SmokeSignal
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Except that a league on Test cuts out the more casual crowd that isn't interested going off the live servers, downloading test, copying characters over, etc. I don't have a problem with it. I miss playing on Test all the time. But the fact is, we get more people participating on the average when it's on Live with a draft. The Champion league got scarce after the halfway point, but that's why Dex is suggesting a league half as long. I think it's a great idea and surely worth a try.Originally Posted by Tokyo
The point being made was that there really isn't anything to lose. You might actually gain league members if there were a test league as it is accessable to everyone.
I'm starting to feel the crux of the argument against trying another test league isn't so much inconvenience on the part of coordinators but the fear that less seasoned veterans would be able to compete on equal footing as far as builds are concerned.
As it stands the league is a joke and will continue to be a joke except amongst the the kids participating in the circle jerk.
If the league is on test it becomes open to everyone, hardcore and casual pvper alike.
Instead of ******** constantly about this being a joke and that being a joke, why don't you either sign up and play or sit down and shut up? We've had some very entertaining 6v6-8v8 fights over the last couple of months.
I'd say to do a couple more Live leagues to pull in those that are very new or just starting out, then do a Test league. After that you could alternate between Test and Live easy enough to pull in more people on a constant basis. -
Quote:It was fun enough. Didn't you have fun on your team?Originally Posted by Tokyo
Try again? What's the worst that can happen? The league begins to deteriorate?
How's that champion league going for ya..... -
Quote:Team limitations only serve to create a slightly altered optimal team make up. Then everyone runs that. It's not going to breed the new teams everywhere omg what is that environment some people think.Originally Posted by Championess
You're my own personal stalker eh?
I also am a fan of the line-up submission, it's kind of a guessing game on whether the other team will have 2 emps and either 6 psi/ems or they go wtih 4 and a hodge-podge of other things.
Also, 1 veat should be able to hassle 2 stalkers so they could use 4 of those and have room for 4 KM/regins.......
2-3 stalker limitation and call it a day. -
Quote:The cap's up to 8? Sweeeeet.Originally Posted by Vexington
Only 80% of people maybe willing to PvP in some form of a League won't do it on Test, even if it's working flawlessly without a broken copy tool or a server cap of 8.
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Quote:What he said.Originally Posted by hemmingway3
Flares with a hold proc is stupidly effective. Yes, in some cases, it is worth it.
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Quote:Is $10 really that big of an issue? Even if we only get two 8 week leagues out of this that's 4 months of solid PvP without an lolpanelrule8343.34343.34 issue. I'm happy transferring a few toons off Champion for that.Originally Posted by Fatez
GG looks like this thing is gonna be extremely limited doubt we can get 8v8's now
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Quote:Actually all you do is frustrate people with your assumptions and general statements. We haven't said the changes make PvP too hard. We said they were simply bad changes that made it less fun. Fun and easy are not the same thing.Originally Posted by Dahjee
Real PvP happens whenever, wherever, and however Real PvP'ers choose to PvP. I apologize if this statement is too deep for you to understand. Arena is just a place that allows for Real PvP... Zone is another. Each zone and every combination of settings and maps in arena offer another place that allows the same.
I agree that regardless of the examples given, you all do seem to give responses based soley on an 8 vs 8 line up. While it is frustrating to try and make a point when dealing with peeps that can only look at things from one single perspective... I understand how doing things the same way and taking such pride in doing so... can make one defensive and unwilling to consider other perspectives. I remain patient, and do my best to stay polite.
I have nothing against arena, but I'm not a fan of the idea that somehow High-End competetive PvP is also the PvP that offers the least ammount of challenge, requires only the simplest AT builds to reach the deisired goal, and encourages the opposite of what the initial I13 changes were about. I'm 100% certain that those who lead such arena leagues and arena events could do better if they allowed themselves to consider a perspective beyond their current one.
I have no doubt that things have been tried... that some things have worked for you and others and some things have not... that even as we speak, in-game there are very smart and very skilled PvP'ers getting results from combintaions considered useless by the masses... but I'm no fool. There is a diference between providing guides and posting builds. They provide and promote two different things. If you have trouble figuring out the difference, let me know.
I am aware of the fact you all dodge and ignore me when I point out that effectiveness varies depending on the situation, team purpose, enviroment, etc... that your idea and definition of what has been "proven" effective is based on the settings and situations you test them under, and that competing under the same set of rules for long periods of time will surely reduce the possibility of playstyle options and diversity regardless of the ruleset. When you all are ready to discuss these issues as a community, let me know.
Sure. OK. You have a preference. It's your 15 bucks a month... and you have a place and a way to escape the TS and HD that you find un fun. You cannot have it both ways though. You cannot preach about Real PvP... and High End competetive PvP that requires whatever levels of PvP skill this game offers and also say it happens on the simple basis of fun and ease of play.
We're going in circles. When you can't turn to the numbers to base your argument on... you turn to "fun" as subjective as it is... and expect me to beleive that your fun is dependant on the system. This is the part where I'd explain that the system and powers/sets wthin are bound to change as it has so often in the past... and that one'e enjoyment of PvP can be based on doing well within the system, whatever it may be... as we have done so often in the past. This of course, is when you all turn back to the numbers.
Hey Guys. I'm not a troll, and I'm not trolling. What's funny is that I'm probably the only one in this thread that's been on topic from the start considering the OP was referring to the boards with their "How sad it is" title. My points revolve around these PvP forums... the sad state that they are in at the moment, what has caused it, and how to improve in the future. Without me in this thread, like almost every other new thread in the last 2 months here, it would have died having the same 6 people in agreement, using the same bad jokes with the same whiny attitude. I'm almost doing you all a favor by showing up. Your welcome btw. I hot threads, troll trolls, and given the oppourtunity... offer conversations that provide meaningful insight to newbies and veterans alike. I do so without raging or taking things personal.
Simply put... because they were PvP changes... designed for gameplay based on players fighting other players. General questions often beg for general answers B_Wtched. Would you like to elaborate or even specify which changes you are refferring to?
Happy 2011!
"You cannot preach about Real PvP... and High End competetive PvP that requires whatever levels of PvP skill this game offers and also say it happens on the simple basis of fun and ease of play.
We're going in circles. When you can't turn to the numbers to base your argument on... you turn to "fun" as subjective as it is... and expect me to beleive that your fun is dependant on the system. This is the part where I'd explain that the system and powers/sets wthin are bound to change as it has so often in the past... and that one'e enjoyment of PvP can be based on doing well within the system, whatever it may be... as we have done so often in the past. This of course, is when you all turn back to the numbers."
Wrong. We never said we could not do well in this system as it is. I challenge you to a fight on any map, any zone, any character/s, and any conditions that you select. Arena, zone, inspirations or no, 1v1 or 30v30 in a zone, no psi/em, whatever. I will wreck you embarrassingly and I guarantee you that I will not have any fun at all doing it. And I'm nowhere near the most skilled PvP'er in this game. As for the boards? This section is almost empty and in this state because the majority of the active PvP community left or no longer gives a ****. You can argue with that if you want to, but you'll be wrong again.
Arguing with me with references to being close minded, whiny, or simply malcontent is a joke anyway. I have long been the community sunshine rainbow puppy pony carebear and supporter of dev changes and possibilities of improvement since the launch of this game. Your 'whiny bandwagon just do what's easiest and ignore the possibilities' scenario just doesn't apply. You are the one with the closed mind. Too dependent on your ideal of right to listen to those that might just know more than you, have been here longer, and have done more. If you're having fun in the system as it is.. I'm very very happy for you. That doesn't make the changes good overall or your experience with the changes 'the way'. -
Quote:I like this a lot. Twice as many leagues that are fast and fun is way better than half as many leagues that go dead before you're done. I'll sign that all day long.Originally Posted by Daknah
I think the biggest thing that I am going to push for with the other captains is that we do each team plays each other once since every previous league has died out just after the halfway point so hey lets cut the length of the league in half. Then once we finish this 6-8 week league we start another, I know its crazy but it just might work.
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No need to apologize that much.. dang. Simple mistake.
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Quote:Vex is right (dies a little inside), there is plenty of interest to support a league like the one that was just played/is being played on Champion. And this league was expected and has been looked forward to. Divine, if you don't want to play then don't. No reason to squat over someone else's teacup.Originally Posted by Vexington
You thinking it's some impossibility to get a league going is baseless. You're trying too hard.
I'll likely be playing on Artic's team. But, if necessary for the league, I can split off and form another. We'll see how it goes. -
Quote:Defense and slow based teams get wrecked by coordinated damage spikes. While those targets are down others are getting hit with less available support and those that died need to be rebuffed. Once the first kill hits the rest is a rinse and repeat downhill raepfest. The same thing goes for most teams that revolve around a single purpose/function. We know this because we've tested it.Originally Posted by Dahjee
Try it and get back to me. I don't know... you don't know. That's my point. Sure the numbers say this and that... and too often such is enough to turn our assumptions into fact without actually experienceing the full picture.
Here, the point you missed was that slows are possibly most effective when they are concentrated and/or coordinated from different players/sets. Nothing else was really implied.
Sad. So very Sad indeed.
You assume we don't know. I don't know why, but you do. Your hypotheticals are off base. Thinking outside the box is something we do. That's why there's teams built around obnoxious TA's flooring people and gravs wormhole'ing targets and some interesting and potentially hilarious turtle teams. It's not all 5 psi/em jump teams, but they are effective. And the ones that figured out that the delayed damage mini spike offered by psi blast made for an excellent spike were those that are making these other teams. Not you or those like you that stand on their pedestal and cry to the masses that you're the only ones that understand. -
Merry Christmas everyone! <3
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Quote:I tried to log in, but there were people on checking tail animation bugs and I couldn't get on.Originally Posted by Kawkazn
What did we win?
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Quote:I like how you make yourself out to be the only one who 'gets it'. It's amusing to me and I hope you continue.Originally Posted by Dahjee
I warned you all of this a year ago or so...
Do you all wish to blame the devs for the decay of this particular forum too?
It is a shame, I agree. This place has the potential for countless debates and discussions regarding lol Zone and lol Arena PvP. Each has a several styles and ways of play. However since you all decided years ago amongst yourselves that there's only one way of doing things... well...
GG I guess. Being stuck inside a box for so long... I'm surprised to see some of you here at all these days. -
Quote:True, but PFF defense isn't bad at all and you get the added resist to help you evade a spike and survive. I'll take PFF and Phase any day over Hiber which makes me a nice beacon to anyone that may want to have a crack at me when I exit.Originally Posted by Donna_
Def is poo in pvp...
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Quote:Get outa mah thread!! Boxxy hearts. <3 <3Originally Posted by Vexington
Stfu
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Quote:They're absolutely true and backed up with solid facts! They're usually found on the internet.Originally Posted by Antigonus
What about the other 11%?
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Force mastery has the ever so lovely PFF. Grab Phase from concealment and you still have a phase/hiber power with extra PFF goodness for very effective evasion. Tends to work better overall than Hiber.
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Quote:No.Originally Posted by SapperMagnifico
hahaha I get it. ok seriously, add me.
@sappermagnifico
I have more pvp experience than your whole team combined, you need me.
And no you don't.
And no. -
A blaster in RV or other zones.. you have a few options. Many will say psi/em, which is a solid choice. But for zone stuff and solo or small group Arena PvP it's not the only one. /em is the best option for Boost Range. Primary there's several ways you can go. Psi is good, fire is still my favorite, sonic is solid, and archery and rad have their place as well.
Play around with it and see what you like. Good luck. -
Want fantastically balanced PvP? Play a FPS. MMO's will always be rock paper scissors and I really can't think of one that has a perfectly balanced system. Team PvP, the larger the better, gets us as close as we can get to balance.
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Most us have the most fun in long close fights where we're not sure until the last 10 seconds who is going to win. Not three blast kill fights. Just saying.
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Quote:The thing is.. many of us do both. If there's a powerset combo that's known to be effective.. I'll roll one up sure! Then I roll ridiculous combinations that I've never even considered just to see. I get either a nifty PvE toon to play with or something unexpectedly good. I win either way. That's why I have a mind/sonic controller and still love my earth/storm and WS.Originally Posted by Dahjee
I think there's a lot of irony in the fact that people don't understand how playing less effective toons can lead to better skill and knowledge. FoTMs are NOT FoTM until they are made to be so by skilled players. I mean... you expect to get better... by doing the opposite of what the skilled players you're copying from did to create the build? You want the results of one's PvP education (so to speak) but do not want to go through the process they did to get educated?
Most of us will admit that we learn from the mistakes we do make, yet we will also admit that we do not try to make mistakes... It's funny how many of us try to avoid doing the things that help us to learn the most.
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My wife rolled an earth/elec which seems pretty interesting so far.
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Grower.. I really like this post and wish more PvE only players that turn their nose up at PvP would feel the same way, or at least consider this line of thinking. I say well said, and that you have the right general idea of things. It's not quite as simple as you put it (i.e. in a 1v1 fight certain controllers will still wreck the hell out of a solo opponent - but that really depends on who is fighting what with who), but you've taken your first step into a larger world. >.>