Rangle M. Down
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
I just love the idea that "you should probably take and use Taunt" amounts to "RAAAR BE A TAUNTBOT TAUNT ONLY ALL THE TIME". What, your day gets completely spoiled if you work Taunt into your attack chain?
I'm more amused by the "You can't be a proper tank if you don't have TAUNT!!!!!"
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Quote:Originally Posted by Cainus
That cant be entirely correct, as we have temp powers that add a jetpack to the frame. The fact that the power manifests a physical object must mean they have some way of attaching them to the bodies. The obvious point would be where wings attach to the body, which does currently exist.
That maybe true, but I've got a "Muscled out" larger toon and when he uses the temp jet pack or jump pack they're both embedded into his back quite far. -
I don't have taunt on my Fire/Fire/Pyre and haven't noticed any issues with him holding aggro. I've been complimented by Fire/Fire blasters at how well I've kept them alive, which I found amusing. The rest of my tanks have taunt as I felt they needed the tool to help them. If I felt the Fire tank needed taunt he'd have it as well.
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Quote:I wasn't expecting an exact science but an overall indication of what you can expect to encounter in the game as a whole. I always try to include the YMMV disclaimer. Just because I like a build and how it plays doesn't necessarily fit anyone else's play style and vice-versa. I know some folks who won't do Carnie or Malta missions and others who avoid the KoA like the plague but love Freakshow. So I'll certainly skew my advice to their preferences.Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
It also sounds like it doesn't account for the fact that some enemies appear much more frequently than others. So while the information is very interesting and gives a general indication of how common certain damage types are v.s. other types, those numbers can't be relied upon as being very exact. That's the point I was trying to make earlier. I think you could use this data to give advice for builds, but you'd need a "your mileage may vary" disclaimer.
Even within the information given, it doesn't show how often you can expect attacks with two components like Lethal/Fire or Smashing/Fire. But you'll find a large percentage of attacks have either a lethal or smashing component. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule.
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I heard back from Werner and unfortunately he doesn't recall who he'd gotten the information from, but at the time he'd felt that they were a reliable enough source that he was comfortable using the break down given to him. I'll certainly poke my nose around more to see if I can find out who generated this information, and how they went about it. It'd be nice to have a "paper trail" to the original source instead of "some guy"...
Werner was also able to provide a further breakdown of percentages that he'd gotten from the same source.
Quote:Lethal 41.78%
Smashing 27.90%
Energy 12.12%
Fire 5.33%
Toxic 4.60%
Negative 4.33%
Psionic 2.04%
Cold 1.90%
If anyone recalls seeing this information before, or has an idea of who had generated the information, please point me in the right direction.
Thanks. -
FW. Since your information includes player and pet information on top of enemies it does skew the results as it doesn't isolate the enemies. Also, if I recall correctly player damage scalars are higher then enemy scalars and that would also add to skewing.
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Maybe he's just big into Conga Lines....
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Quote:Originally Posted by Finduilas
Found it! It was originally mentioned in a post by Sailboat in the Tanker forum, and he referenced this post:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...90&postcount=2
Unfortunately, Werner (the author of the post in the link above) doesn't say who compiled the numbers or how. Perhaps if he's still around a PM to him might produce some additional information.
Thanks for the link Finduilas. That's the post I recalled. I'll PM Werner and see if he recalls where he got that information from and if he could send me a link to it.
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Quote:Both the WSOP and Convertible examples mentioned were simplistic views of what I was talking about, but with both it's still about statistics and laws of average. The game is just a larger bag of numbers. I think you're "thousands" of mobs is a bit of an exaggeration. I suspect you would find somewhere in the range of 500 unique critters in the game, if not less. Certainly mob spawns generated will have variations into the 10's of thousands, but that is a different discussion.Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
The number of variables that exist in City of Heroes is of a far, far greater magnitude than the number of variables that exist in a game of poker. A poker deck contains exactly 52 cards. There are 4 suits of 13 cards each. Each suit has cards numbered from 2-10, plus a Jack, Queen, King, and Ace. Each card is unique and represented exactly once in the deck. Nothing the players do can change the makeup of the deck or alter which card will be dealt next. Based on that, it's a relatively simple mathematical calculation to determine the odds.
In City of Heroes, there are literally thousands of mobs. Which types of mobs a player faces depends on a large number of player decisions, including which contacts they speak to, which missions they choose, which origin they pick, who they team with, etc. Also, a certain degree of chance factors into it. Often, mobs do more than one type of damage. Which type of damage they use can be greatly affected by the tactics of the player fighting them. The number of choices and possibilities is staggering
We all know from experience that lethal/smashing is more common by far than toxic/psionic for the average player. But pinning it down to a reliable percentage, while theoretically possible, is, I think, beyond what any players are realistically capable of doing. I think the only way to get something like this would be for the Devs to datamine statistics based on what players actually encounter in real game play. And even then I'm not sure you'd be happy with that, because their data would be skewed by what you might consider aberrant and atypical play (people doing all Shivan missions in AE, to reference an earlier example).
The information I'm looking for has already been put together and has already been posted on the forums. I'm just looking for a link to that information. If you can provide that link, great. If not, no worries.
You still don't get my perspective and I don't believe there is anything I can do to alter that. So I'm going to stop trying to explain it. You may not understand how or why the information has any merit to anyone, but for some of us it does. Simple as that.
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Quote:Thanks Finduilas. I knew the information existed but just hadn't been able to find it.Originally Posted by Finduilas
Rangle, the info you're looking for was posted in the Tanker forum a few weeks/months ago. I don't remember by whom, but it was a thread I was also posting in. If I get a chance, I'll go through my old posts and see if I can find it; unfortunately, the thread name wouldn't help, it was one of the many "rate my build" post in that forum.
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Quote:If you've ever watch the World Series of Poker you'll see that they show the percentage of any given hand's "likely hood" of winning . It's all based on what is known of the full deck and what has already been dealt. Until that number goes to 100% there is still a chance the other player can win, but the ODDS are that the guy with the predominantly larger number is going to win. Doesn't always happen that way, but the percentages say he's more likely to win then the other guy.Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
If all the OP is looking for is purely academic data regarding how many attacks of each damage type exist in the game, then I'd have to say yes, it is possible for someone to provide an exact answer, providing they have enough time on their hands. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already done this, which may be what the OP remembers seeing before.
The problem is the way the OP originally presented his request:
Maybe that's not what he really meant, but it certainly sounds like he's asking for a prediction of what he can reasonably expect to actually encounter during game play. That isn't something anyone can answer with any degree of accuracy, and any attempt to do so would involve a lot of assumptions and guesswork--hence some of the responses. Again, maybe there was just a misunderstanding of what the OP was really asking for, but I had the same reaction when I first read it.
If I'm trying to give advice to others of how to best build their defenses I'd like to be able to tell them how often they're likely to run into any particular damage type and not be off base. It's "understood" that S/L is the predominant damage type in the game, followed buy E/N, then F/C and finally Psi/Toxic on average. What are those averages, what are the odds? -
You're still missing my point FW.
An example would be this. You're in a large lot of 5000 Mustang Convertibles. In one corner there are 500 Yellow ones in another corner there are 500 Green ones and the rest are Red. You could stand in the Yellow corner and with confidence tell me all the cars are predominately Yellow. Someone else could stand in the Green corner and say no, they're predominately Green. The truth is NEITHER of you would be correct. In that lot it's 80% Red cars, 10% Yellow, 10% Green. On average if you wandered through the parking lot enough times you'd find more Red cars.
I'm looking for the "on average", so please, walk away from the corner with all the "Yellow Convertibles".
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Quote:Positional soft-capping works for Shields and Super Reflexes as that's their primary focus and strength of the sets.Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
Basically, softcap your positional defense and you're good against 95% of attacks in the game.
It doesn't work as well for Fire, Dark, Ice, Elec, Stone, Inv, nor Willpower as it doesn't lend itself to their strengths which is Typed Defense. You can certainly build towards soft capping a single position with IO's, but you wouldn't be able to hit all 3, and doubtfully 2 of them either. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
*Cracks Knuckles*
Here we go.
Broad Sword
Spines
Regen
Energy Aura
The wish that they would replace Frost (Or whatever the tier 3 Cone is in the Ice Melee Set) with Ice Sword Circle like from the Dominator Ice Assault Set.
To have the option to change Rock Melee's tier 1 power animation with the Dominators Earth Assualt tier 1 power animation, but for close range.
Make Icicles Cold Damage instead of Lethal Damage for the Ice Armor set.
Make Ice Melee's tier 1 a single punch animation.
Increase the Energy Damage vs Smashing Damage ratio with the early tier attacks of the Energy Melee Tank set.
Change the gawd awefully bulky look of the Ice Armor set.
And last but certainly not least.
Make the tier 9 for Fire Armor useful.Seriously.
That is all.
Pst... one wish... not one wish list.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I understood your question perfectly. I'm telling you that you can't get an answer more accurate than "ish", which you already have. Even for the game as a whole. Someone who runs through every single story arc to level up is going to run into a different set of damage types compared to someone who just doest the arcs offered necessary to reach the next level, compared to someone who only uses radio missions, compared to someone who only uses the AE, compared to someone who just teams with their friends in the RWZ. There is simply no remotely accurate answer that you can get. Ever. From anyone. For any character. Period.
Uhm... but how close to the BIG picture in the game is my "ish". I could say that you're really looking at 50% of the game being s/l, 25% f/c, 10% e/n, and 5% psi/toxic but have absolutely NOTHING to back that up.
YES, I could spend the entire course of a character's life in the AE fighting Toxic Tarantulas or Carnies, heck why not throw Freakshow into that mix, but that doesn't represent the full picture of the game as A WHOLE....
You're way to busy trying to tell my how some folk may only see certain kinds of trees on their path to 50 while I'm trying to see what the whole forest is made up of.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Any such guide wouldn't be very accurate, since it's entirely dependant on what enemies you fight during your play through the game.
I have to admit my first thought to your comment was "no sh*t Sherlock!".... but then I realized you hadn't really understood my reasoning behind the question.
I spend a majority of my time in the tank forums where we spend a huge amount of time talking about how to best optimize defensive builds. Yes there will be specific enemies that do specific kinds of damage, but I'm not looking for a narrow defined focus. I'm not looking to see what to expect from Carnies, Arachnos, or even Shivans, which all skew the numbers in different directions. I'm looking for generalities. I.E. the game as a whole.
Usually when it comes down to typed defenses the general rule is that you want to focus on S/L first, then E/N, followed by F/C, and finishing with Psi/Toxic, or at least that's what is generally regarded as the correct order. I'd just like more information showing that the reasoning behind these suggestions is true, and how those percentages really fall.
I'm perfectly fine with near precise as I do understand that as factions are introduced or changed up a bit that percentages can change. I'd just like to know what those near precise numbers really are and if anyone has produced them recently.
And Ninus, every new Issue in the game brings change and guides need to be updated to reflect those changes, so how would that be anything different then what already occurs?
Hopefully this doesn't come across snarky, as it certainly isn't my intent. I'm just lookin for better info. -
Quote:Going Rogue may grant this wish.... but only if you've gone redside.Originally Posted by TBoxer
Oh, and sorry for being greedy but I thought of another wish. I wish that Tankers had access to the Mu Mastery and Soul Mastery ancillary pools from villainside. Me wants Electrifying Fences + Ball Lightning, and Darkest Night + Dark Obliteration.
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At one point I thought I recalled reading a breakdown of what percentage chance you'll be attacked by any particular damage type, with Smashing/Lethal being the predominant one.
If I recall correctly the percentages were something like s/l- 70%, e/nrg- 20%, f/c- 16%, psi/toxic- 4% ish.
But, I don't like the "ishness" to those numbers. I want to make sure that the numbers that I vaguely recall... and I do mean vaguely
, are the correct numbers so that I don't feel like I'm talking out of my posterior.
Can anyone point me to the correct information/guide? My search fu has been weak in finding such info. Thanks. -
AE might be a good choice for the timed mission. Of course depending on the vulnerabilities of the enemies the number could get skewed.
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Beyond the "number crunching" that happens here, if you're happy with the way your toon performs, that's really all that matters. Sometimes we can get carried away in the details.
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Quote:Help with what? I can suggest several names and costume sets.Originally Posted by unholy union
Can someone help me with an INVU/SS build please it would really help
If you're looking for the Invulnerability side.. go find CMA's guides to Invulnerability.
Beyond that, you need to be a little... well, a lot more specific before we can help.
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My Fire/Fire/Pyre does fine on the wall as well. Have yet to take my Stoner or Dark tank there yet. May have to do that soon, especially the Dark.
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Quote:Shield defense is quite easy to get to the defensive softcap of 45% to all three positions, so your current numbers come up a bit short of it's potential, especially by lvl 47. You really don't need to worry about the typed defense as the three positions will cover nearly all of the attacks out there.Originally Posted by StoneJaguar
I finished the build for my tank a few days ago and have been wondering what other players would think of the defense numbers I was able to come up with.
The tank is still only 47, so I have still can accumulate more defense via the rest of my enhancements. I only have normal IO sets in my build. Purple sets are too expensive and I dont play the high end game enough anymore to be patient enough for em to drop. And pvp IOs are out of the question.
With that said, I would like peoples' opinions on these defense numbers for my shield defense tank.
Ranged 38.82%
Melee 43.19%
AoE 46.63%
S/L is 11%
Fire/cold is 10%
Energy/NE is 8%
I also was able to have regen of 1.42%/sec
So what do yall think? Good numbers?
SJ
As was mentioned it would help if you posted a Mid's build of what you're currently running. -
Well, personally I'm not a fan of Focused Accuracy from the Energy Mastery set to begin with as I think it's endurance cost out weighs it's benefit.
There are a few things that concern me about your build:- I think you've under slotted for endurance on both Pendulum and Cleave.
- Hasten will help, but I would personally prefer more recharge on Shield Charge.
- Phalanx fighting would do you much better earlier in the build as it gives you a nice 5% bonus to defense with no one in range for absolutely no endurance cost what so ever.
- Although Grant cover doesn't add to your defenses, it does gives a nice defense de-buff resistance. Properly slotted you can get your total up to 100% defense de-buff. Enough recharge on things and you can get the occasional doubling to 200%+
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Severance Package: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 35
- (3) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 35
- (3) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 35
- (5) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (9) Impervium Armor - Resistance: Level 35
- (13) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 35
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
- (13) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (17) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (17) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 35
- (5) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 35
- (7) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 35
- (9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
- (19) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (19) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (23) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (37) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (43) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 35
- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (7) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 35
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 35
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30
- (11) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/Endurance: Level 30
- (11) Miracle - Heal/Endurance: Level 35
- (15) Miracle - Heal: Level 35
- (48) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration: Level 30
- (48) Miracle - Heal/Recharge: Level 35
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 35
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range: Level 35
- (15) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance: Level 35
- (46) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 35
- (A) Run Speed IO: Level 35
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 35
- (43) Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 35
- (46) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 35
- (48) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance: Level 35
- (A) Endurance Modification IO: Level 35
- (21) Endurance Modification IO: Level 35
- (21) Endurance Modification IO: Level 35
- (A) Taunt Duration IO: Level 35
- (23) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 35
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
- (25) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (25) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (27) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (27) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (A) Obliteration - Damage: Level 35
- (29) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 35
- (29) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (31) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (31) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (31) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 35
- (A) Eradication - Damage: Level 30
- (34) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
- (36) Eradication - Damage/Recharge: Level 30
- (36) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 30
- (36) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (46) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (A) Range IO: Level 35
- (37) Range IO: Level 35
- (37) Taunt Duration IO: Level 35
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff: Level 35
- (33) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 35
- (33) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance: Level 35
- (33) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance: Level 35
- (34) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 35
- (34) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 35
- (A) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 30
- (39) Multi Strike - Damage/Endurance: Level 30
- (39) Multi Strike - Damage/Recharge: Level 30
- (39) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 35
- (40) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (40) Multi Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (A) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
- (40) Multi Strike - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
- (42) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 35
- (42) Multi Strike - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (42) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 35
- (43) Multi Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35
- (A) Empty
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 35
- (45) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 35
- (45) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance: Level 35
- (45) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 35
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 35
- (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (50) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (50) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
Level 1: Brawl- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
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I think what Findulias is trying to say is you're missing the point that Ice's strength lies in it's typed defenses, not in it's positional defenses. Hence the "belt and suspenders" comment I'm sure.
For example: Ice armor, unslotted starts with 18% defense to Smashing/Lethal, Energy/Negative Energy and a miniscule 1% to fire/cold. Slotted with lvl 50 IO's you jump to 27.9% defense to s/l/e/n. But still has absolutely no defense against any positions. With the s/l/e/n you've already got a leg up.
So, for Ice Armor you'd be better served working on Smashing/Lethal first, then Energy/Negative Energy followed by Fire/Ice and then Psi/Toxic. The general rule behind this is that most of the damage done in the game has a Smashing/Lethal component, usually in the 70% range of all attacks. That's followed by Energy/Neg as the next common till you get to Fire/Cold and finally Psi/Toxic.
You are correct. Positional defense works for any AT, but Shield and Super Reflex's strengths are in their positional defenses not in typed defense, so with them you do want to up their positional defenses. Force Field's strength is in typed defenses so it works against it's strength to focus on Positional instead of Typed.
Hope that helps and makes sense at the same time.