Sentry4

Hi Shield-Strength, if you're interested in learning about PvP, we've got a beginner friendly channel/SG/VG on Virtue.

Here's the main thread about it, with a bit of an introduction.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=290219

We hold events for those who are almost strictly PvE looking to learn how to PvP. Then we hold events where you use what you've learned.

While SS/Invul can be strong as in hard to kill, the mechanics in PvP (Travel Suppression slowing you down) along with lag not allowing you to connect hits, and little range to switch targets and contribute damage with the team as effectively, I would not recommend an SS/invul. This is coming from someone who mained an SS/invul brute for over 2 years in PvP. It can be fun sometimes, but with the current state of PvP I could not be as effective as a ranged character.

That being said, I would recommend a ranged character of some type, or a stalker. Being in hide is somewhat like pseudo range, since your opponent can't attack you until you attack them. This allows you a free big melee attack, giving stalkers enough burst to be useful for spikes.

By the end of today, our leaders will have decided upon times for the upcoming events. I'm thinking, 1 event the same as we had (for beginners), 1 that's a little advanced (tricks for those who PvP) and 1 that's actually PvP (Most likely kickball with leaders as the leaders).

Hopefully you can come join us, we're always open to those interested in PvP.

I would agree with assault if it didn't take any endurance, but I feel it's a bit too heavy for the gain. It's already pretty end heavy, I find poison always is.

For Incarnates in the above build, I point to this post.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...15&postcount=3

It's about Dark/Poison, but they are extremely similar to Dark/Colds. You can skip the part about Alkaloid as you don't have it. The part about Life drain is relevant though.

For Alpha, I've got Cardiac for yours. It goes well with less expensive builds (+range and no end problem).

Alright, Dark/Cold build. These were once one of the most popular corruptors for dueling before Poison was transfered to Cors.

The reason is simple. [Benumb] and [Weaken] from both /cold and /poison respectively have a debuff that's -special. -Special is pretty unique.

When you put an enhancement into your power, say a +tohit IO in tactics, it boosts the amount of tohit tactics gives you. -Special is a handful of those enhancements but work in the negatives. For example, if tactics gives 10%, and I enhance it by 20% from an IO, I'll have 12% tohit. If I get hit for -20% special, Tactics will only give me 10% tohit.

[Benumb]'s -special debuffs the follow...

-55.875% Str(Stunned, Sleep, Confused, Terrorized, Immobilized, Held, Knockback, Knockup, Repel) for 30s
-55.875% Str(SpeedRunning, SpeedFlying, Heal, ToHit) for 30s
-55.875% Str(All Defense Types, Defense, Melee Defense, Ranged Defense, AOE Defense) for 30s

The reason people use Dark with /cold or /poison is because you can stack on -tohit while debuffing their tohit 'enhancement' in powers. Hitting a target with Benumb may make their tactics go from giving them +15% tohit to +2% tohit. It can be that powerful.

Another tip, is that +special enhances both +special and -special. This means that using Power boost would increase those -55.875 percents to something greater. Around -94.146%.

This means, you want to get Power boost. There are 2 options, one is Power boost from Soul Mastery and the other is Power Build Up from Power Mastery. Power boost from Soul Mastery recharges faster, and for that reason alone I would recommend that one.

As I've mentioned some of the above posts (I believe what was taught in the last session), every squishy needs both Super Speed and Super Jump. They also need tactics. If they get a +def shield from their mastery, they need Tough. If they have a +res shield from their mastery (Like Soul does), they pick up Phase shift.

This means you'll have Super speed, Super Jump, Tactics and Phase.

Some critiques to your build and for anyone else.

-God mode powers (Force of Nature) are never good on squishies. You may get +5% to +10% resistance. It's not worth the crash.
-Worth noting that Acrobatics usually only has 1 slot (1 end reduc)
-Tactics and all +tohit powers should have 5 adjusted targeting IOs (Very cheap, good bonuses)
-Also, make sure your +res shield (Temp invul) is well slotted for end reduc/Res
-No build should ever lack Hibernate or Phase
-2 +res shields. The second +res shield will only every give 3%-5% resistance. Not worth the end or power pool choice


Aside from that, with it just being slots, it doesn't look that bad.

If your budget is around 500 million (As you said earlier ingame), I would suggest a build like this.

Just recently, Virtue has been taking in those who want to learn more about PvP and teaching them the basics as well as advanced classes.

Here is the thread.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=290219

You could sit in and watch demonstrations on any level character, although when it's finally time to practice, you'll require a level 50.

This is currently only on Virtue, as it's our hope to get the population up there. Feel free to join the channel or send me a message ingame.

Using the above build, looks like at Rebirth VS Incan. This is for all Dark/Poisons too, not just the above build.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

No Power boost, No Incan

Life drain = 88.07% enhancement + 4% enhancement (Doc wounds bonus) = 92.07% enhancement = DRed to 78.23% enhancement.

Base heal = 107.1 = enhanced as 107.1 * (1+0.7823) = 190.9 Heal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Power boost

Power boost = 78.67% special, DRed to 68.49% special
Working off the base heal, 107.1 * (0.6849) = 73.35

Base heal = 107.1 = enhanced to 190.9 heal = Power boosted to 190.9 + 73.35 = 264.24 Heal

Without Incan, Life drain heals you 190.9 normally and 264.24 with PB

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Incan

Life drain = 190.9 * (1.8) = 343.6 Heal
Power boosted = 264.24 * (1.8) = 475 Heal

With Inca, Life drain heals you 343.6 normally and 475 with PB

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Skipping the math already done by Alkaloid

-No Incan-
Normal = 376.6 Heal
Power boosted = 516.2 Heal

-Incan-
Normal = 677.9 Heal
Power boosted = 929.12 (Wow that's not bad).



Rebirth is a 857 heal with +regen that also heals your teammates every 2 minutes.

If I remember right, I think I saw barrier's poison with Incan, and he probably knows more about them than I do. So I would go incan. My poison has rebirth since he isn't dark/ and also lacks power boost (Team build).


I have heard that the best Dark/Poisons take both Diagmanetic Interface and Reactive Interface depending on who they are fighting. Which opponent deserves which is unknown to me. Considering Power boosted weaken + dark attacks, I would go Reactive personally.

You've already chosen your alpha, and my build above uses the same one.

I would use Pyronic as your judgement.

Lore doesn't matter, although I've noticed lately how useful Carnies can be for zone. The carnie buffing pet lasts 5 minutes and recharges in 10 minutes. She grants Forge, giving 20% tohit and 15% damage every minute for 5 minutes. I've also noticed that she gives it to you one last time right before despawning, meaning you've got +20% tohit and +15% damage for 6 minutes of every 10 minutes. 60% uptime is pretty nice.

Also, to answer your earlier question, yes, Incan takes away heal decay. If you fight in the arena often (As PvP Redux will), this won't be as much as an advantage if HD is turned off (as it should be).

If you get some more money, I would start throwing in some gladiator's javelin procs for more damage. Hope this build works out for you, and good luck.

Lucky, I tried to stay around the same budget that the original build you posted had.

Here are some changes in point form

-You were missing the Kismet +6%, this is as important as tactics. Tohit 15.8 --> 21.8
-Not enough range (Dark Blast from 96 --> 128)
-Not enough ACC (25% --> 47%). Even then I would suggest higher, but you're poison so you should be fine. More accuracy would mean it would need purples and cost more
-Power boost comes up much more often than Power Build Up
-Other build lacked any mez for rads/darks etc aside from a melee attack and long recharging dark pit
-Stamina should always have some high %, be it 4 performance or 3 performance + 1 end mod IO
-Same recharges
-Slightly more HP


The build you posted was fine, I just think you tried to frankenslot too much. I learned a long time ago that the best slotting usually involved frankenslotting either 3 and 3 or 4 and 2 for bonuses.

If you were really set on Power Mastery, that's an option. I just think Soul goes really well with Dark/Poison.

As for incarnates, I'll do another post with the numbers. Here's the build.

Great turnout guys. We started PvP Redux only a couple days ago and had 18 people show up for the event. We all went to the arena and showed some different demonstrations, taught what powers to take, and the difference between PvE/PvP.

For those who missed it, we've got leaders willing to fill you in (as well as the list below). For those who were there, here is a quick review to remember what was taught. We covered...

-PvP in CoH is strictly team based
-Necessity for everyone to focus on 1 target
-Importance of Movement/Evading
-Per the last point, the necessity of Super Speed/Super Jump
-Disadvantages of Fly/Teleport
-How to fight Melee toons
-How to fight Ranged toons
-How to dodge stalkers
-Using the environment to break line of sight
-Importance of waiting for backup
-How to survive ganks (Hibernate/Phase)
-How to stop people from surviving ganks with Hibernate/Phase (Spike damage)
-How mez changes from PvE to PvP (15 second Mez timer)
-How confuse has a separate mez timer
-Importance of Accuracy (never too much accuracy)
-42 KB protection for squishies (Karma KB prot, Steadfast KB prot, BotZ KB prot, Acrobatics)
-Typical builds for ranged toons (SS/SJ/Tactics)
-How, as a rule of thumb, a squishy should -only- have 1 +res shield (Tough -or- epic shield, never waste power choices on both)



What we forgot

-Typical Incarnate choices
-Importance of +Hp
-Defense on Squishy toons
-Acrobatics needed


We also had a little bit of FFA after, and as I type this we have some participating in RV. We will hold another event soon to teach this same lesson to those who missed it or who are new, as well as a new course for those who attened or understand this one.

Went very well, and the leaders could tell people were changing their playstyles to match a PvP setting.

Thanks to Red-Energy, Greenteck and Undercover Toy for helping with their advice.
Well done guys.

In his sig he has this...

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...=0&output=html

Once ingame, typed /getglobalname Gangland Masque (random Virtue toon of his).

Chat handle '@Masque' is not online, hidden, or does not exist.

There you go.

I'm willing to to pay 20 mill per Discipline and 250 mill per Iron Will.

I'm willing to negotiate, especially adding on a bonus for bulk. PST me ingame or on the forums.


I understand with Bounty from Siren's Call a player can get medium Strength of Wills, but I don't need those.

Thanks.

For those interested in learning, teaching, practicing or teaming for PvP on Virtue. I'll direct you to this thread.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=290219

I will update both this thread and the main thread with events.

Currently at 5:00 PM PST/7:00 PM CST/8:00 PM EST today (May 26th) there will be a small event on Virtue in Recluse's Victory and the arena in order to teach PvP basics.

Although the event is for beginners, more experienced players may come to help out, teach or relearn the basics of teaming and PvP.

Thank you.

Short notice, I know, but today there is a small event at 5:00 PM PST (8:00 PM EST) for the members of PvP Redux, or anyone who would be willing to join, to learn the basics of RV and PvP.

We will be showing heavy spots, getting people comfortable with the zone, go into arena, go over ATs, different roles, practice hitting stuff and have a couple top level players to answer any questions.

This event is mostly for beginners, but also open to everyone, to either relearn the basics or help teach.


That's today, Saturday May 26th, at 5:00 PM PST/7:00 PM CST/8:00 PM EST in Recluse's Victory, accessible from Atlas. PST me or contact me for any details or questions about the event.

As I am posting this, the time is 1:54 EST, and the event is in roughly 6 hours.

CURRENT EVENTS:
To be scheduled

Zone Night is held every thursday night at 5PM(PST), 7PM(CST), 8PM(EST) for those who have a bit of experience PvPing or anyone who has attended some of the PvP Redux classes. Bring any toon, any side and have some fun on your toons.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To those who are new to the thread...

Hello Virtue, I am an 8 year vet who started PvPing back in issue 4 with arenas, and I've been PvPing ever since.

With the multiple threads being created as to what it would take to get more people interested in PvP, a handful of close friends and I have created a new channel and SG/VG.

'PvP Redux' is an open Virtue PvP channel and SG/VG for anyone interested in PvP or anyone who has never been able to get the hang of PvP.

A lot of PvP is started by walking into a PvP zone up against builds on unlimited budgets and players with years of experience. Walking into an unknown zone, running around solo and getting killed a lot has stopped people from getting comfortable with PvP.

Here at PvP Redux, we know exactly what's necessary to get people comfortable with PvP and possibility finding a new and enjoyable feature in CoX.

---Important notes recapped at the end---

1. Toxic Environment --> Friendly Environment

The biggest problems with PvP, and the biggest complaints, are the harsh words and/or actions thrown from one player to another. The attitude of a lot of today's players is to never teach anyone in fear of it coming back at them later, and to put down others simply because they believe it will eliminate opponents early.

Little do they know, this is really harming PvP. In PvP Redux, we understand that the peak of PvP in CoX was only attainable by an open community that shared everything with each other. The more I teach others, the better they are, the more I fight them, the better I am. This is a very basic principle for PvP Redux. This is an enforced rule in PvP Redux. Little jabs are understandable in a competitive environment, but if any member wants it to stop, or words become too harsh and personal, the player will be dealt with accordingly.


2. Thrown into PvP --> Practice

Someone who has just started PvP or hasn't PvPed very much should not be thrown up against people who have been PvPing for years. Unfortunately, this is the first experience many have with PvP. We're set on changing this. We hold events and practices to help people learn the PvP game, help people with builds, let people get comfortable with different situations and how to deal with different opponents.

We hold multiple events for teaching purposes, as well as small events just for the fun of it. There are -no- prizes currently, as the purpose is to have fun, rather than do anything in order to win. If we have enough good players trained up, we may be able to have some small tournaments with small prizes to help their next PvP toon.


3. Solo --> Part of a team

The beauty of CoH is that it is both a solo based and team based MMO. While I love being able to choose how to deal with PvE, PvP is strictly a team-based game. There is no question about it. While you can be solo, you'll be up against people who are in teams. In PvP Redux, we focus more on the aspect of working with other heroes or villains to achieve results. We may touch on 1v1s later, but once it becomes 1v1, egos start to develop and that is when a toxic environment is created. A player's worth is determined by their usefulness to the team, and their contribution to the kill score, rather than their own kill score.

Ranged toons are prefered for events and practices, but any melee characters built to contribute (Eagles Claw big hitter, Web grenade, Taunt etc.) are also free to come.
We recommend you bring a ranged character or stalker as most of the melee ATs aren't as easily compatible with teams in PvP.


4. Unaware of teammates --> Communitcation

Communication is key. Going off on your own or going for the wrong target is what can cost lives (Well, hospital trips). The key to PvP is communication. A single blaster on SOs throwing a couple attacks at the called target is infinitely more useful than the IOed blaster in a scrapperlock against someone else. Another good feature of team based PvP is that all it takes is listening in order to be useful. A single flares attack at the right second, at the right target, can be the difference between a kill or a failed spike.

Voice communication is the real secret behind good teams in PvP. We understand not everyone has a microphone or feels comfortable. Luckily only hearing the team through the speakers or headphones is good enough. The important thing is to listen to the target being called, as it's easier to call the targets name than target them using a macro.
Currently we only use skype, but we'll be incorperating a vent and mumble server soon.


5. Closed Environment --> Sharing Community

I touched on this a little above, and it goes together well with the Friendly Environment, but this point deserves it's own explanation. PvP Redux understands that if we want PvP to thrive and have active members, we need to share our knowledge with everyone so that everyone becomes a better player. There is no "title" for the best player, but rather there is pride to teaching people to PvP really well. Respect is given to the person who has personally trained 8 PvPers into a deadly force, not the individual who challenges everyone to duels and trashtalks.

The more practicing and training with each other, the better. As soon as egos are developed, people are only willing to fight against people they know they will win against. This is a major problem, as regardless of the side effects of only fighting people worse than you, it means there are -less- matches going on. The less fights, the less practice, the less comfortable people are, the less experienced people get.

We encourage friendly battles, randomly calling on some members of PvP Redux and making your own friendly events, inviting whomever you'd like.

---Important notes---

-This is strictly Virtue only
-We typically use the arena
-We will always have Travel Suppression and Heal Decay disabled
-Inspirations will be used, and taught how to be used
-We encourage ranged characters
-Rude or trolling players will be kicked instantly
-Small jabs in a competitive environment are fine if not actually hurtful
-This is Virtue, do not make fun of RPers
-Vet players, do not kill beginners -without letting them know why they died and how to improve-
-There are currently no prizes for any events
-This is a learning environment, not a competitive event
-PvP Redux is all about teams and communication
-We use skype, feel free to join our calls, we'll use Vent/Mumble in the future
-We encourage friendly fights
-We answer all questions
-We help with PvP builds



At PvP Redux, you'll find very reasonable and respectable leaders running everything.

There is no responsibility to show up to practices or events, everything is -optional-. A player moves at his or her own pace, and will not be kicked for inactivity.

The primary goal of PvP Redux is to get players interested in PvP again. You'll find that your leaders at PvP Redux are top players who can answer every question.

Feel free to send me a message ingame, on the forums, or join the channel.

Type /Chanjoin PvP Redux in order to join.

I will be updating this thread with the newest events each time one is held. Thank you.

The KB to KD proc is really weak justification that KB is bad. I have no doubt some people will try to use it, but as long as it's not accepted by the general community, it's just another line you have to read by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

I used to get kicked for my KB on teams, when I was inexperienced. Once I knew what I was doing with KB, I've never been kicked since.

I have no doubt that some leaders kick players with any KB at all. That number isn't very high. If someone is getting repeatedly kicked because of their KB, you can bet they're using it incorrectly and slowing down the speed of the team. I've kicked people that've spread the mobs before, but only after multiple warnings and advice on how to improve the team. Then again, I was kicking moreso because they wouldn't listen to the team leader. It's the same as getting an acid on a nade only SLAM. Can't follow instructions = kicked.

There are simple ways to ultilize KB effectively to improve the team. It's easy for people to tell when they have baddies KBed towards them for speed, KB angled for KD, or KB to save a teammate.


Not to sound rude, but I'd rather the game features in this game -not- be limited by stupid people and their inexperience/arrogance. They are not the majority and the game is not supposed to cater towards them.

More people want this proc than not, and that's reason enough for it's release.

It's worth noting that the type of logic used here to defend Fire as the overly best option for corruptors can also be used to argue that everyone here should be playing SS/Fire brutes instead.

I don't feel gimped using a corruptor over an SS/Fire brute for the same reason I don't feel gimped using anything other than fire/ on corruptors.

In my experience on trials, I've never seen one corruptor massively outshine every other combo. Some are more useful than others, but that usually comes down to skill, and being in the right place in the right time, hitting the right target.

If anything, the difference of primaries doesn't matter nearly as much as the difference a /Kin brings to the team than a /Poison.



I'd also agree with ClawsandEffect. I feel I contribute a lot more on my ranged toons than melee toons, for the simple reason that I get more attacks in while the melees have to run around everywhere.

Both Cold and Poison took /rads title for controllers in PvP.

That being said, it's still good, definitely.

Illusion's nice in PvP. The damage healed back by the decoys was taken out because it was messing with heal decay, effectively making the decoys do 3x as much damage than in PvE.

Rad and therm are 2 nice debuffing sets with heals, which cold and poison lack, making them each viable for different reasons. With travel suppression, rad toggles are also a pseudo slow, since your enemy can't run very fast with any toggles on them.

Reactive interface would really help your decoys damage. Rebirth or Incan would help you survive. All the other incarnates could vary depending on your play style.

Good luck with the build, I've seen a couple vicious Ill/rads in the past couple months.

The important thing to know about regens is that their survivability is exponetial. Each addition in survivability multiplies their total survivability by an amount dependent on the size of the existing survivability.

As an example, let's imagine /Regens only have Reconstruction and Dull Pain. The fight would end quickly. When necessary, they would use Reconstruction/Dull Pain/Reconstruction, in that order. They would have no powers recharged, and die.

Let's put MoG in the mix. Now they have Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon. By adding 1 power, they've really added 2 into their chain because MoG gives the regen time to get the other heals back.

Add in IH, you've got Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/IH/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon. Adding 1 power had literally doubled the survivability chain.

Regens now have access to Barrier, Hibernate, Burnout. Not to mention that now it is on brutes, the only weakness the /regen has (killing it in a gap in their chain) is much harder to abuse. They have so much HP (Brute cap, 3202) that it's near impossible to wear them down. The +HP also increases their survivability by a multiple.

The current Regen brute chain is around....

Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/Barrier/Recon/IH/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/DEMONIC/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/IH/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon
/BURNOUT/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/IH/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/HIBERNATEorPHASE/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon.

I've done a lot more research and data collection on Fight Club than I wish I could admit. That is the exact chain used by myself and other vet regen players in fight club matches.
That is usually wear the chain ends, it takes over 20 minutes of straight damage to kill a Regen Brute factoring in healing yourself. Then again, hit them with heat loss and see how long they last. Debuffs seem to be the only option.

I'd fought some of the best Regen Brutes with my Claw/regen. What most people don't know is that melee characters actually have higher damage than ranged characters, but only if the target stands still. I couldn't even get a fire blaster to the DPS my claw/regen could pump out (Over 200, factoring resistance, procs, crits etc). Blasters have much better burst, but killing something like a tank, a scrapper or brute can accomplish faster.




To your question, no, there isn't a melee set that can defeat a SS/Regen brute without using an exploit (I know of 3 that have killed regens using something broken). If the fight clubbers decided to be smart, they'd ban /regen and /mace mastery with spiders. Invul, Elec, WP, Dark, SR, EA, Fire and Shield are all balanced really well. I'm not even sure which I'd roll if I got back into it. Regen is an outlier, and while it has always been good, it hasn't been this stupidly good in the past. They're unkillable now.


Also, to the PvP community, -this- is the exact reason I started playing ranged instead of melee. I'm really glad I switched over. I'd suggest playing ranged instead of melee for everyone. Ranged allows more teamwork, and just like PvE, a team of squishies is much more effective than a team of scrappers or brutes. Make some friends, jump on vent or skype, IO some squishies and have fun.