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- Log into a character with the badge.
- Open up the badge window.
- Click on the events tab (unless new "account badges" tab is made in which case open that instead), click on existing badge.
- Game now (after change) understands that your account should have the badge and sets the flag on the account to award it to all characters from that point on.
This is analogous to having to having to log into the test server with a level 50 to open an epic AT. -
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What if anniversary badges were account-based originally? They had the tech, it's no different than VIP.
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Close, but I don't think it is exactly the same.
All the pre-Issue 14 account wide badges looked for something outside the game to award. Either a serial code (VIP/Destined One and Pocket Gold Club) or Vet Reward tied to account date.
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Passport is account-wide and was triggered behind the scenes as part of the transfer. Triggering a similar badge during a date range could have been done.
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Passport was for logging into the PlayNC account and switching to the European servers. Again, this is external to the game.
Now if you are saying that having an active account earns progress, then every single account that existed before the first anniversary would have the first badge as there was a free-play weekend during it.
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course, that doesn't at all relate to the point of a hypothetical. How about "what if they had coded that back in I2?"
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Of course not as the answer would be "all active accounts during those periods have the badge(s)." -
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What if the badge did not award until the badge was awarded naturally (log in during event date) OR selected as a title at least once? This way those that don't want it on all characters can be happy, while those that would like it on all characters will be happy.
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How would you mechanically provide an interface to allow the player to "select" the title for the badge if the badge hadn't been awarded yet?
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<headdesk> If the badge has not been awarded, then the first character that logs into the event sets the flag for all future characters (ie. going forward). Admittedly, this will annoy the minority that only want the badges on the characters that log into the event.
The other option is to have an option "Allow badges to be awarded globally. Yes/No"
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It sounds like you'd need some form of placeholder badge just for the optional badge trigger, similar to the veteran award badges (I'm assuming using /settitle commands themselves would not be considered an elegant solution for most players).
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How about opening the badge window and click on the badge? The /settitle command isn't required. -
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What if anniversary badges were account-based originally? They had the tech, it's no different than VIP.
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Close, but I don't think it is exactly the same.
All the pre-Issue 14 account wide badges looked for something outside the game to award. Either a serial code (VIP/Destined One and Pocket Gold Club) or Vet Reward tied to account date.
Only with Issue 14 did we get global account badges that could be earned through player actions in game. Even then they had a few problems like the Early Bird badge not always awarding globally (likely a server reset issue).
Now that they have worked out most of the bugs, it might be possible to award retro-actively for those that want it while keeping people like the original poster happy.
What if the badge did not award until the badge was awarded naturally (log in during event date) OR selected as a title at least once? This way those that don't want it on all characters can be happy, while those that would like it on all characters will be happy. -
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And Snow_Globe, I'm a little puzzled that you took it as condescending for someone from the market forum to come here and give advice on techniques they thought might solve a problem some base builders face.
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I used the word "condescending" once this thread, directed at a specific section of a specific post. A little bit of reading comprehension goes a long way.
For an example of a fully functional PVE base:
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I hope to heck it is retroactive if done. I also hope that there will be an account badges tab made.
I would say that those that oppose the anniversary badges being made global are in a very small minority. -
Reason: the arcs are usually marked X0-X4 or X5-X9, while the badge missions are X0 & X5. Given that flashbacks end on X4 or X9 you have this strange behavior.
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Now as I said, I have never seen an actual red name post on this topic, because other than a small flurry of posts from LH and then Sunstorm when he was first allowed to post, Base Construction does not see red names. The market impact reasoning is just what we have come up with as our "best guess".
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Actually that information was given to players during (mainly) closed betas. Some was repeated with open betas, but even those sections get eliminated with an Issue going live.
So the "paper trail" doesn't exist. -
I'll point out something here. The paragon of vice badge is in willy's flashback arc. Other villain badges might appear 1 section lower than the contact.
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This thread was about using prestige conversion to lower the amount of surplus inf in the game. You could see that as using other parts of the game to cure the market's ills....the exact opposite of what is apparently being rammed down your throat.
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Had that been it, then just say so.
Make prestige conversion attractive to base builders (we've been asking for that since Issue 6) and allow badge credit for inf lost to the market selling fees. You would have more people dumping inf to build up bases and you'd have badge collectors selling everything they can get their hands on.
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And of course, they only people using the market as an "excuse to block suggestions that would benefit the game" would be the devs.
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Actually, the devs are not the only ones. There are some players in the badge section, and some in the suggestions section that typify that statement. -
As a final reply to this thread, I would state that I don't hate people using the market. I just don't think that it should take precedence over other aspects of the game. I also think that market people should try a different approach than to try winning over new converts to the market system.
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It's my impression that the new system was designed without a knowledge of how bases or the market are generally used. Numbers were looked at, behavior wasn't. I'd call it a recurring oversight (the most recent example would be the MA badges).
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I would fully believe this.
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While I certainly understand the desire for a streamlined system, wherein salvage is salvage, and I also understand the concern about hoarding, I think both issues could've been addressed in a much less disruptive way, with a much more elegant system.
<ul type="square">[*] Bring back Components[*] Have Components used exclusively for Empowerments and Base Item crafting. [*] Add some salvage pieces that're used exclusively, or almost exclusively, for crafting Components. This would help insulate base stuff from volatile market fluctuations.[*] Create a separate storage unit for Components that can hold a significant inventory. Supergroups that actually make use of Empowerments can blow thru huge numbers of Components. I know this, because not only do I have a group that made use of them (not so much now, because it's currently such a pain), I also used to craft and sell Components. It's really the only explanation for the volume I used to move. [*] Make multiple recipes for the Component pieces. Magic recipes should require magic salvage, tech recipes should require tech salvage. Get rid of the mixed-up jumble we have now, which is both nonsensical and unintuitive.[*] Add a Base Item through which Components can be purchased directly, with Prestige, by individuals with the permission to do so. Obviously, they should be more expensive this way.[/list]
The above would make me happy both as someone who uses the market and as a base architect (currently the builder of 6 different bases).
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I would fully back these suggestions. -
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Marketeers don't bother with the cheap invention salvage. Although it's a lot of profit %, the absolute profit is laughable. I can make more just by crafting a L50 common IO and selling it than by flipping a stack of luck charms. It's just not worth the slot. The people that would be hurt most by the shortage of salvage are people like YOU who don't like playing the market and think everything is too expensive.
It seems this is one of your biggest beefs with the market. Believe me, I'd love to see more storage in the bases as well. I just don't see how people that like to play on the market are in any way responsible for these actions by the devs.
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As I have said above, I don't hold marketeers directly responsible for this. I place that blame on the Developers attempts at appeasing the markets.
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You seem like a nice enough person, I don't see why you have to be so antagonistic towards people who enjoy a different part of the game than you. They never did anything to you, even though you stubbornly seem to want to believe it.
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I wish everyone that loves the market the best market possible.
I just don't want it rammed down my throat that I should somehow see it as a means of curing other ills of the game. I don't want it used as an excuse to block suggestions that would benefit the game. -
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So much for keeping an open mind and avoiding being elitists.
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See, preachy again.
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Where do you get preachy again from? That was my first post in this thread. Unless as an elitist you are assigning the sins of others to me.
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You keep using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means.
Elitism is the belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources. I am not saying that.
I am saying that when a marketeer comes to another section of the forum they tend to preach at those that don't share the view. Preaching in this case is to give earnest advice, in an obtrusive or tedious way. In other words, "I've been able to do X because I was suffering in this way, so let me show you how you can too by following this advice." It generally reeks of moral superiority, and it is annoying.
On second thought, maybe elitism is the correct term, but I think you got the wrong group doing it.
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Strawman agrument. The fact that some people exploited the base system has nothing to do with this discussion. However I do agree that instead of being rewarded they should likely have lost those bases.
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So you will see me the strawman and raise me 2?
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You set up the strawman by arguing that you are doing nothing different that base builders posting what you consider exploits did. You distorted the position of the base builders this was set up in a way that anyone that disagreed was an exploiter. Thus fulfilling the definition of a strawman argument.
I have kept my discussion to the market and marketeers directly. Have you and others tried to convince others to use the market? You have. No straw man there.
Have marketeers done so in a moralizing manner, perhaps. It feels that way to me, but others might not.
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Let me just remind you that Sunstorm's post caters to the market not the marketeers. There is an unsubtle and important distinction there and your post shows me that though you may speak eloquently your guns are still pointed in the wrong direction.
Additionally the change that you bemoan and blame us for impacted us as well.
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The developers are doing this for the market's benefit. The developers believe what benefits the market as benefiting those that use the market. That you might not agree is between you and them, not any other section of the game/forum.
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Converting base salvage into components for use by the base builder was a great assistance in getting the badges required to getting the portable invention table. Some of the current problems you cite are directly related to having to do much more different kinds of crafting (and using up salvage for things that not nearly enough players use [like taunt IOs]) to get that badge and it affects not only the marketeers that are crafters but the badge hounds as well.
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I agree with you here.
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Had the developers left the base salvage alone or allowed base salvage to be sold for prestige instead of inf, the market section would not be facing the level of animosity in this section.
The market is also cited as the reason that we can't store recipes.
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And exactly what influence do you think the marketeers had in that? We had no more control over that than you did. Your animosity while it may be warranted is most assuredly misdirected.
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I will grant you that. You may not have, as a group, influenced these decisions. On the other hand, the developers seem to lend an immense priority to trying to keep the market as a whole happy.
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Additionally the market is cited as to why we cannot mail items and inf (admittedly this only by players).
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This however is directly related to player actions. The market drying up is the bogeyman used repeatedly to shoot this down.
I can tell you of several other attempts that I have made in the past to make it easier for people new to the market, yet every single one of them was given the market's party line: learn to use the market.
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You can store recipes in your market slots more recipes than you can carry since they will stack if they are identical. If you hate the market so much it's pretty obvious that you aren't using those transaction slots for their intended purpose and since the devs removed the 60 day rule your can use that storage with out any fear of loss.
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Actually, you would be wrong about my market slots. For the last two months they have been nearly always full of IOs that I have been selling, rather than just deleting wasted crafts as I try to get fabricator. Sometimes I have to take a huge loss just to get things out of those slots. Yes, I use the market, but I am not seeing it through rose colored glasses.
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Sadly, for every person like Fulmens, I can name at least a half dozen that give the entire market section a bad odor elsewhere. Just like PVP trash talk, having someone crow about how they "stuck it to someone" only causes resentment in other players.
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Oddly enough this is true for every section of the game and forums. This forum not withstanding. Fulmens nor I have any more control over their actions than you do. Again, your animosity is misdirected.
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I think you are reading something that isn't there. I am not angry. At worst I am indifferent due to other people's actions. The market itself, yes, I am angry at. Those that do treat the market as PVP I dislike. I feel that the players that try to tell me how happy-happy joy-joy the market can be annoying, but I don't hate them.
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Except it was the wrong way to do so.
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I see, so as a poor, second class citizen, marketeer that doesn't understand elitist protocol, trying to extending a hand and making the grievous error of extending the left hand when it should have been the right or palm up instead of palm down calls for an increase in misdirected animosity rather than a bit of understanding.
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No, what I am saying is that you may have to try a different approach. The whole "read my book or attend my seminar and you can profit too!" approach reeks of slimy paid television. Repeatedly making the same approach as the other more annoying people is exactly what I mean. Elitism isn't even a factor.
To put this another way, if you failed at selling something at one price, would you continue to try to sell it at the same price?
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Again why are you upset with the market section? What control exactly did we have over that?
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Because, for the most part, I tend not to see the the market system as separate from the marketeers. I think the developers might see it the same way.
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As far as being upset having to use invention salvage to craft base equipment your animosity is misdirected. There were no increase in drop rates to compensate for the invention salvage base builders are now taking out of the invention system.
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I agree, the developers shoulder most of the blame here.
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What you are blaming me for is no more my fault than the above is yours. Only the point of view has been changed.
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Then there are those that do treat the market system as PVP. There are also others that oppose suggestions based only on the market's health.
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Yes and so what does this strawman have to do with any thing.
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To be a strawman I would have set up a distorted or diminished view of your argument. Further, I would have to cite these as proof that you are wrong, and I am right. Neither of these statements fall in the category of strawman.
There are people that treat the market system as PVP.
There are others that oppose suggestions based only on the market's health.
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If you want to go there bases were originally intended for PvP use.
I13 caused base raiding to be turned off because the pathing intefered with the base revamp and decorating bases.
Should the people in the PVP Base section of the forums be upset with you?
After all "your" changes to the game have completely prevented the thing that "they" find fascinating about the game from being done.
Base raids in PvP bases don't exist right now. Your section of the game still works though I13 changed it. You got increased function while they got shut down. Should they blame you?
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The developers were changing pathing rules for PVP, not PVE. During the process they broke the pathing system entirely. Rather than delay the Issue until fixed, they turned off base raids. They should have left base pathing alone until they were able to get it working. Unfortunately, I suspect that while they were able to easily turn off pathing, the solution to having new pathing is much more difficult than they anticipated.
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Let me just leave you with this thought. Had the devs implemented inventions with out the market just how easy would it be to IO out your toon?
You wouldn't be able to trade cross server. You wouldn't be able to trade in different zones. You'd have to join a trading channel just to have a chance of transferring goods and that wouldn't even get you in touch with all the people on the server and you'd both have to be logged in at the same time to make a trade.
It would be like HamiOs all over again. Inventions can't function with out the market and vice versa. Sure you can ignore one or the other but it makes doing one with out the other much more difficult. That is the market health the devs are talking about not the marketeers or the market section of the forums.
If you don't like the market and don't want to use it you don't have to all the tools are in place so that you can use inventions with out it. Flashback and other tools provided will even let you gather everything you need for base equipment with out setting foot in the market.
If that's too difficult for you, you can always go back to SOs we all went 8 issues without inventions and SOs still work fine. I have 2 SO'd 50s that I still play.
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This, again, is what I mean about being preachy. You're tone is one of an adult patting a child on the head and telling them to "play nice". You are extolling the virtues of the market in a condescending manner. You seem intent on trying to "win me over" or make me buy what I have already stated that I don't want to.
I had this happen in real life as well. I recently activated a replacement credit card and while I was on the phone the customer service staff was pushing their credit insurance. I told them "no", which they took that I was "undecided" and were going to enroll me anyways.
Even though I never asked about the relationship between inventions and the market, I agree that Inventions and the markets are closely tied together.
I had no problem getting HamiOs or trading them, even on a smaller server like Triumph.
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Anyway it goes though there's no call for "you" to be mad at "me" for changes that someone else made and I have no control over.
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Again, I am not mad at you or Fulmens specifically. I am making an observation on the actions of the players repeatedly attempting to win converts to the market, and sometimes blocking other player's suggestions based solely on market health.
However, I am annoyed that you continue to talk down to me or try to convert me though. I am also amused that you are taking my statements as being "elitist".
I am saddened that you do not seem to realize that I agree with you that the developers are to blame about the changes. However those changes are made. While you and others like you are not responsible, the image exists that the market and the marketeers is the same thing. -
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I believe that it's time to weigh in here as this is going completely down hill and a quite innocent question that sought only knowledge is being trashed and vilified by some of you. The OP, who is actually one of the Market Forums more altruisitc members, is being treated by some as little better than a terrorist.
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I agree. Fulmens is not a terrorist. I fully believe that Fulmens was trying to ask an innocent question until this post. That was the line crossed between innocent question and preaching the virtues of the market.
This however doesn't make Fulmens a bad person.
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My wife and I are the proud owners of a 15 million+ prestige base on Justice Blue side that houses only our alts. We started it back when the costs of plots, rooms and equipment were much more expensive and you had to decide between earning prestige OR influence.
It was extremely hard for us to get a functional base going AND enhance our alts. We literally had to choose between group earning or individual earning and not just for our personal base but for the large Public SG base that we also belonged to.
When the market was introduced we saw it as a huge boon. We could now stay in SG mode 100% of the time and sell our drops to allow us enough influence to slot out our toons at the same time. That's when I became a regular in the market forum.
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See, preachy again.
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I could have blamed all of the base building difficulty we faced on the PvPer's, the PvP base designers, or the Base builders here and loudly proclaimed that it was all their fault, that it was so time consuming and grindy for me to get a functional base let alone an aesthetically pleasing one, but that would have been as completely inaccurate as the above is.
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My responses have little to do with blaming marketers for ruining the game. I have a problem with people trying to convince me that their playstyle is for me. I've used the market system, but when I'm getting consistently messed over by under-bidders and those inflating prices "just because", it gets tiresome.
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If you must lay blame, put it where it belongs, in the hands of the people who actually have control of the code, the devs.
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Oh, I agree that a lot of the blame falls on the developer's shoulders.
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I could have claimed that magic desks and magic doorways were "exploits" and the base builders that used them should be banned and get all bent out of shape that they actually wrote GUIDES to teach other people how to use the "exploits" but I didn't.
I took it at face value that some folks had learned an easier way to do something and wanted to share with the other folks in game, to help them, and save them the trouble of learning the hard way.
Most of the folks in the market forum are just doing the same things that you all are. Congratulations you on your successes, sympathizing with your failures, and teaching the open minded how to do something better or easier with out having to learn the hard way.
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Strawman agrument. The fact that some people exploited the base system has nothing to do with this discussion. However I do agree that instead of being rewarded they should likely have lost those bases.
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This statement is so bereft of facts that it is painful.
The devs do not cater to the marketeers.
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Incorrect.
Sunstorm posted this:
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Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?
A. In short, the market. The market system is designed to have a steady supply of salvage coming in. If large salvage racks were added, it would create a temporary supply problem of unknown duration until the salvage racks filled up.
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Had the developers left the base salvage alone or allowed base salvage to be sold for prestige instead of inf, the market section would not be facing the level of animosity in this section.
The market is also cited as the reason that we can't store recipes. Additionally the market is cited as to why we cannot mail items and inf (admittedly this only by players).
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This whole thread appears to me an attempt to get all us Base Builders to join them, and help drive prices even higher.
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Yes, it was an attempt for understanding, reaching across the isle, and getting base builders to join but not to raise prices. To lower them.
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Sadly, for every person like Fulmens, I can name at least a half dozen that give the entire market section a bad odor elsewhere. Just like PVP trash talk, having someone crow about how they "stuck it to someone" only causes resentment in other players.
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An influence sink is a way that games like this remove most of the excess influence that is being produced like I demonstrated above. This game has a total of 5 influence sinks. Costume changes, difficulty setting changes, market fees, converting influence to prestege, and buying enhancements whether it be SOs or spending the crafting costs to create IOs (that don't degrade and never need to be replaced, compounding the possible problem of inflation.)
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Yeah, we been asking for a change to the Inf->Prestige conversion since at least August 2007. Actually we also asked for the ability to trade base salvage for prestige directly and that would have keep that from piling up. Instead we got the complete removal of what was actually useful to us, and then had to compete with the market prices and other uses out of the base builder's pockets.
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Some of us wanted to know if the influence to prestige conversion was being used enough to be effective at removing some of the excess influence.
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Had this question appeared alone, without the attempt to get more people using the markets, then the question could have been succinctly answered: There is no way it would be used enough to make any sort of dent in how much inf is around.
As I said above, the conversion at the registrars is so insane that no one would use it. Actually one group uses the conversion, but that won't help you at all. The one group that does use it are players on the Test Server. Why? It is because you can copy a character with several million Inf to the test server, hand off the inf, delete the now penniless copy, and repeat. That is a license to print Inf.
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We were hoping we could join with the base builders (since you folks actually DID get some attention from the devs in I13, a trick we certainly haven't been able to pull off) in requesting that the devs actually LOOK at making the influence to prestige conversion WORTH using to take some of the excess influence out of the system and help reduce prices for the brand new player AND make it easier on the brand new base builder to get a functional and even elegant base a little faster and a little easier than we all were able to do for ourselves, but I guess that was too much to hope for.
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Except it was the wrong way to do so.
To make matters worse for the market section, some base builders are upset with loosing the ability to store 2,470 pieces of salvage with the Issue 13 changes. Some base builders are upset that we are pretty much forced to use the market system to craft the items for our base (somewhat lessened now thanks to the Architect). This is because instead of having a special salvage that the group can freely donate, we have to compete with all the other uses for invention salvage. The leading competitor is the market because invention salvage sells for so much.
Then there are those that do treat the market system as PVP. There are also others that oppose suggestions based only on the market's health.
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I will add one thing as a badge collector, not a base builder. If the market fees for selling items (not placement fees) counted towards the Inf badges, I would say that there would be a greater influx of badge collectors using the market. They would gladly put stuff up for sale. -
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And while we're at it: 500 Summoned Illusionists?
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I think that was one of Statesman's final acts: conforming badge counts to his Prima Guide update.
I suspect that the reason it is a 500 count is that they are classed as underlings, so they figured that the count should be the same as the DE Eminators. -
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As a note, a fully functional base costs around 3.5 million prestige to build with the post-Issue 13 prices. This means that a fully functional hero base would cost around 1.75 billion Inf to build.
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Ouch. That's enough to fully slot out my new scrapper and still have enough left over to get a good start on a second build or another toon, lol. I hadn't put any thought into the overall cost for a base (I just build as I can afford what I want), but I wouldn't want to be converting THAT much Influence when it could be put to much better use elsewhere. More points in favor of not converting as far as I'm concerned
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What was worse was that before Issue 13, that bare bones functional base was 6.6 million prestige to build. -
While my response may be less than eloquent, I'm personally getting sick and tired of market people trying to tell me that it solves all game ills. At that point the very first thought that comes to mind is "snake oil salesman".
Worse, in my opinion, many proponents of the market system actively block some fixes to other aspects of the game that would greatly improve player's enjoyment of the game. There are also adverse design decisions that are pretty much dictated by market considerations. The mentioned base salvage removal and being forced to compete with other uses of invention salvage being one of the most notable. Throw in the 2,500 to 30 nerf on the base salvage containers and you pretty much can kiss any remaining sympathy goodbye.
It all adds up to people trying to get others to market-PVP, even though the market was billed as an optional system.
As a note, a fully functional base costs around 3.5 million prestige to build with the post-Issue 13 prices. This means that a fully functional hero base would cost around 1.75 billion Inf to build.
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I would like to point out that this reply was trying to explain to The_Demon_Hunter about my initial response. It was NOT meant as an attack against Fulmens. I apologize to Fulmens for not thinking how this response would come across. It was not meant as an attack. -
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Or do I have no real audience here?
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This. [edit: Removed an over the top comment, but it is probably moot as it was quoted down-thread.]
The purchased prestige at the SG registrars is 1 Prestige to 500 Inf. If I am remembering correctly, before the reduction of the SGmode Tax playing the game earned 1 Prestige for every 100 inf lost, now it is 1 prestige for every 50 inf lost. Paying at the registrars is paying ten times too much. -
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From the second half of the original post:
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Architect:
* Mission High Inquisitor: This badge is for completing 100 MA arcs in test mode, not just missions as the text says.
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The same problem exists for all Architect badges stating "mission completion". The game treats all MA arcs as a single mission. What I am saying is that this needs to be fixed before your suggestions get put in place.
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When, exactly, does the badge progress?
If it progresses when you talk to the contact the final time and get the end-of-arc popup, then the MA is actually moving the badge on the whole arc, not treating the missions as a block as you say. It's actually triggering on a whole different item.
If the progress is when you get "mission complete" on the last mission, then what's happening is that only the last mission of the arc is picking up the code that generates badge progress. That would be like the TF missions, where the rewards are merely a drop keyed to the last mission itself.
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From what I can tell, the Architect "mission completion" badges progress on talking to the contact the final time. I haven't checked this exhaustively though.
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Not that it matters anymore, though.
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True. -
From the second half of the original post:
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Architect:
* Mission High Inquisitor: This badge is for completing 100 MA arcs in test mode, not just missions as the text says.
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The same problem exists for all Architect badges stating "mission completion". The game treats all MA arcs as a single mission. What I am saying is that this needs to be fixed before your suggestions get put in place. -
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Snowie cant be dead, you cant kill the undead.
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...but I'm feeling MUCH better now! -
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archiving this here, based on an idea in the MA Badge Revisions thread,
This is an idea to fix the objective count badges.
The problem to address is that people create missions with artificial objectives, or very short arcs, just to farm these badges.
Note as a side effect, this setup would also remove the team unfriendly aspects of the badges, too.
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And until such a time the game can count [u]missions[u] instead of [u]arcs[u] these would be a bad idea. -
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Haven't checked the hospital area yet
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I have, it doesn't work either. Same goes for the Mercy base portal, the Hospital in the RWZ, or the Base Portal in the RWZ. It looks like there is no spot left that gives credit for two day jobs at once.