Standoff

Still hoping for the PvP Pedant teams here.

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Would anyone want to / be able to set up a Pendant team?

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Hey, now this is PvP I could do really well at!

/em Looks closer

Ah - Pendant team - missed the "n" on first reading.

Nice one London! Account not full of 50s yet?

No more energy blast powers to unlock, but you do get new powers unlocked at 35 and 38 from your secondary set.

You also get to choose powers from one ancillary power pool in your 40s (only the one ancillary pool at once, but you can change pool if you respec).

Gratz, especially for managing the ding in the early hours when you should be weeing.

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It will be an odd situation.

You can supply CM every 3 secs or so, I was showering the CM's onto the tank for the Ghostwidow showdown and it was still a pretty close-call.
Even with a suitcase full of 20 'Escapes' costing 80-100,000 inf a pop that fight would have to be over pretty darn quick and we all know that doesn't happen often with Ghostwidow, she is still going to hold the tank and kill him and the MoSTF will fail due to (what i suspect) is a misplaced nerf initiated by PvP concerns.

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For what it's worth it looks like the Ghost Widow change might even be the objective rather than a side effect:

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Castle: Antidote, Increase Density and O2 Boost will no longer provide stacking status protection.

Ghost Widow's Hold is meant to be completely irresistible by design. The fact that Break Free's and stacked protections circumvents that design is not intended, but I have no intention of altering that fact at this time.


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Source

Inarguable.

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At last - someone who understands. I think it may be wasted on the bohemian hippies though.

Science teacher = I win!


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Not automatically, any more than I'm automatically right. You reach agreement through argument, not throwing insults around - I've given my opinion, which wasn't exactly addressed in any detail.

Want to try again?

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FATALITY!!!!1!!!!

Told you I was uber!

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You've told us many other things - opinion's divided on them being right, too.

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There we go. Football, a game, is just a branch of science. Sid Waddell says so. From this we can extrapolate that the game CoX, and all parts thereof, including PvP, are actually science.

FACT.

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I am Standoff, and I endorse this argument.

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Nope - you've taken the word science in a very narrow context. A common mistake.

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Really? I've taken my definition on the basis of personal experience, and every dictionary/encyclopaedia entry I've ever seen.

What's your definition, and what supporting references are available?

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Your personal experience? I didn't realise that a scientist was defined as someone who sits around all day with their thumb up their bottom.

Every dictionary/encyclopaedia entry that you have read eh? Now lets see. That would be none then. I'll tell you this. You have never, ever opened a dictionary/encyclopaedia and looked up the word science. NEVER. And if you say you have then you are a liar. I KNOW YOU!

Now you ask me my definition? Let me ask you this. Does God know geomitry or can he do quadratic equations?

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If that's the best response you can come up with, I think I'll count this one as a win for me.

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Nope - you've taken the word science in a very narrow context. A common mistake.

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Really? I've taken my definition on the basis of personal experience, and every dictionary/encyclopaedia entry I've ever seen.

What's your definition, and what supporting references are available?

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There is nothing that you can prove exists that doesn't fall into the realm of science. Every particle of matter and every bit of energy are governed by scientific rules. We may not have all of those rules in our books but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Religion and art are not the opposite of science. They too are subject to laws and theorems. Art is quite scientific. Anyone remember the golden rectangle? Religion is studied part of social sciences like psycology and sociology.

Like I say, every particle or group of particles is subject to laws. Just because we don't know the complete formula, doesn't mean that those laws don't exist.

I don't know the formula for why some people like the Mona Lisa - but that doesn't mean that there isn't one.

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You've confused science and the natural laws.

Natural laws are, by definition, the rules absolutely everything obeys, so while "There is nothing that you can prove exists that doesn't fall into the realm of natural laws" is true, it doesn't actually say anything useful.

Science, on the other hand, is an entirely human activity - the process we use to try to infer what the natural laws are, so we can make predictions and plan our actions on the basis of how we think things will behave.

As the link Shannon posted said, strictly speaking science doesn't definitively prove what things are; rather, it involves putting forward a hypothesis as to how things might work, then attempting to disprove it by observation. If enough attempts at disproof fail, it's provisionally accepted as an accurate reflection of the way things work. That's where theories (c.f. Relativity) come from.

A lot of things can be subjected to the scientific process, from the fundamental behaviour of the universe (physics) to the rather fuzzier behaviour of people and cultures (anthropology, sociology, etc...)

Some things, like religion, are just plain outside of science - if you propose the existence of an omnipotent, supernatural and invisible God, who only intervenes in an observable way when He/She/It chooses, there's just no experiment you can do to disprove such a proposition. You can attempt to form a scientific argument as to why people follow religions, c.f. Dawkins, but that's a different matter again - such an argument doesn't address the truth or falsehood of a religion itself.

Similarly art doesn't really involve any sort of falsifiable hypothesis. An artist will paint/draw/build/whatever something, and say "That's art". Some people may agree with that, others may not, but there's no generally accepted way of proving the matter one way or another. So producing, or judging, art isn't a scientific process.

You see the difference?

SweetChilli, apparently.

And this isn't a Super Hero game, it's a discussion forum for PvP, which is why we're using it to discuss whether PvP is a science or not.

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Oh and a strong defence from Standoff, can Chilli possibly come back from that one.....

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I had the easy side of the argument; it's always harder to defend a statement that claims to be universally true ("anything that isn't science doesn't exist").

Especially when that statement's wrong.

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PvP should be a science.

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What a stupid statement. Show me something that isn't science and I'll show you something that doesn't exist.

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This, this and this, to name a random few?

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I fail to see which of those 3 things do not involve science.

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Only the Quaker one doesn't really involve science as thats religion and thats about beliefs and not hard facts.
Caves are made by science and the Turner Prize i'm not too sure about lol. PvP is maths mostly as there are all sorts of numbers going on. You could argue it was an art form, especially kiting and being able to anticipate. The science is in the planning and learning from what is going on so you don't make the same mistake twice.

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I'd love to hear how Quakerism involves science too - care to enlighten us, Chilli? Same for the Turner Prize.

As far as caves involving science is concerned, I'd have to differ. The dictionary definition of science is that it's a system of practice or knowledge; something is a product of science if it's come into existence as a result of people practising this system, or using knowledge obtained through it.

Caves, on the other hand, are formed as a result of natural processes. Science may identify the laws underlying these processes, but the natural laws and processes aren't science in themselves.

Edit: Plus the things I were point out as not-science were the cave paintings, rather than the caves themselves. So that's 4 things that aren't science.

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PvP should be a science.

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What a stupid statement. Show me something that isn't science and I'll show you something that doesn't exist.

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This, this and this, to name a random few?

A typically equivocal signup - should be able to make this with Arcmite (23 Elec/Elec blaster). Again, SK welcome to help me zap those big scary wolves.

Yep, great fun, despite the defenders malevolently using their buff and heal powers to keep the blasters off the floor.

Thanks to all!

If there's still a space going I'll try to make it with Arcmite (20 Elec/Elec Blaster - mentor very welcome!).

Will try to bring my Necro/Dark along for this (currently lvl 40) - if nothing else my private SG needs that last exploration badge that sits on top of the ship, inside the forcefield...

Related question: Is it worth relatively low level MM's trying to keep up with the initial beacon takedown? Tried it a while ago with my Bots/Poi on Union, and the options seemed to be:

1) Use Group Fly - so much slower than even regular Fly that the action on each beacon's over before you get there.

2) Use Fly yourself and let the pets catch up/auto-respawn as they can - you arrive on time, but the pets pick up all sorts of aggro on the way over and often arrive too late, or not at all.

3) Fly, resummoning at each beacon - you arrive on time, but even if the summons have recharged the pets take so long to bring on and power up you can't really contribute much.

After stumbling through 1-3 for the first half-dozen beacons I finally went with:

4) Don't even try to use the pets, and just concentrate on buffs, debuffs and heals to help the direct combatants.

Am I missing a trick here?

I'm reliably informed that Dr Toerag collected his 4th level 50 over the last few days - gratz Doc, and good luck with the defender you'll need to complete the AT set!

Another 50, and a DB/WP yet (mine's just reached lvl 15, so not far behind...) - gratz!

Nice one Max - gratzificating time again!

Gratz to you!

To celebrate the greatness of the event, Coin must wait on you for the entire Christmas week!

Gratz KQ/RT/Medi - and Coin's wrong, it's 22 to go!