RemusShepherd

Statesman, this is excellent. I was amazed when I found out that resistance debuffs are resisted by the resistance they're debuffing. Your proposal goes a long way toward equalizing defense and resistance in the game. Thank you.

I'll assume you're reading this thread, States. Let me sum up what I think of I5.

Namely, the nature of the game has changed.

Just looking at the game itself, that could be a good thing. I personally disagree with the direction you chose to take, but I can see where it might have been the smart thing to do for the game's long-term longevity.

But from the standpoint of long-time players, I5 is just plain bad. We have to learn new ways of doing the same old things. If there were new content to lure us in, the new challenges would be exciting. But there isn't. So it's a letdown, forcing us to relearn the game without being rewarded for it. It would be easier and more fun to go play another game.

For content, Croatoa is not enough. Long-time players generally either have alts in their teens or level 50s. It will take most people a month or more to get to the Croatoa content with new characters. A month of relearning the game with no new rewards.

I hope that now, you focus on generating new things for us to enjoy and stop 'rebalancing' for a while.

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Hope that clears that up.

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A very clear explanation, yes. All my badge/TF related questions have been answered. Thanks, Pos, for letting us know what's up!

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Thus, defense will always feel weaker than resistance, but look at the formula that you used: 25% defense versus 50% resistance. Thus, a 25% defense equates to 50% resistance. So an even level of defense is better than an even level of resistance. That is all I was trying to say, and I apologize for the confusion.

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No need to apologize. We're on the same side, here.

I used 25%D vs 50%R because they appear equivalent to the dev team spreadsheets. But let's look at actual values. I only have I4 numbers, but in I4 an Ice tank could get a maximum (not counting EA or power pools) of 31% smash/lethal defense pre-slotting. An Invuln tank could get a maximum of 65% resistance pre-slotting -- not counting power pools or Unstoppable. Add to this that the Invuln tank also got large defense numbers from Invincible (10% per enemy) and Tough Hide (15%) and it's pretty freaking obvious -- the devs are *terrified* of giving players high defense, and they consider defense balanced against about twice as much resistance.

And that's a *fantasyland*. In reality, defense numbers equal to resistance numbers *might* be balanced against each other. Considering that defense scales badly against enemies with increased accuracy, that there are 10 times as many defense hosers, that defense is given extra vulnerabilities (to fire, to ranged attacks, to AEs, etc), that the few resistance debuffs that exist are actually *resisted by resistance*...considering all that, I think you'd need higher defense numbers than resistance numbers to balance the two.

Anyway, I feel bad discussing this now. Because it's too late to change their minds before I5, and they're all off at that expo or something anyway. CuppaJoe's the only dev reading this, you know. Maybe they'll see it when they return next week. But even then I doubt we'll be able to change their minds -- Statesman in particular strikes me as remarkably pig-headed, especially when he's wrong.

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I think it actually goes something like this:

Resistance < Defense < Resist + Defense

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No, Defense is definitely on the bottom. It's more like this:

Defense < Resistance < Resist + Defense

Pure Defense is inferior to Pure Resistance for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that there are 10 times as many defense hosers as there are resistance hosers. But the biggest reason is that Resistance buys you *time*.

Example: An enemy has a 50% accuracy and will kill you in 4 shots. So on average you'll be dead in 8 shots.

With 25% defense, the enemy will kill you, on average, in 16 shots.

With 50% resistance, the enemy will kill you, on average, in 16 shots also.

But here's where it differs: The defense hero will be dead after 4 hits. It's just that it will take an average of 16 shots for those 4 hits to happen. They *could* happen right away, and the hero will be dead after only 4 shots. Every shot that does hit is still 1/4th of the hero's health. After the hero is hit 3 times, there is a 25% chance that hero will be killed by the next attack.

The resistance hero will be dead after 8 hits. On average, that will be after 16 shots...but it will never be less than 8 shots. Every shot that hits is 1/8th the hero's health. After the hero is hit 3 times, he can still take 5 more hits and is in no immediate danger.

Defense is random, and fighting a hero with defense just takes luck. Resistance is reliable, and fighting a hero with resistance takes *time*. And time introduces a factor that you cannot stick into any spreadsheet -- player reaction. That player has time to eat an inspiration, get healed by a teammate, turn on another power, or just run away. The defense hero doesn't get those options. Resistance gives you time to play this game interactively. Defense is just like rolling dice.

Defense sucks.

It boggles me that the devs don't understand this, but it's infuriatingly obvious that they do not. At all.

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I got really annoyed earlier and said the devs "must hate ice" which I'm sure they don't, but I just don't understand.

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They don't hate Ice. They hate *defense*.

Defense has many advantages over resistance. A resistance tanker can be brought down by sappers, by stacked holds, or by resistance debuffs. None of those things matter to a hero with high defense, because none of those things *hit* when your defense is high enough. High defense scares the devs, because they seem to think there is nothing they can do to stop it.

Except...in reality, everything stops it. There are more defense hosers in the game than resistance hosers, by a factor of about 10 to 1. (This is not hyperbole. The only resistance debuffers are Council Sonics. Every mook with an assault gun or handaxe debuffs defense.) There are more things that totally ignore defense (Toxic damage, caltrops and swarms. The only thing that ignores resistance is untyped damage from a couple AVs, not counting the psi vulnerability that defense also has.) Defense-based sets have more vulnerabilities. Defense in PvP is a joke because player accuracy buffs are so incredibly strong. And defense is the only set of powers in the game affected by the streakbreaker, a deus ex machina that swoops down on you every once in a while and declares you naked and helpless by divine fiat.

Defense sucks compared to resistance, in practice. But the devs don't see that -- they look at spreadsheets that tell them 20% defense is equivalent to 40% resistance (with base 50% chance for a minion to hit, 20% defense in theory means you're taking 30% of the minion's damage. To get the same value in theory for resistance, you need 40% resistance.) And with those numbers in hand, they make defense worse by far than any other damage mitigation strategy in the game. In reality, to balance the game, they'd have to make defense much, much stronger than their spreadsheets tell them to, because it has so many vulnerabilities. But they don't see that, and won't do it.

The devs don't know what they're doing and they don't really play this game. That's the only explanation that I can think of for the defense nerfs in I5.

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Because of all the Archetypes, we're happiest with them [Defenders]. There are certainly issues with individual sets and powers - and those we're always looking at. Defenders, however, don't have any overarching problems.

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And remember, that was posted by Statesman himself in THIS very forum on June 13th, LESS than two months ago.

Therefore, any nerfs to Defenders, even Dark/Dark Defenders or Force Field Defenders, must be a figment of the player's imagination.

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You don't understand. They weren't happy with Blasters. So they nerfed everyone else, including the villains, to make Blasters better.

Well, I've deleted my level 35 Ice tank, so I probably don't have any right to post here. But looking at the numbers...whether it's 0.5% or 1.3%, either way it means that Ice tanks are going to be a complete joke.

I've said it before and had it ignored before. Defense is very inferior to resistance. In order for defense-based sets to compete, the defense must be overwhelmingly high. The I4 Ice Armor values were just about equal in power with the other tank sets in I5.

The new I5 numbers, though...it's a joke. I'm going to start referring to Ice tanks as 'Glass' tanks from now on.

Thanks for at least responding, Statesman.

That said, this does nothing to address Ice tank concerns.

<ul type="square">[*]Reducing accuracy for villains is a boost to all archetypes. Ice tanks remain inferior to any other tank.[*]We lost two important armors -- Wet Ice and Energy Absorption now give no defense at all. No other archetype had powers whose defense were removed completely.[*]We still have many weaknesses -- auto-hit attacks (swarms, some auras), defense debuffs (every assault rifle and axe user), accuracy buffs (DE quartz), fire (our only defense *was* wet ice and energy absorption), and of course psi.[*]Resistance debuffs are resisted. If you have 90% resistance, you are only affected by 10% of any resistance debuff. No such mitigation exists for defense debuffs, making defense much easier to debuff than resistance.[/list]
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Defense is far, far inferior to resistance. For it to be balanced with resistance powersets, the defense must be overwhelmingly high or supplemented with other bonuses. Other bonuses you could use are health regeneration, extra hit points, mitigation of debuffs, or just add resistance to the powerset. The totally useless power Permafrost is *waiting* for a boost like this. Or just let us be inferior, but take away our weaknesses to fire and psi.

You've just made it so that every hero can better survive against special villains like AVs and monsters. Thank you. But This does nothing to help Ice, relative to other archetypes. There is no reason to bring an Ice tank into a team when any other tank -- or in some cases, a blaster or defender -- has a better chance of survival.

Considering this is one of the most dramatic game changes in I5, and it is one of the response threads with the most player comments, *and* it seems to be universally hated by the players...

...I'd *really* like to see the devs actually *respond*, sometime soon.

The Defiance power is not useful. It is non-noticable. I will never plan on using it, I will probably never notice it coming into effect. It is a non-power. I have no suggestion on how to make it better, because it's just something I don't want and cannot see as an aid to Blasters' current problems.

I'm going to state my opinion again that what blasters need most is reduced aggro. If it becomes easier for tanks/scrappers/pets to take aggro away from blasters, then blasters will thrive in the high-level game. Blasters solo fine in my opinion, it is in teams they need the most help.

Note also that a chaotic game environment -- the environment that Statesman claims to desire -- is unfun and lethal for an archetype with few defenses and great aggro-generating abilities. Players value dependability. Defiance is undependable and makes gameplay more random -- not skill-based, *random*. But then most of the changes made in I5 have the same effect.

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Exactly which support AT could pull a team out of quicksand?

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Any hero with teleport ignores quicksand (mostly, anyway) and group teleport becomes very useful. Which, I suppose, is why I've never had much of a problem with Earth Thorns myself.

Great guide. Just one note:

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Frozen Armor is very good (although damn near useless in PvP) and when combined with weave, or possibly Power Boost from the energy manipulation secondary, an ice blaster can achieve close to the 95% defense cap to smash/lethal.

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There is no 'defense cap'. 45% defense will bring even-level minions to the minimum 5% chance to hit. Additional defense helps against higher level enemies and bosses.

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I know that with 1 slotted sprint and swift I could boost myself up to faster than superspeed, so I imagine that 3 slotted would dust SS.

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1 slotted sprint and swift is much, much slower than unslotted Super Speed. The only travel power that is faster than Super Speed in the game is Teleport, and it requires a lot of work to do so. Swift+Sprint will never be faster than Super Speed. They also don't give the stealth bonus that SS does, which can make getting in an alpha srtike mush easier.

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Superspeed base speed is 275% of normal run speed.

Swift adds +20% to base run speed. 6-slotted that's +60%.

Sprint adds some amount to base run speed, but the rumors are that it varies with level. Let's say it's +50% at level 50. 6-slotted that would be +150%.

So with both Sprint and Swift 6-slotted, you'd be at +210% of normal run speed. That's inferior to unslotted Superspeed. However, it might be fast enough for travel. It'll be faster than unslotted Flight.

I think you'll regret not taking a movement power, but if you don't mind being slower than other heroes it might work for you.

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Hover may give the ability to reach the same vertical capactiy as Flight, but I don't think anyone will be escaping melee combat by hovering out of range...

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I escape melee combat all the time with 1-slotted Hover. Jump, then at the apex of your jump turn Hover on. Bang, you're instantly out of melee range.

That's not a reliable defense, though. At high level you can be splattered against the wall by ranged attacks as easily as you can in melee.

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I went away from the computer to check on some CoV stuff and *wham* I received 5 or so PM's asking "what is the Blaster's role?"

Answer - Ranged damage.

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I think the question should be, "Why would we want to do damage at range?"

We don't do any *additional* damage at range. Scrappers do more damage than Blasters.

We don't do damage any more *safely* at range. At high level, most villain attacks can outrange the ranged attacks of heroes, and blasters are still often one-shotted at range.

Give people a reason to do damage at range. I think the problem really is that simple.

My vote? Give blaster ranged attacks a decreased aggro. So that blasters in a team don't have to worry as much about the bad guys turning and splatting them.

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Also, if you don't slot your other armors

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Maybe that was the intention of this change to EA, so Ice tanker will pick up their other armors and slot them. As it currently stood, it seemed that Ice tankers could easily get by with just Wet Ice and EA.

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You have never played an Ice tanker before, have you? No good tanker is going to be able to TANK by only using those two armors (Here I'm assuming that the tanker took all his armors up to lvl 26, then respec-ed out of them)

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My Ice tank, which I leveled past 26 before the toggle armors were made stackable, used nothing but Wet Ice and EA. At 22 he picked up Tough. That's it. That's all he needed. He wasn't as effective as an Invuln tank, but he was still durable enough to tank for a team.

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Please also notice how must energy/neg-energy either lower your defense, or drains your end. In fact, most mobs are going to lower your defense (That's why putting a cap to our defense is a very stupid thing to do... Defense is all we have!)

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Negative energy lowers accuracy. Slashing/lethal attacks (like assault weapon fire, some claw attacks, etc.) lower your defense. What's more dangerous are the enemies that buff each other's offense -- aren't DE Quartz eminators a +100% accuracy boost to all DE nearby? No defensive powerset is going to be able to stand up to that.

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If you want to be a good Ice Tanker you can't just go running around with only 2 armors! You need them all, and you need them with at least 4 Def Enh each.

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Actually you can get by with only WI and EA as armors. 'Get by', mind, not 'do well'.

I really don't think this is a big change. I don't remember the last time I hit more than 5 enemies with an EA, and usually if I hit only 3 then I'm invincible until it wears off. Capping it at 5 seems fine to me, if they needed a cap on it (and I'm assuming they needed a cap for technical reasons.)

However, Ice needs *help*. Nerfs, even insignificant nerfs, are not a good idea. Ice needs something to bring it up to the effectiveness of other tank primaries, and/or something to set it further apart from the other primaries.

Permafrost is sitting there, ready for the devs to do something with it. I think either S/L resistance or a massive +HP perma buff would be good things to put in Permafrost. The S/L resistance would be better, but a +HP buff would make Ice armor just as effective, giving it some regeneration-like qualities, and would make it more unique.

Just do *something* for Ice. Something *helpful*, please.

Thanks for the explanation, Statesman. One thing, though:

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A solo player (unless the mission calls specifically for a boss in a spawn override) will create spawns with minions and lts. ONLY.

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I don't think that's how it's currently working. My 38th level defender, who I mostly use to solo, recently got a Council mission in which there were several bosses. And there was no warning in the mission text that it would be difficult, or that I should bring others with me.

However, my defender rocks, and I was able to solo all those bosses without too much of a problem.

Similarly, since I3 I have soloed bosses with a 31st level tank and a 25th level controller (the controller cheats -- he Deceives lts and sends them to beat their bosses up).

So one way or another, I don't think it's working as you have planned. Either you need to give up on the 'non-soloable bosses' idea, or you need to make them even tougher, because your players are too smart.

As for the 'one-shot' problem -- have bosses always lead with their debuff, hold, or weakest damage attacks. Let them save their most powerful attack for the second or third in their queue. Yes, this may mean that controllers will have more chance to defang a boss before they get dangerous, but it'll decrease the one-shot problem. Just a suggestion.

This is Dr. Deborah Laskins -- 'Dead Debbie' -- reporting from my lab in Steel Canyon. We finally got one of these creatures onto a dissection table. They appear to be extradimensional -- no surprise to anybody -- and have a harmonic link to electromagnetic field patterns. Expect energy attacks and magnetic-based hold effects. They might be vulnerable to slashing attacks, but it's difficult to tell with this rapidly decaying tissue.

I'm probably contributing best by studying these things in the lab, but my associate Orbstar is on his way to help. Hold tight. These things aren't as smart nor as numerous as Rikti -- we should pull through this if we work together.

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One thing to note about the Dark set is that the Dark Miasma seems to stack on itself somehow, not sure how it works. Like if I hit an enemy with Tenticles and the immobilize part of the power misses but then a few seconds later if I hit the enemy with another Miasma power those tenticles will jump up and grab the enemy even though it missed at first.

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Tentacles has two animation pulses. One lasts as long as the damage lasts. Once TT stops doing damage, the animation restarts and lasts until the immobilization effect ends. What you're seeing is purely graphical.

Something that's important to note is that the tactics you use as a DDD change drastically as you level.

In the early levels (1-16), you will be a blaster with a sizeable heal whose only drawback is that it needs to hit an enemy. You can be the main healer in a team if you're fighting whites or below. You may never use Darkest Night or Shadowfall except in certain situations (DN against bosses and AVs, SF against...well, Clockwork at that level). Your biggest concern is endurance drain -- you run dry quickly, and you should be going for stamina as soon as possible.

At these early levels, the best tactic is to lay down a Tar Pit (if you have it), then start a fight with Moonbeam, then keep cycling your blasts and heal when necessary. Very simple...as long as you have endurance.

In the mid-levels (17-32 or so) you will see lots of changes. Your heal begins to feel inadequate, as enemies can kill teammates while you're in the middle of the the 4 second animation. Your blasts will begin to pale in comparison to a blaster. But you will get powerful control powers (Petrifying Gaze, Tenebrous Tentacles) that will let you take the role of controller in a team. Your tactics will shift.

In these mid levels, you will learn to solo like a pro, and accept a new and powerful role in a team. You can lock down entire groups of enemies with Dark Pit, TT, and PG, then take out the lts with single-target attacks and let TT and/or Nightfall melt the minions away. Once you have Stamina you can cycle your attacks indefinitely, and fight with SF and/or Darkest Night running. You'll use DN on either the center of a locked-down crowd, or on dangerous (and durable) bosses that need to be crippled in combat. You'll use your heal more to debuff bosses than to save team members. These are your glory days, the levels where you are at your best -- you can be a controller, a blaster, and defend your team all at the same time.

At high level (33+) you will start seeing problems again. Enemies will throw stun/sleep/hold attacks that you cannot protect your team against. Your blast damage will further pale compared to blasters. The only thing you get to compensate is a pet that is mostly a tool for further control, and a psionic resistance buff that high-level tanks will desperately need.

I can't offer first-hand advice for the high level game...not quite yet. But your control powers and your pet will be the most important things you bring to a team. Soloing may be more difficult -- you must totally lock down any villains with holds or stuns before the fight begins, or you are doomed. And your heal will be useful only as a debuff, as many enemies will kill you in one shot if they hit. You will probably reslot your Shadowfall for psionic resistance to help your teammates, and rely on other defenders in team to stay alive. You're still very powerful and a good teammate, but you're not what people expect you to be. You will be a controller and a pet user, and pretty good at those roles. Sad that the 'defender' label still sticks around.

That's what I see as the career of a DDD. Mine is level 30 now; I'll let you know more about high level tactics as I discover them myself.

You may want to add that the search function only works on words that are four or more characters long. Smaller words are ignored, even in quoted strings.

Thus a search for 'ice' returns nothing, a search for 'wet' and 'ice' returns nothing. And a search for ' "wet ice" ' returns nothing. There is no way to search for posts about the tanker power Wet Ice, nor any other power with words of three characters or less. This confuses many people into thinking that the search function is broken. It's not broken, just a little insensitive.

*applause*

The best summary of the psychic powerset I've seen. Wish I had this before I made my ff/psy guy, who now has four-slotted MB and Subdue.

I think the problems with the Lost are worse than anyone suspected. Listen to this CD I found after arresting some vagrants in King's Row...

***

"I know the future, I know the future
And I'm shouting it all over the hood.
A television is on my noggin,
but the reception I get isn't so good.
I'm seeing visions of the Rikti
and I'm worried that they'll trick me and...

I'm turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so
Turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so
I'm turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so
Turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so

I've got a rifle, a Rikti rifle,
And a traffic sign slung over my back.
I'm shooting heroes that call me zero
But I don't understand why they're shooting back.
Don't they know that all the aliens
will sweep across the sky again...

I'm turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so
Turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so
I'm turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so
Turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so

A cardbox box, a soap-crate pallet
A TV set, a gun, a batlev
That's all I have so leave me alone
I'm just a man who's an alien clone
so please...

That's why I'm turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so
Turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so
I'm turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so
Turning Riktinese
I think I'm turning Riktinese
I really think so..."