Reppu

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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
    Again...Illusion and Plant Control still safely outperforms AND out kills Fire Control with the KD Bonfire.
    I kind of argue Illusion Control still. That is only with Perma Phantom Army, which is not the easiest or cheapest feat. Sorry, I won't give you this outside of the Super High End of builds.

    Plant Control? Sure. Unless you A: Miss against the various enemy groups who get Defense, or B: Hit an enemy group with Confuse.

    Could you pick and choose your enemy groups for Seeds of Confusion? Sure. But unless you're a Perma-Dom Dominator, Seeds of Confusion can't shut down every single enemy type in the game sans it's weaknesses.

    Last I checked, you don't need "Magnitude 4" KD to shut down a Boss.

    If this is all purely on killspeed, which is a nice scarecrow to prevent a blatantly overpowered change to be revoked, you're failing at the point here.

    I also like how Blasters, Dominators, and Masterminds somehow don't get Bonfire all of a sudden and this argument is only based on Controllers.

    Hint: This gave Blasters and Masterminds the best Control power in the game, and Dominators can shore up Even More Damage now.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
    Umm... how many times, in how many threads do I have to say that. In fact, I said it in the post you quoted. Yes, I don't care if it gets changed. My Fire Controller isn't one of my mains. I slotted one of these and got a giggle out of how powerful it was, then went back to my mains. I expect this to be changed. I just don't want some of the stupid things I've heard people talk about here.

    All I expect and hope the devs do if/when they change this is remove the ability of Bonfire to slot Universal Damage sets and give everyone a free unslotter. I'll be A-OK if they do that.
    Then let me stop you here and ask this; Are you simply arguing for the sake of arguing? If we ignore the people saying "Nerf Bonfire to fix it!" and such things, and are more specifically focused on "This IO dramatically changed Bonfire from a situational power, as unfortunate as that is, into a must-have that is superior than most of the control forms of other control primaries by a massive level. It needs to be addressed or flatly removed.", are you still going to argue against this by bringing up an entirely different AT with an entirely different function?

    Of course Damage is the ultimate mitigation. It's a good thing Bonfire does not-so-small damage, over Earthquake and Ice Slick!

    Regardless, it is game-breakingly overpowered. Seeds of Confusion can still potentially miss. So can Fearsome Stare. The only thing Bonfire isn't automatically shutting down? Are Warwolves. I think. And even then I might be wrong.

    And it breaks the target cap. And does a lot of damage over time. I do not know what your definition of "game breaking" is, but mine is "One-hundred percent no-risk shuts down an enemy group, while dealing damage, is easily stacked, and breaks the normal CC target cap."
  3. It... really depends on the Dominator Combination, honestly. Darkness Assault with the ATE Proc in Midnight Grasp has a stupidly massive +66% or so Damage permanently, at Perma Domination levels. Combined with the fact Dominators can get [Sleet] if they go Ice Mastery, which is an easily perma'd -30 DEF/RES, Darkness Assault has some of the best attacks from Dark Blast and Dark Melee (IE: Gloom, Smite, Midnight Grasp), and you have a ludicrously powerful AT.

    Even Fire Assault, if you pick a primary that has a fast-animating or decent DPA Immo/Hold (AKA Fire Control's Char) to leverage up the ATE proc, has the almighty Blaze, soon the improved Blazing Bolt, and other very powerful attacks in it's Assault Set.

    Dominators do a lot of damage. If you factor in the ATE Proc and their ability to debuff, it more than shores up the Damage Modifier Difference. Which goes in favor of the Dominator if they opt into heavy melee.

    Honestly, I do not see any reason why a Dominator would not beat out a Blaster at the extremes. While also out-surviving. Even if they opt out of Ice Mastery, Fire Mastery gives Fireball and Rain of Fire for further crowd-clearing, although Sleet is arguably superior.

    There's not a single thing a Blaster does better than a Dominator, aside maybe be VengeBait.
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
    How much exp do you get from controlling critters?

    But to answer your question, depending on the character quite a bit. My Claws/Will Stalker for example can juggle most of a spawn with Shockwave and Energy Torrent. My SS/Regen Brute keeps critters on their butt nearly as much with only Footstomp. My Dark/Fire Tanker has all the minions around her stunned.

    There are other examples, but the question is mostly irrelevant. A Squishy with Bonfire is still going to have problems hanging with a well built melee. I don't really mind if this use of the proc is nerfed. My Fire/Rad did plenty well for years without Bonfire and will continue to do so. But we need to keep the 'overpowered' calls in perspective to the game we are playing. This power is a very, very, very high performer with the proc. It very well might be too good for the investment. But 'game breaking' powerful it is not, IMO.
    By all this logic, you wouldn't care if it got changed then, right? If it's not a big deal to you, and is thusly not worth using over your Fire Farmers, who cares if it's changed, right?
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by gamer4life3535 View Post
    Franky Reppu if you dont like the proc dont use it but some of us love/like it you dont need to come on here hating on starting something yes its made bonfire good or better so what we play this game to have fun not to start or cause problems or run to devs and nerf this and this and so forth mez was just saying how nice it is really
    I don't like the proc in this specific power, and maybe Tornado. I will see it through to be 'fixed', 'nerfed', 'downscaled', or whatever term you prefer. Not to ruin your fun, but to keep rational level of 'balance' in a power-creeped game.

    If you don't like this, that's fine by me. I never claimed to want to make people happy, at least not the people who think this change "Isn't very good, it's okay."

    >.> Kind of like Infinite Endurance Bio Armor 1.0 was "It's okay. Don't change it though, since it's just okay! OH MY GOD YOU CHANGED IT HOW COULD YOU CHANGE IT THE SET IS RUINED WHY DID YOU DO THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS!"

    ... Or -200% Regen Bio Armor. "It's okay. Don't change it though, since it's just okay! OH MY GOD YOU CHANGED IT HOW COULD YOU CHANGE IT THE SET IS RUINED WHY DID YOU DO THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS!"

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RevolverMike View Post
    Clearly you dont know reppu. Very opinionated and dislikes "power" in the game. As stated by the devs, they currently see no reason to change this. Immunity from mobs, please, like mobs are that hard to defeat.
    Funny thing: I'm a Power Gamer. I LOVE power. But I also love balance. Go figure how that works! Do you know how it works? It means I will push for a power to be as naturally strong as it possibly can be, with out pushing the outlier line into deep space.

    Moreover, unless I see a public-posted quote on the dev stance of the KB to KD IO in Bonfire being "A-Okay!", grain of salt.

    Why? Because you're not allowed to share PM information from devs. It's in that contract you electronically agreed to. So I don't believe this information initially with out evidence to back it up.
  6. A DA post would also serve to give newer people something to review for your quality, too!
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
    Don't forget the lil grass skirts and hula bead necklace thingies. Oh, how about the old half pineapple bra too?
    I sort of acknowledged a flora skirt here, but...

    ... The last two are clearly just Hawaiian fetish gear! They are impure representatives of NATURE!
  8. ... Can I have my 'Flower In Hair' Head Detail?

    Maybe some flower bracelets? Armlets? Choker? Belt? Anklets?

    My inner tree-hugger demands it! The current "Plant" options scream "RRRAGH MUTANT!" more than "Nature loving~!"

    ... Also I like flowers. And am jealous of that ugly Plant hairstyle that has a flower >_>!

    This could totally be a costume pack!

    Head Detail 1: Flower Accessory
    Head Detail 2: Flower Choker
    Shoulder Detail 1: Flower Armlets
    Hand Detail 1: Flower Bracelets
    Waist Detail 1: Flower Belt
    Feet Detail 1: Flower Anklets
    Robe/Jacket/Shirt Detail 1: Flora Top
    Skirt Detail 1: Flora Skirt
    Weapon Detail 1: Rose Rapiers, because classy.

    And since I'm sure some people would prefer more thorny-barbed accessories, so that could be an alternative!

    ... Sue me I'm silly and like flowers.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinder_Flux View Post
    Not to mention they never explained how some of the signature heros and villains can be in multiple locations at the same time, ie Miss Liberty is in 3 locations now, Atlas Park, IP and Ft Triton.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Trickshooter View Post
    Is it tacky to bring up my own suggestion here? >_>



    Edit: Also, I sent this suggestion to Arbiter Hawk and he said that if it really came down to it, they could just easily make the Overwhelming Force proc not affect Bonfire and Tornado, but that they were monitoring them and so far they didn't feel a need to alter anything yet.
    Tornado isn't a terribly huge deal (Small radius and all), but if they believe Bonfire is fine...

    ... Hrm. I wonder what I can break on Beta...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Greyhame View Post
    No argument on the damage - fire tends to get most of its containment from fire cages, which aren't going to play well with bonfire.

    To those playing Fire right now, how much practical use is this? I mean, yes, the mitigation is awesome in a vacuum, but if you try to get some contained damage from fire cages you lose most of the mitigation...
    You trade AoE Containment Fireball, if you went Fire, for Bonfire's 100% Mitigation and Damage. And it's damage isn't bad in the least.

    So, for less burst damage, I'm hitting beyond the target cap AoE Damage and 100% Mitigation, leaving my Imps free to eat things while I blow up Single Targets and still sling half-damage fireballs that are made up by Bonfire, and Hotfeet still ticking for half at least?

    And then you realize you have Flashfire and you're still doing Containment damage.

    Yeeeeah, the loss of Fire Cages for 100% Mitigation that goes beyond the target cap. S'kay.
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
    If the KD protection alligns with the KD period it would have no effect. Ever hit an enemy whoe's been knocked down with a knock down power before they get up? They don't get knocked down if they are in the process of getting knocked already. In fact, a miss-timed KD will almost always have no effect, as the devs allow the enemy to get back up before they can be knocked down again. The only trick with the KD version is that it ticks so very fast compared to most KD that it will hit them before they can respond, something almost impossible to correctly time every time with click KD powers. In effect, this would align the same 'allowing the enemy to get up' period. Besides, the allies do knock need to knock down enemies already being knocked down by the power.

    If the concern is that the power should never step on the toes of any KD power in any situation, then you can still tune the protection to the IO. If I'm not mistaken the IO basically takes the power's current mag and takes it down to by -99%. This means it still has knocks, but incredibly low. so the distance they go is nill. (hence getting knocked down, not back) War mace's crowd control is .67 MAG KB, a knockdown effect. Bonfires' Mag 6.24 KB power, if reduced by 99% is left at .0624 Mag KB. giving bonfire a short-lived mag .1 protection would still add a KD suppression effect even while allowing other KD powers to function.
    Then how short is short? Should Bonfire still be equal to Ice Slick and Earthquake, ontop of dealing sizeable damage? The change you're proposing (It lacks timers) would at least make it equal to Ice Slick and Earthquake, which deal no damage.

    This would require more coding for one specific power that was deemed too powerful to be doing this VERY effect in the first place, which it used to do. Either way, I absolutely want this proc cut out from beneath Bonfire until a solution is made.

    PS: I do have two Fire Control characters. This is not me being green with envy. This is me being realistic that an already top-control set got even dumber, game-breakingly so.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
    Er, not quite.

    Knockback is a control effect, with magnitude and all. If a character with .9 mag protection to being knocked back is hit with a 3.0 mag KB power, they will go flying. If they are hit with a .1 kb power, nothing will happen. Kb IS KD, but in different magnitides. KD is low mag KB, and can be protected against with low magnitudes of KB protection. (see: -KB kismet/steadfast protection Io's) KB will still happen whenever the magnitude of the knock supercedes the protection of the target. (See: some knock power still being able to send tanks flying)

    The physics and the magnitudes are actually separate values, the physics happen after the magnitude is calculated. In this case it's quite easy to balance the Non-IO version vs. the Io version as they have very different magnitudes, the IO altering the mag. So giving a protection in line with the IO values would still allow the higher magnitude threshold to function properly.
    And yet this would needlessly punish ATs who are using sets like Titan Weapons, War Mace, Staff Fighting, and so on.

    Your comment here?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
    I don't exactly agree with this. It's not wrong to say that Bonfire is very, very strong now and probably is more effective than the devs would like. But 'game-breaking' seems a bit much to me.

    There are Tanker/Brute/Scrapper combos that can do more damage in more safety than a character using Bonfire. My Fire/Shield Scrapper for instance is still SIGNIFICANTLY stronger in most ways to my Fire/Rad Controller with this proc. The proc narrowed the gap.
    Okay. It still needs to be changed, regardless of this invisible metric of comparison you're using.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
    Not sure I see how this would be 'punishing' other sets. Let's say it gives after a second a .9 KB protection after knocking back a target for a couple seconds. In standard practice, that is given to a target knocked back by bonfire as they fly back and have to get up. (in fact, time the KB protection to the base knock period of standard bonfire) The low kb protection would mean knocked targets wouldn't be immune to other knock powers, but would enforce the knock suppression already present on enemies. (you can't endlessly ragdoll foes)

    The foes in standard bonfire are knocked away from it, so the knock protection would have little impact for the continuous nature, and using a lower scale magnitude of protection could safeguard against all but the 'overpowered' continuous nature of the KD version. Would it still be better than ice slick? I don't know, but so long as it allows some measure of retaliation without negatively impacting the non-IO bonfire, I really don't think that's the concern.
    Except, uh... no. That's not how that works. KB and KD are the same thing. You'd need to give it immunity to KB to give it immunity to KD. And then they'd be immune to any KB/KD in any other set for that, short, duration.

    So, that idea can't work, since KD and KB are the same thing. They'd be knocked down, then immune to all other sources of KD/KB, then knocked back down again. Never once being knocked out of it.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
    An easy solution would be for bonfire to grant a delayed, short lived resistance to knock to any critter it knocks. In standard practice this would never be an issue, as it would have already sent the critter back out of the KB area before it could be reapplied, so it would not need to again. In the KD version, it could allow them to get up, and perhaps fire a shot back before being knocked down again. This would ostensibly make it on par with ice slick.
    And punish other ATs who didn't get an IO that makes a power literally game-breaking?

    And better than Ice Slick due to superior cooldown?

    The core problem is, even if you change that much of it, it's still superior to the main control power of another set, making ONE power out of Fire Control superior to all of Ice Control.

    The only way I can see them changing it, aside from removing Universal Damage IO access to Bonfire, is to make it so Bonfire is instead a chance to initially KB, which means the chance to KD doesn't apply properly. Which... really is just making another bug to fix a broken power.

    Really, I can't condone Bonfire becoming a "High" Damaging Control Power that beats out the major control power of another control set. It just needs to lose accessibility to this IO.

    Or making it a 50% Chance to KD or KB an enemy, thus making it somewhat... chaotically reliable. Sigh. I don't know.

    But what really needs to be done ASAP is to remove the IO accessibility until a superior fix can be applied. Bonfire is game-breaking right now.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MesmerLune View Post
    I'm sorry Reppu but i loath when something good comes around and people automatically start complaining, and asking for it to be nerfed. By that notion then rage, seeds of confusion, burn, Hurricane, the whole dark affinity set (cause every power there seems to be amazing!), Lightning rod, Phantom army, Chrono shift, ALL the incarnates, and a bunch of "OMG that's awesome" powers should be nerfed.

    Can't we just enjoy a power without someone begging for it to go away?
    Very few (Read: One enemy type in one enemy group, which are phased out eventually) resist KB. Bonfire, with this proc, is the most powerful KB Power in the game. It is easily permable, it has an extremely short cooldown, and it entirely locks down almost every single enemy group in the game.

    Burn isn't remotely overpowered, I don't know why that was included.

    Phantom Army is powerful, but it's not game-breakingly. Nor is it easily permable (Bonfire is off the bat.)

    Chrono Shift isn't game-breakingly powerful. I don't know what this was included.

    Rage is stupid.

    Hurricane is considered fairly terrible sans in some indoor maps, and even then repel has an amusing way of working. Also the KB is chance to, not 100% constant.

    Dark Affinity lost it's God Power in exchange for survivability. Fearsome Stare is stupidly powerful but Terrorize isn't the best CC mechanic.

    Seeds of Confusion is stupid.

    Lightning Rod is okay. It's good but it's not nearly as powerful as Seeds of Confusion or maybe Fearsome Stare.

    Sorry. Just because there are a few freakishly powerful powers, does not mean an IO should turn a power into a power it was never designed to be, and thusly be the best power in the game of it's type (AKA: KD Lockdown).

    PS: Bonfire was already changed once because it use to operate like this on Purple Patch enemies. I will be making sure it loses the accessibility of this IO. Sorry. And if it doesn't? Oh well. Fire breaks the game then.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
    I'm beginning to think some of you people have never been on a team before, or soloed with a blaster for that matter. Is the only application you can think of for bonfire seriously shoving things into a corner to be aoed? That's a personal problem, it isn't anything to do with power quality.
    Bonfire can be thrown down for squishies to sit in as a 'safe zone', but either way this is not about what Bonfire can do, but what it shouldn't be doing.
  17. In the hands of a poor player, Bonfire is a detriment.

    In the hands of a skilled player, Bonfire is seldom used outside of extreme situations (generally, if a mob group can be pushed into a corner.)

    Considering fewer and fewer maps are using the 'indoor' design with such advantages to go with them, for the average player, Bonfire is an extremely weak, if not detrimental power.

    All things said, Bonfire doesn't need a 'nerf'. It just needs to lose the ability to apply this proc. Period. Anything beyond that is nice, but not as important.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
    Has nothing to do with the proc or Bonfire. It's Bonfire + proc.

    The proc is fine in Energy Blast.

    Bonfire is fine with a Thunderstrike set.

    Just because the combination is greater than the sum of its parts doesn't mean one of its parts needs to be nerfed. Any contention to the contrary is hysteria.
    Well, of course. I more meant in specific to the power in question in this thread.

    An easy, and needed fix, until something else can be figured out is just removing the flag of accepting Universe Damage IO sets from Bonfire.

    Easy, simple, people can quit literally breaking the game.
  19. If they can apply the same IO lockout Swift and Hurdle have, that would be good enough for Bonfire.

    As is, too stupidly powerful.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
    Why would it work differently in one AoE power versus another AoE power?
    Because my two examples are Pets, not self-generated powers. There is a difference between the two.

    As far as my reports state, unless this was recent, Panacea is a self-targeted only effect. But due to how the flags on pets work, at least in the case of Triage Beacon and Tree of Life, they trigger on all targets within applicable range.

    I am almost positive Panacea does not work as suggested in Warmth or such powers.
  21. So wait, Panacea affects all targets in any AoE Power, and not just in powers like Triage Beacon and Tree?
  22. Yes, yes. Further proof this proc needs to be gutted.

    >_>
  23. Ooo. Nice typo fix, Hopeling. I ALMOST got it.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
    They're tossing a yellow liquid that deals Cold damage at enemies. They say it's urine, I say it's lemonade. Protest as they might, they can't prove they're not drenching foes in cool, refreshing lemonade. It's just my word versus theirs.

    Also, like any other person doing something you find distasteful, don't team with them.
    If they use names that are obvious for the intention, by try to argue it otherwise? It was already said, Devside, that these people will be handled appropriately.

    There's a difference between "Lemonade Boy" claiming he is firing lemonade, and "Urine Boy" claiming he is firing lemonade.

    One is telling the truth. The other is trying to avoid a generic and other possible punishments.

    "My Word Vs. Theirs" doesn't really work in CoX.