Ravenswing

If you're getting worse than CoV beta, that's really, really bad. I gave up on CoV beta because I got about 0.5fps when I moved.

I have to say... you guys didn't see this when the Arena issue went live (I4?). Now, that was laggy. This is... well bad, but it sounds like different experiences for different people and I4 was just universaly lousy.

I don't think there are enough instances in this game. We need more instances. Why would I want to see other player's characters in the game when I log in? It should be instanced from login to logout!

This would be an obvious massive saving in development time since there's no longer a need to balance missions for anything other than a solo character and you could get rid of all those annoying channels, like Broadcast, and Say. Who wants to talk to other players? Huh?

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How about.. The Protrastinatortron?

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You just made that up! That's not a real word!

Sister Psyche's Patented "We can read your mind you know" Morality Qauntifier!

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woho... Thread out of track!
How unusual!

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Nope. In fact, the only posts on this thread which have been offtopic have been yours. (It's a joke thread. The serious discussion is in the other one.)

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And yours, of course... and this one unless I can think of something stupid to add. Hang on...

Ah...

The TeaandCakeorDeath-o-meter!

Phew!

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Hi Ravenswing well i left it vague on purpose so other ppl could add their ideias but the concept idea is that the hero or villain can create different shapes, weapons, armors and items made from solid energy this could be used for both blasting, melee combat, armors and maybe control sets

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Okay, but...

Let's take a Scrapper primary set as an example. Fundamentally, with weapon customisation, I can make a katana scrapper with an energy blade, or I can make a claws scrapper with weird claws, or, whatever else. Swapping between them for different attacks would greatly raise animation times and make the set virtually unusable. If all that happens is you can pick different vfx for the attacks on the fly, it's just another set (broadsword, perhaps) with dynamic visuals. I can't think of any mechnism that makes the ability useful that would not be just a tad OP.

Without more detail on what you want to have happen, it's next to impossible to judge if it's a good idea or not. Or even if the game engine is likely to be capable of handling it.

I'm sure some ATs could take a power set using a concept like this, but I'm not totally sure that it adds anything to the existing sets.

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The only thing that really annoys me is when people classify PvPers as uneducated or with any other characterization because they PvP or because they met one idiot or two that made their life miserable in a PvP zone.

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My own dislike of PvPers stems from my days running a NWN server and, actually, I don't dislike PvPers, I dislike PKers. There used to be a difference. Maybe there still is.

Most of the regular PvPers on the server were competitive, sure, and they trash talked some, but it was generally "good natured banter" and you could set it aside.

Then we would get the pillocks who came in (not always, but often, on hacked characters) for the express purpose of killing characters specifically to ruin the player's game. That's a PKer. They had guilds, they would invade en-mass. I would go in on a GM character and blast their bones out if it was a mass, or on a specially scripted character if it was just one. They always hated getting smushed by an apparently normal character more than a GM character.

Anyway, that was my education in the various different types of PvPers, and I learned to differentiate the two, so I don't make generalisations.

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On the other hand, how many people won't create anything if there's no incentive beyond just creating something?

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Not saying there should be no incentive, but making special bits of mission creating gear part of that incentive just makes it more likely that people with good ratings will always get good ratings.

One thing we said about the Arenas when they came out (be we, I mean the roleplayers) was that the random allocation of maps made the system next to useless for roleplay. The reason for random allocation was to stop the session originator from 'fixing' the game by picking a favourable map. It was actually one of the PvPers who pointed out that this only really mattered in rated matches. The same principle could be applied, with restrictions on content type for published missions and not private ones, but it still has a lot of disadvantages.

I'd rather see badges or vet-type rewards for getting good ratings over time.

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To be honest I can't see the ratings and rewards system as a competitive thing anyway.

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Really? You're even less competitive than I am then. MMOs have levels because the players like them. They like them (surveys say) because it's a method of comparing yourself to other players. CoX seems a little less prone to it than some games, but even here we have the "how fast can I get my character to level 50" crowd.

I'd imagine it's an entirely in-game rating system.

I'd imagine people will 'review' missions on the forums, but you don't have to read the forums.

OTOH, I think you're underestimating how sensitive people can be about getting very low scores, even without nasty comments to go with them. Indeed, that can be worse. You could give someone a low rating, but think they show promise, but if you have no way of saying that, then all they see is a low rating. Everyone hates them, they give up. Creative folks are like that. *goes off to be emo over a story no one's read yet*

(( I wasn't planning on combat, unless Emily decides she really doesn't like Seven. ))

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The lag on union is insane. Powers indicate they are recharged when they are not.

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To be fair, that's old and happens all the time on some powers. Rest is a massive culprit. It pretty much always actually becomes available about a second after the icon goes active.

Yep, been laggy as hell since they put the new patch back, I think. I've mostly noticed it as glitches in animation periodically and delays in power activation requests actually marking the power as queued. Weirdly, Teleport doesn't seem to suffer too much because the game actually freezes for a fraction, so you are left hanging, expecting to fall, but the hover is delayed as well as the activation, so you don't.

Haven't had much rubber-banding and all my disconnects are down to my lousy ISP anyway.

(( My apologies for not getting to this last night, I was not having a good evening. Can we arrange a day/time when all three of you will be online? We'll run through a bit of in-game roleplay where everyone goes have a look around Johnovich's apartment. ))

I'd suggest working up a more detailed description of what you see in the set(s). The 'Energy Constructs' bit itself is so overly generic that it's difficult to see what you're getting at.

Y'know, if I go into a PvP Zone, then that's my call and someone can kill me as much as they like, or are capable of. I don't like it, obviously, since I'm probably there for some reason and they're stopping me doing whatever it is, but that's what PvP Zones are for... PvP. I even enjoy a bit of PvP among friends, "just for the fun of it." I'm not a competitive person, really, so 'competitive PvP' does nothing for me.

What I hate is people crowing over the corpses, or calling you chicken for running from an unbalanced fight (and I suck at PvP, so all fights are unbalanced ), or swearing at you if you do manage to stab them in the face. It may be better to just ignore stuff like that (and I'm not accusing you or your SG of doing that, Tainted, you actually don't really seem the type), but there's also no actual need to do it. It demonstrates the maturity of a newly spawned earthworm, and it does leave the perpetrator open to petition if they use the wrong words.

I know I'd probably PvP more if I didn't expect the opposition to have an average mental age of three, an expectation I got from observation. (Oh, and it would help if I didn't have to dedicate my entire character and playtime to doing it. Always did agree that some form of switchable PvP build was a good idea. )

Anyhoo, yes, as far as I'm aware, you can petition someone for acting against the EULA, but even there the rules on harassment are a bit more loosely applied than they are in other areas. I mean, I think it's Siren's Call which actively encourages harassment by placing a bounty on the defeat of specific characters... Kind of a signpost that the rules are a little different in PvP Zones.

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The unlockable system promotes people creating better-rated missions because they created a few initial missions that got good ratings. So, especially with 'play more from this author' type links, a few people end up creating the universally acknoeledged great missions and everyone else may as well give up as their missions will pale into insignificance without the same unlockables.

So here the playing masses lose out and end up only really seeing content from a relatively few people (the early ratings-winners).

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Totally agree.


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The private-invitation-only system could easily, in my opinion, lead to most people keeping all their output as private-only. Why bother trying to create a good mission accessible to the masses when you mainly want something for you and your mates?

So here the masses lose out as they end up only really seeing content from a relatively few people (as most keep their works private).

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Obviously, I disagree here, otherwise we wouldn't be having the discussion. And, yes, I think you are being pessimistic.

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Of course I may be overly pessimistic about the standard of public works if the private/public split was used. But it's worth bearing in mind that the potential mission creators are your teammates on the last PuG you were in with 2 or 3 jumped up, aggressive teenagers who couldn't spell 'hi' without a typo or 1337txtspk.

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Now, you aren't being pessimistic about the number of pretty sucky missions/arcs we'll see out there. There will be loads of them. However, making everything public will not improve that in the least.

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Why risk the ridicule of the general playerbase?

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Sorry to take that out of context, but it relates heavily with the section above. If everyone's work goes public, and you don't want to risk the ridicule of the masses, then that means you don't create missions. You have been locked out of a game mechanism by that game mechanism's competitive function. If you don't want to compete, don't want the ridicule, then disallowing you from creating something while avoiding the ridicule is not going to result in more good modules, it's going to result in less people creating anything.


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A really well crafted NWN module takes months to get right.

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I don't play NWN and we haven't a definite idea of the CoX PPC features/process, so comparing them is somewhat difficult!

But note that my 7 days from last edit is merely an example time span, and that it is 'from last edit' - so you could take years on a mission arc if you wanted.

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Yes, you could, making that limit pretty much useless. Plus, what happens when someone goes on holiday for a week...

I am not expecting the in-game mission creator to have even 10% of the flexibility of NWN's module editor. (Aside from anything else, if you were good at modelling, or voices, or art, you could add your own objects into game, or have your NPCs give voice-overs, and that's not going to happen in CoX.) However, creating a well crafted mission is going to take time, and your limitation is based entirely on the idea that all missions must be published in order to get any reasonable content out. Obviously, I disagree with that premise and so don't agree that creation times should be limited.

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But how do you judge someone if they're anonymous?

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You aren't supposed to be judging the person, you're supposed to be judging the mission or story arc. You don't need to know who created it to do that.

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I'm not sure why game studioes don't do much payed for content if it helps move the game forward.

Freebies are all nice and fine, but patience isn't my strong side

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Freebies can be done in bits and pieces, so they can essentially be released faster.

If you're having to pay real money for an expansion, you generally expect it to contain a lot of content and be well tested and bug free. Hence paid expansions take huge amounts of development time and come out at a slow rate.

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I think that having the option to keep missions private would almost guarantee that most missions would be kept private. Or maybe just most good missions which are done for friends... I'm sure we'd see a more than adequate supply of poorly written dross just so that prepubescents can play at being god/a dev.

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The Neverwinter Nights modding community suggests that you are both right and wrong. Yes, there will be a plentiful supply of rubbish, but there will also be a plentiful supply of well written story arcs produced by people who (if it isn't all anonymous) will become famous, and appear in web articles, and eventually get jobs at NCNC.

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Thinking to P&P scenarios, I'd rather see missions written so that they make sense to everyone, but make more sense to your RP group if you're there to elaborate... Heck if we need a 2-tier system have it act like customising a bought scenario works, so one standard mission and a few 'tweaks' for your RP group. i.e. have a set mission with some changes conditional upon the mission creator being in the team.

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Fair, but you're thinking of published P&P scenarios. Those have to be fairly open to all. 90% of actual P&P scenarios are created by the GM for the specific group. Those are almost always the best since the GM can place things in the set designed to challenge the specific capabilities of the characters.

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I think I was the person who pointed out that unlockables based upon ratings would lead to mission-writing monopolies. I'm wary of that as it would create a 2-tier system, but I'm also wary of keeping missions private/invitation-only for similar reasons.

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Sorry, I don't get the connection between those.

The unlockable system promotes people getting good ratings for getting good ratings.

Private maps lets people not take part in the competition if they don't want to, and believe me, plenty of talented people will want to.

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Of course they'll have to be some way to test missions and test them at various team sizes, so there'll probably have to be some scope for private testing... but I'd limit it by number of missions or by time to persuade people not to horde PCC missions. Maybe something like 1 arc per account in invite-only multiplayer test, or each account stays in test for 7 days from last edit unless actively published.

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A really well crafted NWN module takes months to get right.

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Sorry Ravenswing, only just saw this!

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That's okay, only just posted it.

Find a different name for Vacuum maybe? Not sure what that name has to do with storms.

Or how about replacing it with something like: Fog Bank, which is a small cloud that reduces ToHit and slows the target since he can't see where he's going.

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Have you sugested this before? I recall someone a year or more ago suggesting this or something very similar...

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I don't think it's an entirely new concept. Plenty of players with Batman-esque, detective-type heroes have wanted this kind of thing for a while. It makes your hero feel more proactive. You actively go out to street sweep, discover evidence of crimes and act on it, rather than being directed to things by contacts.

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- When someone is clearly using a 3rd party macro program?

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Not sure how you can tell, but this is against the EULA. If you have evidence and can explain it to a GM's satisfaction, this is petitionable.

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- Being Tp'd out of base entrance and killed, while clearly AFK?
- Being killed, then hunted down repeatedly by the same person when you're a first timer in the zone?
- After being droned once?
- After being droned repeatedly?
- When one side uses a spy on the other side to hunt down someone?
- When one side confuses that spy to take down the other sides second account buffer that's hidden in the base?

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Last I heard, just about everything else is a legitimate tactic if the game lets you do it.

Mind you, I'm not even sure what that last one means...

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Cakeometer

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CakeorDeath-o-meter?

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I doubt cut scene's will make it in. When I was chatting with War Witch at Omega Sektor, she said they were incredibly difficult to set up. It's a lot more than just the dialog; it's the avatar positions and emotes, plus the camera angles as well. The timings are big issue also. I'd be surprised if they let us do them, considering they themselves find them a chore.

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Cutscenes are incredibly difficult to set up in NWN2, a game designed so that ordinary spods with half a brain and a PC can create their own modules. I somehow can't imagine that setting up a cutscene in CoX, where the editor systems are designed for use by professionals like War Witch, is going to be any easier.



Okay, regarding the rating system and unlockable content: Hell no. Dumbest bit of the entire scheme. Why does everything have to be a damn competition?

To give an example, let's say I don't care about creating competitive missions for rating by some bloke in Texas, let's say I want to create some missions for a roleplay session I'm going to have with friends. I make them and use them, but I'm not designing them to be challenging, or make sense because the bloke in Texas won't have me there telling people what's going on. So, my missions are consistently rated low and I never/very slowly get access to this higher end unlockable content (which may or may not improve the modules I can write in the future, but I won't know because I'm not interested in catering to the masses).

Example two, and one that someone has pointed out, I'm sure, is that people who aren't that good are going to continue to be rated low because people who are better constantly get access to new unlockables faster.

As the library of missions grows larger and larger, it's going to be harder and harder to get anyone to play any of your missions, so you are going to get fewer and fewer ratings. In all likelihood, the system will devolve into people playing their friends' missions most of the time.

I would suggest that the system work at two levels. When you create a mission, you can keep it private and run it with other people on an invitation basis. Most importantly, you can keep it that way. If you want to publish it for others to use, then there's an option to do that. Put a rating system in and have a league table. But don't unlock extra mission aspects based on rating, hand out badges or award rare recipes, or something, so there's an even playing field for the content.

My 2 Inf.