SlickRiptide

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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
    The original miniseries of "Shogun!" is around eight hours long. My wife rented a video version of it a while back, but it was distilled down to around TWO hours.
    Good Lord! Talk about a crime against story telling! I can't even begin to imagine how you could hack up Shogun in such a manner...
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess View Post
    I'm not sure how much more analysis of the plot will work. Are 'people' asking for the current writers to be sacked? Do they think they could do better?
    It's not a question of us as players doing a better job than the developers. It's a question of the developers doing a better job AS developers and as storytellers.

    Do you never go to a movie with family or friends, and then go out for coffee or drinks or a meal and then discuss and argue about what you just saw and whether it was good, bad, or indifferent and how it could have been improved?

    That's all that's happening here. I don't see why it should be a cause for consternation.

    More importantly, the SSA is a commercial product. It's not some free giveaway where you should just be grateful that someone took the trouble to make it for you.

    As a VIP, it's one of your perks that justifies the monthly subscription expenditure. It's not really "free of charge" because that list of perks is the reason that you're making that expenditure. Even if you don't think about the SSA most of the time, you'd notice if the list of perks started shrinking and at some point you'd decide that there were too few perks to justify the sub.

    As a Premium player, the SSA is an outright purchase at $5 per chapter. That means that as a premium player I will lay out $35 for the entire story if I want to experience it. $35 is more than the list price of pretty much every box there's ever been for the game except maybe for the initial releases of the collector's editions of CoH and CoV. You can be damn sure that if I spend more money on a single story than I ever spent in the past on an entire expansion set that I expect that story to be the greatest content ever published in the history of the game.

    You can snort and say that's unrealistic but I'm not the one who priced the story as if it was more valuable than an entire expansion like Going Rogue or any of the themed super packs we had in the past. If Paragon Studios markets their products at premium prices then they'd better deliver premium products. As customers, we need to take them to task if they fail in that duty to publish a product that delivers value for the dollar, unless we're actually patrons and we're just tossing donations at them and not really buying their product.

    In short, the "plot analysis" is just as much "market analysis" and you can be sure that the Powers That Be are keeping a close eye on how this initial foray into episodic content is being received. It behooves us as players to let them know exactly where they succeeded and exactly where they need to improve.

    The biggest complaint in this thread, if you boil it down to a single sentence, is "We need more story!" Not, "This sucks!". I think that the devs at Paragon Studios are thick-skinned enough to handle that sort of criticism without throwing up their hands and saying "Fine, you don't like it then YOU do it better!"
  3. SlickRiptide

    What's going on!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
    Then log into Atlas Park so you can tell us.
    *ba-dum-tish*
  4. It's entirely possible that I missed it due to all of the annoying Flash popups in the PDF, but I didn't see any reference at all to a summer event. It looked like it was just a continuation of the interview previously posted on the website.
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
    Very unlikely.

    Remember, Ghost Widow's very existence is tied into the continued existence of Arachnos.

    If she joined a group whose goal is the elimination of Arachnos it would be akin to suicide.

    Scirocco is much more likely to go good than Ghost Widow. He already has it in him, he just needs the curse broken and he can switch.
    Putting aside the unlikelihood of Ghost Widow being "redeemed", has it ever been shown that the Freedom Phalanx has "eliminate Arachnos" as one of their goals, let alone being their primary goal?

    Longbow might be characterized that way, but for any other group, Arachnos tends to range from an annoyance to something akin to the "War on Terror". You can attempt to obstruct its advances from time to time but you can't really eliminate it.
  6. "maybe...", "probably...", "imagine if...", "I assumed...", "anyone in his situation would...", speculate, guess, infer, deduce.

    If the story was complete we wouldn't be doing all of this guesswork and writing our own personalized version of the story in our heads.

    If Paragon Studios intends to sell me SSA's as a virtual good, then future SSA's had better be complete stories and offer some sort of tangible game value and replay value. As it stands now, I own SSA 1-1 and that's the only chapter I'll ever need to own since buying extra chapters doesn't give me any more of a reward than owning that one chapter gives me.
  7. I assume you've already experienced Cimerora and the RWZ before.

    Eden and Crey's Folly are worth visiting once or twice for the ambience if you've avoided them previously. If you've never done an Eden task force, that's worth joining. If your character is a Praetorian you can use the experience to convince yourself that Primal Earth really does need Emperor Cole's guidance. heh.

    Warburg is a good place to visit. You can get the Rocketeer badge and some nifty temp powers at the same time. Who doesn't enjoy carrying the launch code for an orbital nuclear warhead in his back pocket? Sure, it's PvP, but even on Freedom it's a pretty quiet zone. On a less populated server you could pretty much treat it like any other zone.

    If you find that PvP isn't as bad as you thought it might be, then give Recluse's Victory a gander.

    Is it safe to assume that you have done all of the Ouroboros task forces?
  8. I voted C as the most Buck Rogers-like (love the rings!) but I would kill to have that chest detail from A with it.
  9. I voted B. I find A to actually be a bit futuristic looking while C is too simple for my tastes.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
    BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb omg omg omg omg omg BBBBBBbbbBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbb
    Yeah, what she said.

    Though I have to admit that there's a certain charm in strapping an actual rocket (c) to your back...

    Also, whatever shape the pack takes, it MUST also include a proper flight jacket and helmet.

  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
    It's not a retcon.

    She was 14/15 years old when CoH came out, and they aged her every year since. It's another of those wonky CoH Timeline...there's mission timeline and there's real time line.
    No, it IS a retcon according to Golden Girl's information. Her description says that she was 18 when we first met her and that she has been getting training from a mysterious, unnamed person in the intervening four years. (Presumably, the Clockwork King.) It's in this thread back up towards the first couple of pages.

    Since I'm pretty sure that her age was never explicitly defined then it's technically correct to claim "No, it's just a clarification" but the fact remains that her depiction is, as you say, that of a 14-year-old or thereabouts.

    ***EDIT***

    I went looking for Golden Girl's post on that topic and found that Beastyle had "moderated" out Penny's personal description. Maybe they're going to change it from what it was when Golden Girl first checked it, or maybe they just didn't want that as a spoiler on the forum. Hard to say.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lycantropus View Post
    And how about having the Library in the Universities have 'history books' on the shelves that give information as well. If a player wants to stand in there for an hour or two just reading. How about a newsrack that has "current events" based on your level range? Heck, even cooler, how about the newsies in front of the trains telling you 'headlines' of stuff based on the zone you're in?
    I've been asking for that stuff for years, and they even have the tech to do it, as evidenced by the "secrets of the midnight club".

    I eventually came to two realizations about it.

    One is that the story bible is not some fleshed out history of Paragon City. It's mostly a lot of ideas that get fleshed out when someone looks through it and finds one or two of those ideas inspirational in some fashion. The current trend in the dev staff seems to be "That's someone else's world, I want to tell the story of MY world" so those ideas are even less important than they would be otherwise. There's little interest amongst the dev staff in fleshing out Rick Dakan's world.

    More importantly, though, is the second realization: The devs are hoarders. They don't want us to have the lore at our fingertips. They want to keep it locked up in their vault and doled out a teaspoonful at a time. They already have a hard enough time trying to deal with the continuity problems that arise in the content of the past eight years. By keeping everything as opaque as possible, they leave themselves the freedom to define the world to be whatever they want or need it to be. Therefore, when they do something like kill Alexis Cole, they can basically ignore the vague implications in the past that she was some sort of high muckey-muck in Freedom Corps and instead paint her as a Paragon City version of Shirley Temple Black; a retired hero who "left all that behind" to do some real good in the world.

    We're never going to get that history library for that reason.

    On an unrelated note, I wonder if I'm the only player who read her POI and got a bit frowny at the idea that one of the premier heroes of the game (historically speaking) was described in a way that made it appear as if she considered her hero career to be something frivolous; casting MY hero's activities in a frivolous light as a result? Maybe that's just me.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Party_Kake View Post
    Heck there are people opposed to what they're seeing simply because they don't want the young character from the stories they remember to grow up.
    Another part of the disconnect here is that we're being sold a retcon that claims that she was already mostly grown up when we first met her.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gemini_2099 View Post
    I want to make a roman centurion with a sword at the character creator.

    Why do I need to buy the pack if the sword is not included? Yeah I don't.
    The base costume creator already includes a gladius, so you're in luck. If all you care about is "a" sword as opposed to "Romulus Augustus' sword" then you're clear to buy the Roman pack.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
    Exposition is lovely...when you don't have 7 other people breathing down your neck because they've done the arc 15 times already. Your solution seems to fail to take that into account.
    On the contrary, I personally would be thrilled to have prose stories that acted as bookends to each chapter of the SSA. I think that would be a fine way to expand the story and tell the parts of it that aren't conducive to scripting in a computer game.

    I'm not requiring that every chapter be two hours to play through, either. In fact, if they were progressing weekly instead of monthly then they wouldn't need to be any longer than they already are, and you'd still get four times the story, at least by my math.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Party_Kake View Post
    Which is precisely why there are so many threads about Back Alley Brawler and his obscene costume.

    Her costume is far more conservative than others and it's been labeled poorly simply because she's a woman.

    Heck there are people opposed to what they're seeing simply because they don't want the young character from the stories they remember to grow up.
    If what she wears under the costume is anything like what she has painted on top of it then she's definitely not a little girl any more.

    But I think we've established that shocking her father is probably one of her design priorities.
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
    This is that same wacky logic that got you so wrapped up over Dillo being a roleplayer

    Cupid is a Roman god.
    Strangely enough, I've been aware of this fact for something like 40 years.
  18. Am I alone in seeing that this is a limited time offer, including a "Cupid Bow" because "Roman" = "Romance" = "Valentine's Day"?

    If you want to blame marketing, blame them for thinking that it would be an obvious play on words.

    I have at least one character that would benefit from owning the Roman Pack, so I'll probably end up buying it.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by NuclearToast View Post
    It's Penny's Yang-pack.
    --NT
    *badum-tish!*


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
    You know what I'm fixating on? She has a belly button. When can I have one of those?
    Amusingly enough, detecting that when I blew up the funeral pic in Photoshop was what alerted me to the truth of Zwillinger's statement about the bare midriff back towards the top of the thread. It's weird to think that a detail like that is present in such a small picture but sure enough, it is.
  20. My biggest critique of the story is that it's too rushed. That may sound like a "You've got to be kidding me" thing to say about a story that's progressing at one chapter a month, but the frequency of publication is not really the problem.

    It's that the story is all payoff and no buildup.

    The biggest culprit is Statesman's final thoughts. Maybe they WOULD be sweet and tender and tear-jerking, except that we never actually have any build-up where we get to know Statesman well enough to appreciate that he feels responsible for the entire world as if only he can save it. We never see that he goes off alone to find and face Wade because of his fear that whatever enemy would purposely bait him like that is one that might put the entire Phalanx at risk. We don't see any of the planning and manipulation with a mysterious hand behind events that leaves us wondering what is about to happen and who is behind it. (Maybe more accurate to say that we don't get enough of it.) We don't see Alexis Cole-Duncan meeting with the Phalanx and/or the FBSA and acknowledging the danger but choosing to walk into it anyway because the potential reward is worth the risk.

    Basically, all of that "stuff" that people keep inventing to explain why the story has progressed this way when people complain about the holes. We get all of the payoff, the climaxes of the story with none of the buildup of suspense that normally precedes any of them.

    That's the biggest problem I have with people who say "Oh, just shut up and suspend your disbelief already!" We're not talking about suspension of belief, we're talking about story-telling.

    In an ideal world, this story would have weekly episodes and episode 1 of "Who will die?" would have been the climax of the whole first arc. Statesman's death would be the climax of arc 2. The rise of Godlike Wade would be arc 3. Throughout all of it, we would be seeing the whole story and getting the buildup of suspense that would fill the holes, show us the motivations, give us a reason to "suspend disbelief", show us some kind of growth or at least expansion of the characters involved.

    As it stands, we have to imagine all of the substance of the story, ourselves. When we are left with that, we're left with 10,000 different versions of the story and a lot of hand-waving.

    The Phalanx appears incompetent because there isn't any story to justify why any of the events are happening. We just get a lot of Kodak moments. "We'll have a battle of law vs chaos by having you fight Manticore!" "We'll have you fight inside of Sister Psyche's mind! Cool!" "We'll have you 'investigate' Wade's lair!" "We'll have you see Statesman's last thoughts!"

    It's just one event after another instead of a cohesive narrative, IMO.

    Maybe that's the most they had time for. If so, I hope that they take that lesson away from this experience and spend the time and resources to really make the next SSA be something completely fleshed out and worth experiencing as a story.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
    It's 99.99% certain to be at the Dinah again. We haven't singed contracts yet, so hence the .01%.
    .
    Is this one of those "deal with the Devil" type of contracts?
  22. Let's just say that if my main hero had freedom to act in any way he desired and he was standing beside Justin Sinclair watching as Malaise apparently murdered Alexis Cole in front of us, Malaise would not have left the the Isles alive. I have little doubt that Sinclair would backup whatever story my hero concocted to explain the accident that befell Malaise.

    Oh, and Marshall Blitz is apparently toppled as head of state of Warburg? We disabled the missiles and arrested Blitz. Where does that leave Warburg?
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
    If his plan works out, he'll use the name Rularuu.
    Isn't he already named Doctor Doom?
  24. I've mostly tried to avoid critiquing the SSA chapters because I know where that road leads for someone as verbose as myself.

    Litany of failure aside, I do have one rather big complaint and it ties into what Sam has been saying.

    It's this: The rationale of the people (i.e., not just people in this particular thread) who review the arc positively boils down rather consistently to this: "The heroes are not themselves, and so they fail repeatedly. That makes them human, not chumps."

    They're not themselves. One or more overcome with grief. One or more are blinded by anger. One or more their defense overloaded. One or more are cocky instead of cautious.

    For any of a half-dozen reasons, they are not themselves. Except for my hero, of course. She is the only one keeping her head and wits about her, and that's why everyone depends on her and dotes on her every action despite the fact that she's failing just as badly as the signature heroes.

    Yeah, fine. I get it. We're the stars now, and if we had any doubt about it, this arc puts it to rest.

    A story where the root cause of the heroes' plight is that they are all behaving abnormally is a story that does not appeal to me or make me feel satisfied with the writing.

    To answer your question, Sam, we no longer have any ideals. They are bad business, or so someone decided who apparently listened to the vocal complaints in that department long enough to become convinced that thousands of new F2P players would feel the same way.

    You can't just say "Oh, they're human. They're flawed. That makes them more interesting." No, it doesn't. It makes them boring and unworthy of respect.

    These are signature heroes. When I read a Retief novel, I don't read about yet another story where Retief bamboozles the diplomatic corps, deduces the fly in the ointment, wins the great diplomatic coup single-handedly, and once again gets all the girls, booze, and prestige while showing up the diplomats for the boring, hidebound, bureaucrat that they all are and then think to myself "Not again. If only Retief had a fatal weakness and he actually lost a gambit once in a while." I read Retief stories because that's the kind of story I WANT to read. If I wanted gritty realistic diplomacy stories I'd go read some real life diplomat's memoirs.

    When I want to play a super hero I want to play a story where the heroes act like, well, heroes and not like dense, incompetent chumps who are too blinded by their inadequacies to see the truth that I took about five seconds to see. (Oh,and Manticore showing up with police officers? This is the guy who has his own private mercenary army, right? Who decided they should be rogue law enforcement officers instead his own highly-trained and unquestionably loyal Wyvern troops?)

    I'm not saying that heroes should never have flaws, but for flaws to make the hero more interesting then they have to be interesting flaws. So far, this story is not giving us anything interesting. We're not learning about the heroes, or seeing them grow through adversity, or seeing any other redeeming feature of this continual parade of fail, fail, fail, fail, fail.

    All I'm getting is "Crap, I can't believe that happened! Good thing YOU were there or it would have been a lot worse! I'm so glad that YOU are here to protect us. YOU are the one thing that SuperBad fears. I wish that every hero was just like YOU."

    Yeah, thanks. I'll remember that when Alexis Cole's birthday rolls around.

    I didn't ask to be the most important character in the game world and as a player I think it's a mistake to send the game in that direction. I don't pretend that my views on that subject are representative of any kind of majority. It might be that the vast majority of players are that self-absorbed that they can't stand having a fictional character be stronger than their own hero. I remain unconvinced of the truth of that statement but I could be wrong.

    In any case, I think it's a bad precedent for the game but the die is set and there's really no turning back on that policy any more.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
    I'm assuming that several of the people posting here have NOT played through them, otherwise SlickRiptide would not be under the impression that it was Blitz who killed Alexis. It was not Blitz at all, in fact he had no idea she was going to be killed. The culprit was either A) the villain PC, or B) Darrin Wade (he shoots her in the head).
    You're mixing story and meta-story. My hero doesn't know nor care that a villain PC was the one to pull the trigger. All he knows is that Alexis was kidnapped, then apparently killed by Malaise. Whether Blitz himself pulled the trigger is irrelevant. The fact that the villains get to have some kind of successful outcome to their story while the heroes fail their own story is not some kind of cherry on top that redeems the sundae.