Silver_Weasel

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Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see something to entice more players, but I know how well the zone works when it's more full as it is. Getting rid of the Heavies won't help, it'll just make it dull. It needs a better reward system like Siren's, where there's a reason to complete the objectives. The 100 Prestige per player kill when your side has won is nice, but nothing much - I can get more killing mobs for the same amount of time. The mini-heavy temp power is nice, but you can only have one at a time. Pull in more people and give them more reason to complete the objectives, and the heavies - and hours of farming - would become a non-issue.

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And this is where we agree. But people won't go into RV if they just get trounced.

All 4 PVP zones are used primarily by farmers atm.;and are often empty when I go in.

So... How about lowering the environment level and bolstering the player level; which is where Hammerfall and I agree.

Seriously no; (And a healbot is someone who's there purely to heal you; as if they're a robot)

I'm simply saying that having a limited amount of +4 minions is detrimental to the player vs player aspect of the game; and that the minions are the only way for some people to complete the main objective; so there's a constant resources battle between team-mates rather than enemies.

Just because I disagree or agree doesn't make me open to other arguments; it's just that I've tried, or don't wish to try, most of the ones stated so far.

Both the suggestions of having timed or unbuffable heavies would make it workable (albeit with some minor problems) but it's almost certainly not technically possible.

The GP's give life to some of the weaker AT's; but make some of the stronger AT's close to invincible without certain power choices; choices that aren't realistically available to certain AT's.

Most of what I 'claim' has been backed up in evidence; whilst those that defend the GP's/Heavies have just said "Well I like them and my AT can kill them if used against me"; that's really not a blessing; just a non-curse.

Empath team-mate is just opening up for someone to be a healbot.
TP Foe I find repulsive, and worse than GPs.

3 Acc's seem like overkill; especially with Thugs.

I'd put 2 Ac/3 Dam/1 Secondary effect; Knockback/Debuff/ToHit as appropriate.

It'll serve you better

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There are other things you can try, I even mentioned one on this thread but so far that suggestion has been ignored.

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If you're talking about movement; Blasts root and suppress.
If you're talking Airsup or Disorient; shields/BF/Acrobatics.
If you're talking melee, you're within GP autokill.
If you're talking flyby; SS/autofollow blocks.
If you're talking Inspirations; a full tray of BF's gets me about 5 minutes to get kills; and turns player aggro on you.
If you're talking having a GP; they just SS away.
If you're talking camping around friendlies; they don't react fast enough unless you're slowed.

That's without taking into account the Turret's/GP's equal range; aggro memory, shoot through and your own End loss.

Strategies are not my weakpoint.

Outgunned. Taking on a Stalker from Stealth from Long distance.

Not seen me. PB/Aim/BU/Snipe;runs at me and hits me;snipe hits, next 2 shots miss him and then he kills me.
MM. Takes the first hit; Hold;Debuff; Miss Miss Miss Dead.
Brute : Shrugs off the first 4 hits; One Dot/Shot.
Corruptor/Dominator: Takes Alpha down to 1/2: Held; Debuffed; Dead.

Tanking : Smash;Smash;Smash; Full Heal; GP appears; Instadeath.

Once it's every time and you've covered every angle you can think of; time to retire.

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As for Heavies (calling them GPs is bound to confuse anyone who missed the old thread, by the way)

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Gankpuppies; coz that's what they do/act like.

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as opposed to just complaining about it from a safe distance - well know.

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Unfair 'Cel, both myself and Hammerfall have spent time in RV; it's harder to keep going back in there though when life dictates otherwise; and there's no fun to be got from it.

If I'm unable to rack up a single kill whilst doing my best; then it's going to leave me far less likely to go back in.

On playing Guild Wars, for instance, my first ever PvP team got 10 team kills in a row. Now that's gonna make me come back. Getting shredded repeatedly in two shots against a character I have stalked and outgunned will make me less likely to come back.

You don't play Poker against someone who always raises on the first round; who then flops a straight every time.

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Besides one of my original points that Heavies serve no purpose in PVP other than making the reward-grinding in RV easier.

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They are also something different that no other zone has and allows anyone to access the MM control system. How can this be a bad thing?

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Because there is no decent PvP zones over level 40 where this thing doesn't occur.

OK, figures I can deal with.

Isn't this just Empaths though? Surely you could add this to a Scrapper/Tank or a D3 Defender? or Even a GP?

Blasters 30% through can't be that powerful surely?

And given that much firepower; surely the idea would be to go for the Empath; who has to be within Blast Range of the Blaster?

But surely Blaster/Empath can be slapped by Brute/Corrupter; especially if Corrupter is Kin?

See, I'm not seeing this UBER stats as of yet.

I'd also like to direct you to Fire/Kin+Heavy; secondhand info tells me they're rather good.

As well as having to use all those spare slots on Endrecs.

OK Lexce, can you give me some rough figures on what said Blaster would be like if we're taking all buffs into account?

I've not heard about this before; and would like to see for myself.

Hmmm...you're not taking Caps into account

Brilliant Z, can't think of a thing to add.

That's why I used the GP phrase; I think both sets of Heavies are way overpowered.

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A buffed blaster can see everything, is nigh unkillable, moves fast, can kill almost everything in 4 or 5 hits.

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uh...Slight exaggeration methinks? And given CM is the only buff blasters can realistically get that stops them being held to smeg; surely that's more reason to look at giving them some defence; whilst lowering CM.

Oh I'm serious, just we tend to know when each other are using fake hostility to make a point.

RV is like three simultaneous games being played in one zone; and often one gets in the way of another.
(Farm, Control Objectives, P+EvP+E fight)

Please don't think the Syn/Weasel/Ravenswing hostility is actual hostility Bridger It's just us.

Sorry Hammer, I was just trying to get Stryker and Syn away from
"Well I can do it with this character, you must be doing it wrong"

I could easily take a certain build into RV and maim GP's; but certain other builds can't.

And TP Foe is a REALLY horrible power. First against the wall when the revoloution comes.

Fair enough Striker; can you give me a way for the following characters to take down a GP that is with a Mastermind; any variety.
If any buffs are available from their team-mates; I'll apply similar buffs to the GP/MM.

a) Energy/Energy Blaster.
b) Inv/SS Tanker
c) Empathy/Mind Controller
d) Dark/FF Defender
e) Claw/Invuln Scrapper

We'll assume the MM sees you at long range from Tactics/Assault; and has 6 minions out.

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Sounds fair to me. Everything has a counter and nothing is unbeatable.

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Problem is that said counter takes 40+ levels to build. So are you suggesting that if you're planning on going into RV; you need a 40+ toon that can Scissor the Paper?

To take Stase's suggestion (Ta Hun ), if I've only got a Scissors to level 40 and I'm playing against a team of Rocks+Paper; I can grab my PaperGP and wipe the floor with them.

Any Rocks that come at me can be wrapped, any Papers can be cut whilst they draw with the BIG paper.

Especially if there's no Scissors to be found on the other side.

Ok, one at a time.

Pack Yellows, That's along with my Blues(Counter End Drain), Greens(Keep me alive), Reds(Punchthrough), Purples(Stops me being 1.5 shotted) and BreakFrees(As I can't get hold defence) that you can't buy in zone is it?

Afking with GP's. Some heroes/villains do that. Strangely enough some people go into RV to turretwhore; that breaks the balance of the sides. GP's ARE necessary for most people to take down the Turrents, but really not for PvP. See, the Weasel Particle is only displaying one side at once.

Turrets can hit me at Sniper Range. Now as I have to get past them, or at least shoot them, that sort of breaks the possibility of staying out of range, especially if said GP is actually capturing them.

Leadership with Range : Most MM's take Leadership due to their pets. Now if Antithetix is in there, for example, I can expect to see Assault/Tactics/and something Dark and bubbly on the GP; making it harder. Something that rarely happens with normal Enemy fights in PvE; due to players not being the AI morons.

So, we can do this, this and this to beat them with these powers (Airsup etc.); Forgive me, but AirSup is PB Range, against a GP that can 1.5shot me at PB range; and if we add the Defenders powers in; we can have Darkest Night, Fulcrum Shift, Speed Boost, Accelerate Metabolism, Phantom Army, TP Foe etc. protecting it; before we even think what the other team have.

Increase Density, Speed Boost also defeats most ideas; but there's not many Kin Def/Corr is there?

Whilst the Timer idea is a good one, how do certain ATs/builds actually complete the objectives without one; whilst certain builds/AT's can tank the RVAV's with one?

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Honestly the heavies are to strong and because you can be one shotted by them, heavily tip the balence in one way or another

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Yes Heavies are too strong, takes me 2 minutes to defeat them with my Defender. Right after I drain them of endurance and use them as a football.

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Wow. You've found the weakness. It's a real shame that certain builds can't do that. Ever.

Certain builds can whomp GP. Fact.
Certain builds can only get whomped because they rely on things that GP's are strong against. Fact.

This isn't to do with whether you can be leet in PvP, it's to do with certain builds/AT's having small chance against certain builds (gameplay) and NO chance against GP's.

If you can take down a GP (with sidekicked Hero/Villain) with ANY AT, then it would be a fair comparison.

If Mr EM Brute can kill +7's, that's all very nice; but it doesn't really help when Mr Fire Tank can't kill the +4 objectives; and that's without the GP throwing him across the zone.

Now, what's Mr Fire Tank; or Ms Emp Controller, or Mrs AR blaster to do?

This really isn't a difficult point to get across, why are people not seeing it?

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I know it must be hard for you to wrap your head around, what with you coming from the Run Headlong Into +4 Heavy and Die school of thought.

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Sort of difficult when your Lessons are How to Melee 101 and Lots of things to do at PB range

Last time I was in RV; there were Stalkers I couldn't see; Heroes afking with GP's, Turrets in Alpha that could faceplant me in ten seconds and Masterminds Leadershipping their GP's with Range.

Sort of slows my PVP down a little don't you think Metatron? Adaption is the best way of dealing with this, true, but when you don't have the tools to Adapt; it's sort of tough.