Snow Globe

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Teleporter recipes: The Rare salvage requirement on these should be removed in the next patch.

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Why is there a need to craft teleporters at all? There is no PVP aspect related for them.


Now for the Q&A:


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Q. Base salvage, why replace it, and what will happen to it?

A. Base salvage has little value to most players. Since there are a limited number of base items to construct, once those items are built there is little need for any further base salvage.

As a result, base salvage tends to either gather dust on salvage racks, or be a source of confusion with Invention salvage. Base salvage will not be removed though, so anything not converted to Brain Storm tokens will remain in game.

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Because base salvage had little value to most players, it was freely donated. With the change invention salvage, the burden shifts from members of the group to the base builders and the group leaders (sometimes the same person).

I simply reject the idea that base salvage confused anyone. The base builders have been saying this since it was announced.

While base salvage isn't being removed by the game, all the recipes except converting to brainstorms are. Brainstorm conversion takes a predictable element (converting 18 echips = 6 tech power = 1 teleporter) and randomizes the result (18 echips = 18 brainstorms = 18 random pieces of common salvage, OR 6 common inventions pieces of Tech or Arcane, etc...). The point is that you've dramatically increased the price of the teleporters and even getting rid of the rare requirement will keep the price of the teleporters higher than the previous costs.

Some of the other crafted items are likewise affected (mainly the tier 1 non-pvp items), just that teleporters are the most glaring example.

Suggestion for the developers to look at for the future:
Keep brainstorms, but have both base and invention salvage convert TO brainstorms.

Convert common salvage (any) at 1 salvage:1 brainstorm.
Convert uncommon salvage (any) at 1 salvage:5 brainstorms.
Convert rare salvage (any) at 1 salvage:10 brainstorms.

Have crafting costs based only on prestige and brainstorms.

Basic Tier 1 items = 5-15 brainstorms.
Basic Tier 2 items = 15-30 brainstorms.
Basic Tier 3 items = 30-45 brainstorms.

Empowerments could be priced based depending on the type/strength of the buff.

Solves:
<ul type="square">[*] Any confusion in base item crafting.[*] The need to keep salvage racks ridiculously low.[*] Avoids market impact entirely.[*] Promotes groups donating to the base.[*] Provides more options, not less.[/list]
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Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?

A. In short, the market. The market system is designed to have a steady supply of salvage coming in. If large salvage racks were added, it would create a temporary supply problem of unknown duration until the salvage racks filled up.

Since having salvage temporarily dry up would be a big problem for all players, this number was intentionally kept low. Once the impact on the markets as a whole can be measured, we will look at adjusting these numbers again.

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I could say many things about this, but I'll go with the nicest: Using the Market is PVP. People were never meant to be forced to PVP. This change forces PVP on those that don't want to.

The other thing is did anyone bother to even look at the market prices when coming up with the crafting costs?

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No rent is charged for basic utility items like Teleporters, Teleport beacons, Medical Reclaimator's, Basic Work Tables, and Invention work tables. Rent free bases of any size can still be built, with all the normal utilities available. In the future, we will be looking into improving how rent is charged as well.

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This is yet another nail in the "Why are teleporters crafted" coffin.

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So, beyond that, I’ve been a long time reader of the base threads, and am looking forward to seeing the new bases that will be built. My goal is always to make base building better, and we will keep working to bring in new features to improve bases.

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Seeing that base building is going to come out of my pocket more, I'm going to keep the base restrictions locked down. I don't want someone removing an item that will cost so much as to burden either myself or the group in general to replace a mistakenly deleted item.

I was seriously hoping for a change that would have meant that I could do away with base edit permissions.

I do have to thank you for this:
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Prestige Refunds: The programming team has set up a refund system for all base plots, rooms and items. As soon a player loads into a base, that base will automatically refund the Prestige difference. This is crucial: the base must be entered in order to trigger the Prestige refund. If your base is not loaded, then the refund will not happen until someone enters it.

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Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
Overall room and plot prices are good.

A few bases will now have rent that didn't before.

2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Certain portions will have to be done, yes.

3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
After planning, I'd expect to take a few hours per base. That is provided I have the needed salvage.

4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
Positive: While small groups will still have an initial hurdle to set up a base, it will be slightly less than before.

Negative:I think that even the largest decorative room should cost less than the least expensive functional room. Some bases will now have rent that didn't before.

5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
For the larger groups I'm in, the extra prestige will mean larger bases in the short term.

For the smaller groups, base pricing will narrow the waits between upgrades, and more frequent rent payments or closed bases.

Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Small groups:
* Functional Base items price increased. By base functionality, I mean base items not directly related to PVP. This includes Control, Power, Teleporters, and medical auxes.

All groups:
* Having to ask group members (or myself) to sacrifice their builds or inf so that a base can grow.
* Increased dependency on having others on line to ask for donations. Before base salvage was donated freely, and I could work on the bases while everyone else was not online.
* Not being able to share event salvage due to the "new" salvage rack.
* Rare salvage, and salvage needed for common IOs should not be used for basic items.
* Forces market use.

2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?
Recipes went from 6-39 pieces of salvage to 4-6.

Right at the moment, I can honestly say that I see absolutely nothing else positive about this change.

3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
Personally, not long.

4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?
* That certain recipes will inflate the market prices so much that being able to purchase a basic item will cost hundreds, if not millions, of INF. Add in the increased demand for the same items thanks to dual builds and the empowerment stations, and you have a "perfect storm" brewing that will make base functionality overly expensive.

* Having to ask group members (or myself) to sacrifice their builds or inf so that a base can grow.

* Having a harder time finding the salvage needed to craft the items.

5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
Same as the enhancement racks, only more so: theft of rare/valuable salvage needed to build base items.


Additional Notes:
* Getting tired of speaking to a wall.
* Getting sick, tired, and annoyed of not being told why the salvage change was needed in the first place.
* What is the purpose to having to craft a teleporter? A med aux?
* Lack of event salvage storage is a killer, especially with the upcoming Winter Event.

Edit:
* Shouldn't these questions have been asked in June after Issue 12 went live?

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Too many assumptions to be in any shape or form to be an accurate hypothesis.

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Well, yes. I'm assuming these people are "accidentally" taking the route from 10 to 20 where they fight the least number of enemies and consequently get the least amount of salvage.

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Not the assumptions I was talking about.

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I've got 5 mil on a level 20ish character of mine who might have got a bit lucky here and there but mostly didn't.

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Assumptions #1 &amp;2: a level 20ish character with 5 million that [u]might have[u] gotten a [u]bit lucky[u].

Unless you dedicate to using the market, it is unlikely that is possible without a sugar daddy.

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Let's assume an SG of 8 people is getting to level 20 from level 10, where they established their SG.

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Assumption #3. Size of group.

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But let's assume they always team up.

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Assumption #4. Possible, but not always the case.

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This effectively doubles XP relative to other measures of advancement, so that's 1,000 approximate minions per character.

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Assumption #5. Literally pulling numbers out of your &lt;censored&gt;. At this point the point behind your post is lost.

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And let's assume they always play with rested XP on. 500 approximate minions per character.


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Assumption #6. Making up numbers again.

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So, by level 20, each member of this SG will have acquired 40 salvage, for a total of 320 salvage.

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Assumption #7. Random Number Generator.

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Of this about 11 pieces will be rare, 56 uncommon, and the remainder (253) common.


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Assumption #8. Random Number Generator.

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Now let's look heroside at all the places a level 20 character could go. Remember, to get a beacon you need to explore the heck out of a zone, which means being able to survive in it.

Atlas Park, Galaxy City, Perez Park, The Hollows, Kings Row, Steel Canyon, Skyway City, Talos Island, Independence Port, Striga Isle, Boomtown, Faultline. And Pocket D, I guess. That's 7 teleporters' worth of locations. What the heck, round it up to 8.

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Assumption #9. Hero side by level 20 on my controller, I can get PI which is a very safe short swim to the single unguarded badge, Founders a tiny bit tricky but possible, Brickstown very easy with flight, Terra Volta is 20+. The only ones locked are the hazard zones.

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Assuming they care about what kind of telepad they have, and that salvage winds up evenly distributed among the types, they will have 1 piece of their desired rare salvage, 4 of their desired uncommon salvage, and 20 of each needed common salvage.

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Assumptions #10 &amp; 11. Random Number Generator.

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The question then becomes, how much of the unneeded 10 rare, 52 uncommon, and 221 common salvage will they need to cash in to get 7 rares and 4 uncommons?

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Assumption #12. Assuming that people will want to use the market.

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Villainside a level 20 only has to worry about going to maybe 4 places, potentially 5, so they're only looking at cashing that giant chunk of commons in for another couple rares.

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Assumption #13. I can get all the beacons except the RWZ villain side at level 1, but I generally wait till level 2 so that I can get to level 3 on my stalker just by explore beacon xp. I've done it several times.

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Of course, this all assumes they've got enough prestige to buy and power 4 rooms, 8 teleporters, and 13 beacons, which I don't have numbers for but which I believe may not be a very reasonable assumption.

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Assumptions #14.

I repeat that is far too many assumptions.

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A lot of the happiness over the base salvage removal seems to stem from "well it doesn't affect me, so why isn't everyone happy?" But then I guess that navel gazing is a way of life for those happy about the base salvage removal.

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IF and I'm not sure if your remarks were to me about the navel gazing - No where did I mention that I'm happy about the specifics of base salvage, I just don't think it's this big [censored] deal. I said to help people out in my post. I like trying things out before I make a judgment that way I'm not close-minded.

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No, it was a general statement. People can "test" the salvage removal all they want, but the fact of the matter is that there is no way to predict what will happen once this hits the live servers.

However it isn't that hard to understand that changing from a group currency to a individual currency will have an impact. The thing is that all you have to do is look at the new recipes and then look at the markets. Start comparing the two and it raises red flags everywhere. This is not a nice change.

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Go craft now with existing base salvage and have it in your base details that you can add at a later time if you want.

Same with a lot of the other base items, craft those spirit signals! make that AES!

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You do know that if you craft an AES now and place it later you will be paying 500,000 prestige more than the new invention made version, right?

Making teleporters now will solve the problem for existing groups, however that does nothing for future groups.

A lot of the happiness over the base salvage removal seems to stem from "well it doesn't affect me, so why isn't everyone happy?" But then I guess that navel gazing is a way of life for those happy about the base salvage removal.

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ppl will farm and flood the market with what we need anyways!

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Keep dreaming... And the other half is that very few members in a sg will bear the costs of being forced to use the market.

Before or after Issue 13?

Before: "How to make a Magic Desk." just below this post.

For a concise version, see the Scoop that was put out on November 10th:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...12476679#Bases

After Issue 13, you don't have to do all that, you can stack things on top of any desk it seems.

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Now the part that's irritating is that we've had the Scoop for how long now and this is the first time I have ever seen a page glitch in IE. Regardless, I wish MS would just go compliant and be done with it.

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There have been a few here and there, but generally we catch them before the Scoop goes out. We're doing a lot less corrections these days. Mostly it is padding/spacing that causes a problem. It was a larger issue before we got the .CSS sheet working (which is why I knew it wasn't a CSS error).

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I'm almost to the point of telling people that the Scoop is best viewed in a standards-compliant browser. Internet Explorer just plain sucks.

May I suggest you try Firefox, Opera, or Google Chrome?

I doubt that the page can get fixed before Monday. I'll see what I can do.

Edit:
Actually Internet Explorer isn't having an issue with the CSS. Apparently it is not working correctly with the age old standard Table tag. It is MS's faulty display, not the html that is the culprit here.

[/ QUOTE ]Hey it says right at the top of each forum, no discussing politics (or has this reached the religion level now?).

To be less of a smart alec, there are people out there with jobs that let them surf the net, but not install whatever latest and greatest browser with the three hundred plugins required for an "ideal" browsing experience.

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Actually, I found the specific property of the tables that caused IE to go haywire. I've made the corrections available to the forum moderators. Given how busy they are, it might be a while before they are corrected.

Meanwhile for those who insist that they will only use IE:
http://halcyon-graphics.com/scoop/page3.html
http://halcyon-graphics.com/scoop/page4.html

As to "discussing politics": I suggested only that people use any other browser than IE, and gave other options to view it.

I know for a fact that you can get a version of Firefox that will run self contained on a usb key. I just checked and there are usb versions of the others as well.

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no comic again this week? maybe i missed something in the scoop, but hopefully it will return eventually.

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The comic will return next issue.

I'm almost to the point of telling people that the Scoop is best viewed in a standards-compliant browser. Internet Explorer just plain sucks.

May I suggest you try Firefox, Opera, or Google Chrome?

I doubt that the page can get fixed before Monday. I'll see what I can do.

Edit:
Actually Internet Explorer isn't having an issue with the CSS. Apparently it is not working correctly with the age old standard Table tag. It is MS's faulty display, not the html that is the culprit here.

Fare thee well, Lighthouse!

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I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but does anyone know the salvage requirements for the AES?

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Here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...umber=12468209

Too many assumptions to be in any shape or form to be an accurate hypothesis.

It will not be on plot size after issue 13 by all indications. However what it IS based on seems to be subject to change.

Edit:
You might also want to pay a bit of attention as to who the other poster was responding to. In this case it wasn't you.

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tying basebuilding to market prices which are subject to manipulation is bad

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Actually that is the heart of my one of my objections to the developers getting rid of base salvage.

The other is the group/personal line that has been crossed. Invention salvage is a personal item, just like INF. Base salvage is a group item, which goes with Prestige.

Actually I was going to suggest that you might want to take a look at how MadScientist did the last base items list.

He's got all the items named in a nice table format...

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I'm assuming the answer to 1 is "yes" and the answer to 2 is "at the old cost" but I'd like to get a confirmation on that.

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Your assumptions are correct.

Except for those with 8x8 plots...

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Increasing demand is good for the market, because it increases the price and potentially makes the market a more profitable option than vendoring salvage.

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Good for the market, bad for bases.

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Because there is an opportunity cost in filling up that 50 with salvage, but none in filling up the rack.

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Holiday salvage. Halloween for costume slots, Candy Canes for some IOs (including a nice Unique, and costs 130 Candy Canes for a full set), costume pieces, badges, and holiday temp powers... All these opportunities to share with one's SG is LOST with the new racks.

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I’d like to take this time to go into more on the designs for some of the new stuff in Issue 13.

Bases:
We’ve made some changes to the way players deal with bases. Overall things got a lot less expensive, Prestige-wise, in bases.

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Prestige maybe, the OTHER costs went through the roof.

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This means that smaller SGs should be able to accomplish more with their bases now.

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This is simply untrue. Smaller SGs will be forced to used the Market System (something you promised in Issue 9 that people would not be forced to use) to even craft a tier 1 item like a telepad, because you have chosen to include rare salvage. To make matters worse, you've made Invention Salvage needed for dual builds, empowerment stations, as well as using the salvage required for the "power 10" IOs.

All this amounts to an overall increase in prices. Prices that I must add will be borne mainly by Group Leaders and Base Architects. This is ESPECIALLY true in SGs that are fewer than 6 people.

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If your SG wants to take advantage of the new, lower, prices, you’re going to have to do a little work in selling the older items, and buying the new, lower priced items. It’s an unfortunate artifact of the way the base system was designed that we can’t just refund your SG the difference straight away.

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Which shows that this change should have been held back until such a fix could have been implemented. Instead, in your rush to push through a poorly thought out change, you are off loading the conversion to players. Now you will have to maintain two sets of base items until such time that you can get around to automating the switchover.

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We’ve also eliminated the need for Base Salvage. Now everything in bases can be built with Invention Salvage.

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Thus you've went beyond ignoring the players concerns (which have been brought up repeatedly in the base section for the last month) to fix a non-existent problem of people "not understanding the difference between base and invention salvage". A problem, I might add, that could have been fixed with a simple text change to "Base Salvage Found".

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You will even be able to convert all that extra Base Salvage into Invention Salvage to help get rid of the extraneous items your SG has probably accumulated.

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Those "extraneous items" are BACK UPS in case someone accidentally deletes a base item...

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This change will help smaller SGs build cooler stuff faster, as well as give large SGs a benefit for all their hard work so far.

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We've already shown that you've completely missed that mark. It will still take small SGs a long time to get up and running, and now one person will be getting shafted because the recipes REQUIRE invention salvage.

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Don’t worry, the storage containers in bases will now be able to hold a small amount of Invention Salvage as well now.

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You raised the base salvage from 999 to 2,500 because it was shown that the original base salvage racks stored LESS than a player could hold on a single character. Now you are telling us that we can only store 30 items in the rack? I know characters with more Halloween salvage on them than that.

To sum up the base changes in PVP terms:
EPIC PHAIL!

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<ul type="square">[*]Mission Teleporter Power - Players can save time and get right into the action by teleporting directly to their active mission.
[*]Exclusive Valkyrie Costume set - Costume pieces include two varieties of wings, a cape, a skirt/kilt, pants, boots, shoulders, chest, gloves, belts, and helmet with multiple details.[/list]These items will be available separately for purchase in early 2009 for customers [u]who are not playing on a Mac.[u] We’ll have further details of these exciting options, including screenshots, in the near future.


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I certainly hope you're planning to offer these to the PC version players too ... ?

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I weep for the future of reading.

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There's no reason to use SecuRom for an MMO (not that there's ever a justifiable reason to use it for anything), so I hope that this announcement is something they can use, not something they will use on everything, and specifically this client. Because it will, at best, be a big warning in recommendations I make.

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From that announcement, it seems that the piece of software that is under the SecureROM is the "Cider" program (aka Windows Emulator for the Mac) itself, not City of Heroes specifically.

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Yes, just like the Good vs. Evil edition of the game, the Macintosh version will include some special in-game items, including:
<ul type="square">[*]Mission Teleporter Power - Players can save time and get right into the action by teleporting directly to their active mission.
[*]Exclusive Valkyrie Costume set - Costume pieces include two varieties of wings, a cape, a skirt/kilt, pants, boots, shoulders, chest, gloves, belts, and helmet with multiple details.[/list]These items will be available separately for purchase in early 2009 for customers who are not playing on a Mac. We’ll have further details of these exciting options, including screenshots, in the near future.

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Lighthouse, I think the people responsible for labeling things "exclusive" want to send people like LiquidX to an early grave just so they can spin in it.

I know "exclusive" in marketing-speak means for a limited time and/or a limited number of ways, but still.

Also when are the 2 core Collector Editions (CoH DVD, CoV DVD) going to get the same treatment (separate purchase for in-game goodies)?

After checking, the first announced winners have been emailed their codes yesterday.