 of the enemies, period. With 16 enemy spawns you WILL hit at least 8 of them as long as the to hit chance is constant 90 or higher. In cases where this is not true, you may also miss easily the single target for zero effect.

No, I think this came with I3 or I2, that I’m not certain about. There is a big chance, if you do remember the timeframe correctly, that you saw a higher level attack a lowbie with an attack that was able to critical.

It was a very big complains that blasters did so much more damage and no one truly wanting a scrapper in their team preferring blasters that they gave in and introduced critical for all powers, even pool attacks. I think there is a site around that keeps track of all the patches; if some one is as kind as to provide a link we can check the exact time frame.

And again on provoke, not only was it auto hit and AoE, it was also a much much faster animation time. I remember that was the first thing I noticed anyways, not sure if it was a big issue for other players but i used it even against single targets back in the day (back then I had both things, noob you know)