Socorro
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Posts
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Quote:I have a few toons without inate KB protection, and I also I have a lvl 50 Tanker, a lvl 50 Brute, and a lvl 50 Scrapper....and I still say HELL YES! to global KB for everyone, friends and foes. Yeah, we'd spend more time on our backsides, but so would the enemies. It'd be a lot more dynamic, and IMO a lot more fun...Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
After having played a number of melee archetypes, this repeated call to 'nerf Melee KB res' will always get a resounding
HELL NO!
from me. Simply because it is so NOT fun to have to deal with never being able to lay a punch/kick/cut because you spend so much time on your backside.
Try doing Mako's arc, where you end up in the Leviathan caverns filled, and I mean FILLED with tornadoes. Right? Now try that on a Crab Spider with no -KB slotted.
I think I broke the expletive barrier for the week in that play session.
But don't you worry none, now - most seem to have your view, meaning we'll end up keeping our little Clumps of Herded Cows for the Slaughtering
*Now I want to go to a Chick-Fil-A's...
*
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Quote:So much THIS! We're all frickin' Superheroes(Villains)! Flying bodies goes with the genre. I agree that all hits that do a certain amount of damage should cause some KB. I also think that the ability of Players ATs to avoid KB from foes should be nerfed. Every Melee Toon in the game is Juggernaut (unmoveable). Boring... Supes, Hulk, Thor... These guys slam their foes into building and mountains (and get slammed back quite often as well).Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Frankly, if it was up to me, I would sooner eliminate all *non-KB* options than all the KB powers. In fact, knowing what I know now, in retrospect I would make all AoE damage deal knockback, and all powers above a certain DPA threshold deal mandatory knockback. That would be a deliberate shot across the bow of the efficiency police, and it would simultaneously resolve the problem with AoE balance in this game.
Put some dynamic action in the game. I played in a PuG recently. Almost didn't get invited because I was playing a PB. "Can you control your KB??" was the question before invite. In the missions. team leader: "Herding to here!" *resists urge to barf.
I think it'd be a lot of fun!! I suppose, to throw a banana to those who'd hate the loss the seeming loss of efficiency, all KB'd foes should receive a bit of extra damage. -
Quote:The PB Build I'm discussing is Human-OnlyOriginally Posted by Reiraku
Actually, your PB shouldn't be too hard to survive on. First off, don't worry about BF's now. They're largely useless. Depending on what form you're in, greens and oranges will better suit you. Aside from that, practice.
And before any self-gimp comments, at level 50 my Human Only is more potent than Tri-Form in the PvE environment, esp. when soloing. My Alt-Build is Tri-Form and I've compared numerous times vs. the maps/missions.
Of course, I could use Tri-From when PvPing (and have, with some success), but we're back to square one again. My Tri-Form really is just a 'let's-see-what-this-can-do' thing. My concept is Human Only. Her story is human only. And in PvE she's very powerful, but in PvP she struggles. With the shields and heals, she can survive surprizing long in PvP, but it's that phasing and bouncing around the enemy does that does her in. Just when I'm about to be victorious.. Phase Shift, Bound Away... Tactics that work in PvP, but again, so different from the PvE game, it really would take a second build, with these tactics in mind, to successfully PvP...
And it's just not really worth it -
Quote:Yeah, considered that, but having to make another build specifically for PvP (with powers I'd probably never pick otherwise) kinda proves my 1st point. And it'd do nothing for my 2nd - the PvP game is simply very different than the PvE game.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If you use your second build, you might only need to swap out a couple of powers to make yourself more PvP suitable.
What I'd like: have the same toon, same build, go into a PvP area and have it feel roughly the same as if I was involved in an PvE fight with an EB. Perhaps a bit more moving around but not this bunny hopping (course, I wouldn't mind EBs AI being a bit more robust) but more like mighty warriors clashing. I dunno, movement and phasing has too much effect in PvP, but I don't know how to lessen it.
I don't have any answers, but I know what I do and don't like *shrug* -
I'd love to PvP in this game, but generally don't for many of the same reasons others have:
1) I don't want to change my powers just so I can be good at PvP. I have a Purple Out Peacebringer with all available Accolades, and I'm a terror in PvE. Seems like I'd at least do decent in PvP, but I don't have SS, SJ, or a Phase Power, so... I can't catch most foes, and then I usually get held and wittled down when I run out of BFs. lrn2PvP, then? That brings up my second point
2) I dunno, I just generally don't like that the PvP game feels so radically different than the PvE game. PvE=massive mobs, massive destruction, feelings of power. PvP=so much bouncing and darting around, retreating. Nothing wrong with that, I guess... but I'd prefer that fighting another Player feel like fighting an EB, not being spiked and faceplanted in less than 15 seconds. I know, some comic book characters fight that way (Spider Man), but in CoH PvP it seems that just about all do. Thors vs Hulks, Supes vs. Doomsdays - these seem rare.
No point in trying to tell me where I'm wrong. I've given it lots of tries and these are the impressions I've come away with. I probably will try again at some point. Maybe it'll be different next time... (heh yeah right )
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Awesome! Even though I'm not a heavy RPer, I am an 'Immerser' and things like this just add all kinds of cool flavor. Couple questions: (sorry if they've already been answered somewhere)
1) I understand that it's a toggle, and while on, you can't jump or attack. Is that literally true? Seems to me that it'd be better if performing an attack or jump automatically turned your 'walk' toggle off, like Super-Jump turns Combat Jump off, etc... In that vein, actually getting attacked by a foe should turn it off too. Like you're instantly ready for combat once you're attacked...
I just know if none of this is the case, I'm gonna get attacked with the toggle on, try to fight back, and take a hit or two as I scramble to turn my walk toggle off haha. Even so, I like it.
2) Related: No attacks or jumping, but what about other Toggled (primarily defensive) powers. Does walking mean you're always at your most defenseless? I suppose that makes sense, sorta... If you're actually pumped and ready for combat, you really don't strut and stroll around (unless you're Clint Eastwood, of course)
3) When do we anticipate this going live? Next Issue? Or just sorta dropped in at some point? -
Quote:I hear you. I have a lvl 50 MA Scrapper, and I know what sort of damage they can dish out. The typical Scrapper does handily outdo the typical PB, esp. against Bosses/EBs/AVs, so your response wasn't out of line. My PB, of course, isn't typical, and I feel even to or superior when I compare to other Toons. However, put me in the same room as a Purpled-Out Scrapper and you'd no doubt be right again...Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Fair enough. The first thing that pops into my mind when I hear "I was doing the same damage as the scrapper" is "he was ignoring crits again" or "selective memory is awesome!"
I'm coming down from a bad case of "I can't stand it when people ignore facts when making a case for X" and that one line jumped out at me.
Everything you stated about folks getting overly uptight about knockback is as true now as it's always been. And there's nothing worse than a bad team leader hamstringing a player's effectiveness. -
Well, I've read your posts in the past, Billz, and I'm not about to get into a big numbers duel with you, but please note that I'm not comparing the average Scrapper vs. the average PB. I am comparing my PB's numbers vs. this one Scrapper's in a series of missions.
I don't know what the Scrappers IOs were, if any, but low end you're giving him around 141 DPS, and you give a PB about 128 DPS. We're close already...
Now, my PB: I've never calculated my DPS, but my PB is Purpled Out: 6-slotted Hecatombs, Apocalyspes, and all those other biblical-sounding thingies in all my major attacks. My Hasten isn't perma but its downtime is so little that I have it set to Auto. Feels like it's pretty much all the time. My 'buffer teammate were nearby pretty much constantly. We weren't fighting one AV after another where an unbroken attack chain would really matter, simply moving from one typical mob to the next.
Forget your average scrapper and PB. This was his Scrapper and my PB, and I'm not blind. I can see the numbers and I know that when they're in the hundreds, a couple dozen points difference between the two is chump change. So small it doesn't matter; same playing field, same ball park, no Hyperbole needed.
And if I'd let loose with my AoEs, my same-level damage would've been hitting 3-times more enemies that him. But...he was a high-strung anal-retentive sort of fellow, and the star, so I let him have his show. -
Quote:With the team mix, my damage bonus was an extra +80% (+106% total, counting my own bonuses). I was noting my Orange Numbers vs. His. My Inc. Strike vs. his Eagle's Claw, my Rad. Strike vs. his Crane Kick. The modifiers are not hard to find (Red Tomax, etc). You sure I'm talking Hyperbole?Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Hyperbole is bad, mmkay? Unless he was spines. Slotted with DOs.
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Of course, nothing is without it's cracks... For PBs, it's Knockback. KB, while useful soloing for the mitigation, is severely unwelcome on Teams; quite an odd feature, really, for an AT that's billed as a 'Team AT'. Whatever... and don't tell me about knocking into walls, etc. "Learn to control your KB!". I do that well, but that's not the point. Don't you realize that by maneuvering around to position for Wall KB, you're effectively turning your KB into Knockdown. Again, by doing so, you're showing that you really want Knockdown, else you wouldn't be doing all that positioning to make you KB..well, not KB. Let's at least be honest about it.
But we're stuck with it, and the following is what we deal with...
Guy requesting xtras for PI Scanner mishes last night, I had an hour to kill, so why not... Sent him a Tell: "Human PB interested if you are..."
Guy: "Eeeeee...can you control your KB?"
Me: "Heh, yeah"
So he sends me an invite
Got a full team, so I'm looking forward to being at full power, although I've made a note to be extra careful with KB since the Star is already leery.
Enter mission. First several fights I pretty much use only Proton Scatter for AoE since it doesn't cause KB, concentrating on Single Target attacks for the most part, but I sure am missing Solar Flare's large AoE damage. Yeah, I know I know... position so that we KB against walls, but I didn't feel like catering to anybody at the moment. Sue me. Teams doing okay anyway, and I'm contributing as much ST damage as the Scrapper is...so no biggie. Several Mobs, several fights and I've not caused any KB issues yet. Then we get to a new mob and I accidently click Luminous Detonation instead of Proton Scatter and I send about half the mobs flying...
Guy (in teamspeak): "SS, what did I ask you before Invited you?"
Me: "I just hit the wrong attack. I've been doing quite well not causing anybody KB headaches so far."
Guy: "KB causes my AT all kinds of problems. (blah blah...procedes with rant to never do it again or else..."
Me: "It was one mistake. If I accidently cause a little bit of Scattering just once every 10 mobs or so, can't you be a little tolerant?"
Little more jawing back and forth, but I stay on the team and proceed to do several more missions with them without causing KB issues, and the Guy eventually accepts that I really do know what I'm doing. I start positioning more and throwing out Solars Flares here and there, so it's alright, but I sure wish I could cut loose more on large teams...
Incidently, the Guy was playing a Scapper that was a Tanker wannabe. Over and over, he'd go to corner, the hit some bind key "Pulling to Here!!!", then he'd gather mobs and pull them to the spot for us to attack. Double weird cuz we had an actualy Tanker on the team...*Shrug*
Yeah, perhaps he was bit odd, but I was just throwing that in there for grins. I've had many other players make little comments about KB (some humorous, some snarky), and sometimes it just hits me wrong. I really don't like having features on my 'Team AT' that makes teammates irate on any level. Sure wish there was a KB magnitude setting or toggle. Oh well, it's an old yarn... -
Quote:Well, theme is my prime reason for being human only actually. That it's also pretty capable is gravyOriginally Posted by Seldom
I'm pretty sure I'm not alone when I say the whole reason for my human-only PB is thematic.
No other character type in the game exemplifies so well the idea of using light. Light armor, light ray blast, light melee attacks, it's all there. And as a customization nut, having a standard NPC for a form isn't a big draw.
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Quote:I won't say a PB is more powerful than a Scrapper at High Levels. I just contend that the phrase "A Human Form PB soloing is going to have a pretty hard time of it" really doesn't apply at High Levels. Scrappers clearly are very powerful. There's a reason we see all those AV-Soloing thread on the Scrapper Forums. No PB will ever match a Scrapper's DPS (esp. single target) when soloing. We're not slouches though, especially with AoE.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Yes, but are you more powerful than a Scrapper at the same level? (And slotted out with the same capacity IOs, if you have done that?) Not that I have a high level Kheldian, so I wouldn't know, but all ATs get remarkably easier to solo after 40.
The Kheldian may even be able to do as much damage as the Scrapper, but the Scrapper is also getting Epic Powers that enable him to attack at range and control his foes. The Scrapper may no longer be "better" than the Kheldian, but the AT's all seem to pretty much equalize and become more flexible at 50.
When considering AoE, though, I do wonder if PBs might pull a bit ahead if we're facing large amounts of Lt. and Minion level foes. A Scrapper can have some AoE capability, but my Human PB has 4 AoEs readily available, 2 of them ranged (would have 5, but I specced out of Dawn Strike - didn't like the End. Crash). When fighting large mobs, I can have a decent attack chain that consist only of AoEs. And with my Shields and Heals, I'm pretty safe doing it.
I'm not saying other ATs won't have it easy, or easier. Just that it can be pretty easy for my PB too... -
Quote:Again, at Low Levels that may be true, but not necessarily at High Levels. I've soloed Crimson's Malta Arc (with all it's mezzers and sappers) on my Human PB and it was a good challenge. At lvl 50 I can cruise thru lesser foes, even solo.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
...A Human Form PB soloing is going to have a pretty hard time of it...
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I have a lvl 50 Brute, a lvl 50 Scrapper, and a lvl 50 Human Only PB. My PB is my fave, so I guess I qualify to answer you. Right now I'm running as +4, lvl +0 w. Bosses. Ran for a while at +8/+0, and while I was able to complete missions with those settings, +4 more fits my leisurely style. Regardless, my PB feels more potent than the other two in many of the same situations.
Let me just describe a typical mob encounter. I come across a large Mob. Typical opening Salvo is Buildup, Proton Scatter, Luminous Detonation, then Close in for a Solar Flare. Yes, Proton Scatter and Lum. Detonation don't do great damage, but they're AoE and can hits lots of enemies. The above 4-click exchange will often kill all minions that get hit by all three attacks.
So now I'm in the middle of the mob dealing with the leftovers. If there are many left over I'll often keep spamming the AoEs. I can take out lots of mobs this way. My PB is actually a great farming toon if that's what I wanted to do. Should my Photon Seekers be up, I'll let it go in the middle of a mob. That mini-Nuke will kill 2/3s of most mobs easily.
Should there be a boss in the mob, I'll concentrate on it with Inc. and Rad. Strike, Luminous Blasts and Solar Flare. I'm hitting it hard, and the Solar Flare is killing the surrounding minions (or KBing the tougher ones back) until I'm finished.
The whole time I'm just running around, staying roughly near the middle of the mob trying to find the best AoE positioning. My shields, heals and KB do a good job of keeping me safe (plus the occasional orange or purple if it's a bit too rough). For Mezzes, BFs are cheap to come by at higher levels. With the 3/1 Trade, I'm almost never without one, so while direct Mez protection would be nice for a Human Only, it's not a deathknell like many make it out to be. In the time it takes one BF to expire, I often kill the entire mob.
Using the above tactics, I can take out non-mezzing, non-psi mobs faster, safer, and more efficiently than my Scrapper or Brute can do. Really. Not joking. I've tried them all against the same foes for the express purpose of this comparison, and it's simply true. Why? Well, as the OP says, a PB's resistances are already compareable, but damage is much lower. That's true, but there's also much more AoE and Ranged damage, and the Damage from Inc. and Rad. Strike is nothing to sneeze at. So, less single target damage, but more damage overall because it's being delivered to lots of foes at once. And the whole time I have my pretty good defenses up. It works quite well. And should my Shields fail me a bit, I have *two* good heals. Pretty secure.
For Mezzing Bosses, there's Light Form. It last 3 minutes. If you can't take down a mezzing boss in that amount of time, you need to hang up your spurs. Indeed, while my single target damage doesn't match a scrapper or brute, it can be pretty good. I'll often take on a mezzing boss without using Light Form, instead using a single BF. Very often, they're dead before expires. I've taken down many Mezzing EBs as well.
The only foes where my Scrapper/Brute seems to do noticeably better is with Psi-damage foes, but even then my PB does alright. I've cleared the PI safeguard, incl all side-mishes, with all those psi-chunking Dark Ring Mistresess, several times.
I have a Tri-form build as my Alt, but my Human Form just feels more potent than it does. Nova does better AoE, but still falls short overall. Here's a comparison: I've attacked Roman Mobs on the Wall in Human Form, using nothing but Ranged Attacks. I just hovered above them, killing them all in a few volleys. Didn't even try to defend. Their ranged attacks can't dent my shields enough to worry about it. On my Nova, I can do a bit more damage, but I have to run away, shift and heal alot. It's never a sure thing. In Dwarf Form, yeah, I'm tougher, but God does it take forever to kill something. Human Only is tough enough, and you only have to be 'tough enough', and it kills alot faster. Again, it's pretty clear to me when one seems the most strongest in action.
Now, all of the above is primarily soloing. On teams, it just goes up. My damage is stronger, my shields are stronger. I've stood toe-to-toe with many AVs and GMs.
Finally, I'm describing play at very high levels. At lower levels, esp. pre-Light Form, I won't argue much that Scrappers and Tri-Forms might be better. But I played Human Only from level 1, and I've felt pretty strong the whole ride. At level 50, on teams, I really do feel like I'm the strongest Overall Toon on just about every team I'm on, and I'm not to shabby soloing either (which I do ALOT).
So, don't know if this will sell you on the Human PB. I'm just describing my experiences. I don't think PBs are the perfect (I've voiced some changes I think would make the AT better) but they can be very strong. Certainly are for me... -
Quote:Well, now I want the Martial Arts new Eagle's Claw animation for Inc. StrikeOriginally Posted by Novella
That would look completely stupid in my opinion.
The animations fit perfectly, the only one I would like changed is Radiant Strike needs to have Havoc Punches animation instead of jab.
Knockout Blow may look kinda popeye weird, but the current animation (Jumping 3 feet up in the air, exposing your gut for a good couple seconds, then slamming down with with both fist) is 'perfect' you say?... MmmmKay... Well, we all have our ideas on what looks stupid, I suppose
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Well, things don't die just because you won't them too
I'm not expecting you to respond LX, as you're clearly tired of this thread, so if you don't, no worries. But I think you're missing the point when you want to 'agree to disagree'. This thread will die it's own natural death, but as you and I both know, another thread similiar to it will crop up about Khelds soon enough, and that because many still aren't very satisfied with the AT.
So, you may allow this thread to die after I say one more piece:
Looking at your list, LX, you place some heavy emphasis on Dev intentions and actions, as if that ends the argument, but it's that exact point that works against you. The Devs have made Many Changes (Some pretty hefty) to Khelds over the years, and every single one of them has been an Increase in Performance related numbers - no nerfs that I can think of.
Know what that means? That means the Devs have agreed with players at different times that Khelds have Underperformed. Who cares what the original intent was? The Original AT had Negative Resistance, 40ft Ranged attacks with .65 Scalars, and could get One-Shotted by a Quantum Hellion. Thank God we haven't stuck to the original vision
Again, modified not just once, but many times. Again, why is that? Why wasn't the first set of changes enough? Why not the second? Why must we assume the last set of changes are good enough when we've already seen so many? Why accept that latest model is the 'final version', especially if we're not totally satisfied with it? The Devs have shown already that they listen and are willing to make changes, despite any original Intentions and Design Vision.
I'm not gonna agree to disagree with anybody if I'm not personally satisfied with a product. Now, I know that the Devs many never make any more changes, but pretty much anytime a thread like this comes up, I'm gonna voice the areas where I'm not happy with the Kheld AT (the Shapeshifting mechanic, a lessening on emphasis of being a Team AT, and lately, that PBs fall so shorts of WSs at High Levels) in hopes that they do. Happily agreeing to disagree doesn't really help my case...
Again, I love my PB overall, and I have fun with her. But I do sometimes feel not as effective and/or desired as a teammate than I do when playing other ATs. Doesn't matter how other's feel - that's how I feel. Continuing the car analogy: my AT doesn't drive quite as smoothly as others, I want it to, and I want the designers to know that. -
Quote:Originally Posted by demonic_raven
Well.. just back from Hero-Con. I asked this question after one of the panels. What we were told is, at this time it would be very difficult to accomplish. Costumizing Nova and Dwarf forms are on the same lines as costumizing MM pets. They are working on getting pool/epic/patron powers done first. There has also been lots of debate in office about should a khelds colors actually change because it is the nature of a Kheldian. Sooo, the final answer was not anytime soon, but it is on list to look at.
Not what I wanted to hear, but not totally unexpected either.
2 Things:
1) As to the 'Nature of Khelds', I merely want to remind the Devs that Color <> Nature. Ex: it is not the nature of humans to be a specific color. If it's a lot of work and other things take priority that's one thing - but please don't use 'Kheldian Nature' as the reason for not doing it.
2) I wants change meh Khield Powerz colorss now, dangt!!!
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Quote:Well, threads die, as all things do, but this topic is of the nature that everybody can't really "agree to disagree". See, it's not something like, "I like U2" vs. "I don't like U2 - Lets agree to disagree." In that scenario, it boils down to only a matter of taste, and we can agree that we simply have different tastes.Originally Posted by LordXenite
At last, this thread can die with the decisive conclusion that we all agree to disagree.
However, when getting a service or product, some are happy with it and others are not. The ones that aren't happy with it want want a better service/product, and we can't rightly ask, "Hey, can't we just agree to disagree?"
Say, we have the same model of car. I'm happy with the gas mileage. You are not. You are within every right to demand better mileage. I can think you have unreasonable expectations. I can tell you if you don't like it to get another car. But I can't tell you to just agree to disagree with me and call it a day.
I think the analogy should be clear - of course, you're free to disagree
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Quote:Fine, but as has been put forth, 'Fun' is not something that should be brought to the table with comparing things in this game, such as ATs, Builds, Sets, etc. My 10-year plays CoH every once in a while, and he has 'fun' with his characters. His toons, in all their badly-slotted-wrong-powers-picked glory, are extremely fun for him, but that doesn't mean they should be compared to other ATs/Builds on any objective quantifiable basis.Originally Posted by Clouded
Deciding factor for whom? That's not my deciding factor.
I'm not concerned about DPS and the amount of orange numbers I produce. I'm after fun and concept most times I play unless I'm for a set purpose, like MoSTF, etc (and in those instances I use my mains).
I would wager far more people play this game for fun, escape and concept over their DPS. PBs and WS are very capable of filling multiple roles on teams, something most other ATs are incapable of along with providing some great fun in powers and graphics.
Concerning DPS. In this game, all goals and objectives come down to DPS, in the sense that, without Damage, your not going to complete any mission at all. Now, DPS need not be straightfoward. Debuffing opponent's defenses, buffing teammate's damage, buffing your (and teammates) Defenses so your DPS is greater relative to the opponents you're fighting, Tanking so that teammates can stay alive long enough so that their DPS will defeat the foe, Locking Foes down while other's damage them... Everything we do must somehow contribute to this complex DPS equation or else we're not effective.
You cannot beat a mission simply by 'holding' everything, or just by being so tough nothing can hurt you. Unless you can damage the opponents to some degree (or help do so) you're ineffective.
Back to Khelds: remembering that all ATs must contribute to damage either directly or indirectly, if Khelds are not straight DPS, then they must of contribute in other ways that rasies a team's effective DPS. The question is, do they do that in a comparable way to other ATs? As noted elsewhere, any particular area where a Kheld can contribute to damage generation, another AT can do better. That means we have to consider their effectiveness as generalists.
So, does a Kheld's overall 'generalist' contribution compare to a team's damage generating effectiveness on a level approaching the more Niche ATs? I don't really know, although I tend to think Khelds fall a bit short. If it's really true, that they do not, then we might as well be honest about it; Khelds need some more work done to them. -
Quote:Not sure why the Kheldian only get's its 'half-boost' when in Human Form. That's how it used to be. Nah, any boost at all applies to all Forms. Also, why halve the values. A PB giving a Scrapper an extra 10% resistance isn't that much, but enough to perhaps have scrappers enjoy them being on the team. Halving that to 5% doesn't seem enough... Of course, it's better than what the Scrappers gets now (ie, Nothing, Zilch, Nada...)Originally Posted by Redlynne
Here's how Castle could recode the Kheldian inherent power to be more team friendly:
Take the current effects and ... chop them in half ... and then apply them twice.
Half of the effect is a large radius PBAoE team effect. This boosts the Kheldian plus all of your teammates within range. If a teammate is within your PBAoE radius, they "fuel" the buff for you and you in turn give back to them. This half of the effect is ALWAYS ON ... even when in Nova and Dwarf forms.
The other half of the effect is self only. This half of the effect is only on when you're in human form. Since the only one who "loses" the effect when you're out of human form is yourself, there is no whining from teammates to "get back in human form so I can get your buffs!" dynamic constricting how Kheldian characters are played.
Power levels remain exactly where they already are ... but half the benefit we currently get remains available in forms *and* is shared with the team.
S imple
E asy
E ffective
Not being done ...
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Thematically, I like Resistance better (a sort of sturdy toughness instead of attacks just missing you altogether), but Defense seems to be better supported and more effective in the game (plus you can slot LotG +Rchgs in Defense ) Resistances should be beefed up a bit, IMHO
However, fx-wise, I also think Bubbles are more appropriate looking for Defense than Resistance, so I wish the Kheld Shields were not Bubbles and instead just Auras. Heck, call them Auras (Thermal Aura, Quantum Aura...)
And once again, I'm in complete agreement about the Kheld inherent boosting team stats... -
Quote:Understandable. To add fuel to that, I'd personally welcome massive overhauls to the Shapeshifting mechanics. I don't like them, and don't routinely play Tri-forms as a result. However, I'm aware that many really like the current shapeshifting, and I'm willing to let them keep what they like...as long as Human Only remains viableOriginally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I think there are some people who want tweaks to Kheldians, and nobody is worried about that, and some people who want massive overhauls. Those wanting the wholesale changes have got some of us very defensive about anything negative, which I think is the reason some people are wary of anyone who wants any change. Other areas that I want changed really mostly involve some shifting of Numbers, without really changing the way the base AT plays.
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Quote:Just because someone would welcome a change or two doesn't meant they find the whole unappealing. My Main is a PB, now Purpled and Accoladed out, so I find her quite appealing.Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
The teams I join already enjoy having Kheldians on the team and soloing is already trivialy easy even on higher settings and set for 4+ players (or +2 set to 2 for my SO only build).
My only objection to this line of thinking is it proceeds from a point of view that Kheldians need to be fixed. PB's could use a small boost (very very small) but Kheldians are in no way broken or in need of fixing.
If the Kheldian AT's do not appeal to you the simple solution is don't play them, not redesign the AT so it fits your playstyle preferance. I know this because it's exactly what I do with the VEAT AT's.
There are things that could be done to make the AT better though. *Lots* of People have complained about certain Kheld Characteristics over the years. So it came to be that some much needed changes were eventually implemented.
And yet, there were a few players who were completely satisfied with Khelds prior to these changes and didn't want them/think them needed. Per your reasoning, Khelds should have been left unchanged because some players were okay with them (even though many were not). I suppose all the others should have just played other ATs eh?
IMO, the changes have been by far to the better, and I happen to think a few more should be implemented. And I'm not gonna just shrug and play a different AT because I think that... *shrug*
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Quote:I'd eat all these suggestion up (in the good way)Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Change: I think Build-Up should be changed to be on a similar timer to Sunless Mire (120sec recharge, 30sec buff).
Reason: Damage is an often complained about fact and this would increase the damage for longer periods (Actually perma-able). It would also be better use for PB's in Nova form. To account for the increased duration I would lower the buffs to match say a 4 target Sunless Mire which accounts for how much easier to use it is and that is it more reliable.
Change: I would add the -def (Or was it -res, whichever it needs to be so they have both) into all the attacks.
Reason: This would increase the teams effectiveness making them more desirable.
Change: I would change the PBAoE KB to KD.
Reason: KB is good control so should be kept in the single target and cone powers, but PBAoE KB is a no-no.
Change: I would make the inherant buff both the Kheld and the team, for a Warshade a tank should give them +resist and the kheld gives them back +dam (etc).
Reason: I don't think this is needed from a balance point of view, but if we are to change the perception of Khelds then this is a must imho. This solution also means the Kheld modifiers don't have to be changed (I can't begin to imagine how powerful a solo Warshade would be with increased modifiers!).
Change: I think Photon Seekers should be on the same timers as Dark Extraction.
Reason: Make them more reliable and bring closer parity.
I think then PB's would probably be a bit closer to Warshades.
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Flipping the Kheld Inherents so that you give an AT the bonus they normally give you (along with a slight increase in damage/resist scalars to compensete what Khelds are losing) would solve *ALL* problems
PB's New Cosmic Balance results:
Scrappers/Blasters: Hey, this PB is giving me 10% resistance to all damage. Cool!
Tanks/'Fenders: That PB will give us a 20% damage boost! Invite them now!
'Trollers: My Holds just went up a Mag. Nice
(note: an AT only gets the bonus it would normally give a Kheld, not the entire bonus a Kheld currently gets)
The question is how much of a Scalar increase should Khelds get to make up for the teaming bonuses they'd be losing. Making Human Damage Scalars 1.0 across the board (middle of the road) and resistance increase of 10%-15% sound fair. The Forms would adjust by the same ratio.
Now here we go. If Controllers no longer grant a Human Kheld Mez Protection, should the Human form get a small boost to compensate? Say Mag 2.0? Oh no... would that tiny increase invalidate Dwarf? haha Seriously, how many of you PB's with Dwarf Form would utterly drop it if Human had 2.0 Mez Protection?
Regardless, this would work. Teams would really enjoy having Khelds join them, I believe, *and* Khelds would certainly have an easier time soloing