Rangle M. Down

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Multiple granite forms to choose from would be nice, but otherwise the powerset is fine. I still use the defensive toggles on my stone tank for soloing, so they're not made obsolete by granite. IO sets also partially compensate for the granite penalties.

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I understand that in general you like Stone Armor the way it is and don't want to see any changes/nerfs. But if nothing else, would you still like to see multiple Granite forms, or Granite scaling to your toon size?

In all likely hood, you're correct in saying that this thread will go into the dustbin of the CoH Forums. Deservedly or not, I'll leave that up to others to discuss if they want to.

Personally, I think the ideas mentioned here take an interesting and different look at the power set. Do I realistically think such changes are viable? Nope, but that's ok. I'm quite sure if any changes to the set where made they would be at most minor tweaks. Considering there is no unanimous voice saying "yes, please change this" like the desire to change Granite armor's look from that of the Poo Man, it's doubtful such changes will come from this thread.

There you have it. Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

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I really like Jawbreaker, especially with the "crunch" sound effect. Also, when short toons use that power, it looks like they're smacking the enemy in the junk.

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ROFLMAO.....

My Stone/Stone tank is currently lvl 47 and I chose to go with Conserve Power for my lvl 41 power. It helps quite a bit during longer drawn out fights especially with hasten running, even though I do have end redux slotted all around. It was very nice having it last night going up against the Malta. Had a few sappers tag me before we could dispatch them and it made end recovery a non issue. But as always, YMMV.

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Do I think they're necessary? No, not really, but I think it makes for a good discussion and may bring out better ideas from the community at large.

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I would like to again mention one of the first points I made when opening this topic thread. This is about having a conversation to see if an armor set that I do like very much, can be made better. Some believe it can be, others not so much. It's nice to read some of the different thoughts and ideas that folks have thrown out. Even to the level of detail that Starsman went to.

I appreciate the feedback, even if at times I feel like I need to clean off the bottom of my shoe.

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Technically the sky doesn't have a color.

And in other news, the world isn't flat either.

/popcorn

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Shame on you for throwing in logic!

Post deleted by Moderator 08

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Well, I don't mind, but I guarantee you that someone in this game finds it epic and would curse you forever if it changed.

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I hear you. The truth of the matter is even if we asked for this cosmetic change, I'm not sure the dev's would find it worth while to implement. In the end it might just be a moot point.

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Not sure where you're getting your end cost numbers from. I'm currently seeing in the game endurance costs of 0.26/s un-enhanced for the armors with mudpots at 0.78/s.

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Toggles don't actually use endurance per second, they use endurance per pulse. Most damage auras pulse every 2 seconds therefore the end they cost per pulse is actually double of their endurance per second.

Personal shields, though, tend to pulse every half a second so their endurance cost will look as if it was half of the endurance per second the game tells you.

The numbers I quoted were from the actual endurance per cycle.

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Interesting. Learn something new everyday.

Agreed.

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2) Scaling Granite, not to say I haven't always wanted it...

I. Want. My. Smaller. Footprint.

Huge Bodies on Tank-type characters = Suck. There's a specific reason my Tanks are diminutive characters.

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Well, so far it seems that there hasn't been any great adverse reaction to my comments on Granite scaling to character size. I know it's a tiny cosmetic change, but is there anyone who is opposed to such a change?

Not sure where you're getting your end cost numbers from. I'm currently seeing in the game endurance costs of 0.26/s un-enhanced for the armors with mudpots at 0.78/s.

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Post Deleted by Moderator_08

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So much for a polite discourse on the stone armor set and the possible merits, or lacking thereof, to possible changes to it. I find it disappointing that you've chosen to basically call everyone who thinks changes to the set might be a good thing "idiots", especially considering this comment you made over in the Dom forums:

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It's the nature of the beast - nobody in this thread, by and large, is interested in discussing things with anyone, and nobody is really willing to grip the notion that someone else might be better informed or reasoned than themselves.

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Oh well. Back to the subject at hand. "Us idiots" have things to discuss. Chuckle.

(edited for clarity)

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Since I know I will not agree to your ideas, I'm not going to bother responding after this, it'd just be wasted effort.

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You're saying and believing that the Stone Armor set is fine the way it is, is as valid as anyone's opinion. This isn't about shoving changes down peoples throats, this is about finding ideas/ways to make the set better if there is a way. You're voice should be apart of that whether some or no changes are made.

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how about a street fighting set with chains and brass knuckles?

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Hey! Careful there. No thread jackin!

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Huge Bodies on Tank-type characters = Suck. There's a specific reason my Tanks are diminutive characters.

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I made a toon that was as tall and as large as you can make in the character creator. After taking him through the caves a few times I've made the rest of my toons average to short in height. Huge Bodies through the caves suck.

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The only change (and one I have suggested but it was ignored) would be to take the slow effect out of rooted and tack it on to granite. Also allow super speed to be run while you have rooted on but not when you have granite on.

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As someone else mentioned I doubt that most folks run rooted/granite at the same time. I use it as more of fall back when the mobs are making a dent in health. Having all the -run speed on Granite would be "ugly"....

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Probably add more Defense were it counts on Rock Armor, seeing as people still use it after 32. Increase stone skins numbers just a bit and allow Minerals to be ran on Granite. Everything else can pretty much be "dealt" with.

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I doubt we'd be able to run Minerals on Granite without there being a penalty of some sort as Minerals would close one of the major holes in Granites "armor".

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I find myself direly amused by people who make Stone Armor characters, get them to a high level range, then decide they don't want what they knew they were getting into.

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Again, this isn't about me getting my tank to a high level and deciding that I don't want what I've gotten myself into. This is in response to comments I've heard left and right in the boards. Like others I've gotten IO's to get around a bit of the -spd, -rchg in Granite etc. My question is centered around "is there a better way", and if so, what is it?

Parry certainly helps make my BS/Inv scrapper that much more survivable. Yeah. they'd have to do something about Parry before bringing broadsword to Tanks.

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As for Gauntlet, since you're in melee range, how would you know?

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True.

Taunt for tankers has a -range on it, usually causing everyone effected by it to close to near melee if not true melee range. I don't recall if gauntlet, the tanker inherant, also has that built in but I suspect it does.

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He means the tanker could aggro at range and then pick off the enemies as they are closing to melee distance from the taunt, hence meaning they have no chance to attack the tank.

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Which is generally a blaster tactic anyway. (minus the taunt of course)

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Granite should be comparable to a power like Unstoppable. Since Granite is a toggle that gives you the same survivability as an Inv tank, without the a 3 minute duration click power, having no 16 minutes cooldown and doesn't almost kill you when it runs out, there should be other penalties. I honestly think the current penalties are fine on Granite Armor.

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You have a point about Unstoppable. Although Granite Armor doesn't make you quite as durable as Unstoppable in some ways, the differences are fairly minor at that point.

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Additionally Granite is the only T9 power in a Tanker primary that you *have* to take to make the set really work (as we've become accustomed to it working).

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I took Tough and Weave... and I am rarely in Granite unless on an ITF or STF.

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But for survivability sake it sounds like you took Tough and Weave so you didn't have to put up with the negative aspects of Granite, until you needed it for an ITF or STF.

This isn't really about change for change's sake, although I'm sure you could read it as such. This thread is more about finding out if the complaints/comments that have been made about the Stone Armor set are in any way valid or reasonable. And if not, what would be reasonable if anything?

I started the thread with the thought that if the comments I'd heard were valid, this would be how I would try to implement those ideas. As I mentioned in the original post, the only thing that I would really like to see is the Granite form scale to character size.