Ravenswing

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So, it's a bug?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. When you get into the range where your client loads the character, they'll appear for a moment before the server tells you they're stealthed.

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Thanks, Max. It's nice to know someone is honest.

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I don't understand how Z or RW can be called carebears either

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Dang it, Bright, how am I going to have a decent slanging match if you go around being reasonable.

It's fair. I don't mind a bit of PvP among friends, I just dislike PKers.

Death? This was killed, burried, dug up, reburried in soft peat, sold for fuel, burned and returned as a carbon deposit in ancient shale.

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The chances of you managing to find a Stalker using the technique you describe without +Perc is astronomically small. Hide has an enormous +Stealth bonus which makes the Stalker invisible when standing right beside you. You must have +Perc for your technique to work.

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You dont need perception at all =] I perform this solo just like many other people and is easy to do it.Just need rely on stalker feeling secure and safe.You can come if you want in RV and show u how i do it.All you need is an AoE power and some practise. I am @Tainted Greek send me a tell if you are in game and i ll show you how i do it.

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So, it's a bug? Hide should stop you seeing them at all, but it doesn't work properly, so you get to see them for a brief second as you jump in and out of range. That about right? I mean, IIRC, Hide's stealth radius is massively over your perception radius. They should be impossible to spot without +Perc.

Then I need to slot up my one and only PBAoE with a load of +ACC so I can guarantee hitting him (what with Hide's 40% AoE Defense, last I looked), and probably a load of -Recharge so I can do it often. So, I've turned a useful PvE AoE into a useless one just to catch Stalkers.

Oh, and carrying BFs seems a good move since that cuts Placate (and that was a nice tip someone else gave, btw, I didn't know that).

So, you have a difficult to learn technique which basically relies on a fault in the stealth mechanisms. You have an example of a power having to be made useless for PvE to make it function in PvP. Oh, and if you get your technique wrong and the Stalker sees you coming, you're going to get a sword (or whatever) stuffed up your pants when you go past.

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I don't know if it's been suggested, but how about monster-play as an option? So you can't level the character you control at all, but you do get to fight against the players?

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Unless it's picked up in LotRO, this hasn't worked there so I don't see why it would work in CoX.

You would need to start as a Boss or Lieutenant, I think. Otherwise you really are, literally, just fodder. I also doubt that people would want to play a Skull, where as playing an Uruk has a lot more appeal.

Mind you, maybe if you could have players running entire squads of mobs...

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I really have no interest of listening to the carebears

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I'd like to propose a new law, similar to that one about Nazis and thread length. It shall be known as the Happy Bear Law:

As the length of any thread discussing PvP increases, the probability that none PvPers will be likened to Carebears tends to equal 1.

Now, bare in mind that my post was one in response to one of yours where you told me I was wrong regarding the needed for +Perc bonuses to guard against Stalkers.

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As far as first strike goes.99% of stalkers feel safe.Thats their biggest weakness.They stand and observe the preys waiting for opportunity.And this is perfect opportunity to catch them.What you need to do is jump high and start moving around.There is a distance within which there is a stealth check.You can see the stalker for a few split seconds and then he vanishes.Playing in and out with movement with this stealth check allows you to keep track of the stalker.Its hard,its not easy takes a lot of practise.Once you nail it tho you can start using auras and PBAoE's to unhide them.I have lost count by now the amount of stalkers i have one shotted with inferno while they are hidden.

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The chances of you managing to find a Stalker using the technique you describe without +Perc is astronomically small. Hide has an enormous +Stealth bonus which makes the Stalker invisible when standing right beside you. You must have +Perc for your technique to work.

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As far a builds go biggest thing that someone can do to increase his chances against stalkers and without spending a dime is get all the +hp accolades. The more hp the less easy you die and the more time u get to react.If you manage to bring your hp high enough to not die from the first 2 hits its basically easy from then on.

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I have all of them, thanks, on my main anyway. He hasn't been killed by a Stalker in quite a while, even if he stands still.


(Post took a while due to lengthy phone call in the middle. )

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A small minority of the PvP community, not all of the PvP community.

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A small, but very vocal minority. It seems to be the majority opinion of PvPers in this thread, for example.

L2P means "Learn to Play".

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And while your at it, try to change your negative anti-pvp comments to constructive positive "what i'd like to see change in pvp to make it more fun to play" comments

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You do realise that, for some people, no change to PvP is ever going to make it enjoyable?

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Yes. Fair enough. But anyone that is new to PvP has to go through the same learning curve everyone else that PvPs has had to go through. There is no point saying this, that and the other in regards to new players to support your claims because the same can be said for those new players that have to go through the PvE side. I've say it before, and I'll say it again, Learn and Adapt.

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And its this kind of attitude that puts new players off from PvPing, or in any case from playing the game altogether. All they are going to think now after reading that is 'why bother?'

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Frankly, they can read it here or go into the zone and get assassinated... often while moving. Either way they might as well not bother since the reply comes from the PvP community "L2P n00b."

I'm still waiting for TG to tell me about those techniques for getting the drop on a Stalker without seeing him first.

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There is a bunch of techniques to even land the first strike on stalkers yourself.

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Examples. Tell us what they are. You might even get a few people actually trying them so there'll be more people in the PvP Zones.

Come on, money where mouth is.

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In most PvP zones, they have these things called walls, which you will eventually hit if you just press move forward.

Not to mention it is very difficult to achieve anything meaningful, or have any fun, when all you are doing is moving forward.


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If you aint worked out how to turn while moving forward yet, you probably are better off giving pvp a miss.

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Which is exactly the arrogant im-better-than-you attitutue that also puts people off going into PvP zones.

It seems some PvPers don't want other people in PvP zones, they want to keep it as thier exclusive little leet-club.

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Not true for my part i want more in the zones what i dont want is people moaning in broadcast that its not fair that they have just been killed.

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No, fella, non-PvPers don't moan in broadcast. They pick up their toys, leave the zone and don't come back. PvPers who aren't very good moan about it in broadcast.


As to what I'd like to see done:

Well, if a solution could be found to having two builds, one for PvE and one for PvP, that would help. I worked out what I needed to turn my main into a PvP Scrapper and I absolutely hate the build.

A special gag mechanism that allowed someone to be totally silenced if enough people reported them for profanity and trash talk would be nice.

Players who didn't come out with statements like "if you can't work this outt hen you should go back to your nice, safe PvE" would be good.

I'm afraid I slightly disagree with the statements above. You see, while the game mechanics need changing to reduce some insta-kills, it's mostly the PvPers that put me off PvPing.

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Come on -- PvP has had plenty of time and attention given to it over the last couple of years. If it was going to take off, it would have done so already. It's a lame duck. It limps along, but empathically does not fly, and there's nothing to suggest it'll fly in the future.


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Did i miss the time spent on pvp over the last few years as from what i can see there has been no time spent on it

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There were several issues devoted almost entirely to it. Plus all the tweaks and changes to balance PvP and try to make the playing field even.

It's true, they haven't bothered much recently, but that's likely because they realised that they are spending a lot of time working on something for a tiny minority of their playerbase. (Bare in mind I'm from an equally small minority, roleplayers, and believe me when I say that PvP has received a lot more attention than roleplay.)

Anyway, to be exact:

Issue 4, about the only feature of which was the Arenas.
Issue 5, featured a bucket of 'balance adjustments' not all of which were PvP related, obviously.
Issue 6, CoV. However, aside from bases, the only effect this had hero-side was the introduction of the PvP Zones.
Issue 7, Recluse's Victory comes online.

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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.

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True but all that means is they will learn the hard way, everyone was a pvp newbie at some point you can only learn by taking part.

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Or just look at it like this:

"That guy was invisible and killed me in two hits before I could react. Screw this."

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My point proven that player is not cut out for pvp and should stick to pve

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Which is exactly why the PvP Zones are not full of players.

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A Stalker who can't work out how to target someone under those conditions needs to play something else.


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Well you get your stalker and AS me while im moving forward and im happy to make you right.

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I need to get ahead of you and wait for you to pass me. How hard is that?

Now, if you want to do some jumping, maybe some changing direction, then I'm going to have trouble, but I'm no spring chicken, I have lousy reflexes and I'm not that great at navigating with a keyboard.

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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.

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True but all that means is they will learn the hard way, everyone was a pvp newbie at some point you can only learn by taking part.

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See previous post concerning learning from unwinable situations. They just put people off, they don't induce learning.

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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.


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What on earth are you on about, it requires you to use the move forward button.

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A Stalker who can't work out how to target someone under those conditions needs to play something else.

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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.

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Don't forget stacked perception bonuses and an ability to handle alpha strikes without caving.

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Obviously you have a different perception of moving than cause AS wont fire under constant movement.Roll a stalker and try it.

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I have two. AS requires about 3 seconds to fire, but it initiates instantly and once queued it always hits. You just need to be standing beside your target, in melee range, for enough time to hit the fire button and you have them nailed. No matter how much they jump around, they'll get hit.

Either the Stalker in my case had staked out a patrol checkpoint, or they followed me and hit me while I stopped to click a checkpoint. You cannot, possibly, move all the time. As Zortel said, you have to stop to attack, even if only for a second. But a second is all that's needed.

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i rather have the dept be in affection of HP and energy then XP, makes leveling fun but shows that you have to avoid groups of enemy's when you're doing things solo.

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So, you prefer the WoW Rez Sickness mechanism, where you get to spend 10 minutes sitting around doing nothing because you can't actually fight in the state you're in?

Functionally, I prefer to be able to keep operating at full capacity, but gain experience slower. I think it's more in-keeping with the genre. Heroes are supposed to fight to the last breath and then come back for more.

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And how do villains survive uber blasters then? Once fully initiated a sniper attack will always hit.

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Why that's easy, you just keep moving all the time. As long as you can break line of sight once every few seconds to anywhere on the map (rather like you say can be done with Stalkers) then you should have no problems at all.

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This requeres skill to avoid. The stalker is even easier to avoid then the blaster. Just move around a lot. As AS can't initiate if youre on the move constantly.

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Yeah, that's another tactic I've heard which is, in fact, a load of rubbish.

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Sorry but you are wrong and its not rubbish.Constant movement prevents AS and there is only one way to workaround it and i cannot post it here cause is sort of a bug thing.

Constant movement = no AS thats a fact.

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So, basically, you're telling me that there is an exploit which gets around this, but I'm wrong? Well, duh!

I was constantly moving and I got hit. I have Stalkers, I know how AS works and it's nothing like as hard to use as a Blaster's Snipe.

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Stalkers aint hard to get around, just dont stand still, i dont know how many times thats been said.

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And it's still rubbish.

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This requeres skill to avoid. The stalker is even easier to avoid then the blaster. Just move around a lot. As AS can't initiate if youre on the move constantly.

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Yeah, that's another tactic I've heard which is, in fact, a load of rubbish.

The patrol mission I quoted above, I was stood still for a fraction of a second at each checkpoint and someone AS'd me. See, AS isn't like a Blaster's Snipe attack. If the Stalker can activate it, it goes off, no matter how far away the target gets. A Snipe needs line of sight from the moment it starts to the moment it fires. So moving around a lot actually works against a Blaster, but it's by no means a certain way to stop a Stalker hitting you.

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Actually placate is pretty easy to avoid. Hit stalker with DoT and placate does nada.

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Yeah, 'cos Stalkers have absolutely no defense against AoEs and the only DoT a katana Scrapper has is an AoE.

I always love the way that PvPers tend to come out with statements like "oh it's easy to combat tactic X, you just..." ignoring the fact that not everyone can actually do what they are talking about.

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Wow maybe you shouldnt pvp. Pretty harsh reaction there.

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I generally don't.

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I was speaking from experience, a lot of times placate does nothing for me.

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That would be because anyone who wants to actively PvP in the game sets themselves up with an AT and sets which are able to do as you say, DoT Stalkers reliably. However, if you don't primarily set out to play the game for PvP and have not picked one of the sets which can do this, then your tactic doesn't work.

Again, we're back to being unable to PvP without the 'right' build.

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Actually placate is pretty easy to avoid. Hit stalker with DoT and placate does nada.

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Yeah, 'cos Stalkers have absolutely no defense against AoEs and the only DoT a katana Scrapper has is an AoE.

I always love the way that PvPers tend to come out with statements like "oh it's easy to combat tactic X, you just..." ignoring the fact that not everyone can actually do what they are talking about.