Reppu

No, some people just like sprouting bananas all over their body! ;P

It starts out weak, and stays weak. Sustained AoE damage is not what City of Heroes bases AoE damage upon; it's Burst AoE damage. Clearing out as many Lieutenants and Minions as possible in the opening salvo. When has 'sustained' AoE damage mattered aside from Fire Farming and such? I'll admit Spines isn't bad for certain Farm Maps, but Sustained AoE goes against pretty much every main team concept.

AKA; blow it up immediately.

So yeah, I disagree. Burst AoE beats Sustained AoE in almost every situation I can think of that isn't a farming map. If you know of another, by all means?

I assume you feel this way because of Assassin's Strike? Fair enough, although I do feel it could stand to have it's lackluster Single Target addressed.

I should probably consider the fact the AS overhaul really helped Spines out. Too bad it's still hideous.

I know how City of Heroes 'Spheres' work, but it's still not seven times, as much as you'd like to claim it is. Or is it? Who cares, it sucks in comparison to Burst. Stop claiming otherwise.

And that's nice for Spine Burst. It still animates 2 seconds slower than Chain Induction, costs more endurance, recharges slower, etc etc. It's an inferior power, as much as you'd like to praise it isn't. The fact it's so much slower is it's major flaw. Again, you're free to say it's superior. That's your right. I simply disagree with you and that's that. I do not have to agree with you nor will I ever.

TL;DR - Spine Burst is inferior to Chain Induction.

Lightning Rod hits harder than Throw Spines does, scales better, thusly it makes up for the 50% Critical Damage 'loss'. Okay, I'm fine with that. Your point? Lightning Rod also has a few utility tools; AKA you stay hidden, so when you Lightning Rod in, you can position whatever other AoE you want. Who knows! Options are lovely.

Anyway, I'm bored. Electric Melee is better (in my opinion), due to having substantial AoE AND now far superior Single Target than Spines AND being visually more attractive. You're free to justify spines, I could care less if it's buffed or not. It's an ugly set anyway!

I think we're getting off track, badly, as it is. Can you look at me and say Spines is fine as it is? For the "AoE Damage Focused Set", is it superior to anything currently 'contesting' it? Also, you mention Thunder Strike being slow, and it is. Horribly slow! But so is Spine Burst.

I'm sure Spines is 'fine'. And it 'performs'. But I don't think it's AoE is good enough to warrant anything else the set gave up. It's secondary effects? I invoke Blaster Logic there. The best secondary effect is killing something dead, faster. Few alternatives are as good as that.

So; Is Spines Good where it is?

8 x 7 = 56

Spine Burst is Radius 15.

... Nope!

Although more seriously; yes. I'll take my 100% Crits that activate quicker, with higher base damage, 100% critical damage, all for the low, low price of smaller radius.

... And doesn't have the horrible Spines coating, and the really dorky "HURRRRRRRRBLAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!" animation ;P

Spines is underpowered, why are you debating this? Are you saying Spines AoE damage is worth it's lack of single target? If so, alright. It doesn't need buffs.

Also, in regards to Chain Induction? The problem there lies between the keyboard and the chair, not Chain Induction as a power.

True, they are Radius... 10? I think? Pretty decent, although they're held back a bit I won't say it's BAD AoE, because it's not. It's just not going to be better than someone who's REALLY good at positioning Burst/Spinning Strike/etc.

Staff's AoE isn't that good. Worse than Kinetic Melee for sure. Burst is pretty overpowered, though.

Ripper is 'fairly standard' Range 7: Radius 90. It's not that great but it's something

Spine Burst is ugh.

Throw Spines is the only thing really worth acknowledging.

Meanwhile, Kinetic Melee has Burst... which beats all of the above because it's Burst. It's broken and it's been known to me.

Jacob's Ladder is 'okay'. I wasn't claiming anything amazing from it. It's lesser than Ripper for potential AoE but it's a better attack.

Chain Induction is what you're there for. Delicious AoE damage, although 'slightly delayed' due to the jumping mechanic.

And then Lightning Rod. Sure, the cooldown is long, but it's short enough to be there for mostly every single spawn, at least at high recharge levels.

And Street Justice has Spinning Strike. Even opening with it with 0 Combo Points at Stealth isn't bad, and you'll have it saturated for the second salvo really quickly. Otherwise, just combo point up with an AS from stealth on a Boss, punch that boss, then when everything is swarmed they eat a Spinning.

All things said; Spines is derpy. Needs overhaul.

It is. Known bug.

Spines won't beat Kinetic Melee in burst AoE damage. Or Electric Melee. It also can't remotely get close to... any of their Single Target. You did suggest a badly underpowered set had any advantages.

... Willing to argue that it won't even beat Street Justice in burst AoE damage due to Spinning Strike.

There are absolutely no advantages to going Spines over Kinetic Melee and Electric Melee, and arguably Street Justice. It has poor attacks all around, offering absolutely nothing at all. It's AoE is weak, it's single target is weaker. It's a set that DOES need an overhaul.

Furthermore, it's not 'Pylon Test Damage'. Pylons are also good simulations for AV fights and such targets that require some extension of time. If the AV has a unique battle mechanic, sure! That sort of upsets things.

Slightly.

CoX will ALWAYS be a tank and spank game until further notice, so situations where AVs are largely immobile or otherwise easily controlled, then these tests MATTER. Get that through your head and stop ignoring things that hurt your logic.

BUT!

We're done here. When you put words in another person's mouth, you've forfeited the debate and all standing in it. Thank you for your previous time, although you still get angry way too easily.

I leave the following link for you in an attempt to help you deal with this issue: http://www.apa.org/topics/anger/control.aspx

Protecting the Precious Thing isn't any better than what you claim I'm doing. Spines IS an underperforming set, I'm sorry. Don't put words in my mouth, that's just hurting you more and more.

Either way, this is boring and I don't need to debate it further, since many people who were initially against it are starting to acknowledge "Okay, MAYBE this actually has some foundation to consider".

We'll see. As I said earlier, I am dropping this until further conclusive evidence is submitted. But I would not complain if StJ took a small numbers tweak down.

... So you add 1% of total damage per percent of critical, I believe is the accepted norm?

A sensible post, on the City of Heroes forums, from a user NOT Arcanaville?

Prepare to be sacrificed to Mot.

I ate COW, like a heathen.

Didn't all mythological demigods die?

OH HO HO~

And then the Mind/Fire Dom poops on them.

But yeah, Stalker PVP and Stalker PVE = Two TOTALLY different things.

It's not a 'pause'. You can fix the chain with out a pause, you just need to know how to do it.

Additionally, your 'Incarnate powers shouldn't matter!' uh... doesn't really apply. Considering the bonuses from incarnate powers do not vary by any significant degree between power sets... eh, not arguing this. Moot point, BrandX.

That to me sounds like an error that lies between the keyboard and the chair, in regards to your StJ vs MA argument. Personal experience means absolutely nothing unless you back it up with Data. Give data, not personal opinion and/or experience.

And, eh. Spines is extremely poor. It's slow, it has no good single target attacks in the least, and has a number of other flaws.

Electricity definitely benefited because it's ST attacks were only lacking one absurd attack. It got that. Is it better than StJ overall? Nah. Their reduced critical numbers and reduced base damage REALLY hurts Electric Melees prowess. It's a great set, though, definitely. Just, it's definitely not vastly superior to KM or StJ.