Stargazer

[ QUOTE ]
You may not like the way its stated, but its not an incorrect way of stating it, because it is exactly how the power works in game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Recharge = Base_Recharge * (1 + "debuff") is an incorrect way to state how recharge debuffs work in this game.

It gives the correct result for the special case where you are fighting even foes with no resist to recharge debuffs or other recharge buffs/debuffs on them, but for any other situation you end up with an incorrect result.

That's why I said that they give the same results "in a vacuum".


It is no more correct than to say that:

Damage buffs increase your damage through this formula:
Damage = Base_Damage/(1 - "damage buff"), and the "damage buff" of an even level SO is 0.25.
This gives the same result as the "real" formula in the special case where the only damage buff is an even level SO, but for all other cases you end up with garbage.

or:

Recharge buffs have this effect on the recharge of your powers:
Recharge = Base_Recharge * (1 - "recharge buff"), and Hasten has a "recharge buff" of 41.18% (a.k.a "1 - The Number That Should Never Ever Be Uttered Aloud").
Again, this gives the correct result for Hasten for the special case when you have no other recharge buffs/debuffs on you (including Recharge SOs), but for all other cases you end up with nonsense.
This is pretty much the exact same situation as we have with the formula for "recharge debuffs".


So, while Recharge = Base_Recharge*(1 + "recharge debuff") gives the correct answer for one special case, it is not how the game appears to handle recharge debuffs.


And level scaling does not seem to fall within that special case.

As I said above:
[ QUOTE ]
When fighting higher level mobs, our powers work at a fraction of their original efficiency.
Say that we are fighting a foe of a level that means that our powers are at 50% efficiency.

Apparently Statesman essentially says that CE will have this effect on recharge times:
1+0.5*0.5 = 1.25

The game seems to tell us that CE has this effect on recharge times:
1/(1-0.5*1/3) = 1/(5/6) = 6/5 = 1.2

1.2<1.25

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand the problem of people "speaking different languagues", it's hard to come to an understanding if you are talking about different things.

However, when two parties are discussing using differing definitions, I generally prefer it if they settle on using the "right" definition instead of the "wrong" definition.


And I did not mean that you did not consider level scaling, I know that you do that. What I was trying to say is that CE is actually worse off in that respect than what Statesman's equation suggests.

When fighting higher level mobs, our powers work at a fraction of their original efficiency.
Say that we are fighting a foe of a level that means that our powers are at 50% efficiency.

Apparently Statesman essentially says that CE will have this effect on recharge times:
1+0.5*0.5 = 1.25

The game seems to tell us that CE has this effect on recharge times:
1/(1-0.5*1/3) = 1/(5/6) = 6/5 = 1.2

1.2<1.25


Maybe it's just me, but when a dev speaks about a power in this game, I prefer it when they actually speak about how powers actually work in this game.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, given that Recharge = Base_Recharge/(1 + bonus), it seems like it currently has a debuff of about 33%.
In the examples used above, the results will be the same, but that's not generally so.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 66.7% number from Statesman came with an explanation of how that number would be applied. Which would be: Base * (1+X) or in this case Base * (1 + 66.7%).

Based on my testing, the current number that fits that equation is 50%. I provide the number this way more so that he understands it than the general public, but I did also provide the number with an explanation of how it is applied.

I do agree from the standpoint of where you and I generally talk that a 66.7% debuff is 40% slower and a 50% debuff is 33.33% slower than base.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is that while they give the same results "in a vacuum", they are different when other recharge buffs/debuffs enter the picture.


CE:
1+0.5 = 1.5
1/(1-1/3) = 1/(2/3) = 3/2 = 1.5
1.5==1.5

now consider 2 applications of a debuff of CE's magnitude.
1+2*0.5 = 2
1/(1 - 2/3) = 1/(1/3) = 3
2!=3


They should also react differently when we consider scaling due to level difference...

[ QUOTE ]
In I4, Chilling Embrace had a -Recharge component that at its base level was a 66.7% debuff. What this means is that a recharge time of 10 becomes 10 * (1 + 66.7%) = 16.67s. This was a number provided by Statesman to me in private conversation, and one I verified on the live server at the time.
<snip>
However, at the same time the -Recharge debuff was dropped in effectiveness from 66.7% to 50%. I have run a few tests both inside and outside of the Arena (PvP and PvE) that I feel conclude this to be the number without a doubt.

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually, given that Recharge = Base_Recharge/(1 + bonus), it seems like it currently has a debuff of about 33%.
In the examples used above, the results will be the same, but that's not generally so.


Also, it seems that if the debuff had been 10% (Which I believe is the number Statesman first gave), the "effective damage mitigation" of CE would have been the same in I4 and I5.

But then we have to consider that damage debuffs are much more commonly resisted than recharge debuffs.

OTOH, recharge debuffs only reach their "maximum potential" if all activation times are zero...

[ QUOTE ]
Also remember that the Freakshow will work for anyone who provides sandwiches and a keg.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. What about cookies? What villain factions will work for cookies?

[ QUOTE ]
Me, Lord Recluse, Ravenshadow, Poz, Another programmer (no cool handle), Capt. Mako.

[/ QUOTE ]

/me wonders if there are two Raven* devs or if Ravenstorm will feel very neglected now.



As for no-cool-handle guy/gal, how about Cookie? There are many kinds of cookies, so there is lots of room for personal flavour to the name...

Thank you Positron and all other devs. I have had a lot of fun with CoH over this past year, and I have indeed made some new friends.
Thanks also to all the players out there that have helped make this an enjoyable experience.

Here's hoping for another year just as fun. I know you can do it.
Cheers!


Oh. And Tig's birthday is coming up on monday. Expect cake. And cookies of course.

[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't have to give you Statesman's shoe size.

[/ QUOTE ]

We demand to be told Statesman's shoe size!

Here are some pics from the big Last Man Standing Free For All that Valdermic's Impalers had. Unfortunately I don't have pics for the last few minutes due to issues with my hard drive not being large enough, but most of it is there. I have a movie of it all too, but it is far too big to share here. I'll see if I can't select a few small clips and post later on though.

Will try to add pics (and maybe movies) for the SG vs. SG fights the Impalers had vs. the Cuppa Clones and Lenore's Heroes over the coming days...



First blood.

Down you go!
I said down!
Down!!
Why won't you stay down?
Watch your head.
And stay down this time!


Valdermic surveying the battle.
Tigraine being defiant...


Everyone get the Tanker!
Everyone get the other Tanker!


Treason! Someone got Valdermic!
Alas, poor Valdermic, I knew him well.
Valdermic has been avenged!


OMG! A Hero is trapped in a soap bubble!
Have no fear, I'll get you out!
Seems like fire was the key. Fly free!


Up, up and too far away!
Preparing for the jump.
Aerial Battle.
Nice view from up here...
Second pass.
Flap your arms Tig!
A cat always lands on her feet.


Tig looking for a ground-based target.


The fall of Tigraine.


This is Tig News, reporting live from downtown Steel Canyon where a group of superheroes have been testing their skills against each other for the past half hour.
Hey, where did she go? <BOOOM!!!> Ah...

Unfortunately our main office had some disk-space related issues at this point, so there are no more photos available at the moment, but eyewitnesses report that after two more explosions Tum was declared the winner of this friendly competition between fellow SG members.
Congratulations!


edit:
/me pretends I never wrote "Vyvyanne's Testers" instead of Lenore's Heroes".
Sorry Lenore!

[ QUOTE ]
Valdermic (note Tigraine snuck in the bkgrd)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait. What did she do to her hair? And what's with the red stripes on her suit? And that freaky eye glow?
She must be under the influence of some greater force!

[ QUOTE ]
This also means that the effectiveness of your Enhancements are capped to the level of effectiveness of that weight classes' Enhancements. That means that your Hamidon Enhancement is considered at an S.O. or lower level, rather than +50%. You'll still have the advantage because two or three aspects are being boosted, but you won't have the overwhelming % advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me hazard a guess here. When you speak of caps to the effectiveness to enhancements, are these at the same levels that the effectiveness of SOs are capped?
Because I was RSKd to a lvl 39 the other day, and the recharge boost from (tohit/def/recharge) HOs was still 50%...
With weight classes in bands of 5, that would mean that if this stays the same in the arena, HOs would retain their "normal" bonus even when fighting heroes down to at least lvl 35.

And if the caps are at the same levels they currently are for SOs, this would stay the same down to what, lvl 20? 15?
And below this they would give the bonus of SOs while SOs give the bonus of DOs?
And then as DOs instead of as TOs?


I'd say that if HOs are "killer" when fighting your own weight class, it seems like they might be "total annihilation" when fighting weight classes far below you. Not only will you have far many more enhancement slots, your enhancements will be providing higher bonuses, and they will give these bonuses to several things instead of to just one.




And on a slightly off-topic note...
[ QUOTE ]
If you battle in the Arena another hero in a weight class below you (weight classes are five level bands), you will be auto-exemplared to that weight class.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean that we can expect auto-exemplaring for TFs too?

[ QUOTE ]
Hamidon Enhancements boost either TWO aspects of a power by 50% or THREE aspects of a power by 30%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually.... The recharge boost on a ToHit/Defense/Attack Rate HO is 50%.

Defense and ToHit are obviously much harder to test, but it seems to me that HOs offer 150% of the bonus an SO provides to each of the bonuses involved (50% to those that give 33% for an SO and 30% to those that give 20% for an SO), regardless of the number of bonuses provided.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Done.

While we're at it we also support multi-team matches (like 4 teams of 2 Heroes each all duking it out).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooo! Tigraine! We GOTTA do this! You and me against the world! I'm REALLY good at pissing people off, so there should be no shortage of volunteers throwing themselves against our sharp point implements of death....

[/ QUOTE ]

And people always like to see me die, so they will probably stand in line for days just to get a chance to fight us.
They may even be willing to pay for the privilege!

[ QUOTE ]
I have a small group of around 4 players that I frequently team with. But AV's are so hard now that we can't do them with just us 4. In fact we need 8 people and most of them need to be close to lvl 50. So we have to go around a beg high lvl players to take pity on us and kill and AV with us. Even they sometimes have trouble with them. Thats not a fun time begging people to help us. We have 4 people we should be able to do it. Thats 1 Tanker, 1 Scrapper, 1 Controller and 1 Blaster all same level as AV is no match for AV. We can get them down to about 90% of their health in 10 mins but thats all. Their regen of health is at an insane rate combined with insane resists. They were hard before...now they are near impossible.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience most AVs should be able to be taken down by a well balanced group of 4, and your group makeup actually seems pretty ideal. Granted, some AVs are tougher to take down than others (Madame of Mystery comes to mind, I shudder at what she must be like after the update). What AVs are you having trouble with?

[ QUOTE ]
(I have no doubt that this will appear in sigs for years to come…)

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, that is what we call a prime example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If a player sees a boss of his level, he should probably get help...

[/ QUOTE ]
Who are willing to come into the already cleared mission, paste the boss in two minutes, and get no reward for their trouble (except a warm and fuzzy feeling for helping a frustrated fellow player). Right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am, and I know I'm not alone.

That said, I don't know if I like the implication that the standard response for an average hero running into an even boss should be "Whoops, I better run get some help".

It might all work out for the best though. I'll reserve final judgement until people have played around more with I3.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
anyway, I can kill you with my brain.

[/ QUOTE ]

No power in the 'verse can stop me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sir, I think there is a problem with your brain being missin'.


[/ QUOTE ]

Now let me think. You know, I believe you might be right.

[ QUOTE ]
anyway, I can kill you with my brain.

[/ QUOTE ]

No power in the 'verse can stop me.

[ QUOTE ]
Well I say lets blame scrappers who boasted for months how they kick around bosses for breakfast and solo Avs easily

All their fault.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's all the scrappers' fault!
Burn them all! Burn! Burn! Buuuurn!

<looks at my AT>

ehm... ehh...
Forget what I just said. Move along. Nothing to see here.
Have you hugged a scrapper today?


On a somewhat more serious note, my high-level experience with anything other than scrappers is very limited, so I don't feel qualified in definately saying if the new bosses are overall too hard or not, but my first impression would be that if an average player can't take down any boss whatsoever at his own level, then soloing (most of) your own missions will be hard indeed.
But like I said, I don't have enought non-scrapper experience to say if that is the case or not...

[ QUOTE ]
I think, December 23-25, everyone gets a temp power, they code snow on the ground, and we just scoop up a white rock and can toss it at enemies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another vote for snowballs. No damage necessary, just the ability to pelt each other with snowballs would be nice. Would also be great if the snowballs were given a fixed chance to hit (maybe 66%, 75%?) disregarding any difference in level, defense and accuracy bonuses. That would make it possible for lower level chars to hit higher level chars, and would also make it so that people with insane defense can be hit.

Santa hats would also be nice...


Oh, and my SG challanges anyone to Snowball War!


<gets hit in the back of the head>
Hey! We are on the same team here!

[ QUOTE ]
3. Mission Slider - Update 3.


[/ QUOTE ]

Mission Sliders are a great idea. Really looking forward to it.

One question though. Harder missions have greater risk, and I therefore assume they will have greater rewards.
Won't this make it much harder to complete all your missions without outleveling your contacts?

I'm probably going to regret this, but...


[ QUOTE ]
I can't find it now, but many moons ago, one of the devs posted a SR / Inv comparison that said in effect that SR (i.e. DEF) was better at holding off minions, while Inv (i.e. damage resistance) was better against bosses.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, this is kinda interesting. This seems to be the common perception, but... in some (limited) ways it is actually the other way around.
At least when we compare pure def against pure res.

Take the case of 75% def vs. 90% res (cap). The def case will cap the mobs effective ToHit at the 5% cap up to mobs with 80% base ToHit.

Against mobs with 50% base ToHit (e.g. even minions), both cases will take the same amount of damage over time (0.1*0.5=0.05 for res vs. 0.05 for def)

For mobs with base ToHit lower than 50% (that would be lower than even minions) res would take less damage than def
(example at mob 40% base ToHit: 0.1*0.4=0.04 for res, still 0.05 for def)

For mobs with base ToHit between 50% and a certain point (which I will mention later) def takes less damage than res. The maximum difference between them would be at the point where def no longer caps the mob at 5% effective ToHit, in this case at 80%. Even bosses fall into this range.
(example at mob 80% base ToHit: 0.1*0.8=0.08 for res, 0.05 for def)

At one point both res and def will once again negate the same amount of damage. In this example this will be between 83-84 mob base ToHit. Obviously this point will vary depending on how much def we have in the def case.
After this point res will once again negate more damage than def.

So basically pure (relatively high) def is better than pure (capped) res at negating damage against even LTs and bosses.
Against higher level bosses res will once again be better unless we are talking about reeally high def.

And this is just in the sense of negating direct damage. res will run lower risk of getting taken down by a few lucky shots and def will be (much) better at avoiding secondary effects.


Now, neither of these cases should have any trouble against even mobs, so to make things interesting the comparison should be made against higher level mobs. Normally this would put bosses above the base ToHit where res once again becomes more effective (unless we have really high def), so basically the original claim is correct. Just wanted to point out that it isn't always the case.

And once we allow for the more real situations where people can have both def and res things rapidly become more complex...


Sorry, please return to your regularly scheduled posting.