Redlynne

Unless ordered by Go To command or a Stay command to exceed that range.

Yeah, that ought to cover the exception ...

Makes me wonder how much better Placate would be if its casting time were 0.73 seconds (ie. the same as Hide's animation), rather than the 1.5 seconds "This is not the Stalker you're looking for..." Hand Wave of HIT ME NAO!!!!

My expectation is that a Stalker is an AT which sacrifices multiple powers between their Primary AND their Secondary powersets in order to "get" (access to) a group of Signature Powers that are only available to Stalkers. One of those powers, we don't even get a choice on ... HIDE. My *expectation* is that those powers which only Stalkers have access to are the defining and Signature Powers of the Archetype. And as the defining and Signature Powers of the Archetype, the *synergies* of those powers are what the Archetype should be organized around ... which means that those powers should be "relevant" at all times (ie. not *just* when out of combat or alpha striking/ambushing) and that these powers ought to be "frequently usable" within the context of high speed combat which characterizes 99% of the game mechanics for City of Heroes.

That means that, in my opinion, any buffing of the Stalker Archetype ought to involve strengthening the uniquely Signature Powers that Stalkers have access to First and Foremost ... namely Assassin Strike, Placate and Hide ... in ways which synergize these powers together more effectively than they have been to date.

The simple fact of the matter is that the Issue 22 (proposed) buffs to Stalker involve enhancing Assassin Strike ... ignoring the multi-year Known Issues with Placate ... and keeping Hide as irrelevant as possible. Out of three powers that could have been buffed, only ONE is having any changes made to it ... and those changes don't help the other two Signature Powers of Stalkers in any meaningful way.

This is why I personally consider the Assassin's Focus mechanic, as revealed at the Player Summit, to be a DISservice to the Stalker Archetype as a whole. Substantially the same *effect* can be achieved, by other means, which would increase the usefulness of Placate and Hide ... but that's not where the Powers Team went with their (proposed) changes.



If anything, the Assassin's Focus mechanic simply goes to show that Assassin Strike, as we've known it up until now, isn't doing the job it was designed for ... because the *synergies* needed to support it aren't there. I for one wish that the Powers Team would have chosen to go another route where they strengthened the power synergies between Assassin Strike, Placate and Hide ... rather than the course that they have chosen (and which has yet to hit the Test Server).

I like him as far as I can throw him (off a very tall building). Doesn't everyone?

I agree with you Jibikao. Putting an Interrupt into a Melee attack is simply BAD DESIGN.

Which means that all that REALLY needs to be done to Assassin Strike is to remove the Interrupt from the power ENTIRELY. No Interrupt when Hidden ... no Interrupt when Not Hidden. No Interrupt AT ALL. And suddenly, the power Assassin Strike is *much better* than it ever was before ... and any sort of "Titan Weapon-izing" of Assassin Strike to make it USABLE out of Hide simply becomes a Moot Point.

Which then begs the question ... why didn't the Powers Team reach for the most obvious and easiest solution to make Assassin Strike more useful as part of a mainline attack chain by simply eliminating the Interrupt Time from the Power(s)? It's not as if any of the Assassin Strike powers can be slotted for Interrupt Reduction anyway ...

Two words ...



INSTANT GRATIFICATION



By making Stalkers more like Scrappers, the Devs are indulging the Players' desire for Instant Gratification in a way that is instantly recognizable and doesn't require any "thought" or real strategizing on the part of the Players. It happens, it's automatic, and it doesn't require any attention span/situational awareness to be able to make use of it. The CRIT NAO rather than Crit Later (even if "later" is the very next attack cued up in your attack chain!) is something that everyone can intuitively grasp.

Or to put it another way ... "A Crit in the hand, is safer than the one that *might* land on your next attack."

Everyone wants to go for the "sure thing" as well as the "easy thing" ... and people figure that leveraging Hide (and its mechanics) is neither of those things because it would be more complicated (and require actually Paying Attention to what's happening, as opposed to just button mashing brainlessly).



The funny thing is ... I'm pretty darn sure it ought to be perfectly possible to rig up a power in the game which detoggles Hide, *instantly recharges it*, and then in the very *next* Arcanatime Moment toggles Hide back on with a minimal animation time (ie. not the 0.73 second animation usually used when toggling on the power normally). We know that being able to toggleoff/toggleon is possible, because we use it in keybinds all the time. We know that being able to instantly recharge a power is possible, because Kinetic Combat does it for Build Up when Concentrated Strike scores a Critical Hit. And we know that alternate animations can be used for powers, because that's the key technology that makes Momentum for Titan Weapons possible.

And why would doing something like that be useful? Because being able to do something like an auto toggleoff/toggleon of Hide in near zero time would make it perfectly possible to have ALL Stalker (single target primary attack) Critical Hits "re-engage Hide" DURING combat as the signature means a Stalker uses to deliver Double Damage to targets. It wouldn't be "instant" double damage like a Scrapper does with their Critical Hits ... but it would make the Hide power a combat relevant power since Stalkers would "naturally" flicker in and out of Hide DURING combat.

And that would be very interesting game mechanically, since Hide isn't *just* about How Not To Be Seen. There are additional buffs (and I'm thinking about the Defenses) to be gained by being Hidden, which ... as Smiling Joe has already pointed out ... includes things like being able to maneuver to escape a bad situation much more reliably.

Furthermore, it ought to even be perfectly possible to code this behavior of Instant Hide On (single target primary attack) Critical Hit (when not already Hidden) during combat to include an 8 ft PBAoE Placate effect as a "freebie" bonus, allowing the Instant Hide to be much more effective against Foes within Melee Range. The only downside to this of course would be that Stalkers would make singularly ineffective Aggro Magnets (filed under the heading of, "Well, DUH!").



Note carefully how everything I'm saying here does not require "Scraptastic" gimmicks to achieve Stalker-ish performance, and instead better leverages already existing Signature Stalker Abilities to achieve the same results by a completely different method. It increases the value of a power that EVERY STALKER IS FORCED TO TAKE ... that otherwise has next to No Value once combat is begun ... and it leads to additional tactical possibilities which otherwise might not be available when using other game mechanical solutions. And because of the "1-2 combo" involved in dealing double damage *this way* being more "complicated" than just simply inflicting double damage *instantly* like Scrappers do ... it creates a system where Player Skill and Situational Awareness can be rewarded in ways that Scrapper Critical Hits cannot be, making the Stalker AT "more unique" and diversifying it away from its melee powerset cousins.



But because it doesn't involve Instant Gratification ... people don't want it.

Seems pretty simple to understand to me, Joe.

Because the Devs are AFRAID of something they shouldn't worry about as Devs.

"Heroes discover water in swimming pool to be as deep as the open waters of Independence Port, Talos Island, Founders Falls and the Atlantic Ocean around Peregrine Island. CREY Industries reportedly researching the possibility of water with greater depths than 3 feet in other dimensions through new collaborative partnership with Portal Corp. Dr. Aeon reported to be intrigued by the scientific possibilities of alternate worlds with water deep enough to dive into."

I'm highly amused by this ... since it essentially means that I "called it" when talking to Dr Aeon at the Player Summit after the Signature Story Arcs panel when everyone was breaking up to head out into the halls. I told Dr Aeon that *I* as a Player, of both Heroes and Villains, wanted to be the one responsible for CHOOSING the Death of Statesman ... and that his death would not only put Lord Recluse and Emperor Cole "on notice" but also (and I quote myself) "create a power vacuum which the Players would then need to fill" (unquote).

I'm feeling rather pleased with myself now ... since Zwillinger used precisely that phrasing for his announcement.

Making Placate "better" and more reliable ought to be Job #1 for making Stalkers more Stalker-ish. Easiest thing in the world to do is to reduce the recharge time on Placate for all primary powersets so it can be used more often. Second easiest thing to do would be to key some way to instantly recharge Placate off some circumstance of using a different power (or combination of powers) ... like how Concentrated Strike in Kinetic Melee instantly recharges Build Up with a Critical Hit.

The most interesting thing that could be done would be to turn Placate into a Target AoE so as to make the power more useful/reliable in "dogpile" situations.

A design goal ... no. An unfortunate and almost inescapable side effect ... most definitely.



So here's an interesting thought ... and it's probably something I should post in my [Counter-proposal] thread ...

What if Critical Hits with primary powerset single target attacks (other than Assassin Strike) gave you a self-buff that was essentially a "marker" which lasted for ... oh ... say ... 8 seconds (I'm just picking a number out of the air here). If during those 8 seconds *after* you scored a Critical Hit with a Single Target Primary Attack Power, you use Assassin Strike ... and not only instantly gain Hidden Status after Assassin Strike lands ... but your Placate power is instantly recharged.

Note that this means that technically if you've got this "marker" buff on yourself, using Assassin Strike from Hide wouldn't break Hide (although at the programming level, it might, due to event timing).

Furthermore, all of the Build Up powers could be coded to automatically give you this self-buff "marker" power in addition to all the other effects.

It's a gimmick to make Stalkers "not be Stalkers" and turn them into Scrappers. And like you said, it's to ensure that Hide is even less relevant to the 99% of game content that is Combat than it has been up until now.

And once again, Gravity Control gets the short straw ...

Of the changes proposed here ... only 1 of them do I approve of, after long consideration and weighing of the alternatives.

That one option I approve of is the increase to Stalker Max HP (and I do so unreservedly).



I do not, however, approve of "Titan Weaponizing" the Assassin Strike powers to use dual animations for in/out of Hidden status. Likewise, I do not approve of the proposed Assassin Focus mechanic, on the grounds that it is a "gimmicky" approach to solving the fundamental problems underlying the Stalker AT. It is far too much of an "all eggs in one basket" (ie. Assassin Strike only) approach.

In my opinion, the "aim point" of the animation changes to Assassin Strike and the "combo-ish" stacking of Assassin's Focus are (unfortunately) misplaced. I do however think that trying to normalize the animation times of the various Assassin Strike animations in all the primary powersets is a worthwhile goal, so that there aren't primary powersets that are "advantaged" by having a faster (or slower?) Assassin Strike power.



What Assassin Strike really needs is a means to reduce its Interrupt Time. This could either be accomplished by allowing the Assassin Strike powers in all of the primary powersets to slot Interrupt Reduction (and make use of it) ... or by converting the Assassin's Focus buff effect into being a stackable +100% Interrupt Reduction Buff to Self so as to reduce Interrupt Time not only on Assassin Strike, but also on the Snipe powers available through Mace, Mu and Soul Mastery.

3 second "normalized" Assassin Strike animation time (all powersets), with 2 second Interrupt duration

• 0 charges of Assassin's Focus: 2 sec Interrupt
• 1 charge of Assassin's Focus: 1 sec Interrupt
• 2 charges of Assassin's Focus: 0.67 sec Interrupt
• 3 charges of Assassin's Focus: 0.5 sec Interrupt

7.33 to 8 sec Snipe power animation times (Mace, Mu, Soul Mastery), with 6 second Interrupt duration

• 0 charges of Assassin's Focus: 6 sec Interrupt
• 1 charge of Assassin's Focus: 3 sec Interrupt
• 2 charges of Assassin's Focus: 2 sec Interrupt
• 3 charges of Assassin's Focus: 1.5 sec Interrupt

The "rules" for building up Assassin's Focus can even follow the Street Justice model of making every single target attack except for Assassin Strike in the Stalker primary powersets grant charges to Assassin's Focus when those powers Critically Hit, up to a max stack of 3 charges. The duration on the charges of Assassin's Focus could be set to be something longer duration than what Street Justice uses for its Combo system, so there isn't quite as much "use it or lose it" pressure. I'm thinking something on the order of 30 seconds duration on the Assassin's Focus charges, so that you could "bank" them from spawn group to spawn group, and have enough time to maneuver into an optimal position before opening up on the next group of hostiles.

Note that making the granting of charges of Assassin's Focus dependent upon Critical Hits ... whether In or Out of Hidden status ... will mean that in Team situations, Assassin's Focus will typically be earned faster due to the higher chance to Critically Hit when near Teammates. It also means that the "guaranteed Critical Hit from Hide" would automatically grant a charge of Assassin's Focus to single target primary powerset attacks other than Assassin Strike when they are used, which could create some interesting Edge Case scenarios for alternative sequencing of Assassin Strike in an attack chain would be optimal ... such as when dealing with Auto-hit Damage Attacks that are essentially run by Toggle Powers, where a No Focus Interrupt makes Assassin Strike a less than optimal opening attack choice (yes, I'm looking at you, TPN Trial...).

Assassin's Focus would be used/consumed/expired by Assassin Strike or by the Mace, Mu, Soul Mastery Snipe attacks to reduce their Interrupt Times. An additional "capstone" benefit could be added such that with three stacks of Assassin's Focus, when using Assassin Strike, your Placate power would be instantly Recharged ... much like how Critical Hits using Concentrated Strike in the Kinetic Melee powerset are (supposed to) instantly Recharge the Build Up power. It is my firm belief that giving Players an additional avenue to being able to use the Stalker's Signature Power of Placate more often, as a "reward" for using a triple Assassin's Focus plus Assassin Strike combination (in addition to the Interrupt Time reduction making the entire combo "useful" during mainline combat, with or without Hide) ... would make the more "frequent" use of Assassin Strike an *appealing* option for more players, because doing so would then directly feed into an opportunity for an immediate follow on combo of Placate plus Tier 9 "finisher" attack for those situations where Assassin Strike on its own is "insufficient" to one-shot defeat a Boss (or higher ranking) Foe.

Assassin's Focus could also be used to make Assassin Strike attacks "meaningful" against Elite Boss and Archvillain/Hero class Foes by applying a Grant Power effect which would cause the Suppression of the Purple Triangles of Doom per charge of Assassin's Focus used in the Assassin Strike. This could be something as simple as 2 seconds of Suppression to PToD per charge of Assassin's Focus (so "stackable" up to 6 seconds with 3 charges), with a "delay window" of double that duration before the Grant Power Suppress can be reapplied to the $Target. So if using a single charge, that means 2 seconds of Suppression with an additional 2 seconds delay afterwards before the effect can be re-applied (usually by another Stalker on the Team/League). If using a triple charge, that means 6 seconds of Suppression with an additional 6 seconds of delay afterwards before the effect can be reapplied. Since this effect operates via Grant Power effect, which involves the $Target casting the effect on themselves, by adding a Effect Does Not Stack From Same Caster into the Granted Power it should be easily possible to prevent this power effect from "overstacking" in ways which cause the permanent disruption of PToD on EB/AV Foes.

Being able to "take down" the PToD on EB/AV class Foes at will, at the Player's discretion ... even for short periods of time ... would be a remarkably powerful ability, which actually "fits in" with the Archetype's theme remarkably well. It would also be something which "no other Archetype can do" ... which would give Stalkers an unparalleled niche role in "dealing with" what can easily be considered the "hardest targets" in the entire game. It also creates a situation where Players can be rewarded for being cooperative and coordinating their attacks with others to maximum effect, due to the interaction of the underlying game mechanics in group situations.

Since the power to "take down" an EB/AV class Foe's PToD *is* such a powerful potential ability ... I would recommend that the Grant Power effect only take place on a Critical Hit when using Assassin Strike with 1-3 charges of Assassin's Focus. Note making this effect contingent upon Critical Hits means that this Debuff has a chance to be applied when using Assassin Strike when NOT Hidden, with a higher chance for it to happen dependent on how many Teammates are "close by" to increase the Stalker's native chance for Critical Hits ... *or* ... can be applied automatically when using Assassin Strike when in Hidden status! I haven't exactly "run the numbers" for an analysis (since I just came up with this idea while writing this post), but it's entirely possible that it may prove "profitable" to a Stalker (and their Team/League) to engage in mainline combat long enough to accrue a stack of Assassin's Focus, fall back out of combat (if possible), gain Hide, and then re-enter combat with a Focused Assassin Strike which in aggregate, over time yields a better "throughput performance" for damage dealt to $Target by engaging in Hit And Fade combat tactics than simply Stand And Slog combat could produce ... even when accounting for the lost DPS of waiting for Hide to Unsuppress to make an "on demand" dropping of PToD reliably happen against an EB/AV.



And speaking of Placate ... can we get an Animation Time Reduction on this power so it takes only 1 second to cast instead of 1.5 seconds? At the very least, reduce the cast time down to 1.17 seconds (to match Build Up) so that there's less of a DPS Penalty associated with using Placate due to time spent not attacking.



If you want Stalkers to do "more damage" than they have (been), and if you want to make Assassin Strike useful in more ways than just for alpha strikes from Hide ... then as Devs you really need to stop trying to find ways to "gimmick" Stalkers to improvement via the game mechanical changes announced at the Player Summit, and instead concentrate on trying to find ways to allow Stalkers to use their signature (dare I say, ought to be Inherent?) powers more often in ways that the Players can CONTROL, so as to create situations where Player Skill are rewarded due to situational awareness and a willingness to adapt to fluid situations ... rather than finding new ways to throw the Random Number Generator into the mix. We don't need "new" game mechanical gimmicks to allow Stalkers to Critically Hit more often ... we need synergistic game mechanics which allow us to use the tools we've already got with greater frequency and under more conditions than we're presently allowed to get away with. If you want to give us a way to "do more Critical Hits" ... find a way to let us use Hide and/or Placate more in order *DO* those Critical Hits "on demand" in response to dynamic situations of gameplay. The "Assassination" effects are already baked into the primary powersets for Stalkers ... just let us USE THEM MORE and you'll see an improvement in not only Stalker damage throughput in datamining, but also an increased appreciation for the tactical complexities of an Archetype that isn't just "Hit Things Till They Faceplant" in ways that are little different from the Scrapper or Brute Archetypes.



Your move, Powers Team Devs.

Actually ... if you wanted to make Stalkers a "terror" to AVs and EBs ... you'd code Assassin Strike from Hide to Suppress PToD via a Grant Power effect. The suppression would only last for like 6 seconds (ie. shorter than the wait for Hide to unSuppress) ... but still ... that's a LOT OF RESISTANCES being dropped, even for a teeny tiny short window of opportunity, and you'd be able to keep doing it repeatedly by using *GASP!* *SHOCK!* *HORROR!* Hit and Run tactics to the benefit of your Team/League.

Three guesses what that would do to "demand" for Stalkers on TFs/SFs/iTrials (and the first two don't count).

Oh no ... you're not blaming that one on me! No way! I will *not* accept any responsibility of any kind for your builds getting better! Nyuh-uh! Nope!



(sorry, just couldn't resist the obvious silly for this one!)