Starsman

Hmmmm maybe. At some point I dowloaded this to excel and keept working it locally... got to revise it again. But the base HP columns are right (I think.) Those can still be used as reference.

Yikes, yea there are a few bugs... working on fixing them now.

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Starsman: It's not that bad. Instead of having one column in a spreadsheet you have two. Tedious or annoying? Sure.

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2? What about the use of epics? Mix of damage due to primary/secondary? Procs? Nah, if you want to go for sures, you got to do 8. 9 when you count for the Total column. Depending on build you may be able to get away with 2 or 3, but me? I'd have to go all the way.

However, I meant the poster himself being told to track these would cause him a headache, specially if he already is asking for help calculating the chains and resistances.

Darminiam, I made a calculator you can look at:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...fgTw&hl=en

If you want to edit the parameters, log in, then go to File and create a copy, that way you get an editable copy you can toy with. If the duration fields go red, that means you can't kill the target. I made this a long time ago for personal use, never posted it before so you may find bugs while toying with parameters.

It even allows you to enter foe resistance and, in the cases where the AV may has regen buffs, how much regen buff he has.

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Also, when calculating dps for mixed sets it'd be a good idea for you to keep track of the damage components separately. That way, when you run up against an AV with uneven resistance between the types it's easy to just apply the resistance to each type and add them together.

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It also does a better job than getting drunk at burning your overrated brain neurons.

I think its based on end cost, and i think its something like rounddown(end) but not sure.

KoB is 17ft, 18.5 end
Jab is 3ft, 3.53 end.
Punch is 5ft, 5.2 end.

So I guess it may be about 15ft or 14ft, since its 15.1 end.

I am not sure why Midnight Grasp is 17, castle maybe just copy pasted the radius from another Tier9 instead of copypasting the formula.

Whirling Mace, Shatter and Crowd Control are AoE attacks and they don't count.

StratoNexus asks due to the fact that all heavy hitting attacks have a larger radius precisely to make it easier to aggro foes that are further away.

Potentially. Thats a question for castle. Think there is an endurance cost formula for gauntlet radius.

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Seriously! That's what I saw this weekend in the auction house when I went looking for an Apocalypse IO and a few other purples to complete a set I'd begun slotting several months ago.

How is *anything* going for 200 million plus inf. on the auction house? Is the system that unbalanced now? There's just no way the casual player is ever going to afford a purple recipe now - or is that the idea?

*edit*

Deleted the $ sign - sorry about that!

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Parapracing BackAlleyBrawler:
Did you really just use 'casual gamers' and 'purple IO' in the same post?

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I figured as much. It pretty much renders your tool ineffective at determining DB's ranking against other sets.

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It does! I think I had a disclaimer on the page at some point, not sure if it's still there or I missed it in a revision. Will check the page again to make sure it is there.

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I don't blame you, combos are problematic to compute dynamically. Even if you had an actual calculator that simulated attack usage, it'd have to look ahead long enough to make sure powers will be recharged in the future.

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Also there is the fact that combos have increased chance of failure. Where attacks have just 5% chance to fail, combos need 3 consecutive tests against that floor not to fail. That is a bigger issue than looking ahead.

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According to Starsman's latest charts, Energy Melee is inferior to Fire as well as Stone in single target attacks, in both damage output and endurance efficiency.

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*Clicks link.*

*Looks at charts..*

*scratrches head...*


Fiery Melee 1.8
Energy Melee 1.8...

*scratches head*

EM Inferior to Fire in ST?



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Still, if those numbers are even partly true, it suggests that Energy Melee has lost its reason to exist.

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STUNS STUNS STUNS!!!

While at it, give Stun (The Power) the clover treatment!

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The lackluster performance of the rest of Energy Melee also puts it well behind Fire Melee in endurance efficiency, despite the fact that Energy is supposed to take less endurance because it takes your health instead.

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In theory, fire always been intended to be more end efficient because it's secondary effect is end-free damage.

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If Starsman's numbers are true, it now has no advantage at all to overcome its obvious disadvantages. In other words, it's now broken, no doubt about it.

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You read them wrong but I do agree, sort off. EM needs a counterbalance for the dual nerf (energy punch was the biggest offender, not energy transfer.) I don't think the set is broken, it still has a niche (stuns) but I don't think a set that must self-inflict damage to achieve it's max level of damage should be forced to just perform at its current level.

Giving true damage to Stun (like Clobber) would make the set much better.

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IIRC, there was someone posting recently about being able to artificially extend the range of things like Shadow Maul through good timing and strategic repositioning. Can't remember where the link is though.

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It got apparently fixed shortly after the post showed up. Few days after the post the fix showed up in the test server. Came live with I15 so it is no longer possible.

My point was that they did everything wrong. Horribly wrong. At least if you consider right being what you engage on doing. Almost every goal they set to themselves was missed.

CoH was aiming to be a typical MMO with tanker/healor/damage/mez pattern.

By random cosmic comedy we ended up with something entirely different, a solo friendly game. This being because the devs overshoot instead of undershoot on every goal. Things were nerfed eventually, but the goal changed based on the new direction the game went for, out of pure accident.

So, things did go "darn well", but they (thanks the lord) went horribly wrong if you remember what they were originally aiming for.

That was why I used that confusion emoticon, because most goals were missed but still things ended up fun. Things didn't go well, but they went darn well to the point of destroying an obsolete design without having to ask for permission.

Unfortunately, cant calculate combos in the current implementation. One of the reasons why this may be may last update and I'll scrap the project in favor of an all new tool.

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Stone Melee shows up at the top of Starsman's charts at 250% recharge, so it might be a strong candidate as well. He also has War Mace up there with the same score as Energy Melee and Fiery Melee.

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Want to make a small note here: I'm in the progress of replacing my charts with a newer version. The tanker ones are done. One thing i always disliked was people quoting how "X set is 3rd best" when the difference between the first and the third was of just about .05 points. So, in this version I went ahead and rounded things to the first decimal place. Tie ups may have a margin of error and be anywhere between .049 higher or lower than you see them there, but since my estimate is loose as it is, I don't think the level of precision is even useful to begin with.

Also note that there is now an endurance efficiency chart there to help determine what sets can sustain that longer. Fiery Melee, thanks for all the dot and bonuses, actually gets to match Scrapper Katana endurance per damage AFTER criticals vs non-minions. That's a hell of a lot of endurance efficiency on the set.

Ice Melee is not only the worst ST damage but also the most end inefficient set almost tied up with Dual Blades that is inefficient due to Blinding Feint spamming.

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YMMV, but I'd always run the damage aura in an AV fight unless I had to keep minions around for AoE buffs like Soul Drain and Dark Regen (especially for Ice as end is not an issue on that powerset). It's about as DPE efficient as ST attacks even against one target, and being on all the time it's free DPS on top of what you already have. An extra 10-15 DPS is big when you're only 30 or 40 DPS above the AV regen.

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This applies to all but stone. Fire actually yields 4.72 end per ds against a single target as it has higher base damage than other auras.

Dark and Ice both are costing you 5.2 end per DS against a single target.

Given you don't have to worry about recharge on these, they can easily be frankenslotted to max damage, max endurance and extreme end redux.

For this I like:

Sirocco's: ACC/DMG, DMG/END, ACC/DMG/END
Multi Strike's: DMG/END, ACC/END, ACC/DMG/END

These 6 (if you have the room) end in 98.7% damage and end discount enhancement with 93.5% accuracy.

Yes, cones are extremely devaluated in many players experience.

Many will argue they can hit 10 foes reliably with stone melee's 15ft radius, never hitting more than one foe with Cleave and rarely hitting 2 or 3 with Pendulum. And off course, never even getting close to hit 10 with Whirling.

Even so, I also think that skew is too high so I just tweaked it down a bit. SM still beats axe now, but only by 3% at 50% recharge and 11% at 250% recharge.

Keeping in mind a no-herding situation where you just rush to the next spawn and fight, this may be more accurate with many players.

Great! Found the bug! A bad reference was keeping all sets but Battle Axe from applying the tanker melee modifier! That's why axe looked bad in both damage and endurance.

I'm much more happier with the current look of things, and it seems to represent something much closer to what I experience in game.

Well, I think that's it, I'll replace my site's charts with this new ones tomorrow, and may get ready to apply these new ones to scrappers and brutes.

Its end efficiency is due to the calc insisting on using Pendulum in ST chains because at the level of recharge the only other available power to fill is Beheader, and it's DPAS sucks. I can weight endurance even more but it will result in lower Damage score. Will try that and see how it ends.

I made some changes to my damage ranking calculator and would like some second eyes to take a peak. I expected the changes to either throw set rankings all over the place or not do anything, thing is, it sort of kept everything on the same ballpark but Battle Axe, this makes me think the set either was very sensitive to perpetuation or I have data entry errors I cant seem to find. Once I finalize this, these may be my last changes to the charts. I plan to finalize this and get strted on a much more ambitious and in depth project that may end in me shooting myself. Depending on the results of that project is that I may bother or not with any future updates for the charts.

Here is the link: http://foundersfallshigh.com/__/new_tank.html

To list the changes on this version (may be more this is off the top of my head

<ul type="square">[*]Removed 60s window analyzis in favor of true perpetuation (before it averaged attacks that fit 60s windows, this made things like low recharge footstomp and knockout blow less useful than they should be)[*]Adjusted my AoE weighting to be more loose. This means that larger radius show higher damage even if even 8ft radius PBAoEs can realistically hit 10 foes. This may make many players that complained about this issue happy (yes, that took Super Strenght to be second only to Fire in AoE.)[*]A new damage buff attribute column allows me to more dynamically calculate tiem consumed using such attacks and increased recharge averages. This means that at 250% rechage, Rage self stacks AND also gets more frequent crashes.[*]Added endurance analysis, the idea here is to put a bit of weight on prefering to use more end optimal attacks. Also display a final chart showing how endurance effective the set is at delivering the damage it does. [*]Removed Build Up Burst charts. They were not really consistent with the goal of my calculator, that is simply, in average, how do sets perform over a full play season in the hands of an average player that picks the right powers but does not maximizes with loads of IOs. I think this represent the majority of the non-forum going community, and a big chunk of the forum goers before they get to 50.[/list] A note on Dark Melee: the set has next to no AoE other than very high recharge powers. This means that if you want to look at the potential impact of the famous “surround myself with critters to fight single targets” you can look at the set’s AoE rating and compare that rating to the Single Target rating of other sets.

OK, I think that’s about it. There may be a few other things here and there, some that are not exactly open to tweak (I can internally filter powers by level now) but as noted at the start, my main priority is to have the entered data audited, mainly for battle axe.

If anyone actually manages to confirm attack chains or other analysis that confirm that Battle Axe should indeed be where it is now on the charts, I also would love to hear them, along with the oposite if anyone has oposite evidence.

Are you intentionally attempting to stay at 3 attacks? Due to the heavy hitting/high recharge nature of the set, it usually is needed to have more attacks than the average set. (if you noted it and I missed I apologize, have not been following the thread 100%)

I'd attempt to make a chain that includes both, Bone Smasher AND energy Punch.

I think she was using the Power Analyzer Mk III temp power. You can buy it in the Auction House if its up for sale.

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Fire Breath, for instance, is sure DoT.

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According to the character creator, the ticks are 80%, so I'd assume they can cancel further ticks?

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Hmm... let me log in (city of data says 3 * 36.6 Fire damage over 2.10 seconds (after 1 second delay))

Edit: note I said Fire Breath (blaster) no Breath of Fire (tanker)

As far as I understand, the chance to cancel is only if there is a chance to not happen. So, 80% chance of DoT will likely mean it will have a chance to cancel on each tick.

If the DoT will always happen, then it never cancels mid way so you can account it for full damage.

There CAN be exceptions, but I think every power I seen that has a non 100% chance to DoT can cancel on miss. Yes, this also means that Fire Blast DoTs behave the same way as long as they have a chance. Fire Breath, for instance, is sure DoT.

Edit: also don't forget the .8 in your formula is the chance to hit. Not sure your formula but put a 1 there for 100% and you get division by zero that is, off course, error and also a hint that the formula does not applies for sure damage. But put .9999999 and you will see that out of 5 ticks you land 4.9999.

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I honestly have no idea how they got the powersets done as quickly as they did as well as they did.

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For my recent FM calcs, I used the (0.8 * total dot damage) + (regular damage) method.

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That will drastically overstate the impact of the DoTs. I would suggest to use Sarrate's formula.

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Also, is that how all Fire DoTs work? I want to make sure I'm doing this right, and I haven't fiddled much with Fire in the past.

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There are a few DoTs in the game that have a Cancel On Miss trait. Fire and Toxic DoTs fall on that category.

This off course only applies to DoTs without 100% chance to happen. Katana's Bleeding DoTs are "safe and sure."

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If each DoT has an 80% chance, and the first failure cancels the rest, wouldn't it look like this?

BaseDamage + DotDamage*0.8 + DotDamage*0.8^2 + ... + DotDamage*0.8^NumTicks

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My algebra sort of sucks, I would go the long way and prepare a lookup table for this... where is Arcanaville when you need her? I know there is a quick way to calculate this, not sure if Sarrate's is the right one but due to current brain deadness I am willing to incline that way.