Ravenswing

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just thought I'd add the perspective of another player who quite likes the idea of PvP but will probably never do it because every experiment so far has been completely unenjoyable.

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This is something PvPers don't seem to get, actually. They seem to think getting wiped in two hits is a learning experience. There's lots of comments about learning from getting killed and being better in the future, but PvP combat is frequently too fast and deadly for you to figure out why you're dead. If you don't even know what killed you, how can you get around it. And that's ignoring the Stalker issue.

(( I'll be away from tomorrow until Monday/Tuesday next week at a LRP event. We'll pick things up with something I'll think of over the weekend toward the end of next week. ))

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No, that behaviour hasn't changed. And no, such experiences are not 'fun', 'a challenge', or 'a show of skill'.

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The bit you quote happened this week. I'd be amazed if that had changed since ganking lone targets and the CoH equivalent of saplock are going to be used unless there's no way of doing it.

The bit of behaviour that may have changed is the mechanics of Placate.

(The following is based on game behaviour a while back and may have changed, but I doubt it.)

IMO, Placate is overpowered. Last time I had Crow in RV, a Stalker wanted to play tag. Now, with FA running, I could see him coming. He got his AS off, but I hit Dull Pain and turned to attack... and he hit Placate. Now, I could still see him, but I couldn't target him, so he ran or flew or something off and there was really nothing much I could do to respond.

If Placate just dropped your attention and reasserted Hide, that would be fair, but it also blocks targetting for several seconds, so having +Perc just means you can see them while they run away.


More recent experience: I took my DB/WP Scrapper into SC to do a patrol and get a nice +Stealth gadget. And, hey, I like to give the sharks a taste of new flesh once in a while.

Walk in the gate, turn on toggles, including IR Goggles. I see a villain. Then I spent about 5 minutes trying to get out of line of sight at the pace of a stoned slug as I got multiply frozen. To be fair, I did find it hilarious that they hit me with every slowing effect they could manage (there was more than one doing it) and still couldn't manage to kill me after all that time in the open.

Anyway, I defrosted and came out again by which time they had found an easier victim, so I bounced off to run the patrol route. About half way around I got nailed by a Stalker (spines, I think). Never saw him, not before or after the attack. If someone would like to explain how that's 'fun,' or 'a challenge,' or in any way 'a show of skill' then go ahead, I'd like a good laugh.

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The majority of the time, the zones are dead anyway with no more than 2 people, it's only on peak times on a night where you get more than 10 people in the zone, so this queuing system would fail.

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That's why you pool all the potential players from both sides of the Atlantic using the Battlezone servers.

And I can't believe anyone took that even vaguely seriously.

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You adapt. If you're melee and you come up against a ranged player and get your backside handed to you, you find a way to overcome that. It gets you thinking.

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Why am I reminded of my boss cutting my deadline in half and telling me "don't think of it as a problem, think of it as a challenge"?

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Probably because it's the same concept. Adapt and die.

No, I mean 'and', there's no 'or' involved.

I know. When you enter a PvP Zone, you could enter a queue which would let you into an Instance of the zone when a suitable number of players on both side were available. Of course, to make sure there were always enough players they would probably have to share the Instance servers between all the game servers.

Hmm, yes, we could call them, um... Battlezones! Yeah, great idea. I'm on a roll. Pretty sure no one has come up with this before.

Hmm? What's a 'WoW?'

As I said, I suspect it has to do with the fact that the enhancement pop-up 'covers' the power, so making a click harder to place.

Since they did not use the same code, it seems likely there is some reason. However, the coding in this game is notoriously bad at reuse (ever noticed how the stations all behave in slightly different ways to each other?) so it may just be they never put the code in that display.

I can't believe we're still having this discussion. It's been going on since PvP was put in the game and it's still going on, with exactly the same suggestions and arguments.

The dual-build idea has been floating for 3 or 4 years. There was never a satisfactory way to deal with enhancements that I can recall.

And it is highly unlikely that even that would do more than encourage a couple of players to do some casual PvP once in a while. I would, for example, until I got fed up with PvP jerks and had to go away until I'd forgotten they were there again.

And I want a medal too. I don't think PvP is an abomination, I think a significant minority of PvPers are an abomination.


Oh, and a casual PvE Scrapper will get his behind handed to him in a doggy bag most of the time in a PvP zone.

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PvP was there from the start but only via the arena.
The areas were there anyway, if they worked in issue 0 i don't remember, i've still not set foot in one.

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The Arenas weren't there at all until I4 or I5.

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I4. Slow, BF, very slow.

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PvP was there from the start but only via the arena.
The areas were there anyway, if they worked in issue 0 i don't remember, i've still not set foot in one.

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Neko... do not speak of what you were not around for. It makes you look... well, young.

The Arenas were not even in the game when it went live in the EU, about a year after the US release. We went live just after Issue 3 was released, IIRC, and the Arenas were introduced in Issue 4 (The Collosseum) which was a horribly buggy experience.

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The reason PvP is not so popular in this game is because a)was never advertised depite the original design had PvP in it

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I've never bought this. Yes, there's that video of the prototype suggesting that PvP was in from scratch, but the majority of the evidence regarding the way PvP is implemented suggests that any original design was scrapped and that PvP was glued in (or back in) using super glue and chewing gum when CoV was heading for the shelves.

At a guess, PvP was pulled because it was not needed with no player villains. By the time it was needed, the original design had been changed so much (to something that actually worked, such is the way of designs) without consideration of PvP that we have the current "glued on as an afterthought" system. I've seen it in other systems. Hell, I've written things where someone wanted some feature put back in and had to be told it was impossible or would take ages because the design no longer accomodated it, even though it was in the original design.

Seems fair, though I think it's rather simple to do without.

Might I suggest adding this to GR's QoL thread. It sounds like just the kind of minor change they were looking for.

Putting my programmer head on, I can't see an obvious reason why it would be hard to do since that display pops up on other powers displays. Of course, that could be the reason, focus would shift to the pop-up window making it harder to handle the click for slot/power selection.

One other thing: is this information not available from the detailed power info displays?

Can you explain why you want to?
Not saying you shouldn't just wondering why. It's not like you can change anything.

Well, Atlas Park station seems to have rather a lot, I think I counted four.

Frankly, though, it doesn't bother me. It's kind of nice in an odd way. It's something a bit dynamic in an otherwise static environment.

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How do you afford the components for these "few accuracy IOs"?

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Been looking at my 'just into the 20s' Scrapper today and I notice about half her attack slots are 15 or 20 IOs. I think, without looking, that the same can be said for my other toon that's level 21.

How did I afford the horrible cost of these IOs? Well, I didn't go staright to the CH and sell every last bit of Salvage I got for starters. In fact, if I've bought one bit of salvage on either of them, I'm surprised. If I can't make it from drops, I just don't get it, but I have enough that every attack on that Scrapper has an Accuracy IO in it and most of them have at least one Damage IO. Both have one set IO in one attack (usually because it was better than a TO when it was slotted). I barely see the point of slotting set IOs before level 50.

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It's up to us to tell the devolepers which ideas we think are worth them spending time on, and which are not.

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Nope. That's not in the description either.

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It may not be our 'job', but it is our right. If someone proposes an idea which we think isn't worth their time (and I'm not saying this is one) then we have the right to state that since otherwise how are the devs going to know that some players would prefer something else.

Kind of an irrelevent discussion having decided that your idea, with gameplay functionality, would be good for one of the existing Hazard Zones. PRAF was just complaining that entirely cosmetic changes of that kind aren't worth it, I think.

Halloween is a one off, not a continuous thing.

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You seem to have a fixation about it being in a city zone or a hazard zone. I don't really care or mind, and to have it in hazard zones only is perfectly fine.

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Well, I may have misinterpreted the following from one of your earlier posts.

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What I'd like to see is something better than a "Hazard Zone". It seems to me that these are intended as old school farming areas which repop periodically to keep players busy.

I think we expect more from our zones nowadays, and that one wau of doing this could be by dynamically changing the land as well as/instead of the mob spawns/behaviour.

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I took that to mine that a Hazard Zone was not a good enough target for your idea. My apologies if that is not the case.

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Seems like levelling in the 35-40 range is just as awesomely boring, tedious, and slow as it ever was, mind you.

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But that's where most of their effort has been directed recently - the RWZ and the Midnighters/Cimerora give you plenty of things to do at 35.

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Yeah, but those sodding legionaries are a PAIN! Especially the ruddy surgeons!

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First rule of heroism - attack the medical personnel first

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Yep. And anyone wishing to add anything more constructive to this thread should hurry. I expect it to be locked before I finish typing this reply.

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Seems like levelling in the 35-40 range is just as awesomely boring, tedious, and slow as it ever was, mind you.

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But that's where most of their effort has been directed recently - the RWZ and the Midnighters/Cimerora give you plenty of things to do at 35.

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Interesting point. Equally interesting that my character in that range has been directed to neither. (And Cimerora doesn't count, it's got, what, a TF, a small arc and some repeatables?)

Just lock it, GR. Please.

Yes, you deleted it as I was replying to it. And your new reply is as condescending as any I have seen on these boards.

I still want to see this list of yours. I am not sniping at you to make a name for myself. I have no need to make a name for myself. I would like you to save me the effort of going through all your posts to find all these predictions you have made that have come true. As you said about Neko, I can't quite bring myself to dredge through all your posts to find the gems. That much vitriol will turn an off day even worse.

So, please, put up or shut up, as the saying goes.

No one ever gets tired of "Statesman is a d***" jokes.

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I always thought that EBs were not meant to be soloable.

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Had to stick in my 2 Inf on this...

EBs are meant to be soloable by the right character, AVs are meant to be unsoloable. In practice, my Scrapper can solo EBs without much trouble (aside from one or two, Venessa da Vore being a case in point), and some AT/set combinations can solo some AVs.

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And I, too, had to resign to use inspirations to beat them.

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I must have missed something here, but I was never aware the soloing things required that you did not use Insps. There was me thinking that it meant, you know, not having team mates.

Perhaps people are having trouble with getting killed a lot because they think Insps are 'cheating' or something.

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Practical objection: It would occupy developers who could otherwise be working on something that would add to gameplay rather than being purely cosmetc.

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Fair, but then I can't entirely complain about it since I'm a roleplayer and would like to see changes made which do things other than give direct gameplay results. To be really fair, if we were to apply that as a practical objection there would be no more new emotes, and no more new costume pieces. As such, I don't see that as a practical objection, more an aesthetic objection.