Reppu

I kind of argue Illusion Control still. That is only with Perma Phantom Army, which is not the easiest or cheapest feat. Sorry, I won't give you this outside of the Super High End of builds.

Plant Control? Sure. Unless you A: Miss against the various enemy groups who get Defense, or B: Hit an enemy group with Confuse.

Could you pick and choose your enemy groups for Seeds of Confusion? Sure. But unless you're a Perma-Dom Dominator, Seeds of Confusion can't shut down every single enemy type in the game sans it's weaknesses.

Last I checked, you don't need "Magnitude 4" KD to shut down a Boss.

If this is all purely on killspeed, which is a nice scarecrow to prevent a blatantly overpowered change to be revoked, you're failing at the point here.

I also like how Blasters, Dominators, and Masterminds somehow don't get Bonfire all of a sudden and this argument is only based on Controllers.

Hint: This gave Blasters and Masterminds the best Control power in the game, and Dominators can shore up Even More Damage now.

Then let me stop you here and ask this; Are you simply arguing for the sake of arguing? If we ignore the people saying "Nerf Bonfire to fix it!" and such things, and are more specifically focused on "This IO dramatically changed Bonfire from a situational power, as unfortunate as that is, into a must-have that is superior than most of the control forms of other control primaries by a massive level. It needs to be addressed or flatly removed.", are you still going to argue against this by bringing up an entirely different AT with an entirely different function?

Of course Damage is the ultimate mitigation. It's a good thing Bonfire does not-so-small damage, over Earthquake and Ice Slick!

Regardless, it is game-breakingly overpowered. Seeds of Confusion can still potentially miss. So can Fearsome Stare. The only thing Bonfire isn't automatically shutting down? Are Warwolves. I think. And even then I might be wrong.

And it breaks the target cap. And does a lot of damage over time. I do not know what your definition of "game breaking" is, but mine is "One-hundred percent no-risk shuts down an enemy group, while dealing damage, is easily stacked, and breaks the normal CC target cap."

By all this logic, you wouldn't care if it got changed then, right? If it's not a big deal to you, and is thusly not worth using over your Fire Farmers, who cares if it's changed, right?

I don't like the proc in this specific power, and maybe Tornado. I will see it through to be 'fixed', 'nerfed', 'downscaled', or whatever term you prefer. Not to ruin your fun, but to keep rational level of 'balance' in a power-creeped game.

If you don't like this, that's fine by me. I never claimed to want to make people happy, at least not the people who think this change "Isn't very good, it's okay."

>.> Kind of like Infinite Endurance Bio Armor 1.0 was "It's okay. Don't change it though, since it's just okay! OH MY GOD YOU CHANGED IT HOW COULD YOU CHANGE IT THE SET IS RUINED WHY DID YOU DO THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS!"

... Or -200% Regen Bio Armor. "It's okay. Don't change it though, since it's just okay! OH MY GOD YOU CHANGED IT HOW COULD YOU CHANGE IT THE SET IS RUINED WHY DID YOU DO THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS!"

Funny thing: I'm a Power Gamer. I LOVE power. But I also love balance. Go figure how that works! Do you know how it works? It means I will push for a power to be as naturally strong as it possibly can be, with out pushing the outlier line into deep space.

Moreover, unless I see a public-posted quote on the dev stance of the KB to KD IO in Bonfire being "A-Okay!", grain of salt.

Why? Because you're not allowed to share PM information from devs. It's in that contract you electronically agreed to. So I don't believe this information initially with out evidence to back it up.

I sort of acknowledged a flora skirt here, but...

... The last two are clearly just Hawaiian fetish gear! They are impure representatives of NATURE!

Tornado isn't a terribly huge deal (Small radius and all), but if they believe Bonfire is fine...

... Hrm. I wonder what I can break on Beta...

You trade AoE Containment Fireball, if you went Fire, for Bonfire's 100% Mitigation and Damage. And it's damage isn't bad in the least.

So, for less burst damage, I'm hitting beyond the target cap AoE Damage and 100% Mitigation, leaving my Imps free to eat things while I blow up Single Targets and still sling half-damage fireballs that are made up by Bonfire, and Hotfeet still ticking for half at least?

And then you realize you have Flashfire and you're still doing Containment damage.

Yeeeeah, the loss of Fire Cages for 100% Mitigation that goes beyond the target cap. S'kay.

Then how short is short? Should Bonfire still be equal to Ice Slick and Earthquake, ontop of dealing sizeable damage? The change you're proposing (It lacks timers) would at least make it equal to Ice Slick and Earthquake, which deal no damage.

This would require more coding for one specific power that was deemed too powerful to be doing this VERY effect in the first place, which it used to do. Either way, I absolutely want this proc cut out from beneath Bonfire until a solution is made.

PS: I do have two Fire Control characters. This is not me being green with envy. This is me being realistic that an already top-control set got even dumber, game-breakingly so.

And yet this would needlessly punish ATs who are using sets like Titan Weapons, War Mace, Staff Fighting, and so on.

Your comment here?

Okay. It still needs to be changed, regardless of this invisible metric of comparison you're using.

Except, uh... no. That's not how that works. KB and KD are the same thing. You'd need to give it immunity to KB to give it immunity to KD. And then they'd be immune to any KB/KD in any other set for that, short, duration.

So, that idea can't work, since KD and KB are the same thing. They'd be knocked down, then immune to all other sources of KD/KB, then knocked back down again. Never once being knocked out of it.

And punish other ATs who didn't get an IO that makes a power literally game-breaking?

And better than Ice Slick due to superior cooldown?

The core problem is, even if you change that much of it, it's still superior to the main control power of another set, making ONE power out of Fire Control superior to all of Ice Control.

The only way I can see them changing it, aside from removing Universal Damage IO access to Bonfire, is to make it so Bonfire is instead a chance to initially KB, which means the chance to KD doesn't apply properly. Which... really is just making another bug to fix a broken power.

Really, I can't condone Bonfire becoming a "High" Damaging Control Power that beats out the major control power of another control set. It just needs to lose accessibility to this IO.

Or making it a 50% Chance to KD or KB an enemy, thus making it somewhat... chaotically reliable. Sigh. I don't know.

But what really needs to be done ASAP is to remove the IO accessibility until a superior fix can be applied. Bonfire is game-breaking right now.

Very few (Read: One enemy type in one enemy group, which are phased out eventually) resist KB. Bonfire, with this proc, is the most powerful KB Power in the game. It is easily permable, it has an extremely short cooldown, and it entirely locks down almost every single enemy group in the game.

Burn isn't remotely overpowered, I don't know why that was included.

Phantom Army is powerful, but it's not game-breakingly. Nor is it easily permable (Bonfire is off the bat.)

Chrono Shift isn't game-breakingly powerful. I don't know what this was included.

Rage is stupid.

Hurricane is considered fairly terrible sans in some indoor maps, and even then repel has an amusing way of working. Also the KB is chance to, not 100% constant.

Dark Affinity lost it's God Power in exchange for survivability. Fearsome Stare is stupidly powerful but Terrorize isn't the best CC mechanic.

Seeds of Confusion is stupid.

Lightning Rod is okay. It's good but it's not nearly as powerful as Seeds of Confusion or maybe Fearsome Stare.

Sorry. Just because there are a few freakishly powerful powers, does not mean an IO should turn a power into a power it was never designed to be, and thusly be the best power in the game of it's type (AKA: KD Lockdown).

PS: Bonfire was already changed once because it use to operate like this on Purple Patch enemies. I will be making sure it loses the accessibility of this IO. Sorry. And if it doesn't? Oh well. Fire breaks the game then.

Bonfire can be thrown down for squishies to sit in as a 'safe zone', but either way this is not about what Bonfire can do, but what it shouldn't be doing.

Well, of course. I more meant in specific to the power in question in this thread.

An easy, and needed fix, until something else can be figured out is just removing the flag of accepting Universe Damage IO sets from Bonfire.

Easy, simple, people can quit literally breaking the game.

Because my two examples are Pets, not self-generated powers. There is a difference between the two.

As far as my reports state, unless this was recent, Panacea is a self-targeted only effect. But due to how the flags on pets work, at least in the case of Triage Beacon and Tree of Life, they trigger on all targets within applicable range.

I am almost positive Panacea does not work as suggested in Warmth or such powers.

If they use names that are obvious for the intention, by try to argue it otherwise? It was already said, Devside, that these people will be handled appropriately.

There's a difference between "Lemonade Boy" claiming he is firing lemonade, and "Urine Boy" claiming he is firing lemonade.

One is telling the truth. The other is trying to avoid a generic and other possible punishments.

"My Word Vs. Theirs" doesn't really work in CoX.