Reppu

Not sure which. One or both!

He had an excuse. He no longer has one. At this point, as I said before, he's an overgrown child who has to be right, and is willing to destroy everything if he HAS to be wrong. He is no hero, not anymore. He is a villain. A complicated one, but a villain none the less. There is nothing truly 'tragic' about him anymore. Not due to i23.

Villainize Primal Earth as much as you need to, but this was Tyrant's own undoing. You're still (largely) wrong on Portal Corps methods (again, kill all in dimensions you're monitoring is a choice. I personally have always stealthed them for minimum casualities, rendering your barbaric argument null and void. The requirement is NOT a kill all. That is your option, as a villain.)

Primal Earth is largely 'Good', with it's pockets of Evil and many shades of Gray.

Praetoria's command is largely 'Evil', with it's pockets of Good and many shades of Gray.

Deal with it, or don't! But certain people shouldn't dig up the past and try to paint my entire argument as an RP Absolutist God-Complex... thing. More like "Read the lore you keep citing."

Read my post again. I even said Primal has messed up more than enough. But to villainize the planet as a whole for isolated mistakes is stupid.

Except I didn't? Back off for a bit, and reread my post. They are villainizing Primal Earth because they believe Praetoria to be entirely innocent. To believe so is villainous, period. It's nothing to do with roleplaying. Praetoria is villainous, but not as a whole. There are instances of 'good' in it, but Emperor Cole is not a 'hero'. He is a 'necessary evil'. And he's not a generic villain, either. Things went horribly for him, but he made horrible decisions all on his own.

If having my own opinion, which is shared by others, makes me an RP absolutist? Okay, sure. You're wrong, but okay. That's your opinion, I guess. I'm allowed to express mine, and defend it. And also defend Primal Earth when it's being pointlessly villainized. Welcome to debate. Enjoy your stay. Or don't. You seem to just want to pick a fight.

... And are another dirty Cole Supporter so go die in the explosion in i23, please.

PS: Note the bolded portions. Your 'summary' of my post is an attack on the beliefs I had when posting the post, the intentions of it. Your choice of persona for me, being strongly negative, results in two clear cases of ad hominem. IE: Pointing out a negative, although faux, trait of my self, and twisting and manipulating the intentional belief of my post. "Reppu is a roleplaying elitist so they're wrong hurhur".

So, you're wrong. "Next Up" was "Just Then".

You're free to pick apart my argument, but try not to be a hypocrite next time and actually point out what I've done wrong. Or are you just another internet tough guy? Hm. Or you're just angry. Leaning toward angry.

No. You're still lacking proof. You're saying Primal Earth attacks every dimension it vists and says those dimensions are unaware or innocent themselves. You can't prove that.

Also, stop the pseudo-roleplaying. It's creepy.

I never said he wanted mass genocide. NONE of this post is relevant aside from his execution of Duray for being a ******. I cheered for that. I thought Emperor Cole may realize that he had a potential ally to work with, with the Hamidon angered.

Let's lay it out flat; Emperor Cole, once he realized the Hamidon was mobilizing, no longer had his SINGULAR EXCUSE, aside POSSIBLY from Maelstrom lying his head off, to continue his attack on Primal Earth. The Hamdion was already stirred. Perhaps he felt it was too far in to back off. Maybe this is true. But, BUT, he could have, COULD HAVE, very well tried to negotiate a peace treaty with the revelation that his actions were to stop the wrath of the Hamidon.

We became aware that THIS was his motivation for the war. To put a stop to Primal Earth so the Hamidon wouldn't be angered. That failed. He could have, RIGHT after the Underground Trial, decided "Okay, we're BOTH in a lot of trouble now. We need to work together." Would it have gone over successfully? Possibly not, but possibly so.

To paint Praetoria as innocent, and to villainize Primal Earth, is arrogant. To paint Praetoria as evil, and to paint Primal Earth as innocent, is also arrogant! BOTH sides are guilty in some capacity, but Praetoria COULD have pulled back after Underground/The Hamidon Invasion of Primal Earth.

Emperor Cole, at this point, CHOSE to continue his invasion despite his plan falling. At this point, it's a child not wanting to give up his truck when he's been bad. He HAS to be right. He's felt he's ALWAYS been right. He CAN'T be wrong. He KNOWS best.

THOSE are his flaws. This is why he's a villain. He's a complicated villain, but a villain none the less. Accept it if you wish. Deny it if you want.

But you're villains, in the end, if you support Emperor Cole in the state he is in now.

In a roleplaying sense, mind. I'm sure you're all upstanding individuals otherwise. Just, yeah. Debating the issue at hand; Emperor Cole is no longer a hero. If he ever was.

Primal Earth has it's evils, but it's not as bad as many would paint out. Or as good as others would. It has it's Goods, it's Bads, and it's Grays. Accept all three, don't absolute one or the other.



As for roleplaying, you're all free to do what you like. I don't have to accept it, nor do you have to accept my own opinions. That's... kind of what spirited debate is all about. I'm not trying to use ad hominem when I say you're villains. Just, you're supporting a, if not conflicted, villain. There's no ways around it. Emperor Cole IS a villain now. A hero in the past, perhaps, but a villain now. But, that may be my opinion. Some of you view him as the 'True Hero'. I disagree. His tactics are heavy handed and his methods are brutal. He has some restrain as an honorable villain, but so does Scirocco. And sadly, Scirocco is also a villain.

You wouldn't call Scirocco a hero just because he's noble and has morals, would you? And he has an excuse, he IS cursed. Emperor Cole COULD have put a stop to the invasion when his ambition was shattered, and he was already on the brink of losing EVERYTHING. Instead of losing EVERYTHING, he COULD Have worked out a truce, if not a shaky one, and fight the 'True Threat'. He's chosen not to. He has to be right. He is absolute.

Oh, and due to I23, he no longer has ANY excuse to be viewed as a 'hero'. So, let's acknowledge that too. The man is a child scorned, now. Due to his own failures, and sadly some bad decisions from Primal Earth. But, mostly, his own failures.

Accept it or not, I don't care. Spirited debate, and so on. These opinions have been fascinating, but I disagree with Primal Earth being purely and utterly evil. That nonsense has to end,

I'll be the first to say, or likely not the first to say, that Icy Bastion was an illogical addition. That all said, Ice is definitely a great set, but I wouldn't weigh it any higher than Elec. At least, not at IO levels. At SO levels? Eh... Ice being typed always bothered me. SO levels or very minor IOing, I'd learn toward SR or Ninjutsu more. Or Energy Aura, since, if I recall, it has higher base defense numbers.

Hard to say, I guess. My BIGGEST woe for Ice Armor is Icicles really made the set look good with it's ice armor. With out it... it's just too blocky.

I was talking about Electric Armor. I know Ice Armor gets innate Cold Resistance, but Cold is quite possibly even rarer than Psionic on enemy groups. The odd Blizzard is nice to mitigate, too.

My argument was more of an IO based one, since IO's kept getting tossed around. And that Icy Bastion, while amazing, is not up often enough on any remotely practical build to warrant "Ice has amazing resistances, too!" as an argument.

PS: Auroxis, no set kept their damage aura. Not even Ice. That argument has no ground for Stalkers, unless you acknowledge that Ice has the same 'flaw'.

Not really. Just sounds like you're trying to paint Primal Earth in a poor light. How do you know, with out a shadow of a doubt, that those worlds with scanners are not being monitored because they have, in the past, done a threatening act or are otherwise unstable and a viable concern?

You don't HAVE to slaughter the populace, mind. Just because your 'hero' is actually a 'villain' doesn't mean every single individual who's done those missions hasn't stealthed through them. Blaming Primal Earth as a whole because you can't play a hero, is not exactly Primal Earth's fault.

But I'm sure you, as someone who can pass judgment on an entire dimension, obviously always stealthed those missions and kept hostile actions to an absolute minimum.

(Spoiler: You didn't.)

I think both you and Kitsune Knight are badly hyberboling how 'villainous' Primal Earth is. Probably for rebellious reasons. Maybe you simply think Praetoria is utterly and ultimately innocent and should be the 'true heroes' of the game. Or maybe you're just both really, really poor heroes.

Believing the later, personally.

In the end, sure. Ultimatum no doubt screwed the pooch. Did Marcus Cole HAVE to come to the decision to go on the offensive? No. As much as you'd both would love to paint Primal Earth as the true villains of the game, there was little excuse for Marcus Cole to ignore any benevolent gestures offered, or even offering them himself. Considering he has shown the ability to have compassion, this? This was just a ham-fisted excuse.

Again, I understand. You two just want to villainize Primal Earth. I also acknowledge you're using poor logic and hyperbole, but I get why you want to do it. It's 'cool' to get against the crowd.

Doesn't make you both wrong, though! Just because you shot your gun in self defense, doesn't magically make the blood on your hands turn to water. Praetoria is just as guilty as Primal Earth, if not infinitely more so.

They shot back, a thousand fold. Their fate was their own doing. And so was every other dimension that flipped out just because another one was 'reaching out'. Admittedly Primal Earth isn't entirely innocent, but damning the entire world for isolated incidents?

You both make great villains!

(Amongst other choice words.)

Proof of underlined and bolded text, please?

I'm probably going to change 'great villains' to 'generic villains', if this keeps up. Seems you all do the same hyperbole and hamfisted approach. Weak!

Door. Kick You. Way Out.

Registered in 2007, quite possibly playing before then.

Lasped account due to X reason, quite possibly to play 'the next big MMO'.

Not seeing why I should feel sorry for your disloyalty?

I ultimately agree. I no longer want to see Celestial in the Market. In fact, I strongly disagree with the change to even remove them.

Let us decide what rewards we want. This shouldn't be Paragon's decision. There's no reason to 'remove' them and then gate them beyond some other requirement down the line. These were advertised, ADVERTISED, as your T9 VIP Incentive and Reward.

Are you going to turn around on that now, Paragon? Keep in mind the key word; these were advertised as T9 VIP Exclusive Items, with the sub-text of being removed and added again, with no real explanation on how, at a later date.

And since you made it an option to 'buy into' T9 VIP, I think a term MIGHT apply to this that nobody wants to use.


TL;DR - Leave Celestial in T9 VIP. Don't remove anything from T9 VIP. Let US decide what sets we want, not YOU. Not EVERYONE can use Fire/Ice or Mecha. So far, these sets fill AT niches well.

Mecha would basically be largely a Tech/Science thing. Fire/Ice is a bit more broad with 'some' level of Magic, but mostly it's arguably a Mutant/Science thing. Celestial is most likely the Magic standing one. Maybe a Natural one if you tweak the colors.

You have no reason to remove Celestial unless it's THAT damaging to the Reward Token UI. Leave Celestial Alone.

And Psionic.

And decently Fire.

And decently Ice.

... Everything but Toxic. You give ELA too little credit. It's regarded one of the best defensive sets in the game for a reason. Even just a soft cap to S/L mitigates so much damage, that the 75% Resistance cap and the 30%+ to everything not Toxic (With S/L at 60%+ mark) just makes you a virtually unstoppable juggernaut unless you get terribly, terribly unlucky.

I question even if Ice can beat out ELA, due to ELA having, at the very least, Endurance Management + A Damage Steroid (+20% RECH). Granted Ice has Icy Bastion (Not perma, obviously, and it slows down your damage to activate it) and Hoarfrost (The major perk)... I'm willing to argue, IOd out, ELA is the best Stalker secondary for combined Survivability and Damage.

Only SR edges out in PURE damage, but for Dual Blades only.

IE: You're talking like Icy Bastion is Perma and thus should always be regarded as relevant. It's not. Even if you got the 300% Global Recharge Cap +100% in Icy Bastion, that's a 75s Recharge with a 30 Duration. Less than 50% Up Time. And the odds of you being at that cap besides MAYBE trials is Not Happening. You're more likely sitting at 300%, which is a cooldown of 100, thusly 100 - 30 = 70s downtime.

ELA is far more consistent. Yes, it has trouble with DDR but, eh. It has to have a weakness somewhere.

... So even if the 7.5% is reduced by 95%, it's still a 7.5% Damage Increase? Okay, I didn't know that. By all means, educate.

Remind me, is that 7.5% Unresistable? if not, it'll get resisted to silly, pointless values.

A change that isn't finalized, that is probably 6+ Months down the line?

Hrm. Your choice is logical.

^ Speaks everything.

I'm surprised you'd willingly use Eye of the Storm on a single target AV with a 7.5% -Resistance value, considering EotS is EASILY the worst of attack of the set, especially on a Single Target.

Either way, I don't see it performing well at the high end for Scrappers/Brutes. Tankers? Sure why not. Guarded Spin and the Forms are nice. Maybe. It's lack of Single Target is a threat issue, though.

Stalkers? Assassin's Staff is silly.

Agree to Disgaree, I guess. But I do agree on your other points.

I agree on most of these points, although there is one thing to note; Staff's lack of a Power Hitter is probably it's big issue, since Sky Splitter is a terribly inefficient attack and Serpent's Reach is a gimmick power.

If this issue had been addressed before, it'd be far better off. It's unfortunate that dev-side decided Sky Splitter needed the Total Focus route of "Slow but Powerful", and Serpent's Reach was just a gimmick power.

In the end, I agree; it's a strong low level and SO set. It just has no growth to speak of.

But Staff Fighting is a "Defensive" Set (Which is still the stupidest title ever, can we change this? They're not this term), because it offers Lethal instead of Smashing, and Resistance from the 'worst' of the Forms? 7.5% (10%) Resistance is good, but Sky Splitter is anything but, combined with Form of the Body being the ho-hum of the forms. Especially on Brutes and Tankers, who get diminished use from the drop-in-the-bucket Form Bonus.

I entirely agree that Staff Fighting is an amazing SO set, with very little, if no, room to grow. I won't argue something I agree with. BUT, I can see where people are saying that it's Single Target is just not even worth mentioning, because it's not. It's lack of IO worthy growth is also shun-worthy at the high-end tweak game, sans for Stalkers since they have Assassin's Strike.

In the end? Strong SO Set, weak IO set for Non-Stalkers due to the lack of true growth from +RECH.

I can kill x8 Spawns with Electric Blast Blasters.

Does that make Electric Blast not underpowered? Or Blasters?

I can kill x8 Spawns with Dual Pistols Blasters, too.

Your metric is flawed and so is your argument.

Probably. But does this suggest Staff Fighting's Single Target is 'balanced'? Is the reduced quality warranted from it's secondary Gimmick powers, and three AoE's that aren't overly impressive?