Sarrate

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To my knowledge DoT abilities cannot crit

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Your knowledge is wrong. DoT powers can crit, but they only check once and for the sum of the power. When Shadow Maul crits, it does all of the damage for the entire power in a single burst. Individual increments of a DoT cannot proc, but all of the powers can and do. This is the same reason why Midnight Grasp crits are bigger than the initial hit: the crit accounts for the extra damage that is applied over time.

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On the other hand, powers with bonus dots do not crit. For example, Whirling Sword or Fire Melee crits don't include dots (sans Incinerate).

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You say that WP's def resistance will slow down the cascade... slower than not being attacked as frequently like a Regen due to the lack of a taunt aura? I'd completely disagree. (Remember, this started from a comment about the ITF, not solo, so that's the angle I'm approaching this from.)

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That's also assuming that there's not a Brute or Tanker nearby that's taunting those targets as well. Unless you're letting lose with AoEs like crazy, it's more like for the Brute or Tanker to have aggro on those targets than you.

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Okay, in that case, why should any Scrapper be in danger of dying? The Tanker/Brute has aggro, AoEs are the only thing the Scrappers would need to survive.

Let's be honest, how often does it happen that extra mobs aren't pulled, or the Tank hits the aggro cap, or that Scrappers try to clean up loose mobs, or the team splits, etc. Ideally none of these would happen, but from my experience they are not rare by any means.

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My problem with that is how fast defense cascades.

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Def debuff resistance like */wp has won't prevent a def debuff cascade, but it will slow it down. Debuff resistance is only meant to trivialize a specific debuff in a few circumstances (*/SR and */SD come to mind). For everyone else, the purpose is to reduce the end effect or slow down the catastrophic arrival of the cascade.

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What I'm saying is defense cascades so fast the def resistance may as well not even be there. Under normal situations where def debuffs exist, but aren't in practically every attack, I'd agree. In this case, there's just too much of it to matter.

You say that WP's def resistance will slow down the cascade... slower than not being attacked as frequently like a Regen due to the lack of a taunt aura? I'd completely disagree. (Remember, this started from a comment about the ITF, not solo, so that's the angle I'm approaching this from.)

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Which Will Power power grants Def debuff resistance?

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Heightened Senses, all 17.3% worth. (Tankers is 21.625%.)

I tested it a while back, single attacks from Cims have a debuff value of 10% (screenshot). So if you get hit twice (-20%) it will shave 3.46% off it. Laughable. :P

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Not really laughable when you consider that it means that you're getting hit 7% less, even after those 2 debuffs.

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My problem with that is how fast defense cascades.

Let's say a WP has 20% s/l def and is facing +2 minions. Once the WP hits -30% def, the minions are tohit capped. That means -50% worth of def debuffs after def resistance, or -60% before. That saves the WP one hit compared to a character with no def resistance (5 vs 6). A +2 lieutenant caps out with -38.8% worth of def debuffs after def resistance, or -47% before def resistance. Again, a single hit (4 vs 5).

This is compounded by the fact that RttC is an autohit taunt aura, so WP is far more likely to have more mobs attacking him which means more swings, which means more debuffs.

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Which Will Power power grants Def debuff resistance?

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Heightened Senses, all 17.3% worth. (Tankers is 21.625%.)

I tested it a while back, single attacks from Cims have a debuff value of 10% (screenshot). So if you get hit twice (-20%) it will shave 3.46% off it. Laughable. :P

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I base this alot of this on ITF runs mind you.

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Which disproportionately favors */WP because it's got def debuff resistance and significantly higher levels of lethal resist.

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What?

Why should letha resitance make a difference? Isn't Regnerations mitigation indescrimante?

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*/Regen's mitigation is indiscriminate (or, less so than normal), but */wp's isn't, which means that it gets more effect from some types than others. That's like saying that */invuln is king of the secondaries but only using s/l damage to determine it. The big difference in performance on the ITF though is */regen's lack of debuff resistance (/shakefist at Castle).

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The def resistance in WP is laughable on the ITF; it's so saturated in def debuffs that unless you're riding 55%+ def or ultra high def resistance (80%+) it does you no good. (That's my experience as a Tank, which has stronger def resistance than Scrappers.)

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If I remember correctly, the healing mitos have huge (90%) resistances if they are not held.

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That may be true for the real Hamidon encounter, but I'm almost positive that the Weakened Hamidon in the LGTF doesn't have their protective bubble. They're very squishy compared to the others.

All Scrapper secondaries have 75% as much resistance and defense as a Tanker.

So a stock Invuln Tanker would have 70.2% s/l res, 31.2% exotic res, and 17.16% def with 1 target in Invincibility.

A stock Invuln Scrapper would have 52.65% s/l res, 23.4% exotic res, and 12.87% def with 1 target in Invincibility.


The difference is very substantial. You can IO a Scrapper to be very survivable, but a Tanker with an equal investment would make a Scrapper look squishy.

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The left is mine and the right is the above proposed build 2 flaws major ones 1 almost no recharge in powers and 2 no tohit and no damage bonus.... i also see you sacrificed a major melee damage power. incinerate. keep in mind you are at your strongest in melee stance you need to be in Rise to the Challenge to survive...

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There's no way your build (on the left) has 77.5% tohit and 173.5% dmg - I'm positive you have BU (with the Guassian proc slotted in it) turned on which is not indicative of its performance. With it turned off, you'd be sitting at 6% tohit and 13.5% dmg.

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Oh, I see. So it is still the same as before its just that now it can be detoggled.

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Only in PVP.

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Oh, it detoggles in PvE if you're held, but I can't remember the last time that happened to me. The big thing about PvP is status protection is changed to status resistance, so you can get held in one shot (albeit for brief periods of time). Since it's so easy to be held, RttC detoggles very often in PvP.

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Becasue i added the miracle and regenerative rares and 4 global recharges and obliteration's and Kinetic combats were expensive i a;so have steadfast 3 percent over all defense and also kismet there is a plus acc of 6 percent alot of numina look at the build i put up and price it out you will see why its so expensive

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Federation - Is the build you posted final? I ask because you mention the Steadfast unique and Kismet, yet I don't see it in your revised build anywhere. I was going to offer some advice to up your offense some (I didn't intend on you to only 4 slot your attacks), but there's no point if the posted build isn't up to date.

[edit: Btw, you can buy those high expense items with merits. Also, depending on how long you want to wait, you can get really good deals off the market by placing multiple bids and just sitting on them.]

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Don't listen to the people touting recharge as ideal. Both recharge and regneration have steep diminishing returns. It's best to strike a balance between these two attributes to maximize your survivability.

Example:
<ul type="square">[*]Healing Flames with 100% recharge reduction: 40/2=20 seconds.[*]Healing Flames with 200% recharge reduction:40/3=13.3 seconds.[*]Healing Flames with 300% recharge reduction:40/4=10 seconds.[/list]
As you can see, the first 100% recharge reduction nets 20 seconds of increased recharge. The next 100% yields just 6.7 seconds, and it gets worse from there with 3.3 seconds of reduction for the next 100%. (*)

The same mechanic governs regeneration. (**) Try to hit 200% regeneration and 30-40% global recharge (+70% from hasten). This will bring Healing Flames to near 13 seconds of recharge while hasten is up (95% socketed, 70% hasten, 30-40% global).

+HP is solid and synergizes well with resistance, regen, and heals. (***) It's also often available in conjunction with +regeneration.

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A couple counter points:

(*) Healing Flame heals ~374.8 hp base, or ~730.9 hp slotted.

<ul type="square">[*]40s rech = 18.27 hp/sec[*]20s rech = 36.545 hp/sec[*]13.3s rech = 54.95 hp/sec[*]10s rech = 73.09 hp/sec[/list]
Notice the first 20s shaved off the recharge (40s-&gt;20s) doubled it's effectiveness. The last 10s shaved off (20s-&gt;10s) is a smaller number, yes, but it still doubled the healing throughput. There is one wrinkle - activation time. It basically acts as unenhanceable recharge, so the lower the recharge gets, the more it dilutes the recharge. Still, the basic principle you were arguing is flawed.

(**) Regeneration has no diminishing returns, for the same reasons as above. Yes, additional regen doesn't give as big jumps in time to heal to full, but the hp/sec regenerated stays constant.

RegenTime = 240 / Regen

<ul type="square">[*]With 100% regen, it takes 240s to go from 0 to full; or 0.4167% hp/sec[*]With 200%, it takes 120s; or 0.8333% hp/sec [*]With 300% it takes 80s; or 1.25% hp/sec, [*]With 400% it takes 60s; or 1.6667% hp/sec[/list]
Notice each 100% regen boost increased the hp/sec regenerated by 0.4167% hp/sec.

(***) Increasing Max HP does not improve heals - they're based off your base hp.


Note: You may be correct that a mix of the two yields the best survivability boost, I haven't tried to calculate that. I'm only addressing the misconception on how +rech (for heals) and +regen scale.

It's #2 on your list.

PS: If you use MIDs and haven't edited the database, it always assumes 1 ally is in range.

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none of them can be perma. The cap means you can only reduce the recharge to 1/5th the base.

Unstoppable, Elude, Power Surge, Overload, Kuji-in Retsu

180 second durations
1000 second recharges
020 second minimum downtime

MoG

015 second durations
240 second recharges
045 second minimum downtime

One with the Shield

120 second durations
360 second recharges
240 second minimum downtime

Strength of Will

120 second durations
300 second recharges
280 second minimum downtime

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Hrmm, SF, shouldn't MOG's minimum downtime be 33s?

240 / 5 = 48
48 - 15 = 33

Hmm, that's very curious. I should have been more specific in what I was asking, though - what primary did the Defender have? I ask because that can make a significant difference.

For example, Rad would be exceptionally easy since it has AM (+rech, +dmg, +recov) compared to FF. The sets that really have no significant way to increase their damage at that level are Cold (-def, but Beginner's luck is still strong), Emp, FF, Storm, and TA. (I know this is about low levels, but if you did choose a set with -res or +dmg, then the difference between Defenders and Tankers evens out as you approach 20 when the scalars truly diverge.)

Another thing that really confused me was DM - that should be one of the easier sets on end because Shadow Maul is such a cheap attack. (It has higher efficiency than single target attacks vs 1 target, it's almost criminal vs multiples.) Likewise Fire is nice since it has the bonus dot (so long as you're not dropping Combustion on single targets).


I haven't personally played a Fire/* Blaster (the highest two I've played are both Ice/*), but I noticed my Blasters' edge waning in the 20s. Maybe Fire is just that strong, I admit it's a possibility.

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Why ranged attacks?

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Just like in Hamidon Raids, each Blue Mitos have to be attacked with ranged attacks. I can't find the exact values, but I believe Blue Mitos resist ~90% of all melee attacks damage, regardless of type.

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It's not resistance, as there is no such thing as positional resistance. Instead, they basically have capped defense.

Yellow - Capped Range def
Blue - Capped Melee def


[edit: Didn't Catwhoorg solo the LGTF, or at least get to the last mission? Or was it Hami that he stalemated on? I know he at least got past the Riders.]

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I knew that hamis could add to powers that were not supposed to add to certain attributes (hi mindlink), just didn't know it worked for def debuff resistance.

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Keep in mind that most def resistance is unenhanceable, meaning it ignores def enhancers. For example, check out Heightened Sesnses; its def resistance has the flag "[Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs]". If you want to make sure def resistance will be boosted, check it in CoD for that flag first.

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I guess the same way micros can enhance slows as well as movement buffs.

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Again, assuming the slow isn't set to ignore enhancers, yep. (I fiddled with the idea of putting Micros into Increased Density for kicks and giggles, but the slow ignores enhancers. )

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I suppose if you can make the slots work out, and money is no object, there's no reason you couldn't go for soft-capping positional and just ignore the head start in typed. But I'm not sure the ease-of-use of positional defenses warrants that effort.

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Soft capping a WP to all three positions is just as easy as soft capping a Fire Tank. Neither have any positional def to build from. In order to add that much defense, you'd be sacrificing other powers/bonuses simply for the sake of defense to something you don't have. (I've seen softcapped Regen builds, and I think they were only possible because of Parry.)

Even in a build where the budget is the limit, it's very wasteful - it would never beat a build that went for typed def.

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Sarrate: I have Fault on my second build. It's nice, especially for a more "tank" build for the mitigation but I'd hardly call it defining (certainly more useful then it's SS cousin Handclap). My current build doesn't seem to need the extra mitigation even on alpha intensive encounters. I did an ITF recently with this build and he held up almost as well as my Invuln (however I didn't stick around to try soloing afterwards which I will probably do next time to see how he performs).

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If you don't need the extra mitigation, I can understand. I'd likely still keep it around for aggro purposes. (Okay, that and I love being able to turn entire spawns into popcorn.)

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Also a question: Do you prefer the typed defense because you can get it higher then the positional? It seems to me positional is better depending on what your focus is (in this case positional melee being important to leverage the most out of RTTC). While I understand S/L is the most common type (especially from melee) of damage I was wondering what your thought processes were here.

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It's because Willpower is a typed defense set, so trying to add positional defense is redundant. Consider this:

Heightened Senses gives +3.3% s/l def, or 5.148% enhanced. As I explained above, positional and typed defenses don't stack, so you'd need to add over 5% worth of positional defense before it even makes a difference. Now for the extra wrinkle, all defense bonuses give 50% of their value to a corresponding pair (melee -&gt; s/l, range -&gt; e/ne, aoe -&gt; f/c, and vice versa). So you'd actually need 7.722% worth of extra melee defense before it even equals the s/l, WP's lowest def.

It's much worse for the exotics. To that, HS yields 13% def, or 20.28% enhanced. That's completely wasteful to try to best with positional defense.

The main reason is this: Why bother stacking melee def just to equal the typed when you could use the same slots to make your typed defense better?


That said, it's not terrible to add positional def bonuses due to the 50% cross over rule - so long as you understand you're slotting it for the typed def and not the positional. For example, you can snag 1.56% e/ne and f/c def from the 2/3 set bonus of Blessing of the Zypher. Low slot investment, decent return.


(Note: If you have a positional def build like Shield, I'd say building for typed def is crazy. One other bonus, Kinetic Combat offers its 3.75% def bonus in only 4 slots, compared to most positional def which takes 6. This leave two slots to mix and match for better enhancement value. I personally use four 4 piece KC sets.)

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If you notice, defense buffs enhances the debuff protection in every other kill in the set. It's the same mechanic for Active Defense. Socket a Defense/Recharge/ToHit SHO or HO in Active Defense and watch the value of your debuff resistance increase accordingly.

Mids and especially CoD are not that reliable.

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By how much specifically would slotting 1 hami in active defense add to the defense debuff protection?

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Active Defense is 17.3% def resistance, and Membranes are 20% enhancement, or ~3.46% each. (The last one is slightly less due to ED.) So adding 3 would yield 9.688% def resistance. Also, since the def resistance is stackable, you can double that number if you have enough recharge.

A couple points Vicar:

<ul type="square">[*]Blasters will always be hyper efficient at low levels because of defiance. The mobs are balanced expecting players to have minimal damage enhancement, but Defiance gives them quite a bit of it.

Sup point - Fire Blast is arguably the most end efficient set. Flares only costs 70.3% of what it should, and Fire Blast/Ball have bonus dots that aren't counted against their end costs.
[*]At that level, Tankers deal 8% more damage than Defenders do, so I have no idea how you were having less issues on the Defender compared to your Tank. Which sets did the Defender have?[/list]
Do you recall which sets you used for the different Tankers? Also, which enemies were you fighting?

(I'm just assuming you're looking for feedback.)

That's not a bad start, but there are a few places you could tighten it up. Here are the two biggest concerns for your build right now:

<ul type="square">[*]Typed vs Positional Defense - This is the biggest problem I see with your build. Right now, you seemed to aim for set bonuses that offer positional def (ToD, Oblit, Gaussian, Scirocco) when you should have aimed for typed defense (Kinetic Combat, Eradication, and Aegis being the big 3, Reactive Armor is also a solid choice). For example, swapping the ToD for KC would boost your s/l by 3.75%.

Why typed instead of positional? The two different forms of defense don't stack; only the highest of the two is used. For example, you have 25.4% smashing def and 25.8% melee def, an attack like Brawl (smash/melee) would check against your highest (25.8% melee). If you made the change above (ToD for 4 KC) your defenses would be 29.15% smash and 22.05% melee (smashing would be used). This will be far more prominent with your exotic defenses as they start higher.

(If you have to sacrifice on a pair of typed defense, fire/cold would be the one I'd give up.)
[*]Accuracy - This is another problem for your build for farming +4s. Right now your build has between a 67% and 77% chance to hit +4s (GFS being the exception). That's going to slow you down quite a bit. Two suggestions, try to get more accuracy into your acc light attacks (right now, that's FS and Incin, though changing to KC will effect this) and get a Kismet into your build. That alone will give you a 78% to 88% chance to hit (again, GFS being the exception).

If you'd like to know how to check this in MIDs:
Options -&gt; Configuration -&gt; Exemping &amp; Base Values -&gt; Base To Hit
Change that number from 75 to 39. Hit OK and check. (Be sure to turn off BU, since it's not always up and it also includes the Gaussian proc.) Feel free to change that "Base To Hit" to anything you like, but if you'd like to know what to put in there for different level enemies, check the "ToHit Chances" section of this article.[/list]
There are a few other things, but you may fix those by addressing the two above points. If you post a revised build, I'd be happy to give feedback on that, as well.


Oh, btw, does your character have any of the +max hp or +max end Accolades? I see that you activated Accolades, but you never added any to be turned on.


[edit: PS: Kruunch, any reason you skipped Fault? That's one of the defining powers of Stone Melee. It's incredible.]

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Defense/Recharge/ToHit HOs and SHOs effictively add up to 55% defense debuff protection allowing SD to hit the cap.

(Note: that would be +55% in Ative Defense, and does require stacking. Yes, it's not easy to achieve, but SD is pretty much broken when you get it there.)

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Wait, what...? Hamis add defense debuff protection.... how?

Edit: looking at mids it shows no change by slotting those.

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mids also only shows sr with 62.5% defense debuff protection, when in fact you have 95%, as /sr

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Exactly. As JuliusSeizure says, MIDs isn't always entirely correct. It's a great tool, but by no means authoritative. I find CoD to be far more reliable - if you know how to interpret it. (The last bit is not always easy, especially since not all data for a power is listed there.)

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brutes cap at 800%?

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Brutes cap at 850% dmg, or +750% in Combat Attributes. (As hudsonsmith points out, dmg slotting counts against that number.)

I went through Culex's spreadsheet a couple days ago when I saw that thread, and I pulled the following:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Average Damage Admitted
(To compute res, 100-number.)

All &lt;&gt;1 All
Sm 80% 94%
Le 76% 92%
Fi 85% 97%
Co 85% 96%
En 89% 97%
Ne 87% 97%
Ps 82% 95%
To 67% 93%

50+
Sm 76% 93%
Le 75% 90%
Fi 76% 96%
Co 80% 95%
En 85% 95%
Ne 77% 95%
Ps 63% 87%
To 63% 94%

40-49
Sm 77% 93%
Le 74% 91%
Fi 76% 96%
Co 79% 95%
En 85% 95%
Ne 79% 95%
Ps 63% 89%
To 61% 93%

30-39
Sm 82% 95%
Le 74% 92%
Fi 92% 99%
Co 80% 96%
En 93% 98%
Ne 92% 98%
Ps 70% 94%
To 62% 94%

20-29
Sm 79% 94%
Le 75% 92%
Fi 90% 98%
Co 85% 96%
En 95% 99%
Ne 92% 98%
Ps 81% 97%
To 61% 93%

10-19
Sm 83% 97%
Le 81% 96%
Fi 89% 98%
Co 102% 100%
En 95% 99%
Ne 90% 98%
Ps 111% 101%
To 61% 95%

1-9
Sm 87% 98%
Le 83% 97%
Fi 85% 98%
Co 103% 101%
En 100% 100%
Ne 86% 98%
Ps 111% 101%
To 61% 97%</pre><hr />

First column is all the entities with some form of resistance or vulnerability to the damage type. The second column counts every entity in the game within the given level range. So, for example, a lvl50 Psi user fighting resistance/vulnerable foes will be running up against ~37% resistance. For all lvl50+ enemies, that average is 87%. So it's not often resisted, but when it is, it's very significant.

This makes Energy look like the real winner, though personal experience is that fire is the most consistent. (The numbers could also be skewed by enemies you don't fight a lot, but do show up. Praetorians, for example, would be in this range, but outside of a few story arcs, you'll never run into them again.)


[edit: Oh yeah, Toxic sucks.]