SilverAgeFan
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Posts
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From a pragmatic standpoint, as I am trying to bring a realworld friend into the game, I would never start her on the trials. This is someone who is a novice when it comes to video games and pretty much uninitiated with MMOs entirely. The trials are just too hectic in this regard and it is a bit too easy to fail them (or at least miss out on badges and astral merits) if even 1 player loses the program.
Meanwhile, the original game is much more sedate and calm by comparison. A good place to learn and ramp up. I know this doesn't solve the narrative conundrum described by the OP but it is a very real pragmatic concern, one easily overlooked if you've been playing the game long enough to have a few incarnates already. -
I think the fears of teams demanding that "all y'all must be +3" are a bit unfounded. The only time I've YET seen anyone bring this up as a point of concern is when trying for a couple of the harder badges when working towards the Master of... badges.
Granted, I've not seen anyone try for the collecting then refusing to use acid or the grenade badges on the Lambda. (I assume like Keep em Separated and Strong and Pretty, both these badges are best done on separate runs.) These two badges may require--or at least be more doable with 8 or so +3's and with a MAJORITY of the league having at least tier 2 judgement.
But with so many people, just like a level 37 coming along on a quick ITF with a bunch of 50's, being a vanilla 50 is totally doable on these trials. And I've YET to see any objections. But if you are that vanilla 50, just be prepared to be a bit in the background. You won't be tanking Marauder's army and you shouldn't be pulling Siege in the same way that that level 37 character would go in second on the major fights on an ITF.
The good players--the experienced ones who are organizing many of the trials and leading them (at least on my home server)--seem to get this for the most part. There is no sign of a tone of exclusivity at this point. I'm on a smaller population server. And we sometimes have 3 trials running from pocket D at any given time--BAFs even during primetime. But just the same, leaders seem happy to get whatever warm bodies they can. As long as people are willing to listen and follow instructions from the trial leader regarding the key aspects of the trial (like using your acid power if you got one during the Lambda or being with your team in the right spot for the runner phase of the BAF). -
Quote:We had 1 full league less 1 player--so six full teams plus a team 7 that was at either 6 or 7 players.Originally Posted by fallenz
NOOOOOO! I want to enjoy the nice weather today and I missed a MS raid! NOOOOOOOO! BTW, nice job Triumph! Not bad for a "dead" server! Keep kicking butt!
I think it was the multiple simultaneous applications of judgement wot did it. -
Quote:Nah. I can get into virtue to visit my villains. We were only at 1 green dot when we died.Originally Posted by Entropy_Aegis
from the server list it looks like virtue and freedom might be next.
Hope this doesn't mean a rollback of my successful Lambda right before the raid--or those Vanguard merits as a matter of fact. -
Quote:More dots?Originally Posted by Ichigo_
More judgement.
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did we destroy the server with the sunday MS raid? too much judgement?
I can't get back in.
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Quote:What I've found to be key to getting a few tier 2's slotted on 2 characters:Originally Posted by Diellan_
I still haven't even slotted my first post-Alpha, and some people have multiple rares...
I am impressed.
Now that there are a few successful leagues forming on many servers, don't hoard that uncommon salvage. Save a couple pieces you've planned to use. But when you get some of the bonus uncommon salvage for completed objectives that are random rolls, by all means break it down into 8-10 threads.
The rate at which I've heard in league chat that rares and ultra-rares seem to be dropping--which is rare--or the fact that 8 completed trials will increasingly become possible for crafting your rare via empyrion merits--you don't need to save all those uncommon bits.
And speaking of merits--yes, we will be able to use those astral merits for something cool eventually--BUT successful trials often result in 3 more merits so those come at a decent clip. At this stage in the game, burning a stack of 10-12 astral merits has been worth it for my post-alpha unlocks.
Just my take on it currently. (Though I may change my tune if I see that 100 astral merits will buy me some neat costume unlock on my entire account or some other such shiney!)
Edit: oh and btw, congrats to the OP! Was on a small team Lambda (9 people) and we got pretty darned far considering that for four folks, it was their first one ever. And having even on level shift on the league made a huge difference. -
Quote:I know. I was looking at the two additional badges required for the Master of Lambda accolade and got excited about giving that a whirl in due course.Originally Posted by Obitus
That said, once most people have the level shifts (and the high-DPS pets and huge stacking buffs that come with them) and Judgement nukes, it ought to be easy to beat Marauder even without using the Acid temps.
Speaking of which, not sure I understand the Strong and Pretty badge (or something like that) for the BAF. You need to defeat the AV's with no ambushes standing? So it's just a matter of timing then? -
Quote:And not a singular groundpunch like the alternative animation for foot stomp (which I love)--but a ground "PUNCHPUNCHPUNCHPUNCHPUNCH" sort of thing...Originally Posted by Benchpresser
But yes... a Groundpunch opotion would be superb!!
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Quote:Ah thanks for the work around till it's fixed!Originally Posted by Demobot
Yep, bug. You have to change something else on your costume for the color change to take effect.
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Interesting thread. Been wondering what to do for one of my more naturally tanker types.
I hope we'll get a weapons based judgement and might looking judgement eventually, similar to how they've hinted at other Lore trees eventually.
Would love to see a PBAoE power that pummels the ground with knock up and stun chances on one side of the tree. Or as I was telling a friend earlier, your character cannonballs onto the ground shaking it and everyone nearby.
Till then an effectless as possible void power may need to do the trick for one of mine. -
Not finding this listed elsewhere, but probably a known bug:
Just tried to recolor my destiny power. The interface works fine at the tailor. Can save the power template. And can reload it onto other costumes BUT...
Once I leave the tailor the power recolor is simply not taking -
Quote:On runs that I've lead, or helped lead, we actually instruct ALL members to call out "Acid" or "Grenade" in league chat when they get one. It may not be entirely necessary but it is one of those managerial tricks that puts a bit of onus on all members to PAY ATTENTION when each destructible gets popped and allows leaders to make some mental notes as to who has gotten what. Once someone has called it out, they now have registered: "Oh--I DO have an acid power. Better pay attention when we get instructed to use it." Even on their first time through.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Seriously I often wonder if those things are bugged in terms of dropping cause on many failed runs the leader has asked who has them and NO ONE responds.
After reading this I think it's just the general dumbness of PUGs. A way to make it obvious that you got it would be great.
During that time, on these runs, all other coordinating chat is kept in the team channel as we tend to split up by teams, coming together only if one side finishes their side first and then helps out with the side that is still not 10/10. The only other league chat you may see at this time are words of encouragement or the occasional reminder that a hospital is in zone. -
Quote:We're not talking Assemble Team, correct? But rather the fourth tier power from the teleport pool? (I ask in part because it is the latter I am most interested in and the former is currently amongst the many greyed out vet and temp powers on these trials)Originally Posted by Chyll
In Beta at one point we had some success with a high-stealth (or stalker) with super speed finding a crate and then team porting everyone in hot at the location where they focus on the crate.
the stealther moves on, finds a new location, and then hot ports the team as soon as they've cleared the object to the new location.
was not tried enough to offer a judgement of its efficacy, but it is a strategy to consider.
Speaking of which, I've wondered if a support character with that very same power couldn't be of great aid with the localized super special AoE powers, like marauder's in the Lambda or those orbital swords in Apex.
Edit to add: Having had some problems with non-travel power incarnates (post ninja run and craftable/buyable jetpacks), those guns around the Lambda courtyard are another place that Teleport Team might actually be of some marginal use. -
Quote:And perhaps be a different color scheme than most anything else--some sort of special two or three color temp power icon that if you are looking through your tiny icon power list to drag it to a tray--it stands out.Originally Posted by Arilou
Yeah, something like that.
(Another MMORPG had a small square above your regular powers tray for these kinds of powers, something like that)
This way leaders can add one more bit of information: "the temp power icons are red, gold and blue. Can't miss 'em" Or something like that. -
Quote:Or brought up a new temporary power popup window or something? A special tray that can only hold trial powers? Or on your compass like meteor fragments do during a shivan run? (Though this may just confuse some folks)Originally Posted by Arilou
It would be nice if the grenades/acids either showed up on a special "plot relevant power" icon, or at least was grouped in a separate place from your other 15+ temp powers.
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Quote:Sounds like a great system. But the one problem we've been running into consistently is what can politely be described as "human error." There always seems to be at least on person on the acid team who swears they have no acid temp powers but basically they haven't looked, didn't listen, may still be learning, have a strange sense of humor or are simply not the right height to ride the loopy ride at the county fair.Originally Posted by Quasadu
I find it easiest to designate one person to get all the acids and one to get all the grenades. Make sure everyone knows who to give their temps to, and when you're in the bunker about to head out to face Marauder, have them all give their temps to the designated people. Then one person can go seal the doors while everyone else deals with Marauder and his buddies.
Some of those people may know who they are reading this post. If you're still just learning, that's cool. But it's those last two categories and their ilk that longterm bother me. I'd hate for these trials to become more exclusive in terms of the good leaders on our server putting together leagues and refusing to invite player X or Y because they just don't listen. In something like a mothership raid or even a TF, the Leroy Jenkinses of the world can at least come along for the ride. Their debt is their own doing. But failed trials thanks to one Leroy? Ugh.
Again, no design can totally eliminate this. I realize that. It's just been our biggest consistent challenge. -
Quote:Wendy, you on the other hand absolutely have gotten my point and did a fine job there in the middle articulating my myriad technical concerns.Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
I think you are sort of missing the point of the OP
...<stuff>...
I think they be wise to stay with Threads for the next power sets.. If they want to come up with some new components for the new powers fines! The trials only offer up one random component anyway so i doubt anyone would really care. But they need to increase what we can do to earn threads NOT come out with another whole new system we need to adapt to.
The only thing new to me is your mention that Apex and Tin Mage tf's drop threads? They do? At a comparable rate to the trials? Do baddies there still drop shards as well? (I did get one odd shard drop during a Lambda the other night. I was like "threa--awwwww." )
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Quote:Hadn't thought of blackstar, which admittedly is a rarely used power on my defender.Originally Posted by Chyll
Yep, yep.
I've found blackstar nuke's -to-hit to be useful. Sleet's KD is handy. Other similar powers are just excellent.
Also some of the rarely used offensive intangibility powers would be good--but likely AFTER blowing the tank/crate up. Need to dust one or two of those off. I know my dark defender has black hole or whatever it is called. Though that panic button hasn't been used in AGES!
Edit: to clarify, if you used something like black hole on a group around a crate or tank, you risk also making the destructible object untouchable as well for the duration, correct?
Edit 2: a challenge to other players willing to think outside of the box: 3 astral merits to the first person who can describe a successful strategy that employs either group fly or team teleport to speed up and make either of these trials more efficient. This may sound like a joke, but I'm serious. There was a remark a ways back about the devs trying to design some of the new challenges with the more "situational" (read: often skipped and lampooned!) powers in mind. Curious as to how far they'll go.
Edit 3: fear powers may be a good thing here in phase 2 of the lambda trial. I have a tanker with the AoE fear power from presence on him for concept/giggles purposes. Haven't tried this yet with him though. -
Hopefully a fix will be short on coming.
Speaking of which, any word on what the patch with maintenance is fixing? Lots of bugs on release day. Hoping it squashes at least a few of them. -
Quote:Similarly, these raids/trials/"omnipresent"ing-but-still-currently-fun-failfests for me play quite differently than most the rest of the game. One thing I will praise the devs for here is not being too precious with their 7 year old game and risking breaking it a little to continue exploring what play inside this particular MMO gamespace can feel like.Originally Posted by Clouded
It's not unheard of for devs to change their mind. Perhaps their datamining showed reasonable evidence to support a raid or grind style end game. So far, they were right.
Now if they could just get the bugs worked out so I stopped getting booted from raids...
I realize that in some ways, according to many others who are much more avid MMO players and have experienced a wider range of competing titles, Paragon is following some trends in MMO play design and innovations that came after initial release of CoX. But it feels like they are now poised to push that envelop a little more to see what works and what doesn't with subsequent trial/raid/thingies.
So as a non-farmer traditionally, I am glad they seem to have changed their mind and are exploring more complex and varied strategical challenges with these trials. For the longest time, challenge in any MMO, including this one in particular meant big-bag-o-hitpoints. Greater challenge then meant big-bag-o-hitpoints with stupid amounts of regen and resist. Short of getting a full blown physics engine in game that would allow new sorts of environmental challenges, this seems about the best they can do to explore and hopefully land on some new classics in terms of game design.
And if/when there ever is a CoX 2, hopefully all this will be taken into mind when starting fresh and designing that fourth or fifth generation MMO. -
Quote:The turret badge & astral merit combo is in the BAF. Those turrets are disabled with a simple glowie. But by all means on a Lambda, as far as I'm aware, go for it during the untimed phase and assault them big guns boom!Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
So a first successful Lambda run (without disabling turrets) will give four Astral Merits and one Empyrean Merit, while a second successful Lambda run (in the same vein) will give five Astral Merits.
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Quote:Learning to get 10 out of 10 acids is pretty key to completing this trial successfully based upon my experience. (That and having teammates who actually put the acid in their power tray and then use it ASAP when phase 3--been on many runs where it seems some player must be willfully refusing to use at least 2 of the acid drops!)Originally Posted by IanTheM1
I've yet to get an Astral Merit from the Security Bot. And I've yet to be on a team that can manage more than about five of either temp power, which seems rather prohibitive compared to the BAF.
We were moving too slow inside the map at first. To do this successfully, it seems one really needs to become familiar with where the containment tanks are on the map and move from tank to tank to tank. Having someone with sleep, confuse, close to unresistable stun or even an ice tanker with ice patch is pretty key to being able to swoop in as a team, blow the tank and then run off to the next tank. Because of the level difference, long duration soft control seems better than hard control here. -
Quote:It's what we've been working towards on my home hero server. And a great summary based on my experiences thus far.Originally Posted by Lobster
Hope that helps
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Biggest problem we've been running into: people not listening and not tracking when they have gotten the acid power. Every Lambda that I've been on has earned at least 50% over the number of acids actually used. So on the two that successfully closed all the portals, we easily earned 15 that someone on one of the two teams did not use. Even if they were obtained during phase 2.
*shrug* Frustrating at moments but still having fun. -
Quote:Back to my OP, my point is simply I would like the option to mix and match which of say 4 or 6 trials I am running as I strive to get enough threads on my five or so incarnates to craft the new enhancements. Even the tier 1's.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
More Trials will be added, starting in I21 - and the Coming Storm will also be Trial based
Two days in and I am thoroughly enjoying the grind. A year from now if I get one or two more new incarnates, I don't want to be staring down the BAF and Lambda trials going "Oh... that's STILL the only way to get the native components for my Lore, Judgment, Destiny and Interface slots."
Who knows, maybe they'll make the next trials and slots backwards compatible with additional recipes as there are now for the alpha slots. But it seems that by that point the system is going to be quite cumbersome to navigate. And since you can't simply convert shards or threads to the right salvage directly from the recipe interface (A BAD DESIGN DECISION LONGTERM IMO), I'm sure a number of people will be blowing 20 or more threads, dingii or dohickies along the way converting then to the wrong piece of randomly named semi-genre relevant salvage bits.
Again to be clear about i20 though: I have had a great time thus far playing the new content. These trials feel more like self contained minigames. Which is an interesting change of pace.