St_Angelius

Well, all that blasters get is damage.



Doms got a buff fairly recently, to their damage, which infinged heavily on the role of Blasters.


Both have recieved damage buffs and infringed on blasters. Especially 'fenders with thier most recent buff.


Again, all have received buffs to their damage that blasters haven't and encroaching on blasters roles.

yes, different people are asking for those things, and apart from some extreme examples, no-one is asking for ALL of them. and those that are tend to quickly put down for being far too unrealistic

But that's the thing, Blasters made the sacrifice, then every other AT got a free buff to their damage with no sacrifice. Now blasters sacrifice isnt worth their gain. and as their damage cannont, aparently, be buffed any more, or at least much more, what else can be done to bring them back to where they should be?



No, that's not what is being asked for, as least not by the majority. What we want, for the most part, for changes to the tools we already have that allow us to survive a bit longer to deal the damage that we are supposed to be able to, without having to trade off our already not greatest damage, range or otherwise, to do so.

I for one am not in favour of complete changes to Blaster secondaries. far too many of my blasters make use of some of the melee powers in them. yes, a lot of them, for my play style, are situational, but those situations come up often enough to be a lifeline most of the time.





As I say, I very much like that idea, but someone like Arcanaville would be able to speak more on how posible it is. I only know as much of the mechanics as I do from reading her posts.

Ummmm, you might want to do your maths again. If a one ranged and one melee power on a blaster have the exact same base damage the range power will infact do the higher damage due to their range modifier being higher then their melee modifier. 1.125 for range and 1.0 for melee.

So, basicly, you are saying that to judge the perfomance of a DPS toon, we shouldn't judge it by comparing it to the other DPS classes, but only to the support classes? Somehow that doesn't sound right to me. Yes, blasters are supposed to be squishie, but that is also supposed to be the price for their superior damage output, which they are far from having. and if the significant buffs to their DPS is out the window, as has been hinted at, then surely it falls to improving thier survivability, somehow, to make up for that lack of superior DPS that that are supposed to have but don't?



No-one is asking for that. No-one is saying turn blasters into Doms/corrs/brutes with range or anything of the sort.


Yes, that would be very nice, but from the devs own comments in the past, we are unlikely to see the sort of changes needed to bring blasters up to that level through buffs to damage recharge or end cost alone. which is kinda the point of this thread. exploring whatelse can be done.

If i am understanding you correctly, that is a very interesting idea. Each attack having a scaling damage based on didtance to the target. so shot to closer targets deal more than shots to further away targets. Kind of how you would see in real life. Bullets, for example, losing velocity the further it travels thus giving less penetration, or fire cooling the longer is thrown, wave forms decaying the further they travel etc. makes perfect sence. if that is posible I cannot say, but I do like it!

seems to be the argument some of them use. The whole "Try using all these other things, (isps, IO's, Pools, Temps, Incarnates, etc) that all the other AT's get access to but don't need to use as much" argument.

I am completely with you there, it totally baffles me too. And that's all the people against changes to Blasters keep throwing out. And as I said in my last post, if playing blasters, an out of the box AT, is the only way they can get a challenge in this game, then that sound very broken to me. Blasters should play, to the same level as all other out of the box AT's at all difficulties.

If ANY AT's should be harder to master and harder to play or give more of a challenge, it should be the EAT's, the ones, that in the past, you had to wait till you had already got a toon to 50, but now 20 or buy from the store, to play. Khelds and SoA's should be the harder toons to plays, by virtue of being a lot more limited in their posible combinations. After all, the design principle behind them seems, to me at least, to be, "here is a character that only has these powers and no others. Lets see if you can do as well with them" Yes, blasters have fewer choices in powers than many other AT's, in joint last place with Dom's for secondaries, and little thematic pairings, but they still have far more choice that the EAT's.

And if any of the basic AT's should be hard mode, it should be those the devs have already deemed to be too advanced for newbie freems to play, unless the have thrown some money at the game, MM's and controllers. No, I don't think blasters are horribly broken and unplayable, but then, I didn't think stalkers were either, but I love playing stalkers almost as much as my blasters, and even more so since the recent buffs, even if the change in play style has made my main stalker much more of an end hog than she used to be. That is the sort of buff Blasters need. Not the complete game changing re-design that some poeple have asked for, but just something to make them better at what they do.

Yes, agreed, not all Brutes can, not all Bontrollers, or any other AT, at least without some uber build. But as far as I know, no Blaster combination can do it.


Well all AT's, except blasters, have been in some fashion been buffed, over the years, to be equal. so why not?



I'm not asking for a complete re-design, like some, But I am opposed to this notion that there is no problem at all, or if there is it is very minor.

The option, as you put it, is simple. If you don't want 'hard mode', don't take a Blaster. Why should Blasters be saddled with this burden? Why should Blasters have to face a harder time in game? Why should blasters level slower? Just because some people want "More of a challenge" or a toon that they "Have to pay attention to their health bar" with?

Blasters are a Basic AT. They should be able to perform at the same level as all other AT's. Not in the same way. As said, Brutes and Controlers cand ramp the challenge up to the highest and deal with exactly the same threats in different ways without too much of a headache. Blasters should, in thier own way, be able to do the same. No, I don't solo at +4X8 on anything. Some AT's, like my elec/elec/body scrapper I can push up to +0X4/X5. The best I can hope for on my main, who shas sacrificed damage output for survivability manage +0X3, maybe X4, depening on the group, but it would be a slow struggle, where I would need to push my Scrapper up to X6/7 for the same challenge. Every AT is supposed to have their "Thing". Tankers have uber armour and can take any pounding, Controllers have thier Uber Mezz powers and can shut down most anything. Brutes get more damage the longer they fight, Defenders get superior buffs/debuffs etc. What is blasters "thing"? Well, aparently it's dealing damage, so why isn't their damage dealing the best in the game? Well, part of that reason is they are either mezzed or dead. Which is why so many people focus on those things.

The rest is thier damage. If damage is thier thing, they should be the best at it, not second or 3rd or 4th best, but THE best. That isn't the case. They pay the ultimate price for thier damage output, but if others can match, or better that damage output and still remain more survivable then that is a design flaw.

That along with all the "well you not doing it right, try this" style posts is infuriating. Just because YOU have no problem and have learned to manage doesn't mean everyone has. I mostly play blasters, but I do have at least one of every AT, and in most cases more than one. Of my 5 50's, 3 are blasters. But each of my blasters take much more effort to get them to perform at the same level as my other AT's. I have an L42 scrapper that far outperforms my incarnate blasters. That is a problem. No blasters should do everything just like those other AT's, but should be able to be at the same level with the same ammount of effort.

And as for the Just coz brutes can solo on +4X8 doesn't mean blasters should be able to. well, why the hell not? Controllers can, corruptors can, defenders can. why shouldn't blasters be able, at peak performance levels, be able to perform to the same peak as every single other AT in the game?

Are blasters unplayable? No
Are blasters un soloable? No
Do blasters have a harder time and have to rely on tools outside of that AT far more than all other AT's? Yes, and that is the problem.

Just because there are ways to overcome those problems doesn't mean the problems don't exist. It's no suprise to me that those people who are saying that blasters don't have a problem are also saying they play/like blasters because thay are no "easy mode" or because the "like a challenge". Well, if Blasters are the only AT that provides a challenge, does that, in itself, not show that blasters have a problem compared to all other AT's in game?

Hehehe, it may be rough, but well done Arcana. Yet another example of why I am proud to be a part of this community.

Ah, well, duh to me!

You're welcome

Well, I don't know where you are getting Talos Island from, but the bet is quiet straightforwardly laid out in the OP.

But basicly, back in the beta for I20.5, when Null the gull was added as a contact in Pocket D for people to turn off the option of having speed buffs applied from such powers Speed Boost, Accelerate Metabolism etc and to automatically accept or refuse buffs such as Mystic Fortune, Lazarillo and Arcanaville had a discussion about weather those options would or would not be added to the UI for ease of use to the player base. Laz was firmly in the camp that this was all the Devs were going to do to add those options where as Arcana believed that it was only a stop gap measure till the Devs figured a way to add it to the UI. Arcana laid out a theory that by the release of I23 we should know one way or another. The pair of them settled it with a friendly bet along Arcana's time frame where the looser "must post a picture of themselves bowing before Null the Gull while extolling the foresight of the other."

Well, I23 is here and Arcana had admitted defeat in this case and her forfeit will be paid soon (TM).

Exactly the point I was making, with better math thrown in. Now, I may not be as good with the math as, say, Arcana is, but I'm good enough. But then, I'm a firm believer that obverved results are are more reliable than on paper figures. As you demonstrate, on paper, scrappers and blasters should have a roughly equal kill speed, but in practice that is rarely true as scrappers have the tools necersary to keep on scrapping almost non-stop, but blasters have to slow down, stop, or use outside help, like insps, to even come remotely close.

Now, no, I don't necersarilly think blaster should get huge damage increases, but like Arcana has put forward, they need some form of built in tools, be they inherant changes or changes to powers, to allow them to keep up.

Now, straight out, the numbers may not look as good, but being my main Neo is also my badging toon, so also has those nice accolade click defense powers that fit in very nicely and allows me to slog it out with most EB's toe to toe. Yes, that could be room for improvement, like fitting in that nice looking ATO in there, but as i'm unlikely, as yet, to be buying any super packs, it'll have to do. Does he have problems at times? Yes, but what blaster doesn't solo. But I can solo the final missions of both Sister solaris and dream doctor, even before I had anything beyond my alpha at teir 2, so for me, he does well enough.

Ok, I only found this tread yesterday and am trying to catch up, but I just had to reply to this. Why? Because it is utter nonsense.

A blaster can't function without the fight pool? What utter rubish. My first 3 toons to 50 were blasters. All 3 of them did a good portion of getting there soloing. How many of them took the fight pool? None. well, ok, once inherant fitness was released (well, when I was able to play again after inherant fitness) I respeced my main, Neo-Chamber, into the fight pool, but that is a very recent thing for me. Yes, I'll admit he has better survivability now than before, but I didn't have that much of a problem before. My second 50 on the other hand, Tess Trueshot doesn't, and never will, as I have far bigger priorities in her build. She solo'ed most of her journey to 50, taking out EB's with impunity along the way. Yes, she can go down much quicker if anything gets into melee range, but she is more capable, for the most part, of making sure things are dead before they can.

As for your Eden trial example, Well, Neo is my badging toon. Ge took part in the eden trial long before inherant fitness and thus having the fight pool, and guess how many times he died on that trial..... Not once. I dealt a large portion of the damage to take out both the mold wall and crystal titan AV's no problem. And no, I wasn't relying on my team mates to carry me, I was more than capable of looking after myself thank you very much.

As to the whole mez debate. I don't see what the fuss is really. I've been playing Neo for 4 years, and am still struggling to get the 12 hour mez badge for his collection, and rarely feel the need for break frees. and without the aid of acrobatics. I respeced out of that long ago as I couldn't justify the end cost. I won't deny it's usefulness, but it doesn't fit every build and should not be hammered into any build if something else is going to suffer because of it. Clarion? Pffff, Barrier for Neo, and Tess. Both offer much more to thie builds than Clarion does. After all, an attack that doesn't hit can't mez.

Do I feel blasters need something? Yes, certainly. Dispite how much I love my blasters, I see how much of an easier time all the other AT's I play have in just about every situation. I don't know what that help would be though. A buff to damage? Maybe, blasters are supposed to be the damage kings after all, but I know that could be hard in balancing so as not to trivialize the game for any blaster. Maybe a reduction in end costs and recharge times so as to raise blasters DPS rather than DPA, but still, could be tricky balancing. I do like Arcanavilles mez pulse suggestion, and like someone else pointed out, that's kinda like what KB is for energy blasters. More HP could be useful, after all, even with tanker HP, the blaster is stil gonna be super squishie with no in built defences. But I doubt that will ever happen.

In short, I don't know what the solution is. Blasters, for me as a blaster player at least, should be about walking the line of life and death with every encounter. Blaster should purely be about killing them before they kill you. Blaster should be at the top of the damage table, not halway up and at the bottom of the survivability table. There in lies the fun, for me at least, in playing a blaster. But as is now, that isn't the case. We are far from the top but still the squishiest, so have to add in defences to make up for our lack of offence.

Didn't quite make my day, but did give me a nice chuckle

She's around, I see her posting in other threads!

People like me must weird you out a lot then GG

though that might need a little extra clarification if not familier with my gender identity

What's weird to some is perfectly natural for others GG

Yeah, and that is the problem, seems like it's a Premmies sale. great discounts for them, which is nice, but nothing other than consumables and some head options that VIP's won't already have.

oh, I agree, and I do see the use in this proc even if I think it's a tad OP as is for the same reasons others have said. I've proved myself often to know how to handle my KB on teams and haven't had complaints on my actual perfomance since I was still new to the game. KB heavy sets like Energy blast have a steep learning curve early on as you learn to manage the mechanic, but once you have it is quick to master.

I keep hearing of the difficulties people have leveling energy blasters, well mine, Neo-Chamber, was my first 50. Ok, it took me a year to get there, but that was more to do with my altism than any inherant problems in the set and joining my SG, GGRRR, was a boon in that it made me concentrate on just a few toons at as time rather than playing a different toon daily.

Playing any energy blaster is one of the most fun experiences I've had in game. It's so satisfying KBing a group of enemies but into geomatry elements like fences and railings and watching them failing there unable to to get off as I take my time finishing them off.

Er, nope, not at all. I've been stupid enough in the past to join a pug from a blind with my energy/energy blaster only to enter a mission and before I have a chance to fire a single power and having the team leader say "KB Sucks" (Or words to that effect) and *poof* I'm kicked from the team. That wasn't an isolated incident either. Had plenty more teams that haven't cared, and never had complaints on my KB use on those teams, as I do tend to KB mobs towards melee types or back into groups if there is someone locking stuff down. KB is an extremely useful tool.

No, I don't think this proc will make a huge difference to the ammount of people who are jerks over players using KB powers, but it does legitamise their jerkish behaviour

"The Devs hate KB too, that's why they made the new proc!"

Ummm, false, KB foe, immedieatly hit the snipe and hit before he is even off the ground. Sounds like the best time to me.

Enemies not attacking for much longerthen KD'ed enemies?

oh, I know, and agree. Would just like the devs to actually do something one way or an other. It's just so annoying there being badges that I should be able to get but can't. My badging main is pulling his hair out the way things are going at the moment.