SokMunki

Statesman mentions the issues in this Test Server thread.

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And what exactly is the big honkin' problem with SS and SJ in PvE that warrants a nerf?

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I keep shooting off my text-mouth without reading: Statesman addresses the issues here.

I still don't see it with Super Jump... but I'll hop to that thread to babble about it.

Phew. That definitely makes me feel better, Statesman.

However, could you elaborate on what the significant PvE issues are with Super Jump and Super Speed? I don't know much about Super Speed, but I'm mystified by the Super Jump changes.

Thanks for the citation, SurgeCharge. That's what I was looking for:
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There’s also the issue of PvP. We’d like to avoid touching powers as much as possible because of PvP imbalances. This is mainly because a good many people don’t PvP and don’t plan to; we’d like to avoid affecting their game experience. Sometimes, however, there it is inevitable because there’s not another way to get balance.

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{emphasis mine} I interpret this as saying that the PvE experience for players, regardless of whether or not they participate in PvP, will change because there's a PvP imbalance... and not necessarily a PvE imbalance. I know very, very little about perma 'Moment' of Glory or, indeed, perma-anything... but I'm very skeptical about the need for Super Jump changes in PvE... among other changes.

Anyhow, I appreciate the link... even if it isn't what I wanted to hear.

EDIT: SablePhoenix wrote: "At this point, though, giving or taking doesn't matter. The players are tired of changes and just want the powers to be left alone. " I am not one of those players. If a power doesn't work well in the game, either because it's too weak or too strong, I definitely want the power changed. What I don't want is a power changed in PvE when it works just fine in PvE... because it doesn't work well in PvP. (Or vice versa, for that matter.)

Been out of town for a week, and only checked the forums briefly...

Would someone steer me towards a post that states that a power was 'nerfed' for PvE because of PvP and not because the developers decided it was overpowered as-is with PvE?

Thanks.

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Way to bump an ancient topic.

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Thread necromancy!
Threadomancy!
DOOOOOOOOM!

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The fact is that every character needs to connect with the audience, and because tragedy generally invokes deeper, more significant feelings in the reader, it doesn't necessarily have to be well written to come off as poignant. A goofy, off the wall character risks being shallow and immature (and perhaps he/she is), if all he can do in a tragic situation is crack wise- even if that is in character. However, a dark, brooding character will rarely have to display any other emotion even in the happiest of times.

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Just wanted to riff off of this. A shocking revelation, I know, but: many RPers engage in RP to enact a fantasy life. How this translates for a lot of people is:

1) The Power Trip: You are the biggest, baddest thing on the block. You are dark and scary, a grim harbinger of cruel Justice who causes lesser beings to shiver when you pass. This frequently dovetails with the 'amoral antihero' type, the 'I would be a villain but CoV isn't out yet' people. (I suspect there's a similar draw to the GTA series of games; I know I've wanted to leap from my car and pound on a pedestrian from time to time.)

2) Pity Me: These are the people who tend to have tragedy upon tragedy in their backgrounds, compounded by the various tragedies that happen during gameplay ("People are after me because I'm... I'm a dirty *mutant*!" You... you don't think I'm vile... do you?") They like the comfort they (try to) elicit from others. In plots they're frequently kidnapped/hunted/abused.

3) Crunchy Outside, Chewy Inside: A composite of the two types, who tries to draw people in so they'll cheer them up and/or break down the trauma-calloused exterior.

All of these are attention-getting devices, easily allowing the character to become the focal point of whatever story's going on around them at the time. For example, if someone's mortally wounded, type 2 will frequently dissolve into hysterical sobbing, drawing attention off of the other person and onto themselves.

This is coming off as deeply cynical, and I apologize. I think you can play any one of these broad types with richness and depth, I just think that the prevelance of the gloomy/tragic types is because of a widespread desire to have other people go, "wow, dig that person." A hero that's well-balanced, easy-going, and friendly just doesn't garner as much fixation as someone who's constantly threatening and/or in need of comforting.

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I don't see the need. If people want to PL on the streets, let them. They miss a great deal of the content of the game. And dying at levels 6th to 10th is no big deal, a single mission will wipe out the debt. So why make the change?

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Overall, I think it's a matter of trying to give an incentive to behavior that you want to encourage, and you want to encourage it because you expect it'll be fun. While MMOG gameplay will get repetitive after a while no matter what you do, I think streetsweeping gets more repetitive than missions, hence people get bored more rapidly while streetsweeping.

However, if streetsweeping is the best way to earn XP and influence, then people will tend to do that because that's what the game's rewarding them to do. (It's one way to look at XP Leeching -- powerlevelling to some. The game is rewarding you well to stand there and do nothing, so people will do that.) By lowering mission debt that makes taking on mission challenges more attractive so people will be more inclined to do missions.

I'm less certain about reason for extending debt immunity to level 10. At a guess I think it has to do with increasing the early game replayability, in that people can speed through those levels more quickly now. This helps those who dread going through those levels with their alts Yet Again Oh No. It means you'll get to level 14 a little quicker as well, and I think the magic 14's a goal people tend to speed towards.

It also may have to do with retaining new players who are used to WoW's speedier levelling. Regardless of the merits of trying to compare the two games, a frequent complaint here is that "I level too slow compared to WoW." This change may help lure people in... only to crush them later with debt in a sadistic fashion. (<--- sarcasm)

I agree with you that debt overall is trivial, but it clearly has an emotional effect on a lot of people. I don't get it (much as I don't get how "levelling faster" is somehow "better"), but it seems a pretty common complaint.

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coulda just said "sue" since it's the same sound as what you described

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Nope. Check out tsunami's pronounciation at dictionary.com, then check out the one for sue.

When you make an English 'ess' (S) sound, the tip of your tongue isn't touching anything. Air passes between your tongue and the roof of your mouth. When you make the 'ts' sound in tsunami or Tsoo, you start with the tip of your tongue on the roof of your mouth, just a little bit behind your front teeth... as if you were about to say 'teeth'. Then you start making the 'ess' sound, opening up a small space so the 't' sound's there, but only for a moment.

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This is presuming that the 'ts' transcription represents the same sound in both cases, not necessarily a safe assumption.

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It isn't, since tsingtao is from Chinese, and tsunami is from Japanese, with different pronounciations, that happen to be both romanized into 'ts'. Good call.

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Oh, right. I am master of the vagueness. Let me clarify: I suspect that the Tsoo are of Chinese origin, and therefore would be pronounced "Chew" presuming that the 'ts' in 'Tsoo' is pronounced the same way as the 'ts' in 'Tsingtao'. I don't know if that's the case; maybe the subsequent 'oo' sound changes the pronounciation from 'ch' to 'ts' (or 'b': "I am a Boo Sorcerer!")

EDIT: All of the above is pwned by MattMan. Bah. It also presumed that the 'oo' Romanization actually represented the English 'oo' sound, another unsafe presumption. Double bah.

And for a completely different opinion...

I pronounce it... well, tsoo, rather like the 'tsu' sound for tsunami. EDIT: Like Upsen already explained and I just blanked on for some strange reason... yeah. More coffee for the SokMunki.

However, I think it's supposed to be close on to 'chew', as I've heard that the Chinese beer Tsingtao is pronounced (according to their website, unlinkable due to age restrictions) 'ching-dow'.

This is presuming that the 'ts' transcription represents the same sound in both cases, not necessarily a safe assumption.

More commonly I call them "those [bleeping] [ohhowIhateem]."

Kheldian: KELL-dee-uhn.

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Sok, one thing to remember... statistics are EXTREMELY Subjective. Its very easy to interperate them one way or another.

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I definitely get that. I also know that I couldn't powerlevel my wife's toon like I did if this change goes into play (at least without making it more trouble than it would have been worth), so it definitely would affect that particular type of PLing. How many people engage in that vs. herding or the various other methods? Is it enough to affect the game?

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Remember the Boss XP/HP change? They thought that was a good idea too until it went live and no one could do squat at the higher levels in certain missions and the TV Trial...

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Yep. They were addressing a definite issue -- the game gets too easy overall at higher levels -- with a fix. It turns out that fix caused more problems than it solved.

That's where I'm coming from: I can't say that this will have a widespread impact on XP Leeching or not. I think there's been lots of good reasons mentioned why this fix may cause more problems for people just playing the game... and quite possibly more problems than it's worth.

I think that arguments that "this won't affect powerlevelling" have no basis, since we don't know how many people are doing this particular type of powerlevelling. Arguments that "this won't stop powerlevelling" are true, but pointless -- this fix isn't intended to stop all forms of powerlevelling, just help prevent "stand in the store and leech" type.

Arguments that "this is going to damage team play a lot" are perfectly valid, IMO, and that's what people against this change need to show. How will this hurt your team play?

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I'm of the opinion that the whole effort in putting for th the measure is a waste of time in the first place. Be as stringent as you like, it's not going to stop Powerlevelers- a group of people who are:

A) A minority, and

B) Do not affect the game for the rest of us in any quanitifiable way.

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I'm normally on your side, Skunk, but I need to say: none of us have the results of the developers queries and reports. We cannot datamine on levelling rates and teaming. Our only evidence is anecdotal -- we really can't quantify anything.

We can probably note trends -- I think it's safe to say that, oh, "more people interested in rapid powerlevelling are involved in instanced missions for herding" -- but we have no idea what percentage of people are doing parked-powerlevelling or how much they're blowing the progression curve.

I'm skeptical about the good this change will do, certainly. It's also quite possible that their queries aren't showing specific situations and are thus misleading. Without looking at them, though, I don't think we can make a call either way.

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If a player is in a zone, did NO damage in a combat and has dead for more than a minute, he receives no XP. If a player is more than 300 ft. away (an increase of 100 ft.) from the mob when it’s defeated and did NO damage, he receives no XP. Otherwise, the player receives his full share of XP.

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Still confused about one point: if (for example) you've got a three person team, each person on the team is 400' away from each other person, and person X defeats a bad guy -- does person X get "solo XP" or XP for being on a 3 person team?

EDIT: Found the answer to this. Thanks, Statesman!

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Oh no! An Edwardsian in our midst!

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I would cackle and rub my hands together, nodding with glee... if I had any idea what that meant prior to my Googling. I was just familiar with this game and the "one stat" idea.

I need to read 20' by 20' room more, I suppose.

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Heck it gets a bit to bogged down for me, but it's just so darn flexible. In my opinion any system that wants to do Superhero must have that flexibility (if not the large amount of mathmatical formula and charts.)

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This right here illustrates my biggest gripe with PnP RPG players - that they require a "flexible" system. What the hell? Every RPG system is 100% flexible! When did "if its not in the rules it can't be done" become the PnP way? I've encountered the over and over with RPG players for some time now and it boggles me.

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I don't think the issue is "if it's not in the rules it can't be done." That's never been my experience. I think the issue is "how far do I have to go outside these rules and/or make up my own stuff in order to accommodate this idea?"

With superpowered games, for example, the issue tends to be scalability. How well does the game system handle people trying to pick up minivans? In my experience certain ones do this quite well, such as the HERO system, and others not so well, like the MasterBook system. D&D, last I checked, didn't handle the idea of spontaneous magic nearly as well as White Wolf's Mage. etc.

You can always work around, improvise, etc., etc., but the less the system requires this the better.

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You need something or don't like something that the rules have/don't have. MAKE IT THE FUNK UP! The more simple the system the better really. I think RPG players have gotten bound up in numbers, charts and rules and forget what the they are actually playing.

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I like systems, personally, for a variety of reasons that I won't bore anyone with. If you're really into the whole idea of "simpler is better" I suggest checking out Trollbabe.

For a bit more game system but a decidedly strange RPG experience, I also suggest Puppetland.

EDIT: After reacquainting myself with Trollbabe I realize I've got it backwards; Puppetland's definitely the least system-heavy of the two.

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I guess it has been longer than I thought since the last time I played Champions. I don't remember it being complicated, or requiring a calculator. I remember "acquiring a taste for it" in just a few minutes. I guess I was just sick of AD&D type games that were about two steps short of rolling a die and saying "I win".

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Heh. I really enjoy(ed) the HERO system, but I'll agree; calculators were a must for my group.

"Hokay, that's a 6d6 Ego Attack, so 60 points, and it's a Cone Effect with double the length -- +1 1/4 Advantage -- and you want it to do Knockback, so there's another +1/4, plus 0 Endurance cost... getting pricey here... for +1/2. So, +2 in Advantages. Now we've got Activation roll of 14 or less with Burnout, so that's -1/4, and Concentration for half your DCV so another -1/4 and -- huh? This is in your Multipower reserve? Pass the Maker's Mark, 'kay?"

That, and the movement/SPD business led to some screwy situations, but I still think it's a great game.

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Get your dice out, folks...

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The geek, it rises, uncoiling from it's slumbering grip on the base of my brain stem... hungering...

Unisystem, hm? Same one they use in the Buffy game and the Witchcraft game, I think. VERY simple system, great for quick-and-dirty roleplaying. I'm curious how they'll translate that to the variety of powers used for superheroes. Buffy's magic system was incredibly vague and open-ended... which works really well with the Buffyverse. Sounds from the press release that they might just translate the powers over, probably with a "build yer own!" system.

Anyhow, coolness.

I've said it a dozen times in the past -- but I'll keep saying it as long as it crops up.

Striga is a fantastic zone in toto. As someone who primarily plays solo, I find the zone tremendous fun.

Despite my solo-inclinations, I do like to do TFs, and I joined the Ernesto Hess TF as soon as I could. With a pickup team, even. I loved every moment of it (and it's a brief TF, comparitively speaking). My mantra is "allow me to solo without boredom; make me want to team," and this TF is a prime example. You'll probably have a fantastic time in the game if you never do it, but you'll miss a fantastic experience if you never do it.

Seriously. Three words. Giant. Freaking. Robots.

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Honestly, I think the devs here are a bit too permissive. The Winter Lord event was a good example. When they realized that you could get a level 1 character to 20 inside of a few hours, they should have taken the servers down and fixed that immediately. Exploit patching is just a bit too slow for my book.

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Just a quick quibble: I wouldn't call the Winter Lord business an "exploit," in that I don't think the players were trying to make an end-run around the game design. I think the Winter Lord XP reward might've been a design mistake, but I didn't see the hunters as exploiting.

Semantic nit-pick, I know....

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We really need more Kitten based evil in the game.

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I'll donate -- I really need less of it in real life.

"No, the litterbox is still no longer there..."

I want vehicles and less debt and what's with the Paladin and a pony.

Hope all's well with you, and welcome back!

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What are your feelings of individuals gender bending (for those who do not know the term: playing a member of the opposite sex)?

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I think it's perfectly acceptable. If done maturely, I think it can be an excellent RP experiment, just like playing someone from a different culture than your own.

The_Cheetah's post is a great dissection of the issues.

I'm very pleased with this announcement, and moreover I'm pleased with this amount of communication with us forum-ites. My hat's off to you.

Lots of things spring to mind:

Said it before here, but it bears repeating -- I am loving me the Striga Isle. Heeeere, puppy puppy puppy... please don't belch in my face...

Snowballs and snow monsters. We took on a Cranky Frosty today with a group of about 10 or so and had a snowball fight afterwards. (Dumb me opened my present too soon. I can never wait.)

Now that I have free respecs I've got to figure out what to do with them. Dangit.

Eyebeams! I can have eyebeams! Wonderful, goofy eyebeams!

I really like the temp powers. My scrapper enjoys his Striga Shotgun. "I wanna show you a trick mother showed me when you weren't around, to use on special occasions like this." *BLAM* (My favorite by far is still the Freakshow, ahm, 'disguise'.)

Dark Astoria: Creepy fog, shuffling undead, and plenty of windows for my teleporter to plaster himself against.

(Oh yeah: Kudos to Stateman because he didn't @nuke me after I sent him my foot-stamping, petty post-Issue-2 Private Message. Sorry about that one.)