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If by "strong healer" you mean "maximizing healing per second," you're playing the wrong MMORPG. Incoming damage is too fast and furious for purely reactive support. Un-mezzed, un-debuffed Freakshow Tanks will laugh at your heal-centric build as they shred through your un-buffed teammates faster than you can say "ohnoes we need moar heals." But if you mean a "regen tankfender," well, that's more viable.
You've got two routes to get a regen tankfender, Traps and Empathy.
Traps Pros:
* Partial mez protection means you only need Break Frees for sleep and fear effects, and Health will help with that.
* Photon Seekers and Acid Mortar can take some hits as well.
* Poison Trap will hold enemies, letting you focus on a high-damage secondary, like /Archery.
* Trip Mine adds even more damage to the mix.
* +Def and -Tohit synergy.
* Don't need expensive enhancements to do well. SOs will do just fine.
Traps Cons:
* Concealment pool will be important to pull off some of your tricks.
* Low regen from Triage Beacon, Aid Self will probably be important too.
* Some powers are unusable or annoying to use while Hovering, making hovertanking of somewhat less use.
* Many PuGs won't want you or won't consider you as taking up a vital team role. This is a problem for all non-Empathy defenders. These PuGs are clueless, of course, but it still means you'll have to be comfortable soloing a lot.
Empathy Pros:
* Huge regen from Regeneration Aura, and you're not tethered to any spot.
* Can skip Stamina thanks to Recovery Aura.
* Can skip Aid Self thanks to Healing Aura.
* All powers work fine while hovertanking.
* Only three primary powers (the auras) help you directly; the rest you can skip to make room for Provoke, defense toggles, etc.
* Can add the usual team support powers back in, in your second build, for Empath duoing. Which breaks the game and gives Castle cold sweats, by the way.
Empathy Cons:
* Zilch for debuffs and crowd control, so you might need a high-utility secondary, like /Sonic.
* Regeneration Aura isn't always on. Not even at the recharge cap.
* Break Free intensive. Health, Acrobatics and CJ will help, to a point.
* Recharge speed bonus intensive. The IOs you'll want for recharge bonuses will be expensive.
* No damage whatsoever in the primary. Veteran Reward powers, invention temp powers will help.
Short version: If you're relatively new to the game, go Traps/Archery (or your favorite AoE DPS secondary). If you've been around long enough to have access to LotGs and vet powers, go Empathy/Sonic (or your favorite utility secondary). If you team regularly with an experienced Empath, also go Empathy/* (to abuse Empathy duo dynamics). -
Quote:Yes. More than just temporary, too.could a D4 defender serve as a temporary tanker for a team or TF?
Twilight Grasp should be loaded up with Recharge enhancements to help tank AVs, GMs, as well as certain annoyance critters like Venging Nemesis and Rularuu Eyeballs and Freakshow Sonic Bombs. Stacking damage debuffs become your main defense when things have to-hit debuff resistance, massive to-hit, or autohit.
Provoke is optional on a dark tankfender, since your teammates benefit equally from essentially all your defenses. Dark Embrace becomes optional if you drop Provoke, especially if you're not stacking it with Tough anyway.
Soul Drain gives you a damage buff comparable to Aim, with double the duration, but unfortunately a much longer recharge. Despite the recharge, I wouldn't consider Soul Drain skippable for a D4, due to the lack of Aim.
Life Drain on a D4 is highly redundant with vastly better powers you already have. If you want a "just in case" utility blast, go with Torrent, which offers a controllable 100% knockback, affects multiple enemies, and applies the same -9%/10sec stackable tohit debuff as Night Fall. If you want a "third blast", go melee with Boxing, Jump Kick, or Air Superiority -- even a temp power will work better than Life Drain for that.
Don't discount the damage on Tenebrous Tentacles. The damage is nearly as good as Night Fall, it merely ticks slower. It's also an important source of smashing damage, handy against those few enemies who resist negative energy damage. Also, range will help, since this is a power you want to make sure hits as many targets as possible. Centrioles and/or Peroxisomes will do the trick. -
Of course, the only reason to even consider the question of Freezing Rain vs. Super Jump at level 14 (wince) is when you're already level 12 or 13.
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Quote:Don't write off blaster too fast. A pair of tankers isn't going to need that much more survival support. A blaster with a semi-support set, such as Sonic Attack (-resists, AoE mez) or Mental Manipulation (zomg -recharge) or Ice whatever (slows, holds) will add more than enough survivability for your tanker buddies, but more importantly, bring more damage than an Empath.im teaming with 2 tanks, a Shield/Fire Melee and a Ele/DB Melee. Im just wondering what be a good support character for this, a defender or a controller. what powersets...any ideas? plz leave suggestions, plz and ty.
An aggressive offender build is also a good way to go. Kin/Sonic perhaps. -
Oops, did I forget to mention that Freeze Ray, Bitter Freeze Ray, and Electric Fence all give targets stacking immunity to undesirable Tornado and Hurricane knockback for 10 seconds? And Tornado's autohit mag 2 stun will stack with Thunder Clap to permastun a boss? In addition to the other boss over there that you permaheld with FR+BFR? Oh, I'm getting sweaty palms just typing all that out. Giggity.
Freezing Rain or Super Jump at level 14? Ouch. Close call, but my vote's on Freezing Rain. -
It's tough to mess up storm/ice. There are simply no "warning! you will regret taking this power!" powers in either set. Tornado is iffy most of the time on teams but is borderline-exploit good against AVs and GMs, FR and BFR are halfway decent holds, Thunder Clap has fantastic duration and recharge speed to balance its low mag, Snow Storm brings down flyers in an autohit AoE, Gale doesn't scatter nearly as much as people think it does, if you aim it right, and O2 Boost would still be a fine defensive buff even if it didn't heal any HP at all.
So, only one bit of minor advice to offer -- don't delay on Freezing Rain. Freezing Rain should be your level 8 pick. It's the closest thing to an I WIN button you can get from a 60 second recharge power (i.e. usable each and every spawn even if your team is steamrolling). And get a clickbind so you can summon it quickly. If not for efficiency, do it for ergonomics, since you will be using it frequently. Example:
/bind LSHIFT+LBUTTON powexecname "Freezing Rain" -
I guess. Though my pacifistic toons still use attacks. Fortunately CoH is scripted so that you don't kill enemies, you defeat them. So taking off all of a target's HP with psi blasts could just be putting things to sleep for a very long time.
Quote:To me not having time to squeeze attacks out is often down to being in a team that is a mess.
Also, thread should've ended when the OP told us he or she owns a lot of patents. You know what they call people who own lots of patents but don't produce any products from them, right? My brother's ex is one. Gotta give her credit, though, she's rich and living in Maui off it. -
Ok. We all know Time Bomb is a weak power. The reason it's not the weakest blaster tier 9 is... because for blasters it's a tier 8.
Still, I think modest changes are enough to give the power some usefulness. Such as a slightly shorter 4s or 6s cast and interrupt time (to match conceptually similar powers such as Trip Mine or Gun Drone). And/or a slightly larger 25' radius (to match nukes). And/or a 100% instead of 80% knockback chance (to increase fun factor and safety factor while also reducing scatter). -
As you might have noticed, electric blasters tend to be fairly reliant on their secondary. An Elec/Ice, for example, probably didn't mind giving up AoE damage in favor of stacking holds and debuffs. An Elec/Fire, on the other hand, is all about PBAoEs, much like Rad/Fire. An Elec/MM probably doesn't mind tanking a bit for a team.
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Is Dark Miasma too far out of concept? All the control, none of the squishiness.
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Quote:Sorry to veer a bit off-topic, but I'm trying to tiptoe around the drama. If you like soloing, Storm/ and Dark/ (in addition to Rad/ of course) have your name all over them. Traps/ TA/ Kin/ and Cold/ don't do too badly at soloing either. Couple with the likes of /Ice or /Archery (in addition to /Sonic of course) and I think you'll find ample reason to add more blue shields to your character list.Personally, I flatly refuse to play a character of any kind that is incapable of soloing.
My defender experience is limited to Rad/Sonic thus far for that exact reason.
Quote:YOU are part of that team, as such, being able to defend yourself via attacks IS part of your job description.
I don't care if you only have one attack, USE IT!
We don't have talent trees to squeeze an extra 2%/4%/6%/8%/10% out of a subset of powers at the cost of ignoring all other powers. We don't have complex aggro rules that penalize you for taking extra actions in combat. We don't have particularly low limits on the number of powers you can accumulate, or the number of enhancement slots we can pass around. We don't have low level powers fading into uselessness as you level up.
What that all adds up to is that Defenders get 24 power picks, 91 enhancement slots, and 60 seconds of arcanatime and 100 base endurance recovery per minute, same as everyone else, and the only way to use those resources to the fullest is to build for versatility. -
Quote:That's what second builds are for. I recommend a soloing, tanking, or hybrid soloing/tanking second build to any Empath. Maneuvers, Provoke, Tough, and Weave instead of Tactics, Recall Friend, Heal Other, and Resurrect? Hell yeah!Pretty much zero defense or mez protection. That's what breakfrees and teammates are for. Solo I'd worry about it...
Teaming build needs moar Thunderous Blast though -- see my post on page 1 in this thread. Recall Friend is iffy for you, since as a Flyer you're automatically the slowest person on the team, and Resurrect and Vengeance aren't fussy about body placement like Fallout and Power of the Phoenix. -
I'm liking the suggestions already given. Another option is Storm Summoning: Tornado is an autohit defense debuff, and Freezing Rain ticks will eventually hit a streakbreaker. One drawback: since the costume critter creator doesn't treat Storm Summoning as an attack set (for shame), you can't combine it with a buff/debuff or defense. No Storm/Rad Emissions allowed, awwww.
So maybe Super Strength/Storm Summoning surrounded by Nemesis LTs? -
Don't be too surprised that VEATs have some QoL hiccups. Branching classes will always have a cognitive disconnect at their heart.
The design purpose of branching is to make one-and-a-half player classes -- the practical reality as seen by experienced MMO players -- look like three different classes -- what game developers put in the promo materials. In any MMO with branching classes, experienced MMO players (like the OP) know from day 0 which of the one-and-a-half classes their final class will be, and build accordingly. The devs, on the other hand, benefit if the game looks like it has a widow, another kind of widow, and a fortunata, not just an eventual widow and an eventual fortunata with a significant amount of overlap in powers and team role. -
This defender vs. corruptor comparison is a closer call than usual, thanks to Radiation Emission having a handful of buff/debuff powers that get noticeably stronger when used by a Defender.
Main Rad/Rad defender advantages (overall, a few powers are significantly better):
Significantly nastier -tohit debuff in Radiation Infection
Nastier slows in Lingering Radiation
Somewhat better -damage and -resistance debuffs in Enervating Field
Somewhat (33%) longer Cosmic Burst stun duration
Slightly (14%) better self-heal in Radiant Aura
Buff/debuff powers obtainable at lower levels/easier to keep when exemplaring
Better APPs
Main Rad/Rad corruptor advantages (overall, many powers are slightly better):
Slightly (15%) higher damage on all damage powers except Fallout
Chance of extra damage on hurt targets on all damage powers except Fallout and EM Pulse
Blasts obtainable at lower levels/easier to keep when malefactoring
And you're right, recharge time standardization makes the Blaster version a bore without any apparent benefit. It's still a solid performer, numbers wise, but it lost some fun factor. -
Quote:Although I agree with the ultimate conclusion that Defenders could use some help, the "Corruptors/Masterminds will kill Defenders" argument is potentially counterproductive.We'll see what gets fixed after Corruptors are able to walk around in Paragon City... no one but hardcore Defender players will make one again.
There's a strong possibility that whatever damage that blueside Corruptors and Masterminds might do to Defender popularity, Containment boosted Controllers have already done. If so, Going Rogue may not make Defenders any more unpopular than they already are. People will remember this "Corruptors/Masterminds will kill Defenders" argument, see that Defenders didn't get less popular, and conclude that Defenders must therefore be A-OK -- meanwhile forgetting all about what Containment boosted Controllers have been doing for years to Defender popularity.
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I guess a corollary to this might be that Corruptors might have more to worry about from Controllers going redside, than Defenders have to worry about from Corruptors and Masterminds going blueside. -
I'm of the opinion that Screech (mag 3 stun and stackable -20% resist for 12 seconds) is fine and Sonic Siphon (unstackable -30% resist for 30 seconds) is kind of crummy. I guess it depends on point of view. I wonder which of the two is more often skipped among defenders.
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It normally takes a mag 2 mez to affect us. Green Ink Men have some mag 1 stuns, for instance, and those have to stack to affect us. Acro adds 2, so it then takes a mag 4 mez to affect us.
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Quote:Huge oversimplification.the Corruptor trades buff/debuff strength for slightly more damage
Defenders have higher values on their heals, debuffs/buffs AND secondary effects.
Corruptors trade strength at some, but not all, kinds of buff/debuffs, for more damage on nearly all damage powers.
Defenders tend to have higher values on buff/debuff powers that are easily hard or softcapped by any buff/debuff AT (Fulcrum Shift, bubbles, heals, mez protection, -defense, +tohit), and do not have higher values on many buff/debuff powers (+rechargespeed, +movespeed, full-heals e.g. rezzes, +/-regen, +/- end, +/-recovery, slows compared to controllers). That leaves just a few buff/debuff types where there's a clear defender advantage: -damage, -tohit, +/-resist, and more modest +damage and +defense buffs that non-defenders can't cap people with, like Fortitude. -
Where's the nuke, man? Between Catch a Breath+Dark Consumption, and no-toggle primary+no-toggle secondary, there's not much of a drawback from the self endurance crash.
Sure, the solo usefulness isn't great, since you have to get some major damage buffage (Aim, Soul Drain, reds, enhancements, IO set bonuses -- all of the above) to one-shot minions with it, but even if it did no damage at all, it's still a "WIN" button when teaming. With the right slotting, you will put targets' endurance at or very close to zero, and turn off their recovery completely for 20 seconds. Even if they have any slivers of endurance left and burn it off as aggro against you, well, hey, you're Empathy, you can take it.
And of course in any sort of Kinetics or multiple Empathy type of team, you will definitely be missing the nuke.
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P.S. It takes a mag 4 hold to one-shot hold through Acro. Just a few of those out there, and they're usually melee only, Council Galaxy Archon melee hold (some haxxed overpowered version of Gravity Well) for instance. -
A modest end discount across "gun" and "gadget" type powers, including pistols, devices and traps, just for flavor, wouldn't be an awful idea. Performing tasks with reduced physical effort, that's the whole point of such technologies, right? You don't have to hurl bullets at enemies by yourself, you convert the chemical energy already stored inside the bullets into kinetic energy, voila.
But dropping endurance usage or recharge times altogether in favor of some other scheme? Well, hey, it's good to think outside the box, and I'm open to the idea.
I'd have concerns about proliferating that concept to gun-using critters, though. Having a bunch of Sky Raiders wipe the floor with my Elec/Elec blapper because his endurance drain has become completely useless against them -- not something I'd look forward to. And endurance drain certainly must remain useful against electronic based technology, like Crey powersuits, for flavor reasons. Also, you'd think there's at least some effort still involved in lifting, pointing, and firing a gun, and controlling its recoil. -
OP: Thank you for a thread on secondaries! So many great defender powers get overlooked because people don't talk about them.
Quote:Yep, we can't overstate the importance of Screech as a "hard single target" debuffer in a team. Screech takes a well-defendered team from cutting through AVs like butter, to cutting through AVs like hot butter.And yes, shriek, scream, shriek, shout is the best single target damage you can get while solo. If you're on a team against a single target screech will be better than shout.
Quote:Originally Posted by City of DataScreech
RES(All Types) -20% for 12s -
Quote:Reducing knockback power by power with IOs might be tough, but I imagine IOs, IO sets, and craftable temp powers such as Empowerment Station powers that give yourself global negative enhancements to knockback should be doable.I asked Castle about this when Inventions were introduced. He said he'd check to see if it was possible, but he didn't know if it was. I never heard anything else, so I'd assume it's not.
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As for Claws Shockwave, if it were a 50% knockback proc, yeah, I'd be banging my head against the wall too. But since it's 100% knockback, that opens up tactical possibilities, just like Sonic Shockwave, Gale, and jousting-backwards Hand Clap and Lightning Clap (the blaster */Elec power nobody ever takes). It's personal preference, but I do have to say I like 100% knockbacks.
One thing I would change, though, is making AE custom critters with Claws Shockwave able to use it from range. They only seem to use it in melee. It looks so much cooler from range. -
Empathy is one of the low damage primaries (your own direct damage, that is). But, like the other low damage primaries, it has a secondary use: you can tank with it.
In the case of Emp/Psi, try to get both Scream and Tornado into the build as early as you can manage. Those stacking recharge debuffs are hellish, and combine nicely with your two primary tanking powers "25' PBAoE Instant Healing With Faster Recharge" and "25' PBAoE mini-Reconstruction With WAY Faster Recharge", and any other layers of defense you may have running, such as OG stunning minions, Scramble stunning an LT or boss of your choice, Tornado splitting the alpha strike against you in half, and a mag 3 stun nuke to fall back on.
Hover, Air Superiority, Provoke and Vengeance are also great for Emp/Psi tanking. Obvious reasons for AirSup, Provoke and Vengeance, less obvious for Hover (but I'll explain below).
As far as powers you might be able to drop to squeeze more tanking powers in: Recall Friend without Vengeance is iffy (Resurrect doesn't care about body placement), Both Heal Other and Absorb Pain is iffy (I take just AP, many other empaths take just HO), Tactics without Vengeance is iffy (with the nuke dropping my toggles, I often just take two Leadership powers as IO mules to open up the un-detoggleable Vengeance), and I'm not sure how much use you're going to get out of Soul Transfer since you get it well after you get all your survival powers.
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Psychic Scream - 60 degree, 60'* cone, 10 target cap, 1.04 psi damage and -62.5%* stackable* recharge for 10 seconds, 12* second recharge and (about) 12 end cost
*s denote awesomeness.
Pure damage slotting priorities: some Accuracy, some Range, high Damage, then as much Recharge and End Discount as you care to squeeze in
Pure tanking/support slotting priorities: some Accuracy, some Range, high Recharge, then as much End Discount and Damage as you care to squeeze in
IOs help, as do Centrioles at high levels. More suited to a mobile tanking or hovertanking playstyle, since cones like to be fired from medium range, not close range.
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Psionic Tornado - 100' range, 20'* radius, 16* target cap, 5 x 0.18 psi damage over time, -37.5% stackable recharge for 10 seconds, 50% chance for knockup* (only initial hit), 20 second recharge and (about) 19 end cost
*s denote awesomeness.
Pure damage slotting priorities: some Accuracy, high Damage, then as much Recharge and End Discount as you care to squeeze in
Pure tanking/support slotting priorities: some Accuracy, high Recharge, then as much End Discount and Damage as you care to squeeze in
Suitable for both melee tanking and hovertanking thanks to an extra wide radius. May indirectly scatter enemies at longer ranges, since half will keep running toward you while the other half are stopped by the knockup. Note that hovertanking makes good use of both Scream and Tornado, though OG becomes clumsy.
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Scramble Thoughts is another option for Emp/Psi/Dark, for Oppressive Gloom stacking. Still a skippable power, but it will help you tank bosses better.
Oppressive Gloom slotting is tricky. The power ticks every 2 seconds (when you see the damage hit you), but defenders have good duration on the stun, so you don't have to keep enemies inside the radius for each and every tick. So slotting depends on your playstyle: 1) if you prefer stationary tanking, OG needs no slotting at all, maybe just a little Accuracy if you hate seeing Misses, but 2) if you prefer mobile tanking, you can "tag" targets with OG's stun then move to new targets, but you need both Accuracy and Stun Duration to pull it off.
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Tanking style summary -- add your own twists as you like:
Classic in-your-face melee tanking: open with Tornado to split the alpha, continue Tornado spam, OG toggled all the time, and maybe one Scream after the first Tornado for extra damage and extra time to heal up from the alpha, knock or stun big-sword bosses (or other high melee damage enemies) and nuisance enemies (mezzers, teleporters, buff/debuff/healers) as necessary
Distance debuff-heavy tanking, getting in melee only if necessary: open with Tornado to split the alpha, Scream spam, Tornado spam from a distance if someone is preventing enemies from moving (mez, roots, taunts, etc.), or Tornado spam up close plus OG toggled if they run at you, knock or stun nuisance enemies as necessary
Hover tanking: open with Tornado to split the alpha, Scream and Tornado spam, OG if you have high Hover speed and don't mind dipping up and down between OG range (low) and optimal Scream range (medium-high), knock or stun nuisance enemies as necessary