Redlynne

As far as Rent is concerned ... if the price for it is less than the prestige that can be generated by soloing a single radio mission then then entire concept of "rent" has lived past its usefulness and needs to be retired completely. It's a hassle at the "nuisance" level of gameplay, and thus quite unnecessary (not to mention, lacking in FUN factor).

Start charging Rent on all functional items placed into bases (including teleporters, beacons, power and control mains, AUX items, defenses and their AUXes) and you'll have a "respectable" Rent System if you insist on having a rent system at all.

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Has anyone checked if the conversion rate in City Hall has been changed at all?

[/ QUOTE ]It hasnt.

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Why fix what's broken when you can break what doesn't need fixing?

Issue 13: Demolisher

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Voila!

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The URL you provided leaves everything to be desired.

Spring Knights Base Overview screenshot.
Dunno why that didn't make it into the article ...

At least it's easy enough to fix.

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Alternate Builds

Massively: So basically you create the character, and he has the archetype and he has the power selections that he has when you make the character, but then you can switch what powers you have selected over the course of your career at a specific NPC, right?

Matt Miller: Yep!

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Side switching in the future?

Brian Clayton: We're going to be doing more and more in-depth focus groups and research, and things like that, going forward, so eventually I think this is going to become more noise for the community than it is groundbreaking news! But what I can say is that having players go from hero to villain, and villain to hero, would nicely tie together what we've already done to date with City of Heroes and City of Villains. We certainly like the concept and the idea, but we're just not ready to talk about the details yet.

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Am I the only person who looks at these two game resources and thinks ... "Finally, I'll be able to play my character as a Hero *AND* as a Villain!"

As far as programming your way across the Red/Blue Divide ... I'd imagine that would be as easy as storing which Trainer you switched sides at. That way if you tell Ms Liberty you want to switch over to being a villain, you'll appear in the Rogue Isles (as a villain) ... either at the Trainer you told you want to be a Hero previously, or at the default entry point for characters exiting the respective Tutorials (if you've never "crossed over" before). Basically, your "transit point" will get saved for when you "cross back" over.

Alternately, you could just be "dumped out" at the Zone Teleport destination location ... as if you'd been sent there via SG Base Teleporter. In that case, you'd only need to record Last Blue/Red Zone in the database, with a default origin of Galaxy City and Mercy Island (until updated by actually switching sides).

And with the Alternate Builds feature, you could have a Hero Build and a Villain Build ... in theory ...

In which case, all I ask of Positron and his team is to NOT make choices now which could preclude this possibility for Alternate Hero/Villain Builds.

As for the Alternate Builds concept itself, may I recommend that the Alternate Build also have its own set of costume slots *and* its own Bio and Battle Cry info?

Owing to the fact that I can't post preview pics in this forum, while I can on Hero Dawn's forums, I'm simply going to link to the post of the screencaps (with thumbnails) I made this morning of my 8x8 Decorative Base for Spring Knights.

Apologies to anyone who "gets lost" looking at the screencaps, even though they're only showing (a mere) four 2x2 rooms. Owing to the 3D nature of the construction of my base, when looking at screencap stills, it can be hard to "keep in mind" the rest of the geography of the room when you aren't *in* it and moving around, looking at whatever you want to and thus controlling the camera angles to see what interests you next.

On the plus side, I have had base tourists ask me "how big is this place?!?" while exploring. This tends to be most pronounced in the Control Room, due to its triple story construction, where I've essentially got a 6x2 room crammed into a 2x2 footprint ... and due to the "treehouse effect" that causes, it makes the room (and by extension the rest of the base) feel absolutely gigantic rather than cramped and pokey (as is more typical on 8x8 plots).

Oh and btw ... my base is still under construction, so I'm not quite done yet.



Anyone who would like a Base Tour to see, and walk around in, the base I've built can ask me for one when I'm online in the evenings. If I'm not on a TF or a raid, I'll be happy to let you come in and explore around. Or send me a PM here in the forums and we can set a time to meet up for a tour.

The most important thing I'd like everyone to take away from looking at what I've done is that this sort of thing is already possible and can be done by anyone (with the prestige and the patience) to really delve into 3D Base Design.



@Redlynne
Spring Knights SG
Virtue server

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Here's a base I finished just this week for Paragon Super Group on Freedom.

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For me, the most amazing thing about this base is the hangar(s) and the use of the hologram glass as "windows" into other areas. Brilliant!

How did I miss this thread?
Even more importantly ... how did I miss telling people, one more time, about the peculiar yet oh-so-helpful interaction between Flash Arrow and Teleport Foe?

Teleport Foe has a Taunt AoE (when it doesn't Miss) that is 20 feet in radius around the target. But ... that Taunt AoE radius is "beholden" to Line of Sight rules ... meaning ... that if an ally of the target "can't see" the abduction by TP Foe (such as intervening terrain, like a corner, or a perception debuff, such as Flash Arrow or Smoke Grenade, et al.) then the allied mobs of the target are not alerted to your presence and do not aggro.

The perception reduction on Flash Arrow is -90%. Calculating that reduction in the same way that other "reductions" are calculated by the game (see Recharge Reduction and Endurance Reduction), we get the following:

20 / (1 + 0.9) = 10.5 feet

Now realize that PvE mobs in the game have reduced perception in their rear arc by default ... further debuffing their perception ... and you can start to see why it becomes relatively easy to single pull targets that have been hit with a Flash Arrow. Even when they're almost within melee range of one another.



Why is this useful?
Because it's "Offensive Stealth" rather than "Defensive Stealth" ... if you can get your brain around the concept.

Being able to Single Pull (via Flash + TP Foe) ... without drawing aggro ... maintains the element of surprise in ways that no amount of Stealth/Grant Invisiblity could ever provide (if only because those abilities supress upon attacking).

And what happens when you bring the abductee to where you are?

Feed them to the Ninjas.

When you pull single targets via TP Foe, your Ninjas outnumber the target upon arrival ... and you can abduct your target to a place where there are no allies, no reinforcements, within shouting distance, to come save them. And because you haven't drawn aggro (usually), you'll be able to Wash, Rinse, Repeat ... until there are none left.

Flash Arrow ... TP Foe ... dogpile on da wabbit ... wash, rinse, repeat. Usually it will take your Ninjas only a few seconds to dispatch a Minion, a couple more seconds to take out a(n even con) Lieutenant, so you may actually want to put a recharge reduction (or two) in TP Foe if you don't like waiting for the recharge.

This tactic is stupidly safe once you develop a "feel" for it (being able to judge distances so as to successfully avoid aggro) and can be reliably performed from level 8 onwards.



FEED THEM TO THE SHARKDECONS!!!

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It's been a while since I've looked, and I'm kind of taking too long of a work break right now, but what set bonuses of real value to a Tanker are in the sleep sets?

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Hibernation
Sleep Dur / +Health / + Smashing Res / - Recharge Time

Induced Coma (Chance for Recharge Slow proc IO)
Sleep Dur / +Health / Debt Prot / + Move / + Melee Def

Lethargic Repose
Sleep Dur / + Energy Def / + Smashing Def / + AoE Def / + Toxic Res

Call of the Sandman (Chance for Self Heal proc IO)
Sleep Dur / +Health / +Endurance / - Recharge Time / + Toxic/Psionic Res

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As for the concern (as pointed out to me by Redlynne between discussions of patarns for pants) of Scirroco's Chance of Lethal knocking mobs out of the sleep when slotted in FA (assuming of course FA did damage and took pbAoE sets)

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The easiest way around this is to do what Mesmerize does for Mind Controllers. Specifically:

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55.875 second Sleep (magnitude 3.5) to Target ==>>(after 0.25 second delay)<<== if (target = critter)

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That's how you put damage onto a sleep power ... you delay the sleep effect until AFTER the damage has been dealt.



For the record Tundy, I still think you're wrong to covet the toys of the other secondaries. The better option ... imo ... for AoE damage in Ice Melee is to convert Frost from a 90 degree/7 foot cone attack into a 10 foot PBAoE sphere attack, and to give Ice Patch a "banana peel factor" of minor smashing damage on KD proc (which then amounts to a DoT over the full duration of the Ice Patch). The Ice Patch change would then enable/excuse allowing PBAoE Damage IO Sets to be slotted into Ice Patch.

Again, imo ... Frozen Aura should be the "capstone" to Ice Melee's hard/soft control abilities. It should be the click power counterpart to Chilling Embrace, enhance the MAG of Holds and Immobilizations (so as to stack advantageously with other powers) and last-but-not-least ... Sleep. Increase the radius from 10 feet to 20 feet and you're basically in business.

Such a configuration isn't a "knockout punch" type of Nuke Power like most other secondaries get ... it's a "steal the initiative and never give it back" type power that puts your foes into the Deep Freeze and doesn't let them out again (until they're on their knees and on their way to the Zig).

And in case anyone is not familiar with the proposal I made in the Fixing /Ice Melee; 3.0 thread (see link in sig) somewhere around the 50th reply, here it is again:

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Frozen Aura (Ice Melee)
Changes from the current Live Server (as recorded at City of Data) implementation of Frozen Aura are [u]underlined[u] for ease of comparison.

Type: Click, [u]Melee[u]
Prerequisites: None
Accuracy: 1
Modes Required: None
Range: -
Modes Disallowed: Disable_All
Interrupt Time: -
Cast Time: 2.1 seconds
Recharge Time: 20 seconds
Activate Period: -
Endurance Cost: 13
Attack Types: AOE Attack, Cold Attack
Effect Area: Sphere
Radius: [u]20 feet[u]
Max Targets Hit: 10
Target: Caster
Target Visibility: Line of Sight
Notify Mobs: Always
Enhancements Allowed: Accuracy, Endurance Reduction, Recharge Reduction, Sleep, Taunt
IO Sets Allowed: Sleep

Level 50 Tanker Effects:
<ul type="square">[*]23.84 second Sleep ([u]magnitude 3[u]) to Target if (target = critter)[*][u]17.88 second Sleep (magnitude 1) to Target (50% chance) if (target = critter)[u][*]15.496 second Sleep ([u]magnitude 3[u]) to Target if (target = player)
Suppressed when Held, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Sleep, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Stunned, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Immobilized, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Terrorized, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)[*][u]11.92 second Held (magnitude 0.5) to Target if (target = critter)[u][*][u]7.951 second Held (magnitude 0.5) to Target if (target = player)
Suppressed when Held, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Sleep, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Stunned, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Immobilized, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Terrorized, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)[u][*][u]11.92 second Immobilize (magnitude 0.5) to Target if (target = critter)[u][*][u]7.951 second Immobilize (magnitude 0.5) to Target if (target = player)
Suppressed when Held, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Sleep, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Stunned, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Immobilized, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)
Suppressed when Terrorized, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)[u][*][u]-16% RechargeTime Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds [Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs][u][*][u]-24% RunSpeed to Target for 20 seconds[u][*][u]-1 Fly to Target for 20 seconds[u][*][u]-24% FlySpeed to Target for 20 seconds[u][*][u]-24% JumpHeight Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds [Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs][u][*][u]-24% SpeedJumping to Target for 20 seconds[u][*][u]-14% Smashing Enhancement to Target for 10 seconds [Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs][u][*][u]-14% Lethal Enhancement to Target for 10 seconds [Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs][u][*][u]-14% Fire Enhancement to Target for 10 seconds [Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs][u][*][u]-14% Cold Enhancement to Target for 10 seconds [Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs][u][*][u]-14% Energy Enhancement to Target for 10 seconds [Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs][u][*][u]-14% negative_Energy Enhancement to Target for 10 seconds [Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs][u][*][u]-14% Toxic Enhancement to Target for 10 seconds [Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs][u][*][u]-14% Psionic Enhancement to Target for 10 seconds [Ignores Enhancements &amp; Buffs][u][*]13.5 second Taunt (magnitude 4) to Target if not (((((target = Class_Boss_Archvillain) or (target = Class_Boss_Monster)) or (target = Class_Boss_Mito)) or (target = Class_Boss_Hamidon)) or (target = Class_Boss_RularuuFM)) or (target = player))[*]6 second Taunt (magnitude 4) to Target (14% chance) if (target = player)[/list]
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* Lucky and Evasion are in the wrong order in the SR set

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Focused Fighting
Focused Senses
Evasion
Practiced Brawler
Dodge
Agile
Lucky
Quickness
Elude

Next ...

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* The -DEF in Unyielding should be removed given the overall reductions to the invuln set

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That, and the recognition that Invulnerability is still completely vulnerable to Defense Debuffs ...

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* Geas of the Kind Ones supplants Quartz eminators as Most Stupidly High Tohit Buff

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Which then begs the question ... how long does it take to fix a decimal point typo in a spreadsheet? YEARS?!?



We now return you to your regularly scheduled blunt trauma on dessicated corpse event, already in progress ...

_Castle_ ... you have once again proven why you are one of THE most appreciated red names to appear in the forums.
'Nuff said.

On the subject of */Ice Melee, specifically, is there anything in the Fixing /Ice Melee; 3.0, or its preceeding thread(s), that is of *any* use to you? Do you have any "points of interest" with regards the powerset that you would like to know more about, either in general or in specificity?

In short, is there anything that We The People can do for you, _Castle_?

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I go away for just a few days, and look what I come back too. The thread's buried several pages down. No talking, discussion, bouncing ideas, just the silence of defeat.

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And here I thought that was actually my fault for actually giving something so concrete and complete that no one could in their own mind(s) encompass the totality of it all ... and therefore didn't really know what to say. I don't in any way blame you Tundy, for the current state of affairs.

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You know what, I think this is it. I'm done with Ice Melee.

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And in a quiet, unwatched corner of Paragon City ... a bouquet of beautiful flowers starts to wither and die, shriveling on the stem, as they pass into shadow ... and the long night of disappointment begins anew.

/emote cry

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At least back then I felt like it was worth it and I wasn't alone.

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You're not alone, Tundy. You're not.

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Molar_Mauler, Ice_Ember, Ice_Knight, Wonderslug, and of course, Aett_Thorn.

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/emote salute

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As for Redlynne, well, I feel really sorry for her. She has put in a ton of effort on her latest ideas and they have been by and large ignored by everyone, myself included.

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Hey, just because I could crank that gigantic pile of info out in a single day doesn't mean that I think people should be able to absorb and fully understand it all in about the same amount of time. It's a LOT to try and encompass all at once, and probably the only real way to get a good grasp of what it all "means" would be to playtest it so as to get a "feel" for what happens. So I figured that it might take a few days for people to get around to trying to assimilate all the data and put together the interlocking pieces (trust me, it's designed as a somewhat unified whole) so as to understand the subtle yet fundamental underlying shifts in gameplay and performance.

Short answer: it wasn't simple to do, so I didn't assume it would be simple to understand. Just take your time. I'll still be here in case anyone wants to chat about it, and I am (still) very much wanting to hear point-vs-counterpoint on what works vs what doesn't.

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I could claim burn out, but that's no excuse.

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It may not be an excuse, but it's good way of explaining. Heck, it took me most of a day's free time to write everything up, and it would be presumptuous on my part to expect everyone else interested in the state of Ice Melee to stop playing the game just as long to listen to what I have to say.

So don't lose heart Tundy. I'm a patient person. After all, I played MA/SR without damage enhancements until the mid-40s on Redlynne (go go No Get Hitsu!) back in the pre-ED days, so it's not as if I suffer from Short Attention Span Theatre.

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The least I should have done was really read them and said if I felt she was still on the right track, or if there were grevous flaws. She deserved a lot better then to be largely ignored.

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You're forgiven Tundy. It's okay. You're forgiven.

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No one person or Otter can do this alone.

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And you're not alone. You're not.

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For a long while I felt I was alone during the final few pages of 2.0 and now when Redlynne needed support I abandoned her.

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Like I said ... I can be patient. I'd rather you take your time and think things through than try to rush things. No rush.

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I feel like I've failed not just her, but the entire community.

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Okay, I'm not going to let you take all that on your shoulders alone.

/powexec_name Taunt

You have received Catch a Breath from Redlynne.
You have received Respite from Redlynne.
You have received Breakfree from Redlynne.

Rest up Tundy, and come back into the fray when your toggles are up again. I can Fight The Good Fight ... but it just isn't the same without you, ya know?

Besides ... who else can I talk fashion with (for hours at a time)?

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It's only now thinking back over this summer and spring, at all the Fixing Ice Melee threads that it seems like I was in a way the leader the community rallied around.

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The first rule of leadership is:
Earn respect before commanding it.

The community rallied around you Tundy because you earned our/everyone's respect. It also helped that you knew what you were talking about ... ... unlike some people (such as myself).

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Still, even though my math was weak and I didn't do some of the exhaustive number gathering and crunching, it feels like I was the Mother for the movement. Encourging, pitching in, propping things up when they faltered.

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Everyone has their own unique talents and skills. Mine just happen to be game mechanics (and the rules lawyering thereof) and superheroic/supervillainous fashion sense. You've got more "people powers" than math powers perhaps, but that hardly "disqualifies" you from being a valued, trusted and admired member of the community. Far from it in fact.

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Maybe I'm wrong and am just over blowing my role in the threads over the last few months. Maybe.

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In one sense, you're not ... and in another, you are. It's not that you (personally) stopped posting, it's that everyone else kinda sorta took a holiday from posting and the well dried up all on its own.

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I can't pour my heart and soul into the fight and feel like I am alone. That is exactly how I felt at the end of 2.0. So, not good-bye, rather throwing in the towel on the fight.

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It's hard to go on ... feeling like you're screaming in an empty room ... with no one to hear you.

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I am really sorry I couldn't get you all the changes the set needs.

I am sorry.

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NOT YOUR FAULT.

Keep the flame of faith alive, Tundara ... you aren't a soloist on this one.

Allow me to add my voice to saying that the Meet 'n' Greet was a fabulous outing, and that it was wonderful to meet Cricket, Ex Libris, Cuppa Jo and The Defuser(!) in person. I believe I was also hanging around at one point over near Miss Informed.

And of course ... Ghost Widow.

Absolutely fantastic cosplay there, going above and beyond ... even signing people's badges as Ghost Widow ...

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I put this list together of people on the boards that said they'll be going or possibly going:

From TX
Mad_Malkavian
BillZBubba Pinnacle/Guardian
MissInformed Justice
Escher
Texas Justice Justice
Balorn
Sleestacky Liberty
KnightOwl
Nameless_Hero
SuperGoober Justice
DiscoChild Justice
Rachael_Storm
Soul_Train
Horatus
Omega_Brawler
Palabras_Son
Solarexx Virtue/Champion
Nameless Hero Virtue

Out of State
Manoa CA - Justice

Possibly Attending
Belabras
Rooftop_Raider
Rei_kun
Keitaro
Burning_Brawler
Penny_Cillin
Kirbyrockz
mr_sachmo

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From TX
Redlynne Virtue

The amount of goodwill that could be generated by appointing a Community Liason between the base building community and the dev team is one of the greatest missed opportunities we have seen to date.

Where do I sign (and how many times will it take)?

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As an aside, does anyone know why Touch of Death only has a 15% chance? I'm hoping that was an oversight and it will be pushed up to 20% one of these days. Sure, negative damage is less resisted than smashing or lethal, but psionic isn't resisted very often either, and those are all 20%.

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I'm afraid you answered your own question. The NE Proc in Touch of Death is a 15% chance, instead of 20%, precisely because NE Damage is resisted less.

The reason why the Psionic Damage Procs are all 20% is because the only power types that can take those Procs are ones with mezz effects, and consequently tend to have longer recharge times than the equivalent Melee or Ranged attack power designed around inflicting damage. Thus in actual gameplay, even though the proc chance is higher, they tend to inflict as much damage per hour of gameplay as a more resisted damage type which is able to be used more often (and thus proc more times against higher resistances).

At least, that's my understanding of the structure we have to work with ...

A subtle but minor point which may help avoid confusion for some people (like me) ...

The reason why some Click powers, such as the various rains (etc.), are allowed "a second bite at the apple" after 10 seconds is because such powers are encoded as a long chain of high speed activations, rather than as a single "lump sum" effect. This is the same behavioral model as is being used by Toggles, which use multiple activations of their effect over a period of time (such as Damage Auras, etc.). It is this "continuous activations over time" behavior which allows for additional Proc Chance(s) after 10 seconds have elapsed, rather than a simple boolean question of "Toggle? (Y/N)" that one might otherwise expect.

Thus ... Click powers such as Rains and burning Oil Slick get an additional chance to Proc every 10 seconds ... while long duration effects such as Click Fear powers only get a chance to Proc on the initial cast, since they are not continually "activating" themselves over time like a Damage Aura or a Rain would.



Note:
Oil Slick can actually be slotted with Positron's Blast, which has an Energy Damage Proc in the set. Unfortunately(?), the "damage" side of the power does not come into play until the deployed Oil Slick is lit and burning ... at which point it starts doing damage and THEN the Energy Damage Proc starts checking for chance to do damage to all (hapless) targets within the flames. So, unfortunately, Oil Slick is not "self-igniting" with Positron's Blast slotted, but can make use of the Proc once lit.

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Also, I think it's worth mentioning that the proc damage IOs go that much farther in quick animation time attacks than they do on the slow ones.

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Oh there's no doubt of that. Faster animating/recharging click powers deliver more "bang for buck" on proc IOs simply by virtue of being used more often.

That's part of the reason why I wish I could "afford" to slot Entropic Chaos into my Dark Blast, rather than Ruin ... so I could take advantage of the Heal Proc IO in Entropic Chaos when chaining TK/DB/AS endlessly. Unfortunately, I "can't" because I'm using the 5-slot bonus from Ruin to max out my AoE Defense ... and I don't have a spare slot left over to just slot the proc IO.

Still, that doesn't mean some other enterprising scrapper couldn't slot their Dark Blast ... or Laser Beam Eyes ... or Shuriken(?) ... with the Entropic Chaos proc IO for an "offensive healing" attack in their build via the combination of rapid recharge and rapid animation times. It wouldn't be "as good" as Aid Self per se, let alone a slotted up Aid Self, but would be a lot better than nothing (post-40).

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The nice thing about Eagles Claw is that it has very good DPE. Though its DPS falls behind both Storm Kick's and Crane Kick's, its lower DPE means that its inclusion in an attack chain allows you to pump out more damage before you need to rest.

Also, its higher crit chance and 75% stun chance are pretty nice side effects.

[/ QUOTE ]
Quoted For Emphasis.

Although in terms of "raw damage" EC may look like it lags on a few critical areas ... DPA, DPS per animation, a few others ... it actually isn't "that far behind" once you start factoring in such things as the extra chance to crit. Also, EC "accelerates" rather favorably with Recharge Reduction, in part (oddly and counter-intuitively enough) because of its long animation time. The 12 second base recharge on 3 seconds of animation looks bad on the face of things, but with as "little" as +50% recharge those numbers shrink down to 8 seconds of recharge on 3 seconds of animation. +100% recharge (easily obtainable for Hasten builds) drops that down to 6 seconds of recharge on 3 seconds of animation.

What you wind up with is a power that, when accelerated, can be spammed very quickly, with a superior Damage Per Endurance efficiency ratio (extending fighting longevity), that will tend to crit more often than your other attacks will ... which in turn improves arrest rate more than another power might on "raw damage" alone.

And besides ... Eagles Claw simply wins all Style Contests hands down.

Boot to the Head!

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If you can't afford the GINORMOUS cost of the top-rank IO sets for MA, I recommend Kinetic Combat as an effective and relatively inexpensive (and thematic) alternative. Slot all five of the set in each attack and cap it off with an SO or the Acc/Dam IO of your choice (I went with Focused Smite - it seemed appropriate).

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You know, I've looked and looked and looked at Kinetic Combat, and I still can't get past the fact that it's only got a Acc/Dam enhancement for +Accuracy. That's basically DO level aspiring to reach SO level accuracy ... which in my experience is "not enough" for the task. Yeah the set makes you move faster, but beyond that ... I'm kinda unconvinced that it's all that great for melee throughput, for reasons of low built-in accuracy in the set.

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What IS the secondary you're running?

[/ QUOTE ]
MA/SR/Darkness + Flight, Fitness, Medicine and Leadership.

If you want to see the build details ... Redlynne: "No Get Hitsu" I10 IO Freespec

Oh and before you ask ... yes ... I use Hover as my "travel" power (along with Sprint).

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Because I really don't know how you have all of these free slots to throw on four-to-six-slotted Red Fortunes or the spare space for Assault, if you're running /SR.

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Actually, the secret was to min/max Martial Arts in the sense that I don't have "more attacks than I can use" like most MA scrappers. Even though I've got "minimal" attacks from Martial Arts, I can still animate an almost unbroken attack chain, and because I'm using fewer powers to do it, I can in fact use my available slots "more efficiently" to maximize those powers that I am (constantly) using non-stop.

Mind you, I'm using a PvE oriented build.

[ QUOTE ]
I attempted a stun spec with my SR on test today, and it performed approximately as well against Invincible Minions and Lieutenants, but Bosses were giving me trouble and EBs were taking twice as long to go down.

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It REALLY depends on how you build ... and it also depends on what you're comfortable with. Prior to respec (et al.) when using Damage SOs (3 each in damaging attack powers), it would take me "4 attacks" (with a crit being +1 attack for these purposes) to down a level 50 minion while street hunting in Peregrine Island using Storm Kick and Air Superiority. Now after the respec, slotted up with Razzle Dazzles, it takes me "4 attacks" to defeat a Minion with Thunder Kick and Air Superiority. Sometimes "3 attacks" if doing the Thunder Kick/Dark Blast/Air Superiority chain (which has the teensiest fraction of a second of downtime between repeats and cycles in about 5 seconds total) thanks to Touch of Death and the Negative Energy Proc and Dark Blast's less resisted NE Damage. That's essentially 5 to 6 seconds of animations (or less!) per Minion, indefintely, without stopping.

Eagles Claw will often one-shot or set up for a two-shot defeat on Minions, so against these Foes, the DPS loss is practically non-existent. It only makes a difference really against Bosses and Lieutenants, where I might need to animate an extra attack or few ... but on the flipside, I'm taking so much less damage than before that I can afford the loss of offensive damage throughput simply because my longevity has been increased so dramatically by the gains on the defensive side of the equation. Essentially, I'm living higher above the Immortality Line than I was before, so there's less pressure to DEFEAT *NOW* DAMNIT!!!

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Additionally, it sounds you went from a suboptimal damage spec to an optimal stun spec. If you had neither Hasten nor incidental Recharge Reductions in your attacks, then you're cycling through a lot of weak attacks.

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The charge has been levelled against me before ... but consider.
2x Air Superiority = 1x Crane Kick
If you take a look at City of Data, you'll see that pretty much across the board, Air Superiority has stats that are half those of Crane Kick. Half the damage, half the endurance, half the recharge ... etc. etc. etc. ... which means that in the time it takes some one else to use 1 Crane Kick, I've used 2 Air Superiority attacks ... dumping my Foe(s) on the ground twice, rather than just the once (in addition to stacking the -Fly effect). So yeah, my Damage Per Attack (DPA) might be lower than other scrappers, but my Damage Per Second (DPS) throughput is about the same or only slightly less, rather than being dramatically less by using "smaller attacks faster" because I was able to build an efficient attack chain, and possibly because I'm "wasting" less damage on overkill by using smaller attacks more often. These are, of course, factors that do not yield easily to spreadsheet analysis.

The attack chain I was using prior to IOs was:
TK, AS, CS, TK, EC, TK, AS, (pause) ... Repeat (I think, it's been a little while)
I had all three (damaging) attacks slotted out with +100% Damage (3 SOs), but no recharge reduction (other than Quickness). In part this was because recharge reduction wouldn't have helped, my animations couldn't be accelerated and they were practically chained together non-stop already anyway ... so no help to be found there. Yes I was using "low damage attacks" but I was using them A LOT, giving me plenty of "offensive control" through stun procs on TK+EC and the knockdown on AS, and with hardly any downtime and was able to "chew through spawns" pretty rapidly (for a single-target specialist), relying on my defenses to give me the longevity to out-endure my foes. I never claimed I was "the fastest" scrapper out there, but there were plenty of times when I was the last one standing ... if not the only one left standing when the team wiped (except me).

After the respec to IOs, The attack chain accelerated to the point where TK now recharges almost as fast as AS animates. It's something that isn't inherently obvious looking at the powers list, nor when importing the hash into Mid's Planner to see the specifics ... but it IS something that you can "feel" when playing with the build I'm using. To be honest, I was really surprised that it doesn't "feel" like I've "lost" any offensive power by switching to Razzle Dazzle ... even though I know, I know, that on paper there's no question that I've paid a price in offense in order to maximize my defense(s). This isn't something that yields easily to spreadsheet analysis, so I'm not sure I can adequately explain it to you here in the forums. I guess the only way to REALLY bring the point home would be to arrange for a demonstration on the Test Server sometime.

Fair warning, there is a "house of cards" aspect (or Jenga, if you prefer that image) to the build I'm using, since there are so many interlocking parts in it. So if you look at my build and start tinkering with it to suit your own needs and preferences, taking bits but not the unified whole, understand that the synergies I've found may "fall apart" on you if you stray too far ...

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I don't build especially for Recharge, but i try to fit it in.

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Historically, I found Recharge Reduction to be the "enemy" of keeping my blue bar from crashing down to zero and detoggling my defenses. With the IO Respec I was rather surprised to see that even with the (to me anyway) extreme acceleration of my powers through set bonuses, with the completed build I was not "hurting" for endurance ... even when constantly fighting. The net recovery is negative over time, but only very slightly so I'll need to be constantly fighting for over a minute before the blue bar becomes an issue ... and when it does, I've always got Elude to remedy it, just in case I can't "take a break" just then from combat (see: AVs).

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The six-slot Razzle Dazzle, while interesting, results in quite a bit more than a 25% damage loss though. It's actually a 50% damage loss on each of those attacks, which is really sizable. (Unless you meant a 25% damage loss in the attack cycle.) Either way, that's a lot of DPS lost - a lot of it burst.

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Actually, prior to the respec, I had accuracy, damage and endurance reduction slotted into my attacks ... no recharge reduction. The Razzle Dazzle set has no damage enhancement in it, granted, but on the flipside it does have a "decent" amount of recharge included in it. So doing a little theory-crafting, I calculated the difference in final throughput of DPS on my three main attacks, when computing for animation and recharge time and damage per attack. What wound up happening is that a ~40 DPS attack turned into a ~30 DPS attack after switching to Razzle Dazzle ... rather than the ~20 DPS that I had feared ... in part largely because of the recharge rate (which I'd never slotted for before because my attack chain was "full" of animations already). Then after slotting up Red Fortune five times (+10% Damage combined set bonus) and running Assault (another +10% Damage buff), a substantial portion of my "lost" DPS was restored to the overall build even though I didn't have damage enhancements slotted in my attacks anymore.

Like I said, counter-intuitive ... and the weirdest thing is ... IT WORKS. I certainly haven't "felt" like I've lost a major fraction of my damage dealing potential, while at the same time the number of hits I take has been reduced to approximately one-quarter of what it was prior to the respec. I've "lost" maybe 15% of my damage output in exchange for reducing incoming damage by over 65% of my pre-respec performance. To me, that was a rather worthwhile trade ... and I'm actually "more powerful" now as a result of it. I sincerely doubt that anyone else would be willing to make the compromises that I did though so, YMMV.

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However, I don't think *these* are really good points in favor of Cobra Strike. I was speaking from memory; a 10% chance is even worse than a 20% chance (...why yes, I am a master of the obvious!) and EC's very high chance of stun is countered by a very low base stun duration and a high inherent recharge and activation time on the attack. That said, I am definitely incorporating your information (presumably you don't mind?)

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Mind? Of course I don't mind!
I'd be a lot more annoyed if you ignored me ...

And just think, I didn't even mention the advantage of being able to "switch off" Tsoo Sorcerers in the teens and twenties so that they aren't constantly teleporting around (out of easy reach, making you chase them down), debuffing your accuracy with Hurricane (which, being a melee range only scrapper, can be a problem), or healing all the other Tsoo that you might be beating down at the time.

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Do sappers really live that long? I don't find them especially tough

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They may not be difficult for Defense-based protections to handle, but they're the absolute BANE of anyone who doesn't have Defense ... which will usually include most of the rest of your teammates under nominal circumstances. And even if Sappers don't usually throw their AoE End Drain attack first normally, it's going to be the second one they toss out (in someone's direction) ... and even if it MISSes you, there's still the AoE splash radius to consider, which just might catch a substantial number of your teammates.

So even though as an */SR you're "better protected than most people" against Sappers, very very few other people will be. So out of concern for your teammates, if nothing else, you need to think of these issues.

And then there's the fact that if you've got Cobra Strike and Petrifying Gaze, both slotted up to perma status, you can take TWO Lieutenants out of the fight ... allowing you to deal with them sequentially rather than in parallel. This is especially important when soloing Kora Fruit missions in the Shadow Shard and you run across spawns of three Rularuu Eyeballs together ... which since they've all got (multiple) attacks that go through defenses like hot butter through toilet paper is a very important tactical advantage.

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And again, speaking from the standpoint of a /SR, I'm much more worried about a Gunslinger than a Sapper.

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Well, with Cobra Strike slotted up for perma double stack status, you can stop being afraid of those Gunslingers ... especially if they're Boss level Gunslingers.

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But your 23.4 second duration is only true of even con mobs. Mez duration scales down as you fight higher level mobs.

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Level Scaling Guide
+1 Foes: You have a 65% chance to hit and your powers are 90% effective.
+2 Foes: You have a 56% chance to hit and your powers are 80% effective.
+3 Foes: You have a 48% chance to hit and your powers are 65% effective.
+4 Foes: You have a 39% chance to hit and your powers are 48% effective.

As far as Duration goes, you'll be able to briefly double stack Cobra Strike on a +3 Boss ... assuming you don't MISS, which can be a problem since your base To Hit has dropped from 75% to 48% (ie. PvP-ish accuracy). This is still "useful" in the sense that by stunning a Boss at all, you'll still detoggle them, in addition to buying yourself a little extra time (which to a */SR is a valuable commodity with respect to recovering from damage and staying above the Immortality Line of rate of incoming damage, since extra time allows you regen ticks and lets you respond to your situation).

Against a +4 Boss the double stack of Cobra Strike cannot be reached, but the power can (when slotted as indicated) still maintain a perma MAG 3 stun on a +4 Foe ... assuming you don't MISS. However ... Cobra Strike can still stack its stun with that of Thunder Kick and Eagles Claw to (oh so briefly) stack enough stun to affect a +4 Boss (when they proc) and detoggle them (at least for a couple seconds).

Of course, if you're fighting +4s, you're in over your head anyway ... because if a +4 Boss hits you, you're either nearly dead already or merely waiting for the coup-de-gras to finish the job on you off ... and even with maximal Defense, they'll still have an almost 10% chance to hit you anyway, so it shouldn't take long. Meanwhile, you're going to be whiffing air a lot and even when your attacks do connect, they'll be doing half damage ... so you'll be "engaged" for a while ...


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So I wonder at what point stacking Cobra Strike becomes impossible. I suspect that it's at +3 mobs, and might even be at +2 mobs.

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The Cobra Strike double stack is still quite effective against +2 Foes, although markedly reduced (but not eliminated!) when fighting +3 Foes. This is when being able to stack with the procs of Thunder Kick and Eagles Claw starts becoming a MAJOR contribution to stunning power.

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Considering how many folks routinely fight +3s and above after they hit their 30s, this may be why you have to work so hard to combat this "mistake."

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Actually, I think the reason is because there is a perception that Cobra Strike isn't an "IWIN!" button against Bosses when unslotted that the power is worthless.

One other thing that I should point out about TK+CS+EC is that all three of these powers can be 6-slotted with ... Razzle Dazzle. Now while this will mean you'll take a hit on offensive output with TK and EC (approximately -25% once everything gets computed, not including modifiers from other set bonuses) ... but ... in compensation you'll get, from a triple 6-slot Razzle Dazzle ... +6% Recovery, +4.5% Max HP, +6% Stun Duration plus +7.5% Melee and AoE Defense ... which, believe me, brings you darn close to the 45% soft cap on defense. Build in five 6-slot Red Fortune sets, and not only is some of the damage output loss of slotting Razzle Dazzle reversed, but all of your powers now recharge fast enough to return Cobra Strike to near-perma double stack status (it's just a couple seconds shy of perma-double).

Then again ... I don't use Hasten ... so figure in the difference THAT makes if you want it in your build.

The nice compensation is that the stun duration on Thunder Kick is increased to 11.6 seconds, and on Eagles Claw it's 7.8 seconds (with the slotting I'm using) ... which is hardly insignificant, when they proc. And since the recharge on Thunder Kick is so low with the way I've got my powers slotted up, at 1.65 seconds, it's basically got a 10% chance to proc just about every 3 seconds or so. So figure that during an 11.6 second duration following a TK stun, there's three 10% chances of a second stun proccing just from Thunder Kick for another 11.6 seconds. If any of THOSE double stack ... that's a stunned Boss, without Cobra Strike being in play ... and with Cobra Strike already applied, that's three 10% chances to stun a Boss even before Cobra Strike double stacks on itself. So even though the chance per attack is low, I've "stacked the deck" in my favor rather significantly with respect to Boss Stunning Power ... and that's even without including Eagles Claw into the equation.

Suffice to say, whatever I'm fighting usually doesn't do a whole lot of fighting back, since I've essentially got MORE stunning power working for me than an Energy Melee hero/villain can throughput.

Getting to the point where that is even possible requires dedication and some sacrifices ... but believe you me, The Way of NO GET HITSU can be extremely rewarding once mastered.

Simply "getting there" to that point can seem highly counter-intuitive though, not to mention going against the grain of the Conventional Wisdom concerning what powers to take, and how to slot them. But then again, I'm not exactly your "typical" scrapper.

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I don't know what RedLynne plays at, difficulty-wise. (And/Or until she can inform us.)

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Usually I'm playing at whatever difficulty the team leader is at, since someone else usually has the star. Of course, the reputation slider makes almost no difference when solo farming for salvage in the Storm Palace and fighting level 53 Storm Elemental Bosses that hang in the sky the way that bricks don't.

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Tough enemies that */SRs laugh at.

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Malta
Carnies
Circle of Thorns
Council (after slotting up Evasion)
Nemesis
Rularuu/Lanaruu (except Eyeballs)
Rikti
Praetorians

And of that list, I'd say the Rikti are the "easiest" to fight, in part because they use so few AoE attacks that it is often possible to detoggle Evasion quite safely.

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Tough enemies that are not a */SR's friend.

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Devouring Earth with Quartz Emanators out
Rularuu/Lanaruu Eyeballs
Nemesis Lieutenants in LARGE Quantities (Vengance stacking shreds your Defenses)
+4 (and up) Foes
Arch-Villains
Mind Control/* Controllers and Dominators
Accuracy and To-hit Buffs on Foes (which run rampant and are the norm in PvP)

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Cobra Strike
Cobra Strike is the closest thing to a 'controversial' move this powerset has. Doing absolutely worthless damage, it has a long duration disorient of Magnitude 3. It can definitely be a useful move at lower levels; the problem is at higher levels. Most Controllers focus on Immobilization or Hold for their secondary effects, meaning that it's harder to stack mags to overcome bosses; at higher levels, the lieutenants and minions die too fast to worry about Cobra Strike.

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I keep seeing this mistake made over and over and over and over ... and I wish I didn't have to keep educating people about this.

Cobra Strike has a 20 second recharge and a 12 second stun duration. With +95% Stun Duration and +86% Recharge Reduction (ie. 3 Stun SOs and 2 Recharge SOs plus Quickness) those numbers "reverse" to become 10.7 seconds recharge and 23.4 seconds stun duration. With that kind of performance you can perma double stack Cobra Strike quite reliably on a single target (such as, say, a Boss) since the recharge is less than half of the duration. This gives you a reliable MAG 3+3=6 Stun that you can maintain for as long as you don't miss with Cobra Strike, and it'll only take you 12 seconds to reach the double stack, perma-Stun point (assuming you don't MISS).

This is Boss Killing Power to be able to take Bosses not only "out of the fight" and drop their toggles (if any), but also to keep them "drunkified" until they faceplant at your feet. Cobra Strike doesn't "do the damage" that makes this possible ... but it does do the "damage" which allows you to use a great many other powers with impunity and not fear Boss Damage in retribution. It dramatically improves your survival rate and almost single-handedly (no pun intended) can be tactically game changing.

And for those players for whom 12 seconds is "an eternity" during which the team has not only defeated the entire spawn that was just aggroed, but also moved on to defeat the next floor of mobs and left you two elevator rides behind ... there are other stuns in Martial Arts that can be stacked with Cobra Strike to stun Bosses with while "waiting" through the initial 12 seconds for Cobra Strike to recharge after the first hit. Eagles Claw has a 75% chance to stun and Thunder Kick has a 10% chance to stun (not 20% as stated by the OP). If either of these two attacks proc, they stack sufficiently with Cobra Strike to stun a Boss.

So for my butt-kicking pleasure, the CS+TK+EC trinity is synergistically "unfair" to foes because it basically removes them from combat while I bring them to their knees, in defeat, at my feet. It also takes a tremendous load off your defenses, and the mitigation they have to provide, to "defeat by perma-Stun" first and then be able to mop up afterwards through damage dealing.

Cobra Strike is only controversial for people who don't know:
1. How to slot it
2. How to use it in conjunction with their other powers for maximum tactical effectiveness



And don't even get me started on how game changingly useful Petrifying Gaze is for a Scrapper ... especially since it can be made perma with (again) +95% Hold duration and +86% Recharge. Petrifying Gaze is THE anti-Sapper power, hands down ... although Cobra Strike can also do the job (in a pinch) if you don't mind eating the Sapper's alpha-strike while you close range.