Ravenswing

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but I have just had so much fun playing closet-heroic villains that I wanted to comment.

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And in the end, I guess that's what really counts. If you're having fun doing so, then there should be no problem.

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Totally agree here, but I'd add the rider: So long as your fun doesn't destroy someone else's.

I fail to remember where the thread is, but Castle (I think) was quoted as saying that he had made some changes to Clwas and they were much better. Unfortunately, they were so much better that they couldn't stay like that.

I believe he suggested that the overall DPS of the set was about 20% better than any other scrapper primary, and, of course, Claws is low cost. The ringing screams of "UNFAIR" would probably deafen the planet were that to be brought in.

Apparently, Claws needs more work still.

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Don't choose it, I don't see anyone in their right mind choosing Katana and SR.

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He's right, I've got a kat/sr and I'm not in my right mind... wibble.

(PS. kat/sr is probably going to be awesome come next issue if the Def scaling gets fixed.)

Um, sorry I missed this... what on Earth is going on here?
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01 : Sting of the Wasp acc(01) acc(5) dam(7) dam(11) dam(11) dam(13)


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What's with the four-slotted damage, it's a waste. Change one for recred, and do that for any other attacks you've got dlotted that way.

You don't have Hasten in there, which is fine, but you'll have a bit of a tacky attack chain with a single recred in your attacks.

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04 : Reconstruction recred(04) recred(37) recred(37) hel(45) hel(45) hel(50)


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You can save a slot here, the third recred gains you an extra second or so on the cycle time. It isn't worth it, put the slot somewhere else.

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18 : The Lotus Drops acc(18) dam(19) dam(19) dam(21) dam(36) dam(36)


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You have heard of ED, right?

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30 : Stamina endrec(30) endrec(34) endrec(36)


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You don't need this on Katana. Get Stamina, sure, but don't add extra slots, they're more useful elsewhere. (I have Integration with no endred on it. I can teleport the length of Indy Port with Integration running and not run out of steam.)

You're taking Dull Pain way too late. Not only does it increase your hit points, but it gives you a huge emergency heal, AND using it increases the effectiveness of Integration, IH, Fast Healing, everything because the amount the heal is based on a percentage of your max HP (which DP just raised).

Phase Shift is (IMHO) totally useless nowadays. So is the rest of the Concealment Pool. In PvP, it'll make no difference since everyone is terified of Stalkers and has huge +Perception buffs running. The Def Buffs on Stealth are pretty worthless now. You'll do much better relying on Divine Avalanch for defense buffing.

MoG (IMO) is a useful situational power. The trick is to know when NOT to use it.

Once you know that it is INSTANT DEATH against anything auto-hit or with psionics (and maybe toxic), you're okay.

It has its greatest use against Malta, where not only does it stop you getting hit, but it also has a huge recovery boost, but it also makes a good emergency button as long as you remember when not to use it.

As with a great many final secondary powers, MoG is a lot suckier than it should be, and it shouldn't be in the Regen power set. However, it has its uses.

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he started from the outside, removing the guards one by one.

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Luckily, all military types are inherently stupid in comic books and never post guards in pairs, or make sure that sentry walkways are overlooked by guard towers, or any other basic precaution to make this kind of thing fail miserably after the first couple of guards are taken out.

Looks like a nice piece of writing. Keep at it.

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There exists another possibility for a character of "noble" virtues, a dedicated medic/healer who exists to make people whole and well no matter their alignment, sure they might be causing more harm by keeping scum alive but they are still doing good surely?

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And, currently, there is no dedicated medic/healer in the CoV AT set.

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It also raises the issue of how will the villains find out that the character is opposed to them?

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Of course, if they never do, then it doesn't matter.

Of course, since there is actually nothing you can do to disrupt any PC villains in the course of your actions, you won't actually be able to stop them doing anything.

If you did try to do something to stop them, then there is a possibility that you would be discovered. If you were discovered, would you be willing to have your character killed?

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If a person wishes to engage in combat with my char then they can take it to a pvp or arean zone, which I know is not fluidic or perfect way of dealing with the situation. But it is the only real way provided to those who choose to role play in this non role play game.

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Not really. We handle RP combat via a different mechanism, such as the Fudge rules, quite often running the actual game in IRC. Doing it in IRC is basically just so we don't need to worry about actually creating a cast of a hundred NPCs in game, IRC is not inherently better at being a text-based RP system.

Roleplaying combat in CoH would require them to actually balance the PvP system, for one thing. it's about doable in the Arenas, I wouldn't like to even consider doing it in a PvP zone.

I'm not going to look these up, so I'm assuming the kinetics effects you're describing have a To Hit roll? If yes, then you take option A and 'leave yourself open to bad roleplayers.'

Frankly, you are always open to bad roleplayers, doesn't mean you should be one. If a kinetics 'attack' has a to hit roll then there's a chance it can miss. Equally, the target may be immune to slow effects (for example) meaning that your option D is god-modding.

If there isn't a to hit roll for these powers then it's different, but I'm pretty sure that the only players powers left without to hit rolls are direct and aura heals. I've used Transfusion and I seem to remember missing with it.


Oh, and if it's really so important whether or not your powers affect a situation, I'd suggest taking it to the Arena and actually playing it out.

Unlike Syra, I can't let this one slide...

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Which is the mindset you'd expect from villains, no? The impression I got, from having played both sides of the stories, is that the villains are doing pretty much what you're doing here: putting their own perspective on the situation and deriving a result based on that. The heroic contacts seem much more minded ( in the main) to viewing the situation objectively.

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Now, I haven't seen the villain side of these, but I have done a substantial amount of the hero stuff. I find the hero contacts are also doing a lot of exactly what I expect from a lot of do-gooders. The Clockwork King is a genius trapped in an insane brain. Vazy isn't as bad as he seems. Nemesis could have done so much for the world if he had been good. The villains tend to be cynical, but the heroes don't really seem terribly objective either.


On another note: Is CoH a four-colour comic world? Yeah, I think it is, mostly. The villains do have more depth than a true four-colour world, but a lot of them are just out to take over the world or gain power and money.


I think this discussion has got too hung up on Good and Evil. Those are human concepts, subject to interpretation. It's also nothing to do with the OP's original 'question', which was about playing a basically 'good' character in CoV.

Oi! Z! You forgot Jessica. I know she's currently Zortel, but she's independent as well.

Oh... a new entry... (EDIT: There's now a Misc entry for jess-isms for you to fill in, Z.)

Oh, Leif, I adjusted your definition of when GG is to make it more technically accurate and also so the Scots and Welsh won't be around your house with clubs.

This is fun!

I've added a definition for brrodding (see Crow's entry).

I've added me, and War Crow, and a Resources section on basic rules of conduct.

This could be fun.

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And I'd like to know if how I RP actually shows up as a bloke typing in the manner of a super heroine / villainess - discuss

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I don't know your characters, so it's a little difficult to tell.

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most villain plots actually end up being very heroic at the end of the day.

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Okay, only 14 levels in, but every time I've 'rescued' someone, it's been because I was ransoming them, or trying to get information from them. Just because the mission format is identical to a CoH mission format, doesn't mean the outcome is the same.

You quote two instances where the outcome isn't bad, I could give you several dozen from the first 14 levels where the outcoming isn't good at all.

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Overall I think the only truly evil stories I've done have been beating up the major heroes (BAB, Aurora etc.)

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You didn't mission for the contact who is a Voodoo priest and you're helping him gain more power through murder, blackmail, etc? The arc I've just finished is working for a guy who even the other villains say is pure evil. You haven't done newspaper missions to kidnap someone to protect your identity? You haven't taken out Longbow or Wyvern installations? (I know I have.)

The majority of missions in CoV have very little moral ambiguity. You're in it for the money. You're in it in some cases, for the glory of killing another human being. That's not good.

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I'd have to disagree with that. On the surface, as in most of the comics that inspired it, CoX is 'black and white'. However, you don't have to scratch very deep to find a lot more ambiguity in many of the plots and arcs.

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Really? I honestly can't think of very much depth to the plots in CoH and the contacts I've come across in CoV have been, to say the least, almost pure evil.

Could you maybe give a couple of examples? Anyone?

I'm also racking my brain for reference to these occaisions when you have to kill a victim or blow up everyone in a lab. For heaven's sake, we are expected to believe that we arrest Devouring Earth creatures! I know I certainly ignore that particular aspect of the game; War Crow uses them for fertiliser, it's why his roses are so... thorny.


I'd also argue, and I think I have, that playing villains who think they aren't evil is not the same as playing a hero who uses methods not unlike a villain. Yes, your villain can be more or less evil, but a hero would not be doing half the stuff he's asked to do in CoV.

It's actually easier to fudge in CoH because there's more content, the arcs are less linear. In CoV with it's very linear storyline, you can't just skip the magic contact because your character doesn't 'do magic', or whatever.

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As the group gains the trust and respect of the citizens, and the fear of the gangs, they could slowly rise to a point where they could either wage a guerilla war against Arachnos, possibly coming to the attention of Longbow or Wyvern, who would then offer aid of their own.
Now, this can't posibly happen in-game, of course, because we can't change the game world.

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And that's exactly why it's a bad idea to do it. Lord Recluse might find them amusing, even useful to 'test' his people, but other players' characters would be inclined to want to kill these interlopers (which is what they do with Longbow and Wyvern afterall).

So, group roleplay with these characters becomes one of two things:

Never go near another group.

or...

Fudge and god-modding are the order of the day until, fundamentally, the situation will resolve itself as no one will RP with the group anymore.

The only other alternative is that you become a very good RPer and retire your character when someone kills it, which shouldn't take long.

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A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that any kind of heroic figure would not last ten minutes in the Rogue Isles

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I wouldn't, I had Jason running around the place for a couple of weeks. Then again, he kept his nose clean, didn't go around beating up the natives and he knows how to act like a villain (having had periods in history where he made Recluse look like an amateur).

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Not to mention the fact that Longbow can operate on the Rogue Isles themselves, often mere yards from Arachnos troops.

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I'm afraid that just demonstrates bad game design and standard MMO problems. Longbow 'can operate' because their agents simply respawn after they've been offed by the natives. It's exactly the same problem as the Hellions having an inexhaustible supply of recruits to beat people up on Paragon City street corners.

It makes no sense at all, but the game wouldn't work if it didn't happen.

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And that, for me, is a lot more pointless than changing a few small details so that you and your friends can enjoy the game more.

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Playing a hero in CoV doesn't mean changing a few small details. You would have to totally rewrite every single mission you did, change the nature of pretty much all the contacts, everything.

To be honest, Nevermore doesn't work in CoH without changing huge amounts of detail regarding the contacts either, but the layer of fudge doesn't need to be nearly as thick as that needed to make the CoV setting work with an anti-hero.


No one seems to have answered one point I think I made earlier:

What, exactly, is the reason for doing this?
If your answer is simply "because I want to play a hero fighting against Arachnos" then, cool, but there's no point trying to justify it or roleplay it against the levelling game. It just doesn't work.
If your answer is "playing a villain doesn't appeal to me" then why are you bothering to create a CoV character? I have one villain character. She's plot. She doesn't need to exist, but since I own CoV I might as well play it, but I'm going to play a villain because that's what the game is about.

PS. I realise we aren't going to agree about this. It's just an interesting debate.

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Does that make me a bad, secretive person?

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No, but it does make you someone who'll hate Global Friends.

Worth noting that /regen is a bit of a weak set for a Stalker. Your regeneration powers work on a percentage of your max hit points, and that is lower than a /regen Scrapper of the same level. As a result, /regen Stalkers tend to have less survivability than /regen Scrappers.

Also of note, come I7, you should be seeing /nin and /sr being more effective as the defense scaling adjustments come into play. This will make /regen even weaker compared to the defense-based secondaries.

Really? Looks like it does. Hey ho.

Resilience getting less and less useful... I suppose it has a point if I have to use an Awaken.

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Resilience has Stun resist and is described as resisting Disorientation effects.


[/ QUOTE ]I'd say it's likely to resist both stun and disorient seeing as they are 2 names for the same effect... :/

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Glad to hear it, that's what I was saying if you read the rest of my post and not just that line.

I'd be willing to believe that the Revive description is wrong. Warcry claims you rez with all your hits and no endurance, as does Coldfront. The society of gamers says half.

I have a vague memory of a patch note that said heal enhancements affected the amount you got when you came back.

Be interesting to see what the in-game description actually says now, but I understand the servers are down.

There's a big thread already about DM/regen.

No, you can't have perma-hasten, you'll get a 45 second gap in Hasten coverage with 3 SOs.

Dull Pain should be a must have anyway, it means you have more hit points, so you regen faster.

Reconstruction is a good buy, 2-slotted for rec red it can be fired about once every 35 seconds.

IH is now a clicky and MoG now has an insane recharge time. Doesn't make either of them useless, just means you can't be perma-IH or perma-MoG.

Integration is now your best regen power, you need to at least 3-slot it for heal.

You'll probably find your endurance management is pretty good. They reduced all the endurance costs by 13% and my DM/regen (without Stamina) doesn't really have any trouble.

You can get a pretty good attack chain by taking Air Superiority and using that to fill in the gaps. You need to take Hasten (and suffer the gap) or two slot your attacks with rec red, which cuts damage output. Your choice.

What Rooney said. Unless they've never changed the description, but have changed the power, you're wrong, Innigo.

I think you'll find that Stun and Disorient are used to mean the same thing. Integration has Moderate Stun resist and is described as resisting Disorient.

Resilience has Stun resist and is described as resisting Disorientation effects.

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Hence, under almost all normal circumstances, Disorient/Stun should never take down a /regen running Integration. Resilience is just icing, but I do have it because, when I get Rez'd by an Empath, it does put me back in the fight instantly.

Blast you, now I have to go checking sources.

For the record, I've never had a character with Revive, I'm working on statistics. I've never seen the point of having Revive except for concept.

Um...

Since Revive will bring you back with half hits and no endurance, and you'll be unable to recover endurance for some time, I think that an Awaken is actually about as good as Revive is.

Where you perhaps thinking of the way Resurrection works?

Resilience only protects against Disorientation. It will eliminate the time after a Rez when you are disoriented, which will get you back in the fight faster, but using Revive you'll still have no endurance.

Resilience probably won't help with toggle drops. In my experience, toggles on a Regen scrapper drop due to endurance loss, not disorientation. Integration has a huge disorient resistance anyway (though not as big as it once was). The other way would be in PvP and, AFAIK, things like Brawl just drop a random toggle, they don't need to disorient you to do it.