Rigel_Kent

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The equations I gave have two advantages over reduced ones.

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I'd suspect a lot more than two!

The main advantage with the reduced equations is... well, I'm anticipating someone will propose a grand unified risk/reward theorem any post now. Some function of the Defiance damage buff multiplied by some function of remaining hit points, perhaps. Whatever. The reduced equations will make the calculus just a wee bit less...

Terrifying.

==========

I_trick:
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Also the above equations probably doesn't accurately describe what happens when your health is between 0 and 1 percent.

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No worries.

Divisors freak out as they approach zero, because division by zero is liable to lead to farcical election recounts, outrageous BCS tabulations, Hollywood accounting, and other affronts to God and mathematics. Exponents, on the other hand, stay cool as they approach zero, since a^0 = 1. Division by a^0 is also cool, since it's just division by 1.

This leads to a (loosely speaking) "practical" definition of the 565.7% damage buff and 28.3% to-hit buff: these are the buffs that would be theoretically granted, if there were no caps, and you could use Defiance while dead. Yippee!

Sorry in advance.
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DamageBoost: 25% * 2 ^ [(45 - HealthPercentage)/10]
ToHitBoost: 1.25% * 2 ^ [(45 - HealthPercentage)/10]

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I'm a little obsessive compulsive when it comes to algebraic expressions. Simplifying the above expressions yields:

D = 565.7% / (1.07177 ^ H)
T = 28.3% / (1.07177 ^ H)

Where D is damage buff (0% <= D <= 400%), T is to-hit buff (0% <= T <= some cap), H is percentage of hit points rounding up (1 <= H <= 100), and radicals have been rounded. (Edit: And re-rounded!)

Hopefully this might save someone out there some calculator time.

==========
From Arcana's post:
Code:[/color]

---

100.00%	0.55%	full health

57.00%	10.88%	assault (10.5%)

45.00%	25.00%	small rage

42.00%	30.78%	circa one-shot death from average boss

41.00%	32.99%	Fortitude (31.25%)

35.00%	50.00%	Large Rage (50%)

31.00%	65.98%	Aim (62.5%)

28.00%	81.23%	Perma Rage (80%)

25.00%	100.00%	Build Up (100%)

15.00%	200.00%	Circa one-shot death from average LT

9.00%	303.14%	Damage Cap (assuming 3-slot damage)

8.00%	324.90%	Circa one-shot death from average minion

---

Someone requested a chart like the above for to-hit buffs, so here goes.
Code:[/color]

---

100.00%	0.03%	full health

42.00%	1.54%	circa one-shot death from average boss

20.00%	7.07%	Tactics (Blaster/Scrapper/Tanker base) (7%)

19.00%	7.58%	Insight (7.5%)

15.00%	10.00%	Circa one-shot death from average LT

10.00%	14.14%	Targeting Drone (base) (13.875%)

9.00%	15.16%	Build Up (Blaster base) or Fortitude (Controller base) (15%)

8.00%	16.25%	Circa one-shot death from average minion

6.00%	18.66%	Keen Insight or Fortitude (Defender base) (18.75%)

---

The really ginormous to-hit buffs, Aim/Amplify and Uncanny Insight, appear to be beyond Defiance's capabilities.

[ QUOTE ]
- Blaster Fire Manipulation: Ring of Fire: Increased overall damage. Damage ticks are now faster, as well. Recharge was increased to 6 seconds.

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Is anyone else surprised by this one? I've been six slotting Ring of Fire for a very long time, and never, ever considered it an underperforming power.

Of course, I'm still very glad for the change... just as long as I can still root bosses while I burn them.

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- Blaster Fire Manipulation: Combustion: Bonus damage increased.

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Considering the bonus damage on Combustion is about 60% of its total damage, are we looking at a 30% overall buff to this power?

If so, that respec's gonna come in handy.

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- Energy Blast Power Burst: Increased Range to 40'

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Good. More than any other primary, energy blast needs this range boost.

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- Blaster Devices Taser: Increased Range to 20'

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I wonder if this is justification for Dominator/Psychic Assault/Mind Probe to get a 20' range?

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Too bad the devs only seem to use mass statistics to measure performance. Having the dummy killer AT marked as best performing is very discouraging.

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Unless and until killing dummies gives significantly fewer rewards than killing stronger PvPers, the devs' datamining is a fair enough approximation.

Just running the numbers quickly. Hopefully this will help people understand the equalities/inequalities between the new blaster and dominator toggle drops.

BLASTERS:

Trip Mine
TD: 5%, Mez: No, Act+Recharge: 24s.
TDs per 60s: 0.13. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Time Bomb
TD: 19%, Mez: No, Act+Recharge: 364s.
TDs per 60s: 0.03. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Charged Brawl
TD: 5%, Mez: 20%, Act+Recharge: 11s
TDs per 60s: 0.27. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.05.

Havoc Punch
TD: 22%, Mez: 30%, Act+Recharge: 16s
TDs per 60s: 0.83. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.25.

Energy Punch
TD: 5%, Mez: 30%, Act+Recharge: 11s
TDs per 60s: 0.27. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.08.

Bone Smasher (Blaster)
TD: 22%, Mez: 60%, Act+Recharge: 16s
TDs per 60s: 0.83. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.50.

Fire Sword
TD: 5%, Mez: 0, Act+Recharge: 12s
TDs per 60s: 0.25. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Fire Sword Circle
TD: 22%, Mez: 0, Act+Recharge: 22s
TDs per 60s: 0.60. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Frozen Fists
TD: 5%, Mez: 0, Act+Recharge: 9s
TDs per 60s: 0.33. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Ice Sword (Blaster)
TD: 22%, Mez: 0, Act+Recharge: 12s
TDs per 60s: 1.10. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Analysis:

Ice Sword is a nice surprise, but Energy Manipulation is still king of the hill. Fire Manipulation is a loser in I-7, and Devices is a big loser. Mez+TD from the same single power no longer appears to be a threat from Blasters-- even Bone Smasher and Havoc Punch are longshots. This will likely push more blasters than ever into primaries such as Ice Blast, and Blaster toggle dropping, sadly, will continue to be balanced against the uber Ice/EM FotY and its numerous mez+TD combo opportunities.

DOMINATORS:

Bone Smasher (Dominator)
TD: 5%, Mez: 60%, Recharge: 10s
TDs per 60s: 0.30. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.18.

Total Focus (Dominator)
TD: 64%, Mez: 100%, Act+Recharge: 23s
TDs per 60s: 1.67. Mez+TDs per 60s: 1.67.

Incinerate
TD: 5%, Mez: 60%, Act+Recharge: 10s
TDs per 60s: 0.30. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Blaze (Dominator)
TD: 64%, Mez: 0, Act+Recharge: 11s
TDs per 60s: 3.49. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Ice Sword (Dominator)
TD: 5%, Mez: 60%, Act+Recharge: 10s
TDs per 60s: 0.30. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Greater Ice Sword
TD: 64%, Mez: 0, Act+Recharge: 12s
TDs per 60s: 3.20. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Mind Probe
TD: 5%, Mez: 0, Act+Recharge: 9s
TDs per 60s: 0.33. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Psychic Shockwave
TD: 64%, Mez: 50%, Act+Recharge: 12s
TDs per 60s: 3.20. Mez+TDs per 60s: 1.60.

Skewer
TD: 5%, Mez: 0, Act+Recharge: 10s
TDs per 60s: 0.30. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Ripper
TD: 64%, Mez: 0, Act+Recharge: 13s
TDs per 60s: 2.95. Mez+TDs per 60s: 0.

Analysis:

Mez+TD in the same power is handy, but redundant for all Dominators, regardless of primary. That said, the Dominator secondaries do seem to be in balance with each other as far as toggle dropping. There's lots of parity, and where disparity exists, it's give-and-take. The greater concern is whether an optimistic maximum of 4-7 toggle drops per minute gives Dominators a significant enough PvP advantage to make up for their PvP shortcomings.

DEFENDERS, CORRUPTORS, etc.

These ATs' toggle droppers don't compare well to each other. Power-to-power balance is definitely secondary to the global balancing act of toggle droppers versus the strength of toggle-based sets.

[ QUOTE ]
3. When I think empty clips....i want to empty the clips. A 3 shot burst from each gun hardly qualifies. Let's really empty the clips, if that means having less damage per shot and a higher shot count so be it. Im not expecting full auto a la AR blasters but lets count the shells here

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Since cone attacks have a ten target cap, I'd say ten would be a good convenient number of bullets to fire.

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The lack of a secondary powerset that really corresponds to the Thug MM. None of the existing ones really suits the Thug powerset, which, let's face it, lends itself to a natural origin.

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Some secondary powers come close. Force fields are very near-future technology-- at least, force fields that guard against "explode-on-impact" types of weapons, like missiles and rocket propelled grenades. Web grenades, caltrops, and corrosive chemicals and poisons are modern or ancient technology. Some of Dark Miasma could be roleplayed as charismatic manipulation.

The nice thing about the City of Heroes setting is that naturals can have fantasy gadgets and relics without really surrendering their "I'm not super"-ness. If most of your powers are natural, and just a couple come from fantasy tech or magic, that's still natural as far as this world's concerned. Naturals in an unnatural world can't be expected to be exactly the same as anyone in our world.

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The DOT has me worried. I'm concerned that it the DOT may stop a stalker from rehiding.

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I wouldn't worry too much. When my blasters are stealthed and use Ring of Fire/Electric Fence, the 10 second timer starts at power activation, so they rehide very soon after the final tick of damage, if they don't get hit.

Some early numbers on the Thugs pistol blasts:

PISTOLS
Brawl Index: 2.7778
Endurance: 6-7
Recharge: 3 seconds
Comment: Recharge is usually 4 seconds for a 2.7778 BI attack. This might be intentional; shortened recharge could be this power's "side effect." And a nice side effect it would be!

DUAL WIELD
Brawl Index: 1.8333 + 1.8333 (3.6667 total)
Special: KB vs -2s, KD vs -1s. (+1 level per KB enhancement)
Endurance: 8-9
Recharge: 6 seconds
Comment: Usually, DoT comes with a "free" damage bump. Here, 3.6667 BI is normal for a 6 second recharge attack, but it should probably be a tiny bit higher to compensate for it being DoT. 1.8611 + 1.8611 = 3.7222 maybe? That's a 1.52% increase for a split-second DoT; compare to Ball Lightning, which gets a 13.33% increase over Neutron Bomb for a 3 second DoT.

Just some quick tips for the colorblind:

Row A is greyscale, black to white. These colors are "design safe," they won't clash with anything else.

Each row is the same hue. For example, my eye registers 61-70 as the same "family" of green, but 51-60 is a different color, more yellowish. Same-hue colors don't really clash with each other.

For rows B, C, and D, colors ending with 1 through 7 increase in brightness. 11 dark red to 17 very bold red. Colors ending in 9 and 0 are low saturation-- gentler shades, not very bold. X9 is pastel, X0 is smoky. Colors ending in 8 are medium saturation-- not as pastel as X9, not as bold as X7.

For rows E through P, colors ending with 1 through 6 increase in brightness. 61 dark green to 66 very bold green. Colors ending in 8, 9, and 0 are low saturation. X8 is pastel, X9 is soft, X0 is smoky. Colors ending in 7 are medium saturation-- not as pastel as X8, not as bold as X6.

Low saturation shades look more metallic on a shiny surface-- high saturation shades look more plastic on a shiny surface. Low saturation shades are also a little bit safer; bold colors can potentially clash really badly, whereas clashing soft colors don't hurt the eyes as much. Greyscale is equivalent to zero saturation, and looks very metallic when shiny.

Color 40 is an especially useful warm neutral shade. On a shiny surface, it gives the illusion of semi-reflectivity, especially since the game surroundings are filled with warm neutral colors. There aren't any good cool neutral shades; use a greyscale instead-- it'll seem cool because the environment is warm.

It can be helpful to match costume hues with power hues, if you have powers that are very bright and distinctive. Some common power colors:

Energy Melee, Energy Assault: Row B
Fire: Row D
Radiation, Reconstruction, Healing Aura: Row F
Invuln Dull Pain: Row G
Force Fields: Row I
Ice: Row J
Ninjitsu, Energy Blast: Row L
Electric Blast, Electric Manipulation: Row M
Psychic Blast, Psychic Assault: Row N

Adding data for Torrent.

---Defender Secondary---

-Dark Blast-
Dark Blast - 2.7778 Negative Energy
Gloom - 0.6111 Negative Energy * 8
Moonbean - 7.6667 Negative Energy
Tenebrous Tentacles - 0.3750 Negative Energy + 0.27778 Smashing * 8
Night Fall - 0.3056 Negative Energy * 10
Torrent - 1.1111 Smashing (short help Smashing is correct, combat message Negative Energy is incorrect)
Life Drain -
Blackstar -

A little more info on one of the more misunderstood attack sets in the game.

---Blaster Primary---

-Sonic Attack-
Shriek - 1.1667 Smashing + 1.1667 Energy
Scream - 0.3667 Smashing * 5 + 0.3667 Energy * 5
Howl - 1.1250 Smashing + 1.1250 Energy
Shockwave - 0.8889 Smashing + 0.8889 Energy
Shout - 2.9444 Smashing + 2.9444 Energy
Sirens Song - 1.3889 Energy
Screech - 0.2777 Smashing + 0.2777 Energy
Dreadful Wail -

NOBODY'S FORCING YOU TO...

If you ever see yourself type this phrase on this board, stop, take a deep breath, press Backspace, and re-read what you're replying to.

"Nobody's forcing you" is a straw man fallacy. It's a cheap and easy refutation of the extreme position "I'm being forced to...." Cheap and easy because nobody's forcing us to play this game at all.

In actuality, the argument that needs to be refuted is more nuanced: "The game disadvantages incurred by choosing not to ... are unfair because ...." That's what your response needs to address.

DOOOOM!

Premature. I'm deeply wary of this proposed implementation of epic powers; it conflicts, on both the game level and the concept level, with what I enjoy in an MMO. Still, I need to wait and see the implementation. Consider this extreme: if epic powers are just graphic-tweaked versions of Sprint, Brawl, and Rest that don't take up power slots; their effect on the game, for good or for ill, is greatly limited.

IMMERSION

As a roleplayer, I'm most sensitive to the potential immersion effects of this implementation.

Someone early in the thread mentioned that this makes CoV less and less of a comic book and more and more of a bad MMO. I'm inclined to agree; replace Lord Recluse with Lord British, and a permanent, patron-based implementation of epic powers suddenly makes perfect sense to me.

Still, it's too early to see how this change will impact immersion and roleplay; I'd like to wait and see before I get really negative about the change. One thing in particular I'll be watching for: does the implementation reinforce the notion that the NPCs the devs design are special, and the characters that I design are not? 'Twould be a grave offense to my art.

[ QUOTE ]
... I see a return in many ways to D&amp;D type scenarios with COH/COV, in that people can communicate with one another. Unlike the console based RPG's like Final Fantasy, Zelda, etc...

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Any discussion of gaming interactivity trends would be incomplete without noting technological changes.

Not just little changes, mind you. I'm not talking about rumble packs, card readers, or even optical discs. Since this is decades of gaming we're talking about, we have to consider the role of the two biggest recent inventions vis a vis gaming: microcomputers, and the Internet.

Before the 1980s, most good games required multiple humans. Games in general had a lower limit of two-- you can't play chess with yourself, or hangman, or charades. Notable exceptions, such as solitaire and gamebooks ("Choose Your Own Whatever"), involved complex procedures and randomization.

Then, along came microcomputers-- wonderful devices capable of executing complex procedures and simulating randomization, yet small enough to fit on top of your TV. At last, great advances could finally be made in designing single player games. Like Link stabbing an Octorok, the lower limit on number of players in a game was finally pierced.

There was still an upper limit, though. Video game consoles have two or four joysticks. D&amp;D is a drag with much more than five. Basketball remains a game for ten, baseball a game for eighteen.

Then, along came the Internet-- and everyone on this board knows what happened to the upper limit on number of players per game after that. Zork (Dungeon) begat MUD (Multi User Dungeon), and the rest is history.

So, back to the question-- do the trends in gaming interactivity in the past decades result from the ebb and flow of popular whim? Or are they merely natural expansions into new types of gaming made possible by leaps and bounds in technology?

---Defender Secondary---

-Archery-
Snap Shot - 2.0000 Lethal

... Well, it's a start.

-----

[ QUOTE ]
---Tanker Primary---

-Fiery Aura-
Consume - 1.1111 Fire (What is the burn damage on this, if any, and what is the increment range?)

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Consume does not do DoT. It's just one shot of damage.

-----

Hey, this thread is over a year old now. Is it time to start a new one?

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Shiver (Ranged(Cone), Foe -SPD, -Recharge) - Shiver is a LARGE (almost 180 degree) cone area of effect slow power. There's not really much else you can say about it. It's pretty much a one trick pony.

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Shiver's really taken a whipping the past few issues. The devs hate click slow debuffs.

Anyway, I would mention one other important cap on its potential. Despite its enormous size-- largest cone in the game bar none-- it can target only 10 enemies at once.

Often, with one Shiver, I might successfully debuff 8, "Miss" 1, and get "Unaffected" on 1 phase shifted enemy. Everything else will be treated as though it were out of range.

What I get from the original post is that PvP is so disdainful, so highly undesired, to some players, that even the slightest amount of required steering toward PvP zones is causing problems.

While it's true that this negative reaction is largely unfounded, the fact that it's taking place at all is still a legitimate problem. I'd strongly favor a change to these PvP introduction missions that would lessen the perception that PvP is being forced.

Here's my suggestion. Park a Security Chief at the PvP zone entrances, and make the missions to talk to him and nothing else. Maybe a light PvE side mission (Protect Bloody Bay transport / Defeat 10 Clockwork in Skyway City).

This compromise fully protects PvPers from the abuses and exploits of the PvP "safe" zones. It should also reduce the "being led by the nose PvP" feeling that a lot of people are getting.

-----

Oooops, just read Manticore's post. Well at least now I know somebody out there agrees with me.

[ QUOTE ]
You misunderstand. When the I5 changes were announced, the reason given for many of the global changes was that the devs wanted to prevent herding.

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Absolutely. For instance, at that time, Snow Storm could only affect ten targets. Even now, Shiver still only affects ten targets. The reason the devs gave for the target limit-- the only reason that made sense-- was to prevent herding.

Sixth verse, same as the first.

Don't break out the champagne just yet.

Remember, when Ice Tankers got a -damage debuff in their Chilling Embrace, the original -slow debuff in the same power was slashed at the same time. There's no indication, yet, that this SR change won't be similar, simply taking away from +def and adding to situational +res.

There's also no telling whether the +res will be meaningful, or enhanceable. So there's no telling whether the ED optimized slotting for these powers will be 3 def, or 3 def and 3 res.

[ QUOTE ]
My apologies if it sounded like I was saying that non-bug issues didn't belong in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah. I think this thread's been remarkably well behaved. Most of the respondents have been on the forum for quite a while, so there's a strong consensus concerning non-bug issues. We're pretty good at differentiating the questionable issues (such as FF versus Sonic) from the clearer issues (such as Trick Arrow's lack of both power and versatility).

Another for the poor bubblers:

Detention Field: The Immobilization effect of Detention Field is easily resisted. Resistant targets can move around freely while "captured" by this power.

Troll bosses in the Hollows made my new Defender look like an idiot for taking this power.

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, Twilight Grasp never fizzles.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right... I didn't say TG though

Technically, TG does fizzle if the hero using it dies, so that's mostly working as expected.

[ QUOTE ]
Kinetics drains end to heal, thus no end means no heal - twiglight grasp mearly gives an acc penalty. So that would be the reason why the "Kinetics Death casting bug" exists, and no such issue is there for the Dark defender.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most Kin/Elec defenders can easily disprove this. A living target completely sapped of its endurance will still produce working Transfusions and Transferences.

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I believe it relates to the fact that Twilight Grasp is a "place effect". Its existance is resolved at activation time, and its effect is created later by the placed entity. In comparison "attack effects" resolve their effect at animation completion time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

Additionally, I think these "place effects" are "owned" by the targeted victim. So if I use Transfusion, Transference, or Blind on the Blood Brother Slammer, the Blood Brother Slammer becomes the proud owner of a nasty AoE that heals heroes, refills their endurance, or mezzes his nearby Hellion buddies. Since effects in general fizzle if their owners have been defeated, this theory, if true, would explain why these powers behave the way they do when their target is defeated. The target "owns" the secondary effect.

Consequently, I think there's a technical limitation preventing Transfusion from getting "fixed:" specifically, I didn't think the code allows for a hero to "own" a secondary effect centered on someone other than himself. Yet.

[ QUOTE ]
If another hero is under a Disorient effect, and I re-apply O2 Boost on that hero, the Disorient graphics appear over that hero's head for an instant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just following up. Thanks to Cryophobia on Virtue, an Ice Tanker who bravely brawled with a +2 Murk Eidolon for several minutes while my defender spammed O2 Boosts, I've confirmed that the O2 Boosted hero, with no other mez resistance, in this situation is indeed detoggled and disoriented for a short time. We agreed it was an extreme annoyance!

Also, I just remembered a new possible balance issue for Trick Arrow:

"Entangling Arrow and Ice Arrow have 25% longer durations as Controller secondaries than as Defender primaries."

[ QUOTE ]
When an attack misses its target, aggro is generated when the attack begins.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this problem was limited to just Trick Arrow and Archery, so I took my psychic blast defender out for confirmation. I found Mental Blast exhibits the same behavior, so it appears the problem may indeed be universal.

I've got one to add for Storm Summoning/O2 Boost.

"The hero version of O2 Boost cancels itself, even though it does not grant +def or +damage resistance buffs. Its function and duration are similar to Clear Mind and Clarity, so it should be allowed to self-stack."

Notes:

The AI version of O2 Boost does self-stack, and is not overpowered for doing so.

If another hero is under a Disorient effect, and I re-apply O2 Boost on that hero, the Disorient graphics appear over that hero's head for an instant. I suspect, but haven't confirmed, that the other hero is detoggled during that instant. I also suspect Kinetics/Increase Density has this problem as well.

Edit: Heh, Blueeyed beat me to my own post.