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Quote:Let's break forum protocol and be at least a smidgen fair about this: the nerfherders populating these forums - and their name is Legion - are hardly "mythical strawmen."
This is rumor control, these are the facts: continual nerfs, at least to a portion of the playerbase, have a cumulative negative effect. One nerf perhaps can be gotten over. Nerf after nerf after nerf creates a straw-vs-camel's-back effect that ends up with people leaving. I can tell you that four friends of mine who had returned to CoV because of Mission Architect ended up leaving over the nerfs. I know a few more blueside.
I'm just one person. I wonder how many people know multiple people who have left over nerfs? We'll never know, but I'm guessing a sizeable number. And the numbers add up fast. And I can tell you that the nerfs are getting on my nerves. But that's just me.
I know some of you refuse to acknowledge that some people become upset over nerfs, and after a while we may lose those players... and so what? Good riddance to bad rubbish. I know that some of you view those people leaving the game as making the game somehow "better." Or [general] you may even think that the mere idea that people leave over nerfs is arrant nonsense.... after all, YOU KNOW BETTER, and your word is the Law...! I view this opinion in much the same light that I do ostriches hiding their heads in the sand, but to each their own.
I view people quitting over nerfs as lost money hurting a game that I love. Each lost player means less development $$$.
But that's ok. People who are not playing the way we want 'em to can just get the [edit] out and don't let the door hit 'em, right? We don't need their money, let this [edit-edit] burn... all the way down to a consolidated server. Sounds like a plan!
Well said, and if most of the player base bothered with these forums you'd see many more people around here agreeing with that point of view.
The word "typical" popped up in reference to anti-nerf replies.
What's typical is the same old forumites cheer leading each new nerf, as if it were a newly introduced game mechanic.
This thread is filled with them. The tiny, but loud group of unofficial representatives of gameplay, who speak on behalf of the other 90% of subscribers who seldom, if ever bother with these boards.
They've consistently through the years provided cover for the devs as nerf-enablers, swooping down in force to decry anyone who doesn't sit, shut up, and take the latest nerf imposed on something a plurality used to enjoy (I'm referring to general nerfs effecting gameplay, not major exploits that should be fixed).
The thing is, even they wouldn't want to play their ideal vision of the game, even after the majority of us nonconformists had left their utopia.
I'm not at all talking about big exploits farmers and badgers have used, I'm talking about every little nerf and reduction being protected and cherished like a precious porcelain ornament by the same old people.
From MA critter nerfs, to Freak nerfs, to even Tanker and PvP nerfs last year. Areas were you never see them, until the latest nerf summons their defense.
You may not like the nonconformists among us, but if none of us spoke up, the devs history of hardcore nerf, dialed back to playable levels before it goes live, would've simply skipped the second step.
And that would make you all omnificent Jack Emmerts.
No thanks. -
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Originally Posted by Tank_Washington
"I want to herd a whole map again"
Where are the words herd, or farm in my post?
Quote:I was perma banned on two game forums because I'm an annoying twit.
As for Razoras' reply, you made one of my points for me, try figuring out which. -
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Indeed. Well, previous posts by Ace suggested he felt the campaign began after or at the peak of sub numbers, so I went with his artificial selection.
Here's another image with Issue and the two huge "nerfs" I could remember indicated which I made the same time I made the previous image. Both are sort of messy, though, because of the width of the forums required shrinking the original graph a great deal.
So the increase had nothing to do with the games first major expansion, it resulted from players deep affection for nerfs?
Brilliant detective work.
And the drop in subscribers after the games biggest year of major nerfs, was because there weren't enough nerfs in 2006?
Do any of you remember this games nickname at the end of 2005?
It was "City of Nerfs." Google it.
I remember losing my whole super group that year, most of them left because of all the nerfs and cov didn't offer anything new.
There are a small number of players who get a schadenfreude from watching the smug, overpowered, min/maxers (ie regular players, or non-role players) get nerfed. Unfortunately they all have big mouths, as you can see in this thread, and if they had any control over it, this game would be so f'ing slow and boring it'd be scraping the floor around -30K subs right now.
And all the loudmouthed nerflovers would experience a serene sense of peace on their single consolidated server.
Thank the heavens the devs only listen to most of the nerfherding whiners around here.
Yeah I don't like the MA nerfs, or the freaks, didn't like the pvp nerfs, didn't like the SS/EM/SM tanker nerfs
City of Heroes nerf creates massive outcry
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Quote:Does it also accept endurance recovery as well as healing sets?Quote:I have something similar to that slotted on test,
In pp numina heal numina heal/end, eff adaptor end mod eff adaptor end mod/rech eff adaptor end mod/accu eff adaptor end mod/end [health 1.13% rec 1.5% regen 10%].
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Wow this would be a great feature, how do you add stars to something on these boards?
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Ah hell you're probably right. The thread has a fluffier tone now, which is cuter, bunnies or puppies.
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No no no, it's not intended like that. People make assumptions that can be off base. Finding out where someone is drawing conclusions from might make others more open to a suggestion.
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This is me, giving you that which you desire, an open door, in fact, your own thread, dedicated just to you and the puppies and bunnies.
It's not like this is going to end, so show the rest of us who's experience with this AT doesn't lead us to similar conclusions where you're coming from, and maybe enlighten some of us, what are the resources you use to base your opinions.
Thank you. -
Quote:Having finally gotten around to rolling a tanker that I could bear to take well into the higher levels, I'll confidently say that tanks are just fine. Almost ridiculously strong overall. Any claims of being too weak are a fabrication. No, they don't hit as hard as the damage dealing AT. The fact that they can approach that AT in damage is scary on its' own.
Which is the average experience most players have, especially as you get to the higher levels and access to ranged attacks, more damage, and more control (if that's your choice).
Quote:You're painting an extremely one sided picture here. You cannot count IO sets as offering mitigation without also counting them as offense. IOs have had a huge impact on Tanker damage output; it's night and day.
- Recharge is everywhere with IOs. I'm not just talking about generous recharge bonuses, but actual enhancement value itself. It's very easy to cram 8-9 SOs worth of enhancement into a power. For example, I have Greater Fire Sword slotted with four lvl33 Kin Combats and the lvl50 Mako triple/quad. That gives it 62.19% acc, 95.57% dmg, and 79.12% end/rech. Too expensive? Okay, five lvl35 Crushing Impact (all but dmg/end) and a generic lvl50 end reduc IO. That's 59.64% acc, 95.14% dmg, 78.19% end reduc, and 59.64% rech.
[edit: Change the dmg/rech for dmg/end and the lvl50 end reduc for a lvl50 rech and the numbers will be the same except for 78.19% rech and 59.64% end reduc. I was just copying the st slotting from my Fire/Stone Tank.] - Endurance management is also through the roof. This counts extra recovery and end reduction (such as the enhancement value mentioned above). Why mention this as a damage boost? Because a Tanker that doesn't run out of endurance can deal a lot more damage than one that does. Heck, the difference between having Stamina and not should be a good example of that. It's why many people consider it mandatory, even on sets like WP or Ice.
- Damage procs should not be ignored as an option, either. I'm not personally a big fan of them, but their effect over time (such as hard targets) is undeniable, especially some of the expensive procs like those in purple sets.
That's not even mentioning things accuracy/tohit boosting effects, either. In the general case this may not be too important, but fighting high def mobs (Rikti Drones), ones with tohit debuffs (Death Mages), or up level mobs shows how important it is.
Mix all that together and you can make some absolutely frightening characters, offense wise. For all the Tanks I've invested in IOs (even very minimally like my Ice/SS with only 4 sets of CI) I cannot understate the improvement over their baseline. It's almost like playing a whole new character.
Note: I'm not trying to discount how much mitigation you can get with IOs, I'm well aware of the silliness you can do with IOs in that regard. However, you are vastly downplaying how much offense you get from IOs.
To use your own words, "says you." (I don't say this as an insult or anything, mind you. If you took it as such, then it's possible SpittingTrashcan did as well.)
For me, death is far more frustrating that the slower kill speed. Death can cost me zoning time (twice), travel time, and the frustration of dying in the first place. My biggest problem with Blasters is not always just dying, either. Rather, dying because I missed something, the foe had stupid high burst damage, or I was out of inspirations. I hate surprise deaths like no other as much as I hate being chained to my inspiration tray. I just recently pulled out my lvl33ish Ice/MM Blaster for a few missions. After using the last of my inspirations to kill a Freak Tank, he rezzed and promply killed me. I logged out after that, don't think I even finished the mission.
A Tank killing slower? I'll take that any day because I know I'll be able to get the job done, even if I don't have a blue or red. I can't say the same for Blasters. That is my opinion. I'm sure Blaster players would disagree with me.
This is just a clarification / double check, but you know that Defiance isn't mez protection, right? All it allows them to do is use 3 powers while mezzed (t1/t2 primary powers, t1 secondary power). Blasters still can't move, toggles still suppress, and offensive toggles still shut off. It's a nice perk, but most certainly not true mez protection by any stretch of the imagination.
Ugh, my brain hurts, too many fact based clarifications. - Recharge is everywhere with IOs. I'm not just talking about generous recharge bonuses, but actual enhancement value itself. It's very easy to cram 8-9 SOs worth of enhancement into a power. For example, I have Greater Fire Sword slotted with four lvl33 Kin Combats and the lvl50 Mako triple/quad. That gives it 62.19% acc, 95.57% dmg, and 79.12% end/rech. Too expensive? Okay, five lvl35 Crushing Impact (all but dmg/end) and a generic lvl50 end reduc IO. That's 59.64% acc, 95.14% dmg, 78.19% end reduc, and 59.64% rech.
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Quote:Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence. In me and in the devs. /sarcasm
As much as their current priorities lack any sympathy for Tankers, there's always the chance the devs can come around.
There's enough players on these forums and in the game who are of the opinion that Tankers need "something".
It's been my observation the majority of players will acknowledge Tankers don't measure up conceptually, but many of them have been convinced by a volcal few that the problem can't be fixed for balance reasons. That's utter bunk because almost every one of these kinds of threads generates suggestions and solutions a good number of people agree are worth following up and don't sound unbalancing. A smaller subset are just scared of change and have taken a "don't rock the boat" policy.
The only reason the discussion stalemates is because at this point the devs continue to ignore the issue and dismiss the complaints about Tanker concept, role and implementation. As long as there's enough Tankers to carry the teams that need them, there little motivation on the devs part. Progress wont be made until they have a change of heart and threads on the subject will continue, at least if I have anything to say about it.
.Quote:Oh, I am confidant. I am confidant that the bean counters will tell those at Paragon Studios, that to make the changes you and I would like, to make Tanks a conceptual match to their comic book roots, would cost too much, and not bring in corresponding revenue. That, in the end, is the reason it won't be done in this game.Quote:I don't think it's a money issue at all. At least not directly.
I think it's a case that they simply don't care about the complaints.
The current intent is for Tankers to be medium-low damage decoys. Tankers are that, therefore, as far as Castle is concerned that translates to "working as intended".
For Positron, it's no skin off his nose if Tankers have concept issues or if Brutes take a huge chunk out of the Tanker population. As long as he isn't being inundated with complaints there aren't enough Tankers for the teams that need them or the forums aren't literally disintegrating in riots, I don't expect him to be moved.
Really, I can't think of an argument to convince either to address Tankers if they have no intent to ever do so. I don't think you can persuade someone into having respect for the source material if they just don't.
There's always the chance they change their minds on their own or defer to the people complanining even if they don't understand the complaints themselves.
There's also the chance of world peace in our lifetime. Neither is likely, but that shouldn't stop you or me from trying for it.
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The manufactured problem brigade.
It's nice you have a thread to play frustrated dev in.
"I think it's a case that they simply don't care about the complaints."
Wildly inflated issues are difficult to datamine.
They're working on a slide formula Al Gore used recently to find Manbearpig. So don't give up your quest little kipper.
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Quote:I'm from NY too, and I had a friend who died in that, so?I'm from NY, relax kiddo. Did you join OXFAM or Amnesty International afterward?. Go google Rwanda and then come back to me.
If I was from Darfur pics of slaughtered kids would be cool, because y'know, I'm from there? Idiotic.
Get another angle, I'm sure you can catch a citizen jumping from ninety stories for extra lawlz. -
When did this become the General section.
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The driveby comment was directed at Clouded. I cannot read his posts and have no desire to do so.
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You should, I regularly give good advice whether people agree with it or not.
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"Drive by DOM alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is much better advice when applied to you, then any acorn of wisdom falling from your tree, professor spells a lot.
You, Johnny Butane, and a few others are in a class all your own. Advice - knowledge = Drive by. -
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Your experience is laughable, a mere speck of dust, but your ego seems to span the ages.
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"Seems?"
Funny how regular insults coming PvP types and Arcana have appeared decidedly different to the mods over the years. -
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Guys? You REALLY just do NOT get it. ANY of it.
Suffice it to say if the changes make more happy then the changes accomplished their goal. After all? If you don't know what you missed out on then it really doesnt't matter. Does it?
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How about you explain yourself/position without the vitrol and adolecent insults?
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I see the professors post made it through the cut.
It's still [u]vitriol[u] not vitrol, and [u]adolescent[u] not adolecent.
When putting a fellow player down at least hit spell check (if all else fails), so as to look less like an idiot.
I stand by my earlier [cut] post.
All you drive by experts stay away from my other AT's. -
I'll make a completely vague and unsubstantiated contention that a lot of the people migrating to this area suggesting new ways to change tanks, are either:
A: Trying to mold tanks into an AT they prefer (Scrapper/Controller)
or
B: Have performed only adequately on teams where they've been the main tank.
I don't want Castle coming near my tanks anymore. Melee animation speeds are upped, high performing powers are nerfed.
No more. No thank you. -
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Step 1: Locate a good arc.
Part 3: Recruit Teammates
Part 4: Lead the Group
Part 6: Thank your group
[u]"This may seem obvious."[u]
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