Sprite Fire
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Posts
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Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
You owe me a new monitor. I just shorted mine out spewing Coke all over it.
You missed where I said *SPIKE* didn't you.
How much do you regenerate when you've been two-shotted in under a second?
with softcapped (48 s/l, 45 fire/cold, 50 en/neg) defense i'll tell you what happens when you're 2 shotted... when it happens.
Because the next time it happens will be the first.
~as for end drain... the detractors of WP are right, it can be a problem if you're not built for it... i went with the energy epic to stack some more +regen/+recov [Physical Perfection], also got the end reduction button [Conserve Power]. Use that far more often then SoW. It's my panic button when there is a horde of sappers working on my WP. Doesn't happen much, sometimes you can be sapped... especially if your rec gets debuffed... so it's nice to have an ace in the hole -
Quote:Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
You should try replacing those luck of the gamblers defense/recharge with recharge speed. It adds the same defense but the recharge is global.
In addition swapping those basic invention: Healing with a third Numeria's convalescence will add a max HP set bonus which helps with Regen.
In addition eventually whin you have the spare cash you might want to cosider sacrificing a slot in Rise to the challenge for another in health and adding the PVP IO Pancia: +hit points/end to it.
Lastly the gladiator's armor PVP IO will mace a nice replacement for the resist IO in Strength of Will.
That's all I can suggest for the will side of things. I don't know enough about Ice to help there.
I like to slot pricey... but that's slotting rich my friend. sure i could have posted a "wishlist" io slotting... but it will be hard enough for most people to find the kin combats (let alone scrapping up the inf for them) -
I think people groan at Mo Attempts more for the stress then because they hate the badge. no one wants to be the first person to die. as the TF goes on it gets more tense.
Not many people like that.
Throw in the fact that for a time you could set STF/ITF/whatever to -1 dif to get your easy Mo badge, something that was REALLY exploited for a while before it was fixed... and the value of a Mo badge vanished for a lot of people. -
Quote:spoken like someone who's never really played a real wp tankerOriginally Posted by Hyperstrike
Actually no. WP is still quite vulnerable to massive spikes of energy and fire damage that happen to bypass defense.
A similarly IO'ed-to-the-gills Invuln has over three times the resistance to non-S/L damage and better S/L resistance outside of SOW. Essentially SOW brings a WP tank to a toughness parity with Invuln. But it's not perma.
when you have 3000 hps, and are regenerating close to (or more then) 200hps per second, the occasional fire/en/neg/cold damage that slips past your softcapped defense won't scratch you in the least. Really, even when something big (like a 54 AV) is hitting you with something you don't res well (like fire) for 700 hps a shot (assuming it can hit you 100% of the time because of some debuff), it's own attack animations will take longer then it takes you to regen the damage from his hits. thats when you know you are in fact a god.
seriously you need to mob my WP tanker with more then 4 AVs before i might start to think about using SoW... apart from "kill all" attacks like vs BM, or hami's "ignore all def/res" -regen attacks, nothing really scratches my WP.
SoW has no real crash either (not that i really ever need it, and don't really use it, so perma SoW isn't really a concern anyway) -
here... this is a very old rad build of mine... it's a mess and can be cleaned up a bit; probably should be softcapped on def and perma am, but you did say cheep... and this is a very old build. but it seems to be just fine (for survivability); and doesn't do badly solo.
slide hasten into the build and it will have perma am.. maybe perma hasten... depends how you work it. but this is probably a good starting point; as it functions as sorta a mini troller hybrid, with some insane debuff and solid attack chain.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Dct'dW-Heal(25)
Level 1: Neutrino Bolt -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(11), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 2: Accelerate Metabolism -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(3)
Level 4: Radiation Infection -- DampS-ToHitDeb(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg(5), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(9), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(11), DampS-Rchg/EndRdx(46)
Level 6: Hover -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(A), Zephyr-Travel(7), Zephyr-ResKB(7)
Level 8: Mutation -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Recall Friend -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Teleport -- Jnt-Rng(A), Jnt-EndRdx(15), Jnt-EndRdx/Rng(15), TSM'n-Stlth(43)
Level 16: Lingering Radiation -- TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(17), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(17), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow(40), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(43)
Level 18: X-Ray Beam -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(19), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 20: Irradiate -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(21), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(21), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 22: Choking Cloud -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(23), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(23), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(37), Lock-%Hold(43)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Fallout -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(27), Posi-Dmg/Rng(37), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 28: Cosmic Burst -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(29), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam(31), RctvArm-EndRdx(34)
Level 32: EM Pulse -- EnManip-Stun%(A), EndMod-I(33), Acc-I(33), RechRdx-I(33), Lock-%Hold(34)
Level 35: Neutron Bomb -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 38: Atomic Blast -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Oppressive Gloom -- EndRdx-I(A), RzDz-Immob%(50)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(45), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), RctvArm-ResDam(45), RctvArm-EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Soul Drain -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(48), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(48), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(48), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Soul Transfer -- Heal-I(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Radial Boost
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A)
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i'd go with nerve... you get a nice boost to def, which will up your survivability, and a solid boost to acc.
Musculature should only be an option if your def is softcapped and you have no end issues. -
ok... i tinkered with it a bit... here is what i got for you. The main problem with your first attempt was the low def. You should be able to softcap a WP's def.
This will be a little lower on total damage output then your first attempt, though it will be much more survivable.
This will really rock btw:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Heal-I(33), RctvArm-ResDam(34), RctvArm-EndRdx(34)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(25), RctvArm-ResDam(37), RctvArm-EndRdx(37)
Level 4: Ice Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(40)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(9), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Numna-Heal/Rchg(42), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(42), ToHitDeb-I(43)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(11), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 12: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(13), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(13), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(43), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(43)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(17), RgnTis-Regen+(17), Heal-I(45)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Def(25)
Level 20: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Quick Recovery -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(23), EndMod-I(23)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(27), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), RctvArm-ResDam(33), RctvArm-EndRdx(34)
Level 28: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Def(33)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 35: Greater Ice Sword -- KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(39), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(45), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(46), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(46)
Level 44: Ice Blast -- Acc-I(A)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- AirB'st-Acc/Dmg(A), AirB'st-Dmg/EndRdx(48), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(48), AirB'st-Dmg/Rng(48)
Level 49: Freezing Touch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 50: Nerve Total Radial Revamp
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Heal-I(45), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
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WP is funny, because it's actually pretty squishy without io's in comparison to other tankers with a clean (read empty) slotting.
But with a propper IO stratagy, you'll softcap all your def (except psy, not sure how to get that softcapped as well), and boost your regen into the stratosphere. Then it's just a basic god mode. I won't start an argument over what tanker type is the toughest. I have a lvl.50 stone, and a lvl.50 wp. I also have a lvl.50 invun brute. They're all insanely tough.
If i had to rank them on pure toughness it would probably be stone or wp then invun slightly under them... Stone requires less effort to turn into god, but it has all those pesky self debuffs. WP requires a lot more effort to turn into god... but once you're there you'll probably out survive most situations that will take down a stone tank. -
Quote:yes... fire tankers are probably the squishiest... you can offset that if you can build your s/l def... you should probably take the hint that since rise of the phoenix is a power in the power set, that you should take it.Originally Posted by _Elektro_
Hey guys,
I'm in this big Tanker phase of CoH I guess and I just started up a 'pure' good ol' fashioned Fire/fire tank.
He seems really fun, but when I look at builds posted, and the build I've made in Mids a few things stick out at me.
Would it be safe to say that Fire tanks are probably the squishiest?
Would it be safe to say Fire tanks (with fire secondary) can do the most damage? The most AOE damage for certain I would imagine?
I made a build and it seemed like my Electric Tank is more durable, and thanks to two powers in Elec/elec, better at mitigating damage through crowd control.
But where Elec/Elec probably falls behind Fire/Fire is in pure damage output. Both might seem to have issue with Knockback?
Anyway just wondering how Fire compares overall to the modern tank sets.
You'll be fine for +1 or +2 stuff... but being squishy will really start to show once you get into +3 or +4 mobs. Only good advice i got for you is build your s/l def as high as you can get it to help your toughness out a bit... maybe get cadiac to boost your res a bit. and hope for the best. -
Quote:Originally Posted by ImpulseKing
Got one from a LGTF run, and I'll admit right off a little more questioning may have nipped it in the bud. So I'm on my Ice/Traps Corrupter and the team mix seems reasonable although we have only one melee, a tanker.
We are discussing difficulty and agreeing this will be a shard run when the tanker chimes in that he wants +2s. In my head I'm thinking "..wha.. why? Oh well it's an easy TF, so why not?" We set it to +2 without arguing over it. Forgetting that while many of us had, in fact, played together before this was still an untested PUG.
While in general it being +2 was a slowdown and many deaths happened with regularity, it wasn't until Hami that it went REALLY wrong...
Now as I said, many of us were earning debt badge credit already so we knew Hami would be more challenging than normal. In fact 2 of us alted out and emailed in EoEs (Yes I was one of them.) Although not until a teamwipe or 2. So we have by now gone through the whole recital of which Mitos are vulnerable to what a few times. We gather, set a target, pop the EoEs and charge a yellow, except for the tanker. He is off trudging slowly toward a green. We took down that yellow but wiped before we could take a 2nd. Tanker then complains that his shields aren't doing anything. I swear over the internet I could just HEAR 6 other facepalms happening. So we repeated to him that Hami damage will indeedy render him about as squishy as the rest of us.
So his response? He goes off and hides behind a rock and stops talking to us for the remainder of the mish. With 4 yellows still up we have lost our melee. Oh yeah, fun times..
Now eventually we take Hami down, but you can imagine the carnage. We lose a Defender due to time, as we are over 2 hours into this by now. And my fiancee, who laughs when I die (unrelated story) is complaining her sides are hurting every time my Cor leads the charge at a yellow with only ghost slaying ax as a melee attack. But we DO get through it.
Now as we enter the final mish it seems we are at the 4 hour mark and it unanimously converts to a speed run. Thanked everyone upon completion and logged for about 3 hours of sleep before work, to tired to even use playernotes to 1-star that tank..
I think i knew where that story was going the moment you said 1 melee +2 level.
But that part about the tanker not knowing what hammy does kills me. I get being a n00b. that's fair. it's being an OVERCONFIDENT n00b that blows my mind. asking for +2 on a tf he's never tanked before? Classic! -
Quote:wait, what? Blasters are a support class?Originally Posted by ByteBait
I guess I was a little vague. I would like to stay away from melee and pets. Defenders, corruptors (and most will disagree) blasters are a support class.
So crabs or Dom? Is their a powerset combo that shines over the others that I should be looking at?
If that's your opinion then there is nothing that will fit the playstyle you want.
So you don't want melee (tanker/scrapper/brute/stalker), you don't want pets (troller/dom/VEAT/WS). and apparently you don't want serious ranged damage (blasters), nor do you want defenders or corruptors. Well i've got news for you, you don't want anything in the game.
The only thing i think that might fit what you're looking for is a petless fire/kin, which does not take SB or ID, so you don't have to bother with buffing anyone. Unfortunately for you, a true Kin anything will be in melee more often then not, due to the nature of it's heal and FS; so again, you don't want anything.
Are you trolling (no pun intended) your own thread?
There are few "world beater" classes... and i wouldn't consider 8/+1 to be world beating either. Any well IO'ed and well built level 50 character, should be able to deal with 8/1 mobs. Its when you're taking on 8, +2, +3, or +4 mobs that you see the true god mode'ers and the posers.
simply look at a list of the "best" farming AT/Powerset combos, and you'll find all the god mode character types.
Off the top of my head they are... Fire/Kin; (pick a non stone brute, preferably one with a damage aura, but it's not necessary); assorted scrappers (though spines/fire/dark/shield with electric melee seem to stand out); kin defenders or corrupter, fire/psy doms, so on and so forth... the list can get pretty long.
any blaster that can't kill a 8/1 mob before (s)he suffers life ending damage is really doing it wrong.Quote:Originally Posted by StrykerX
Probably "team-based class" would have been a better way to put it. The idea being that Blasters are somewhat poor soloists (in general, relative to some other classes) due to the fact that they focus totally on damage and therefore lack mitigation (not counting IOs). It's a fair description really... even softcapped Blasters perform a lot better with a tank-like character around to gather up mobs and take alpha strikes.
A blaster should be able to do enough burst damage in a short enough period of time to take out a 8/1 mob before it suffers serious damage.
If you don't believe me, i have a fire/en and dp/en blaster and an ice/ice blapper i'd like to intro you to... i also have a rad/fire blaster which is leveling nicely right now, which probably will be even more devastating then those three when it's done.
Too many people build blasters to cover for their faults... personally i prefer to build them to play into their strengths. When your blaster has a plethora of AOE/PBAOE and single target damage options, all slotted with an eye toward dam, acc and recharge... you have a global damage bonus of +100 or more, a to hit of +95% or more, a global ACC of +160% or more... throw in level shifting musculature to boost all your attacks into the 120+% damage range, and you'll literally melt mobs before they have a chance to do more then pee their pants when you attack.
Don't get me wrong... my ice/ice has softcapped s/l, and is much lower damage/rech then the dp and fire, that type of build works well too. But i personally prefer just overwhelming them in a heartbeat. -
nerve transformed my WP/DB tanker from a demigoddess into a full blown goddess.
-
depends what you're doing... but the two "best" are probably rad and cold with kin a very close 2nd
rad and cold have the huge -regen debuff which is so key for AVs. one can heal the other buff, depending on the team one or the other probably would be more helpful. both have a lot of varied debuff -
Nerve is like a godhood to my wp/db tanker.
due to the combo nature of DB, extra acc is always welcome. It adds to "taunt" effects, which of course is the lone glaring weakness of a WP tanker, ANNNND
Thanks to a little creative IO'ing, the def buff has my wp tanker softcapped vs every type of damage except psy (she's only at 41% for psy).
no other alpha slot power fits any of my characters as well as Nerve fits this one. -
I have a few weekly tf horror stories.
STF (it's almost always STF) - I was on my Brute when the TF was formed. The leader tells us nothing while he sets it up, though i do a quick look at the team composition my level of concern rises a bit. At the time i joined we had 2 tankers, me a brute, and a blaster. We need support desperately, debuff would be nice... heck a troller would have been great. He adds a 2nd blaster... now we're down to 2 spots. I suggest we use the last two spots for a healer... or debuffer or better yet something that does both. My concern was further heightened by the fact the 2 tankers are a lvl.45 no io'ed wp tanker (i love wp tankers, but lvl.45 with no ios?) who also happened to be the team leader... and a lvl.50 fire tanker... with no emp/kin for cm/id, no shields or buffs and no debuffs i had grave concerns for the fire tanker's ability to... you know. tank
Well i was assured by the team leader after i expressed my concern privately, that the fire tanker was "well io'ed" and very good... so my concerns were alleviated slightly. he then added another scrapper leaving us with 1 spot open
An ice/cold troller was looking for a team and i begged the team leader to get it on the team... figuring that with one last spot available, this would probably be the best one to get for us. The team leader said "cold sucks"... at this point i started to watch the broadcast for other STFs sensing disaster.
The team leader then grabs a TA/Archery defender and off we go... on a MoSTF (yes... he set it up as a MoSTF). Well the fire tanker died to Sands, which killed the MoSTF attempt before we got going. the leader claimed connection issues and logged off on the spot pretending to disconnect (i say pretending because he was back on with an alt forming a new STF 2 minutes later, global name is global name)... We won the fight without a team wipe because i was able to tank Sands and the spawn while the team took him out.
We continue on without the leader down one, the firetanker keeps faceplanting, sometimes on simple mobs, so i start to tank for the team something i didn't want to do because my brute can't tank LR toe to toe without some healing or buffing help (no temp powers for the flying trick, no one else on the team with flying as a travel power), and never tried to tank the 4 avs.
The fire tanker gets upset at kissing pavement even 2ndary tanking for me, and ragequits before we get to aeon. As a 6 person team we now grind our way slowly, though we're doing it and in defiance to the moronic leader we refuse to quit. We get to the council and somehow get through them, we get to lr... and i can't hold him. period. After trying and failing several times, so i figure since we have no buffs, and no way to tank LR, I suggest we ignore LR and just attack the towers and hope it all works out. We DID have a lot of damage on the team, so our reasoning was sound.
It was bloody, it was messy, but it worked. 4.5 hours later we completed the longest and bloodiest STF i've ever been on (i've been on failed ones, but none that took that long) -
Quote:my wp/db has this... but it's really only because i didn't have any extra slots with the new inherents, to really bother wiht new powers in the build.Originally Posted by Finduilas
I wonder about that too--I have a WP/DB tank, and skipping the Fitness pool was the obvious choice to me. When it was made inherent, it was a nice bonus, though.
Of course, I've seen WP builds with QR, Stamina *and* Physical Perfection, so I guess some players have a "can't get enough recovery" mindset.
i ended up taking it as an extra bit of protection from sappers; which in a year now has been the only cause of death for my wp/db tanker other then random superpower attacks getting lucky (did a reichsman 4 months ago and he did his pbaoe, it missed the whole team except for my tanker and took her down in 1 hit... apparently 3k hps doesn't go as far as it used to. that pissed me off.)
as to the question... db is nice, not the best damage you'll get but if you bump your acc and to hits and roll a few combos it's got enough extra effects to stand out. as someone who's played a lot of other tanker builds, i've found myself appreciate DB more and more as time has passed. it's really not too bad; what's really nice is the number of cone/pbaoe it can rip off. -
as someone with both i'll tell you the simple fact of it...
invun on paper is stronger then wp.
in practice WP seems to be 10X more durable.
The reason? lvl.40+ content is stacked with Psy damage... arachnos... shadow-shard critters... ritki... carnies... You'll learn to hate Inv in the epic levels, in the end the only way i could cope was io'ing for max psy def/res and losing a little recharge and general def (not that it mattered much) to keep the invun tanker going.
Throw in spending a fortune for io'ing a wp tanker properly and you'll never look back as even against damage types that mess it up, usually nothing can do enough damage, fast enough to even threaten a wp tanker. when you're recovering 200-250 or so hps/sec with softcapped s/l you'll realize that the only hole in WP is the crappy taunt. -
Quote:Originally Posted by StrykerX
Doh! Sorry, I meant to say soloing GMs can take hours. Granted, AVs can too on certain builds (like Tankers) but in general it's over in a few minutes.
as long as you have lingering radiation, and perma pa, you can solo most gms in 10-20 minutes.
I know my ill/rad took down jack in a little over 10 minutes... and eo in just under 15... rounded out with the kracken and the clockwork paladin in under 20 for each, for 4 gms in a little over an hour last weekend. -
I'm working on an electric/cold/ice right now...
the end sapping of that combo is breathtaking... the hold and lockdown of the trolling is astonishing as well.
I'd say the synergy is there for electric/cold dom to be a strong all round troller/team contributor.
rad and ta both go well with it as well...
I suspect you'll hate storm... storm pretty much clashes with everything electric is trying to do... as weird as it sounds there is almost no synergy between the two sets. -
Quote:My Ill/Rad is like .5 seconds from perma PA (at that point there really isn't any point to spending the fortune it would take to get the last few milliseconds of recharge to get perma pa)... and has perma AM...Originally Posted by SaraSparks
Thanks everyone, thats EXACTLY the kind of responses I was looking/hoping for!!!
It would have been like lvl 30 I would have realized why/what the differences are and then been frustrated w/the time spent. I do happen to have a TA/archer defender so I don't believe I'll go w/that since I just LOVE playing that toon and don't wish to take anything away from her w/basically an alt to her in a manner of speaking.
I'm fascinated w/the Illusion controller so I'll stick w/that and see what kinda fun it provides. I guess I'll try kinetics in a different supportive set to see if I can build it past my normal 30 mark and continue w/a Ill/rad and see what all the hub-bub is about.
Thanks for the responses again, very helpful.
SaraSparks
It can easily* solo most GMs and AVs... when i think of absurdly overpowered combos that one springs to mind.
*easily as in never get close to dying, it does take a little bit of time to kill them
Personally, while i have 2 lvl.50 kin trollers (a plant and a fire) and i love the strength of the set, i wouldn't play an ill/kin unless it was a concept build. most of the power of a kin is completely negated by the nature of the pets an ill troller gets.
That doesn't mean you can't build a good ill/kin, that just means i don't see how you can build a "great" AV/GM soloing monster that can singlehandedly hold off LR in a tankless STF -
The only TFs which should care about team composition is one which is very low level with a bunch of low level toons... or you're doing a hyper-speed run or trying to do a mo- (and even on the speed runs or mo... there are ideal builds but really it doesn't matter that much if your team knows what it's doing)
When i am TF building a team I'm more interested in how skilled a player is, not what AT they're playing.
I think its safe to say any STF demanding a "stone tanker" is pretty much screwed. Because all you need to know from seeing that is the team was built by a moron.
as a sidenote, in my experience players of Kelds have more to do with Kelds being unwelcome on some teams. Few players of kelds can actually play one... a well played Keld is welcome on my teams... a poorly played one on the other hands is about as unwelcome as an emp with no single target heals, clarity and fort... in short a poorly played ANYTHING is worthless. -
i'd take WP...
done right no other tanker def set can survive in pretty much any situation against pretty much any foe.
throw in a few kin combats on your melee attacks and you'll be softcapping your s/l defense, with the right io's you'll be pushing 35% def on every other type of damage... 200+ hp/sec regen in melee, 3000 hp base... nearly unlimited pool of stamina even against sappers... good res...
in general it's a set that will dominate against pretty much anything.. when done right.
When done poorly it's only above average.
The biggest downfall with WP will be agro control. -
Quote:Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
You have a secondary to deal with the taunt issue (ie: taking taunt and attacking people), but yes, the taunt from Willpower is negligable. But to call it rubbish is 'lol'.
I'd say for sheer survivability Willpower is a (small) step above Invulnerability.
yeah... WP is more survivable then invun... when you can regen 200 hps/sec yeah... of course it's more survivable then invun (frankly, in my experience, WP is more survivable then Stone in most situations too)...
The trick is WP's agro control sucks horribly bad... which for a lot of people nerfs their enthusiasm big time.
I love my WP tanker, but it's really frustrating to hold agro with her, no matter how badass she is. Invun gives you a slightly less survivable stone tanker with about the same agro management and none of the negs that stone comes with.
Of course it will be popular. -
I think the main problem highlighted was correct.
Tankers, as they stand now, are basically overkill. A proper scranker or (soon to be seen blueside) brute can do their job in 95% of game content at any level.
Hell, the moment i saw an 8 troller team pull off a MoSTF i knew tankers were completely unneeded in any well built team.
so we have a basic problem to address... a well built tanker is basically overkill for pretty much all of the content in the game... even a squishy tanker with an emp can tank pretty much anything in the game. The AT really isn't needed, except on poor teams.
So how do we keep this AT relevant after GR sees a horde of Brutes turn blue side and pretty much take away the point of a tanker?
-I don't have an answer for that; other then nerfing the survivability of scrappers/brutes/trollers/whatever just a little bit... to make the difference between the ATs a little more pronounced; as adding to the survivability of a tanker wouldn't solve the problem at all... while lowering the survivability of those ATs might make them relevant.
I don't think this is a good idea... it's my only idea on the topic. but i think this is a conversation we should have. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike
Yeah but with 7 toggles you have no endurance at all
my bs/shield scrap disagrees.
she runs 8 toggles, and runs a complete attack chain pretty much indefinitely (or at least i've never had end issues before everything is dead). no stamina problems.
I wonder if you've ever played one or are just talking like you have.