Sesshu

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I think PVP is like playing Poker. You never will be any good at it until defeat (money) means nothing to you.

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I probably understand what you are saying here, but as a semi-professional poker player (in NJ and now CA casinos) I must say that one will never be good at poker if one's goal is to win money. One's goal should be to play properly/correctly. The "winning the money part" will take care of itself when one plays to play properly/correctly.

I've seen too many out of towners not willing to be patient enough to play properly, or to leave when stuck, and they wind up playing marginal hands vs. my superior hands and then curse their "bad luck" and my tight play. I can loosen up when needed, but not when my opponents play superfast all the time. They proceed to play 48-72 hours in a row trying to get even or ahead before they head home and their play deteriorates and they begin to blunder badly. I go home when tired, come back rested and refreshed, and they are still there, tired and groggy, bleeding their money away even faster.

They play to make a score, they play to win money. I play to play correctly, that's why I win the money. It can be noted that, given one's point of view, playing to win the money can mean playing to pay correctly (since that's what wins the money).

As for your "money means nothing" attitude: I understand that too. I try to play as if I'm watching myself play over my shoulder. I imagine I'm watching someone else play. I'm great at figuring out the range of hands the players hold, usually I can tell when a player should fold, but calls regardless.

But when I play and get too emotionally involved, I miss a lot of stuff. I get too emotional, I overlook things. So I try to play as if I'm a stranger and I'm watching that stranger play. That keeps me distant, and yet involved enough to be able to read the hands better.

Perhaps what Sammy Farra said (and remember he plays tournament poker mainly: no-limit), "In order to live you have to be prepared to die." I think this is what you mean.

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The problem is it still has characters vs other characters and ever since I started D&D way back in 1980, I have never seen any good come from this. I gave PvP a try in these games anyway, since I was hoping it might have more of a point and less of the attitude that some of the people I played with way back then had, but it's actually worse since there is no GM to intervene.

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I understand that competition may not be your cup of tea, and I respect that. Or, you may only like your competition in controlled circumestances. However, I can say that unlike you I have seen buckets of good come from it, and enjoyed it.

On a tangent, why do so many here worry about the attitudes of the competition? Who cares what a bunch of pixels say? There are numerous tools in the game to ignore people - if you find they are getting under your skin, tune them out and just play in peace.

There's an old trick to public speaking about imagining your audience in their underwear. A related one in-game is to imagine your opposition as a bunch of children. It's really hard to get annoyed because children are teasing you.

-Jeff

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I can usually do that. But sometimes... you meet a brat that needs a severe mauling... like... pull him out of the monitor and into your room... surpriiiize!!!... then stomp on this back till it breaks and blood spurts out of his mouth (like Homer Simpson did to the brat in "Day of the Locust")... then shove the dying bastich back through the monitor to wherever he came from... then mommy says, "Oh dear, looks like Johnny wised off again... and this time to the wrong guy."

One less wiseguy in the world And the Hollywood mob will tear me to pieces like they did Homer Simpson (if they can find my IP address... muwahahaha).

I know. It's evil. But it's a nice fantasy, depending on your point of view.