Starsman

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As far as I can tell, Claws and KAtana are the only weapon sets that haven't got thr redraw removed yet. Just wondering if we can get an estimate as to when these last two sets might get that change?

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I would have thought this obvious, but no...you can't have an estimate.

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Why not throw the guy a bone and just tell him sometime between now and December 31, 2999? Woops... sorry, I should stop snooping in those servers of yours...

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I agree with you there, why not make repel have suppression?

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It's a toggle. It'd suppress itself after the first tick! It truly would be useless then!

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What if the suppression kicks in after a 10 second delay? Only issue I see (that can be balanced accordingly) is that if the toggle is active for 10 seconds, the suppression will end up being 10s + Last Suppression Duration, in theory, up to 25 seconds. It actually sounds appealing that the suppression be longer the longer the toggle was used on you.

Only issue I see is a potential griefing where some one may get an enemy alt (hero gets his dominator) to Tk him and perma kick in supression after 10 seconds go through. I guess other options to prevent his can be implemented.

I know i'm not the only one that thinks this but I dont see the biggest issue i think doms have in this list and its the simple nature of Domination and its up/down good/suck nature.

There is no reason to ever opt to be out of domination other than "may need it later", thing that is obsolete once you achieve possible perma domination. Domination is the state you want to be at all times if possible.

Out of domination should have benefits that are lost while inside of domination, potentially increased survivability, or "tank mode". May sound odd, but everything i see is that Dominators were based on the general idea of S&M, where Domination is the S. Make out of dom the official M, a tough "hit me, i been bad" mode, potentially gaining more survival the more they get hurt. This would not only make the "out of domination" mode tentative to retain in situations, but also add use to dominator in many of the described issues above.

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For the most part Katana = Ninja Blade, Devices is very similar to Traps, Energy Aura was introduced as a villianish counterpart to Ice Armor. Also they needed something to pair up with Energy Melee. Ninjutsu is almost like a Scrapper defense set with some devices powers thrown in.

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Devices and Traps look a tiny bit alike but are not the same set AT ALL.

Energy Aura and Ice Armor have nothing in common other than both sets being defense based and being able to drain endurance.

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Lighthouse, Ex, Castle, well..anyone really with a red name.

What if testing proves a set port didnt work en masse like ice brutes in CoV beta. They obviously made it through your internal testing and QA but in practice it was found they didnt work.

If something is found NOT to work, what is the plan?

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We still have a bit more time in Alpha with Issue 12. Then we have weeks of closed beta followed by more weeks of open beta. There is always time to remove or alter things, as per the plan.

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And I want to add: the removal of Ice from brutes was a knee jerk reaction to a bunch of whinny users that actually were complaining about Ice Armor and Ice Melee sucking with a innovative yet very flawed twist.

Players that actually tested ice armor and ice melee proved that the sets were perfectly capable of generating fury.

Somtimes I think the only reason they removed Ice/ice from brutes was to be able to say "see, we listen and actually make big changes based on feedback!!! Now suck on this uber Energy Aura set, because you all know if it says Energy in the name its uber!"

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Maybe, thematically, there is still something to be improved. The to-hit buff is related to the attacker only. The mutiplicative anti-accuracy implies that the target somehow can reduce the to-hit buff of the attacker through defense.

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Thats not how I see it defense represents awareness of an attack while to hit buffs are a way of making your attack harder to be known off, effectively negating defense. Anti-accuracy (or elusivety) would represent your skill at actually avoiding any attack by subconscious reflex, even if an attack was properly cloaked you would still be able to avoid it, although the chances of it hitting still increase, you are still proportionally likely to avoid it.


Now one thing going back to the OP, the formula Arcana proposes is:


(1+ ACC) * (1- AAC) * 50%

There is one inherent flaw on this, and its that its as prone to overstacking as everything but HP buffs. If we are going out and making an all new mechanic, why not go ahead and make sure its not as prone to overstacking? I bet there are many more ways of making different types of curves, but why not instead doing something like:

(1+ ACC) * (1- (1/(1+AAC))) * 50%

The numerics for this would be different, and actually more like HP buffs in their nature, where each extra percentage of HP you add equates to less than the previous percentage.

In this formula, 100% AAC would equate something like 50% resistance, and exactly the same as 100% extra HP. It would take 900% AAC to achieve the equivalent of 90% resistance, and, if it was possible to achieve, this would be equal to 900% hp buff.

Actually, this is a good point. If we accept Aracana's view that Res and HP buffs are correlated, then we would want the correlative brother to defense to stack just as HP buffs do, no?

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I'm curious to know if you perceive the same thing to be true when blasters were given a health increase circa I5? Do you perceive them as being under a persistent regeneration buff since then, or is the perception tied primarily to the effects of powers.

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I tend to treat base HP as just another modifier and only find it something I have to take account off while I analyze the effect of external heals. However I can easily dodge this one by saying: i started analyzing all this with Issue 6, so for me, blasters have always been the way they are now But seriously, if it happened tomorrow again my previous statement would still be in place.

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For that matter, do you see the act of levelling to convey a health increase and a regeneration increase as well, or is there something about "normal" max health that is perceptually different from "buffed" max health, even if the buff never changes.

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Leveling for me is YET another modifier, however there is something that makes both things (hp gained from leveling and hp gained from buffing) very different: your self heals always work off that base HP, not of that buffed hp.


Now I ponder though, you say there are 2 flavors of buffs in your grouping:

heal/regen
res/+hp

but def sits alone. Why don't you count -tohit as a pair to it? the only difference I see in that grouping is that both stack, but they do are two different mechanics, one involves making you elusive, the other to make the attacker elusive. Off course, then we have -damage, that would couple with resistance. What about -recharge, that in a sense is its own mechanic without pairs.

Or is it that you are only accounting for self buffs for simplicity? Usually ATs with self buffs may have access to -tohit, so simplicity or it's stack ability are the only reasons I see right now to exclude it.

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Actually, that's not what +health does. +health increases MaxHealth, which automatically scales remaining health to be the same percentage. It doesn't have any health per second boost, because regeneration is actually computed relative to MaxHealth in the first place.

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I'm not sure how the engine manages + hp, all i know is that my background playing other MMOs makes me percieve it as many players do: it increases HP and heals a bit, although this bit is just enough to keep you in the same percentage of health. The reason I feel that way is because almost all other games, when you add HP buffs, your HP does not goes up. We know [?] that the engine actually treats hp as a point scale, not as a percentage scale, so somewhere in the entire pipeline of processing +HP something is increasing two values, the max hp and the current hp as two distinct actions.

Regen does is setup to give a % of hp back, but if you are already looking at it as most players do, they just see "I'm getting these amounts of hp per second" I actually think thats how they coded the regen stat tracking too.

It's a bit inconsequential, the result is the same, its just an argument of semantics and I myself tend to use the resist side for all balancing purposes, as noted before, due to simplicity, but at the same time, I feel it's closer to Health as a mechanic than to resist. It's really a perception thing I cant change myself even knowing how alike to recharge it is, and it's a perception I think the devs also share or shared until recently, since they were afraid of using +HP because they felt it "increased regeneration rate".


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Also, while powers like Dull Pain are temporary in duration, +health bonuses from inventions, accolades, and passive powers like HPT are all effectively permanent in nature: there is no "stretching and healing" aspect of them in any practical sense.

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You escaped half my reply with that last statement, but we still have the "increased regeneration" (that i know remains a steady percentage but the game shows me an increased HP per second value instead.

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+Health is a form of damage resistance simply because for a given value of resistance and +health (I always make the disclaimer, and then someone always fails to read it and bring up issues that ignore it) +Res and +Health are indistinguishable unless you read the combat chat numbers. The game itself is mathematically invariant to them.

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I know this, and you know i know this, but that is the point, the game, once you read the numbers it gives you, starts to make you feel its a distinct thing HP related thing. I admit, I'm afraid my post here may be read by people that would get confused (if anyone other than arcana reads this: she is right, HP IS A FORM RESISTANCE.)

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Or to put it another way, I could redesign the game in such a way as to eliminate the +health mechanic completely, and replace it with a non-stacking resistance one that worked exactly like resistance does now. I'd have to get creative with stacking mechanics, but such a game would be indistinguishable in terms of performance: absolutely no combat situation would change in any way.

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You may come into a bit of trouble attempting to implement irresistible damage in such a system while keeping the equivalent powers resisting the irresistible, but I see your point.

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The primary differences between them are situational, and not mechanical (for example, +health can't be typed). In terms of damage mitigation, both deliver the same end goal.

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In my view, the only end goal is keeping you alive, witch defense also does.

The true difference of these is in feel. +HP can keep you alive as much as resistance. At the end of the day I do see numbers float over my head and this is how I percieve them:

Resist: Makes the numbers smaller
Defense: makes the numbers not show at all sometimes
+HP: Keeps the numbers the same but make me feel I'm ignoring the damage because somehow I still keep going.

Its true that if you eliminate the numbers (or replace them by percentages) then they are the same thing, but right now, as the game stands, resist and +HP do result in distinct game play feels. I personally feel its closer to Heal due to it being HP based than resist based because, on top of all I said before, it never truly reduces that big number over my head every time get hit.

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That's a separate issue (and more complicated in CoH than it necessarily needs to be): you mentioned preferential limits closer to 20% avoidance, which is very far away from this problem.


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True, but two things: I said "posibly tossing a number to the air" and also, its very likely i would have a similar "resistance" cap (this caps may be higher for tanklike players, if i was to pursue such an AT based structure)

As for the "two kinds of..." thing, although I myself compare HP buffs to resistance constantly, I dont really categorize them in the same pool. Actually, as far as "feeling" and concept goes, it feels more green (heal based) to me. I guess it comes from HP buffs consisging really of:

A HP per second boost
Modification of your HP bar
Additional HPs "healing you" (as you know you do get an heal that is as large as the hp buff in percentage of your remaining health)

Sure, this all just ends up stretching your hp, and as noted, I treat it by as resistance but only because of it's simplicity, analyzing it any other way is a nightmare.

That out of the way, nothing stops a defense sets from getting other tools other than intended design. For me, +HP would be perfectly thematic for a batman type character, who may get hit way harder than Wonder Woman each time he gets hit, but is naturally tougher than, say, Aquaman, just because he has been roughened up tough over the years. Ninjitsu has a self heal for instance. I think it would be perfectly balanced for SR to get a HP buff added in Practiced Brawler.

I'm not saying that adding the anti-accuracy (or elusivety or whatever it gets called) would be bad, it would be good, but I just don't like how Defense feels in PvP when it actually works. This is specially complicated by the excess of travel power jousting in PvP, witch is the main reason I just don't bother with PvP at all. I like my PvP Street Fighter Alpha 3 style (close, fast paced and long fights if both players are skilled)

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I remind you that there is no explicit "balance" reason for disallowing defense (as specifically defined as attack avoidance) to have the same net damage mitigation strength as any other damage mitigation mechanism, provided that secondary effect avoidance is properly counterbalanced situationally. The only reason for specifically singling out defense is psychological.

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My point on "not allowing anyone to avoid everything" comes from the perspective that, if both are supposed to be balanced, how comes everyone can reach 45 def (that equates 90% resistance) but non tanker/brutes can only achieve 75% resistance? Should they not also be capped at 37.5 final defense (after all tohit buffs and debuffs are calculated)? I'm thinking back to a point you mentioned in another thread about "allowing players to build a character around the concept of never getting hit." Currently, this game gives you that ability, I don't think you should ever have that ability.


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Also, invincibility is not conceptualized as "defense as in evasion" but rather "defense as in deflection." Attacks bounce off, having zero effect. It was supposed to be, in effect, a form of "Defensive Rage."

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That is what i meant by saying "Specially, I think that something like invincibility (that arguably is used to emulate a different "feel")"

The "degradation" thing for toggles I have thought off but may be problematic. powers like invincibility just could not use it at all. I actually had been thinking that it would be much more useful for Rage, giving rage multiple buffs with variating durations that will give the Rage buff a degradation effect instead of a full fledge crash, but that is topic for another thread.

Here is the thing: if I wanted to make room for PvP, or allow the tool to be used by the AI controlled Mobs, I would not allow for real evasion. If I was decided that i would never make an mob that used the tool, or not allow PvP ever ever, then I would allow true evasion (and the random damage evasion that I noted would also exists)

Now, here is a thing I dont like to think: just as its balance breaking to allow players to make Superman (that never feels pain) it would also be broken to make the Batman that never gets hit because of his uber reflexes. Specially, I think that something like invincibility (that arguably is used to emulate a different "feel") should do the oposite: the most foes some one has on him, the most likely they all will hit reliably because they are encumbering your ability to dodge.

All in all, if I allowed for true evasion in my game, I likely would give it a very low cap just tossing numbers to the air, I perhaps would never allow anyone to "always" avoid more than 20% of all attacks.


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What I find interesting about this approach is that its equivalent (or looking like its converging rapidly) to a game system in which damage is random (i.e. "Xd6-style" damage, albeit more complex), and the only things that exist are damage resistance (possibly of a more complex nature), and effects resistance.

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I'm not sure, I would not really eliminate everything else, just the current flavor of evasion. Slowing down the enemy, damage debuffs, HP buffs, there is no reason to eliminate these tools. I also find interesting the idea of treshholds that you mentioned in another thread is part of the Pen and Paper Champions, if it is what i think it is, i have not researched it (I'm guessing all attacks have certain strength attribute driving them behind their actual damage number, if this strength does not matches your protection threshold, you get no damage, I would do this typed)

As for "unbreakable" in CoH, the engine and powers provide for the ability to add powers that break status effects. If Castle wanted, Practiced Brawler could be activated while under status, same with any toggle. The thing he cant do is make status not detogle powers. But as it is, if I had loose reigns on CoH, I would make all self buff toggles passives. Only clicks would remain being clicks. That alone would entirely eliminate the "mess deactivates all your defenses" deal, admittedly it would also remove the "you have to choose how to manage your endurance, defensively or offensively" aspect of the game. I would do something to keep that, to a point, I do like that, even if I would not have it in my own game.

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Basically, under this system, all of evasion's qualitative advantages (especially higher econdary effect avoidance) are eliminated, but its remaining qualitative disadvantages remain in force. How would you propose to deal with that, if at all?

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I have thought about that, one thing that has crossed my mind is that the defense would also apply to "secondary effects" either in partial or binary form. Example, your hitroll made you avoid 40% of a punch that disorients you, you also resist 40% of the duration of this disorient, if i was to go for non-binary form.

A binary version could split the chances into certain 50/50 threshold, where if your roll means you lower your damage by 50% you entirely avoid the secondary effect. This, off course, is an assumption that attacks would actually have such a thing as secondary effects on such a system.

Also, I would not use toggle systems that can get de-toggled by status effects. I really dislike the total shutdown caused by the infliction of status effects or endurance drain.

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Interesting, but it would not e my personal preference.

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There is nothing that will make everyone happy, I accept that

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I like the mechanic of missing/being missed, with all the attendant frustration. I would like it if it were cosmetically altered to eliminate missing in favor of the target dodging.

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Avoiding damage works on a EvP game (the enviroment attacking you) but it sucks in PvE and PvP. One of the most frustrating experiences in my gaming experience has been playing against high evasion foes in FFXI, it litterally was miss miss miss miss miss miss *some one in the team hits* miss miss miss miss

Repeat, a few hits later foe is dead. Even if fighting hard defense (resistance in the game) foes may in occasions be harder, i would rather do that any day because it was simply fun.

However note that what I propose may rarely roll zero damage, that can be displayed as "avoided" with a corresponding animation.


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Nor would I have a problem with a system based around starting from a 95% chance to hit. But I'd prefer the option to build a character around being completely missed by attacks greater than 50% of the time.

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Again, if the game is exclusively PvE, and no mob is designed to be missed by the attacker too much, it can work, but that automatically destroys the posibilities of PvP that is fun for everyone.


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And that goes both ways: I wouldn't mind it if opponents did so, so long as Defense was still balanced with Resistance and the like.

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If you would find fighting foes with 75% evasion as fun as fighting foes with 75% resistance, then you are in a rare minority. Most players would hate it.

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How would you implement that in a game that also had randomized damage

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I would not have randomized damage in my game, not directly anyways. However, if forced, I would keep things in two layers. First randomize damage (usually these games have a max and minimun damage they inflict, at least WoW does) to see how much damage will be inflicted, then, i use the defense to see how much this will be lowered.

Going back to the "not directly" bit, I would make players have imperfect accuracy in my game, this accuracy imperfection, perhaps similar to CoH base 75%, would randomize your damage, but you can become more precise with more accuracy, giving a true importance to get more accuracy over getting more damage. Defense would be a separate layer, not stacking on top of this accuracy.

I would complicate things a lot too, by adding two types of defense: armor base and evasion base. Armor based defense can be pierced by certain type of piercing modifiers, while evasion based would be pierced by something similar to to hit buffs. Either of these buffs/modifiers would not be given left and right, though.

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Why on earth would they be unlocked without a 50?
Only if you could unlock Khelds without one!

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I remember reading something that Emmert said about lvl 50 epic unlocks was a mistake, and I assume that most of the devs feel the same way.

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We had to do it this way for the first Villain EAT... parity in unlocking the EATs across both games and all that.

Future EATs (if we dare go in that direction) will have different methods of unlocking (obviously, since the "get to 50" is already done).

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Ever thought of doing an alternate way of earning both? And by alternate off course I mean something that would be hard enough to consider getting to 50 a viable alternative.

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Eight configurable new power trays let players customize their User Interface by placing them anywhere on the screen.

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Now the question is can we place them Verticle instead of horizontal.

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You bet. You can even do boxes and L-shapes (when you push them to the edge of the screen).

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I play with a PlayStation gamepad hooked up to my pc. Can I rearrange them so i can have them mapped similar to how my gamepad look, having two sets of 4 in a cross pattern and float the other two to represent the shoulder buttons?

Since when are devs allowed to play favorites?!?!

Now you go out and make a punching powerset that makes me glow like a yellow star 24/7 so I can make Starsman shine like a star!

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Because if I'm correct in what I'm understanding, you're quasi-confident you could use similar "invisible weapon" methodology that you used for WC to allow me to shoot a green & white fireball toward a Bone Daddy or something, but once the animation for fireball started on the Bone Daddy, it would be red and yellow (default colors). And, subsequently, any DoT to the Bone Daddy (when his abdomen is on fire) would remain red and yellow, because those are the default values you've had in place. This is all because the animations for fireball exploding and the DoT (gut on fire) never reference the variables from the player that contain the customized colors (green and white, in my case)?


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If I read this right it can go further, IF the devs attached the dot fire color to the same node as the projectile, not only will it not be inherited in the target once you affect him with a DoT, but every time YOU are in the receiving end you will inherit your own tinting. So anyone that shoot fire at you and caused DoT will make you green fire too.

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What about creating another parameter in the power system (set to TRUE or FALSE) that indicates the player character that is executing the power on the enemy has assigned custom color values for that power...and then having the animation check that boolean value -- if its true, then check the character's costume attributes to see what those colors are, if not than don't check.


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That is far from what can be done. The thing is, as far as i know, that the animated entity running on the target as consequence of your action has no knowledge of your existence at all. It does not know the fire was spit by you, it just know it must animate fire on the target. It would be able to inherit colors from the target but not from the entity that set off the fire.

I figure that some work (maybe a lot) from the code monkeys would be able to allow the animation aware of the originator, the power system does keep partial track of this to avoid stacking certain effects from the same source, so it shouldn't be impossible to extend to the animation, I just guess in the safe side that it will be a lot of code.

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How in the world are you reading "we found that specific pathway to be a dead end" to mean that Weapon Customization has brought them closer?

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Because once you find a dead end, you build a road that starts there, while otherwise you had to build a full road from the start.

Before, the devs thought a full system had to be developed to inherit all the things BaB noted are now possible, that step is out of the way now. They still have other things to tackle from that point, but this is one less thing to do.

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Weapon customization did open up some avenues of exploration and got us thinking more outside the box, but ultimately we found that specific pathway to be a dead end.

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If what i read here is correct, then every time its said that "we are nowhere closer to power cusomization than we were 3 years ago" is not true. In theory, you are closer, still not able to go far, but you can "just" (by just i mean not as bad as a full blown system) go ahead and make those code monkeys do some tools the continuing FX in the target know who actually generating that FX and inherit properties from there.

I know its no triviality, but my point is, you can expand on top of what you say you have discovered instead of fully creating a new system.

An additional question, though: Animations

We all know how Fly poses are "customizable" via emotes. You (i think) noted that you set those emotes to always take precedence over the standard fly animation. Does this means that, in theory, you can do the same for any power? Implementation aside (in how players would pick these animations to run) can you create an uppercut emote animation that i can use instead of a punch for Jab?

If it was available in slash command form, I can see how some one would be able to make a macro go /activatepower Jab&&Em Supapunch and trigger that instead of the direct jab button. I guess a right-click property can be added to powers to allow selection of allowable emotes for the commandshy, but as you said, that is implementation. It sounds possible, way more possible than FX customization.

If i was to make a game from scratch there would be no missing at all. "Defense" or superreflexibility or whatever would be based not around avoiding being hit but avoiding taking full damage randomly, in other words: in my game defense/avoidance would be a random resistance mechanic that could be countered by higher accuracy.

This random resistance would, in theory, be able to take things to zero damage in occasions, yielding the feeling of "now THAT missed me!!"

The possibilities of taking full damage or no damage at all would be there, both would be more or less common depending on your avoidance, but nor would there be a "never get hit" build in my game.

It would be SO nice if Defense worked similarly to this in PvP

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Okay, so out of 8 pets, why are there only 2 different buffs?

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Originally, there were 2 pets: The Faeries. Then someone (may even have been me, I don't remember) brought up the fact that Faeries won't match everyones concepts and so, the Wisps were born. Then, someone suggested the Drones for Tech types and at the last minute the Oscillators were tossed in. All told, a more classic example of Feature Creep you will never find!

So, since there were only two pets originally, there were only 2 powers made. I didn't have time to make 6 more powers to match the new entities.

As for why they are so fragile, let's just say if they were at all "tough" I could exploit them horrendously. So, they are fragile. They CAN be kept alive if you are a ranged AT, but melee types will have a hard time of it.

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All my fault...sorry about that.

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Bab, are you going to let castle attempt steal your guilt?!

On a serious note: its a shame I cant see the future. I picked the 5th column pet with my macer, had I known the next pet (or that there was going to be another pet) was going to accommodate clockwork design but no 5th column designs, I would had picked the clockwork non combat pet instead.

I guess there is no chance to get a mekman added to the list, will there? Also, what about some natural/mutant creations? Like DE monsters? You guys keep doing tech/magic and ignore the entire mutant aspects.

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As for why they are so fragile, let's just say if they were at all "tough" I could exploit them horrendously. So, they are fragile. They CAN be kept alive if you are a ranged AT, but melee types will have a hard time of it.


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What about make them impossible to heal or buff, with no regeneration, but at least able to take 2 hits at any level?

Well it took me a while to actually take time to read this, i sort of gazed many times, nodded, thought it was a great idea, and kept off walking but now i actually have something to say about this, not about the mechanic itself but about how I would use the tool if it was in my power.

First:
I would implement caps just like with resistance. If a scrapper is not allowed to have 90% resistance i think he also should not have 90% elusiveity, so scrappers would be capped at 75% elusiveity/antiaccuracy (defense itself can always take you beyond that.)

Same for all other ATs, basically only tankers and brutes would be able to get 90% anti accuracy.


Second: SR/Ninjitsu

I would make Ninjitsu and Super Reflexes both have their toggles provide "Elusivity" and passives provide Defense. This would allow for passives to be boosted to a point of true significance so independently they are strong, while they would not be that powerful once stacked on top of the toggles because they would not stack directly.

Defensive Tier 9s:
These would grant pure defense, no Elusivity/Anti-Accuracy.

Third: Force Fields
Similarly, I think i would make Dispersion Bubble Elusivity and not defense.

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I am one of those people that don't care about xp but do care about content.

Do we have any idea when/if missions that aren't story arcs will make it to flashback? A lots of the cool and unusual missions are offered to you after you complete a story arc.

I am glad about the xp smoothing, not glad about the xp boost.

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Anything can be made Flashback, but the "completed" star checks for A) Souvenir clue or B) the Badge. If we did missions that were not Story Arcs and not Badged, then they would never show complete.

That said, I have no problem doing this if you guys don't. Just let me know what missions you want on Ouroboros and I will do my best to get them there.

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Anything that is not a street hunt.

Also, the complete thing, it may be tedious but what about just adding invisible badges to all of them?

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The one thing I question tho, he said they datamined how long characters were at certain levels. Could this info have been skewed by alt-itis? I know when I hit 22-27 range, I usually start another alt and run them for a while. Or even partake in a FOTM build.

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We have a "life at level" stat in seconds. This is how long a character spent at a particular level, logged in. While not a perfect indicator of levelling speed, it's an excellent starting point.

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Can you exclude time spent in the same zone/mission for over 2 hours? I can see how people farming badges (specially in PvP zones) can very easily skew those numbers.